JakTrax
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Giggle At Acceptance Ratio

Sat Sep 19, 2009 11:38 am

Hi all,

Now I know how the ratio works but why does it always seem to plummet with one or two rejections but only creep up slowly with multiple acceptances? 7 in this morning with only one rejection and it's gone up by a whole...

2%!

I'm sure there's something going on when we go to sleep!!!

 Big grin

Karl
 
gabik001
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RE: Giggle At Acceptance Ratio

Sat Sep 19, 2009 12:09 pm

But how many previous rejection you had? Acceptance ratio is based on last 50 screened uploads ... I always thinking why ratio is rising that slow but I forgot there were rejection before...
Regards , Gabriel
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belfordrocks
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RE: Giggle At Acceptance Ratio

Sat Sep 19, 2009 1:09 pm

Well it's simple maths.

For every new photo accepted/rejected, one gets 'pushed' out of your most recent 50. So if you're most recent 50 contained 40 acceptances and 10 rejections, and you get another 10 acceptances, then your ratio depends on where the acceptances and rejections are. For example, if the 10 rejections were the 10 earliest photos in the 50 most recent, then they would be pushed out, making a ratio of 100%. But if the 10 earliest results in the 50 were all acceptances, they would all get pushed out, so even if you replaced your earliest 10 acceptances with 10 new acceptances, your ratio would still stand at 80%.
 
JakTrax
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RE: Giggle At Acceptance Ratio

Sat Sep 19, 2009 1:30 pm

I know all about how the math works - but does anyone else notice that their ratio seems to plummet after one rejection but not go up after multiple acceptances?

Light-hearted thread guys - something to have a laugh at. I've been trying to hit a ratio of 90% for about two months now and every time I get to 88% I get a load of rejections! I'm sure someone doesn't like the idea of me on 90%.....  Silly

Karl
 
Psych
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RE: Giggle At Acceptance Ratio

Sat Sep 19, 2009 3:30 pm



Quoting JakTrax (Reply 3):
but does anyone else notice that their ratio seems to plummet after one rejection but not go up after multiple acceptances?

That's the maths for you Karl - it is a dead cert to happen that way. Rejections have an immediate hit on the ratio, but due to the system (well explained by Belfordrocks) acceptances only directly impact on the ratio at the time they are made if it just so happens that rejected photos are the ones dropping off the end of your latest 50.

For me this is a good example of the 'psychological' impact of the current system that I don't think is ideal - as discussed in my current thread. Whether there is a better system is the question for me..............

Paul
 
viv
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RE: Giggle At Acceptance Ratio

Sat Sep 19, 2009 3:36 pm



Quoting JakTrax (Reply 3):
I know all about how the math works - but does anyone else notice that their ratio seems to plummet after one rejection but not go up after multiple acceptances?

Yes, this is also my experience - although it may be largely subjective. As already explained, it depends on the bunching of acceptances and rejections, as well as on the overall ratio between the two.
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JakTrax
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RE: Giggle At Acceptance Ratio

Sat Sep 19, 2009 3:40 pm

It's a fix! I'm destined to stay where I am forever more!!! LOL!

 Angry

Karl
 
sovietjet
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RE: Giggle At Acceptance Ratio

Sat Sep 19, 2009 3:55 pm

It doesn't matter rejection or not. If a new rejection "pushes out" a rejection that was previously photo number 50 then the ratio doesn't decrease.
 
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ThierryD
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RE: Giggle At Acceptance Ratio

Sat Sep 19, 2009 5:00 pm



Quoting JakTrax (Reply 3):
Light-hearted thread guys - something to have a laugh at. I've been trying to hit a ratio of 90% for about two months now and every time I get to 88% I get a load of rejections! I'm sure someone doesn't like the idea of me on 90%....

Karl, try this: get an acceptance ratio of less than 50% and then upload some tremendously good shots that will eventually get accepted and you'll see how your AR plummets upwards!  Wink

Thierry
"Go ahead...make my day"
 
Silver1SWA
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RE: Giggle At Acceptance Ratio

Sat Sep 19, 2009 6:07 pm

Yeah, I was on a roll with something like a string of 18 accepted in a row and my acceptance ratio slowly creeped up 10 or 12%. Got one rejection and immediately lost 2%. Made me scratch my head a little. Got 3 more acceptances since and my ratio is still frozen where it was after that one rejection.
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
JakTrax
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RE: Giggle At Acceptance Ratio

Sat Sep 19, 2009 6:17 pm



Quoting Silver1SWA (Reply 9):
Got 3 more acceptances since and my ratio is still frozen where it was after that one rejection

It's a conspiracy!

Does make me laugh though - I know the system is in perfect working order but it's strange how it always seems to creep up slowly but zoom down so quickly!

Karl
 
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lgw340
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RE: Giggle At Acceptance Ratio

Sat Sep 19, 2009 8:06 pm

If you want an acceptance ratio to giggle at... here is mine... 18%. Lol
Its because when I was a bit younger I had a crappy 2mp camera with 4x DIGITAL zoom and I constantly attempted to upload awful pics which I truly believed were great! Now I'm 16 and on Nikon SLR equipment I'm slowly working on getting more pics accepted! On 12 pics now. Lol. My target is 30 by December! Wish me luck!  laughing 
Live life from the window seat...
 
JeffM
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RE: Giggle At Acceptance Ratio

Sun Sep 20, 2009 3:20 pm



Quoting Psych (Reply 4):
For me this is a good example of the 'psychological' impact of the current system that I don't think is ideal

LOL.... you know that can be corrected easily enough by not uploading. Does it really bother you that much when you get a rejection? Seriously?
 
Psych
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RE: Giggle At Acceptance Ratio

Sun Sep 20, 2009 4:05 pm



Quoting JeffM (Reply 12):
Does it really bother you that much when you get a rejection? Seriously?

Look at it this way Jeff - I am voicing the views of many who choose not to post on this issue.

Cheers.

Paul
 
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clickhappy
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RE: Giggle At Acceptance Ratio

Sun Sep 20, 2009 4:53 pm

I think what Jeff is saying is that - are there really people that are 'psychologically impacted' because they have a photo rejected?

Come on! If anyone is so wrapped up in their aviation photography that not getting a photo accepted on a website affects their well being - that person should seek some sort of help.

I mean - the whole concept just reeks of drama.
 
Psych
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RE: Giggle At Acceptance Ratio

Sun Sep 20, 2009 5:42 pm



Quoting Clickhappy (Reply 14):
are there really people that are 'psychologically impacted' because they have a photo rejected?

In short, yes. Particularly when they struggle to understand the reasons why. I am not on about whether that is right or wrong - but it 'is'.

Now I am not saying that systems should be changed just to deal with that; just that we should be aware of these things. I wouldn't say it reeks of drama, Royal, just evidence of human nature. People are different.

Paul
 
JeffM
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RE: Giggle At Acceptance Ratio

Sun Sep 20, 2009 6:40 pm



Quoting Clickhappy (Reply 14):
I think what Jeff is saying is that - are there really people that are 'psychologically impacted' because they have a photo rejected?

That is what I was implying.

Things that psychologically impact me would be like loosing a job, a loved one, a pet, a car wreck, having the house burn down, a good friend move away....etc., but having someone tell me to try again my airplane picture isn't exactly what they are looking for (regardless of the reason or lack of..) falls into the "oh well" category which is like checking your Power Ball numbers and finding out I'm not an instant millionaire again.

Royal's advice on possibly seeking help if a rejection really bothers you might have some real merit.
 
Jalap
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RE: Giggle At Acceptance Ratio

Mon Sep 21, 2009 7:25 am



Quoting JeffM (Reply 16):
Things that psychologically impact me would be like loosing a job, a loved one, a pet, a car wreck, having the house burn down, a good friend move away....etc., but having someone tell me to try again my airplane picture isn't exactly what they are looking for (regardless of the reason or lack of..) falls into the "oh well" category which is like checking your Power Ball numbers and finding out I'm not an instant millionaire again.

I don't believe you  Wink

If a rejection falls into that kind of "oh well" category than you have no incentive to try and improve yourself. Your Power Ball numbers are pure random, "oh well" is justified there. But getting a shot rejected means you need to improve certain skills and I think a mild curse after a rejection would be a much healthier reaction. One is allowed to be ambitious when it comes to acceptance ratio and even though this is just for fun, you have every right to be disappointed when you fail your ambitions.

If I play a game, I want to win - or at least play the best I can. If I fail doing that then I actually am "psychologically impacted", a series of events starts playing in my head. First a curse, then disappointment, then analysis and finally a plan to do better next time. And apart from those first 2 stages this actually is fun  Smile
 
Dehowie
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RE: Giggle At Acceptance Ratio

Mon Sep 21, 2009 8:36 am



Quoting Jalap (Reply 17):
But getting a shot rejected means you need to improve certain skills and I think a mild curse after a rejection would be a much healthier reaction.

Ahh i think by this you imply that a photo is deficient or lacking because a screener chooses to not tick the accept button.
Believe me there is way more to photography and aviation photography than wanting or needing the acceptance of the screeners here or anywhere for that matter.
Not having a photo here for whatever reason is not indicatie of the value either of the image or the person taking it.
Yes lots of people try and fail because of techincal deficiences but there are hundreds of images that never get seen here as they dont "fit the mold".
What one sceener likes another doesnt.
I've had shots bounced from here that have made money as they fit someone elses mold just not ANET's.
I used to get peeved because i wanted a particular image to be viewed in a particular way now i really dont care.
People take it far to personally..
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Jalap
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RE: Giggle At Acceptance Ratio

Mon Sep 21, 2009 9:58 am



Quoting Dehowie (Reply 18):

Quoting Jalap (Reply 17):
But getting a shot rejected means you need to improve certain skills and I think a mild curse after a rejection would be a much healthier reaction.

Ahh i think by this you imply that a photo is deficient or lacking because a screener chooses to not tick the accept button.

Hmm, yes because I was only referring to getting shots accepted here. The "certain skills" I was referring to are the ones needed to get a photo to "fit the mold".

So I do stand corrected, an "oh well" reaction would be justified for those who very well master the skills to get a shot accepted but aim for the outer edges of the "mold"  Smile
 
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ThierryD
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RE: Giggle At Acceptance Ratio

Mon Sep 21, 2009 11:05 am



Quoting Jalap (Reply 17):
If a rejection falls ... ...fun

This is a very good post and explains the "issue" quite well.

Getting pictures accepted on A.net can be seen as a game where the uploader is the player and the screeners are the referees.
Sometimes you win, sometimes you loose; sometimes you take it easy and then sometimes you argue with the referees.
And like every game one likes to play, one tries to become better and better and it's only natural that sometimes people get frustrated when they don't or if they have the feeling they don't become better.

All that of course has not the same psychological impact like loosing your job or a loved one but it has an impact after all, just like it would have an impact on you if the postman left you a soaked newspaper at your doorstep (only a random example  Wink).

Thierry
"Go ahead...make my day"
 
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dvincent
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RE: Giggle At Acceptance Ratio

Mon Sep 21, 2009 11:32 am

Hey, I finally busted through to 90% after this weekend. I've been stuck in the mid-80s for a long time.  Wink

I agree with Thierry in that it's like a game. I don't get too upset with rejects but sometimes I do get confused (in which case I email the screeners respectfully and I get a helpful reply) or I had a feeling about something in the image. Just like I feel a little disappointed when the Red Sox or Patriots lose, I do feel a little let down when I get a bunch of rejects in a row.

It's a lot like Top Chef on TV - the judges at judge's table can be harsh, but as one chef said, "It feels harsh because they are right."

At least they are most of the time, hence the appeal function.
From the Mind of Minolta
 
JeffM
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RE: Giggle At Acceptance Ratio

Mon Sep 21, 2009 9:37 pm



Quoting Jalap (Reply 17):
But getting a shot rejected means you need to improve certain skills

mmmm.....no. The criteria for acceptance here mean little to normal photographic aesthetics. They actually stifle real growth imo.
 
NIKV69
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RE: Giggle At Acceptance Ratio

Tue Sep 22, 2009 2:09 am



Quoting Clickhappy (Reply 14):
I think what Jeff is saying is that - are there really people that are 'psychologically impacted' because they have a photo rejected

Yes including one who is no longer with us!  biggrin 
Hey that guy with the private jet can bail us out! Why? HE CAN AFFORD IT!
 
strikeeagle
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RE: Giggle At Acceptance Ratio

Tue Sep 22, 2009 2:35 pm

HI ,
This post has generated some very interesting responses , so to add to the debate
lets look at something here that needs clarification , if one suffers with say a nerve related
illness it is very likely that rejections could cause problems for the person concerned but
this does not only affect these types of people. As i understand it the screening team often
receive abuse from photographers who feel that they have received a raw deal in-fact this is
highlighted in the recent announcement ( new screening positions ) note that there is a
mention that you must be able to cope with abusive people - now those abusive people
will not all have a mind related problem or be such that they need help from a mental health
team - this is not a drama its a real issue and it boils down to this - its about which side of
the fence one stands on one side the photographer the other side the screen er and the view
can be different depending on which side one stands , it will always be this way i suspect
and thus there is always the risk of confrontation because of the very nature of what is at
stake and a win or loose situation . Those people who can push negative results aside and
move on without it causing problems are in a good position no doubt but we are not all like
that people react to different situations in different ways , I certainly don't accept that it is
right to be rude or abusive to the team when things don't go right - if one feels they have had
a harsh decision go against them then they have the right to defend their corner in a polite
manner .

All the best
Anthony.
 
viv
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RE: Giggle At Acceptance Ratio

Tue Sep 22, 2009 3:52 pm



Quoting Jalap (Reply 17):
If a rejection falls into that kind of "oh well" category than you have no incentive to try and improve yourself.

Not so. I care little about rejections here, but constantly try to improve my photography - it's called being "inner-directed" or "self-motivating".

Gettting a rejection here does not necessarily mean that one "needs to improve certain skills". It may not be the right kind of shot for here but may, nevertheless, be a shot of great photographic merit. Anet acceptance criteria bear only a distant relationship to normally-accepted aesthetic and photographic standards.
Nikon D700, Nikkor 80-400, Fuji X Pro 1, Fujinon 35 f/1.4, Fujinon 18 f/2
 
Jalap
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RE: Giggle At Acceptance Ratio

Tue Sep 22, 2009 9:53 pm



Quoting Viv (Reply 25):
Gettting a rejection here does not necessarily mean that one "needs to improve certain skills". It may not be the right kind of shot for here but may, nevertheless, be a shot of great photographic merit. Anet acceptance criteria bear only a distant relationship to normally-accepted aesthetic and photographic standards.

Nevertheless, getting shots accepted here requires "certain skills". Rather a lot of them even. So my statement, made from the perspective of a rather poorly talented photographer who only went to airports to make perfect sideshots for his slide collection, will hold for probably the majority of plane spotters.
 
JakTrax
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RE: Giggle At Acceptance Ratio

Thu Sep 24, 2009 3:50 pm

Having read through recent posts (I've been away for a few days) and noticed that the thread has been channelled relevantly into a slightly different direction I thought I'd add my thoughts.

I consider myself a photographer but unlike many here I do exclusively aviation. It was aviation that bolstered my desire to become a photographer and although I do take the odd creative here and there (when on holiday for instance), other realms of photography don't particularly interest me.

I don't personally care about rejections - most of us here are more than competent enough to know what fits and what doesn't, and how to take that perfect A.net shot. However as others have said what A.net considers very mediocre other branches of photography would consider a masterpiece. I was getting a few rejections because I was trying to break the mould and introduce something a little different (i.e. what I thought was creative) to the database - I've now given up going down this road (different story for a different thread) as it's just too much bother. So I guess this means that I'm slightly concious about rejections but no matter what anyone says I think we all are. You wouldn't let your ratio plummet to 0% just because you were bored one Sunday afternoon and wanted a laugh.

I do know people who are quite disturbed by rejections but not to the point whereby they need professional help. Surely it's going to make them strive for a better image? By thinking, "Oh well..." that's kind of giving up; not having a desire to improve.

So there's a balance - some hate rejections and are impacted, and others just shrug it off. There is no right or wrong way to get images on here, and one's attitude to rejections doesn't dictate ability. Jeff pointed out earlier that an impact on him would be losing a pet - I've not kept animals for over 15 years now (and even then they tended to be small) but I really never got so attached that I got upset when one died. That's just the way it is. Each to his (or her) own.

Finally, aviation photography is competitive, being a male-dominated interest. Competition is human nature and as long as it doesn't go overboard it's healthy. I know two photographers here who are having a race to 100 images and they are quite concious about rejections at the moment. The further up the ladder you climb the less you care I think, and I think the excitement among the newer faces here is what generates much of the rejection 'impact'.

Karl

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