wilco737
Posts: 7275
Joined: Sun Jun 20, 2004 12:21 am

Questions About Double Rule?

Thu Sep 03, 2009 9:45 am

Hello fellow photographers,

question about the double rule... This rule is sometimes difficult Big grin

I was approaching SEA airport last week and I took some pictures while we were on downwind and some picture while we were on final to 34C.

Will that be a double? I mean the motiv is different, but the same day, same airport?


Another question. If I have a nice cockpit shot from SEA departure at daylight and later an approach shot of LAX at night, but on the same flight, is that a double as well? Same day, same aircraft, but different airport?


Thanks for the help...  Smile

wilco737
 
oly720man
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Joined: Fri May 21, 2004 7:13 am

RE: Questions About Double Rule?

Thu Sep 03, 2009 9:59 am



Quoting WILCO737 (Thread starter):
Will that be a double? I mean the motiv is different, but the same day, same airport?

From the rules....

We only accept multiple cockpit shots if:
They clearly show different parts of the cockpit.
When the outside view is showing a different airport.
When one is taken in daylight and one taken at night.


So probably double for this one

But the SEA/LAX day/night.... depends on which bit of the cockpit in each by the looks of it.
wheat and dairy can screw up your brain
 
aussie18
Crew
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RE: Questions About Double Rule?

Thu Sep 03, 2009 10:00 am



Quoting WILCO737 (Thread starter):
Another question. If I have a nice cockpit shot from SEA departure at daylight and later an approach shot of LAX at night, but on the same flight, is that a double as well? Same day, same aircraft, but different airport?

Should be fine,pretty sure 2 inflight window view/cabin/cockpit shots can be accepted from same flight long as there is a noticable difference in the view/scenery and being 2 different airports that should be fine.

Quoting WILCO737 (Thread starter):
I was approaching SEA airport last week and I took some pictures while we were on downwind and some picture while we were on final to 34C.

Will that be a double? I mean the motiv is different, but the same day, same airport?

Probably better to post examples of the shots,Are they cockpit shots or showing overviews of the airport itself which are quite similar but taken from different angle/altitude?

Cheers Mark.
 
wilco737
Posts: 7275
Joined: Sun Jun 20, 2004 12:21 am

RE: Questions About Double Rule?

Thu Sep 03, 2009 10:06 am



Quoting Aussie18 (Reply 2):
Should be fine,pretty sure 2 inflight window view/cabin/cockpit shots can be accepted from same flight long as there is a noticable difference in the view/scenery and being 2 different airports that should be fine.

Ok, thanks. Sounds good. Looks like the one to LAX is too blurry anyway because of complete darkness.

Quoting Aussie18 (Reply 2):
Probably better to post examples of the shots,Are they cockpit shots or showing overviews of the airport itself which are quite similar but taken from different angle/altitude?

Being on downwind like here, but in SEA:


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © George Canciani



And the other one like this, but again in SEA:


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Wilco737



wilco737
 
Jalap
Posts: 355
Joined: Thu Oct 18, 2007 4:25 pm

RE: Questions About Double Rule?

Fri Sep 04, 2009 8:04 am



Quoting WILCO737 (Thread starter):
question about the double rule... This rule is sometimes difficult

This rule often is difficult indeed. In the rejection guide there is a mix of very hard parameters (like "2 window shots per flight") and soft parameters (like "if motive is sufficiently different"). Also, some hard parameters have a soft one attached to it while other hard ones don't.

e.g.: 2 window shots if motive sufficiently different. BUT 2 shots from same side of aircraft only acceptible if one during take off and other during landing (but what about taxiing or during ground handling?). No exception in the rules about different motive there even though in certain circumstances a dramatically different motive would be possible.

This makes uploading shots with a certain risk for double rejection a bit of a coinflip for us. And I guess also causes trouble and discussions for the screeners. I'm sure that a certain set can be rejected for double the one day while it would get through the other day.

I realise that the double rule is very much needed but you can't exaggerate with hard parameters here, since that would cause rejections on shots that are very much worth being in the database. But the current situation creates a bit too much uncertainty for the photographers. Considering that often real doubles are in the database (same shot by different photographers) I would argue that some more slack should be given to us when motive is sufficiently different. Increasing weight of motive and reducing weight of the hard parameters I think would make the double rule easier for interpretation and would do good to the variety in the database.

just my  twocents 

cheers,
jan
 
wilco737
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Joined: Sun Jun 20, 2004 12:21 am

RE: Questions About Double Rule?

Fri Sep 04, 2009 8:48 am



Quoting Jalap (Reply 4):
Increasing weight of motive and reducing weight of the hard parameters I think would make the double rule easier for interpretation and would do good to the variety in the database.

I wasn't questioning the double rule although I had double rejections which really annoyed me. I have a full frame shot of an MD11F and then a head on shot, I mean standing on a truck, being head on with the nose section of the MD11F and looking at her face to face. It is a double because I have the full fram shot already accepted... The motiv was something out of the ordinary but it is double. I mean how often do you stand at the height of the cockpit window of an MD11F? I only once... But this will be a shot which will never make it to the database due to the double rule...  Sad

This are the ones which I got accepted:


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Wilco737
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Wilco737



And this is the shot wihich got double:

Big version: Width: 682 Height: 1024 File size: 520kb


That's why I asked for the one here now in SEA to avoid such a double rejection.

Thanks.

wilco737
 
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ThierryD
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RE: Questions About Double Rule?

Fri Sep 04, 2009 9:41 am



Quoting WILCO737 (Reply 5):
And this is the shot wihich got double:

Hey, the copilot is missing! Now where would he be...?? Big grin

Thierry
"Go ahead...make my day"
 
wilco737
Posts: 7275
Joined: Sun Jun 20, 2004 12:21 am

RE: Questions About Double Rule?

Fri Sep 04, 2009 9:43 am



Quoting ThierryD (Reply 6):
Hey, the copilot is missing! Now where would he be...?? 

Sorry, don't know... He must be gone or in the galley Big grin

wilco737
 
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Moose135
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RE: Questions About Double Rule?

Fri Sep 04, 2009 7:38 pm



Quoting ThierryD (Reply 6):
Hey, the copilot is missing! Now where would he be...??

Looking for a ladder to clean the windscreen?  Big grin
Those are all great shots, Wilco! Sorry that last one isn't in the DB...
KC-135 - Passing gas and taking names!
 
wilco737
Posts: 7275
Joined: Sun Jun 20, 2004 12:21 am

RE: Questions About Double Rule?

Fri Sep 04, 2009 7:42 pm



Quoting Moose135 (Reply 8):
Looking for a ladder to clean the windscreen?  

Exactly Big grin

Quoting Moose135 (Reply 8):
Those are all great shots, Wilco! Sorry that last one isn't in the DB...

Many thanks. I appreciate that. Maybe in a couple of years when the double rule has changed Big grin

wilco737

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