JakTrax
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What Frustrates You Most About 'plane Photography?

Wed Oct 14, 2009 6:09 am

Time for another discussion to liven things up around here.....

What things annoy you the most about our (mainly) wonderful hobby? Do you have any nemesis aircraft you just can't seem to get no matter how hard you try? Or do you find certain types difficult to photograph? Are there perhaps certain atmospheric conditions you detest?

Here are my little frsutrations...

CLOUD - Now don't get me wrong, it can add to the background, but just as the prize of the day approaches you can guarantee that gargantuan cloud is going to sit exactly where you don't want it! Fluffy cumulous and sometimes dark cumulo-nimbus can give images startling effects, and if it's fast-moving your sunny breaks are pretty much assured. My pet hate however is what I now commonly term top-sh*t - that hazy, high, slow-moving cirrus and alto-stratus that kinda ruins everything by watering down the sun for ages! Usually once it arrives it has the annoying habit of not going away! Then there's what I call the 'Expedia cloud' (that tiny, sole cloud in that expanse of blue from the advert), which is always the smallest - and normally only - cloud in the sky that's guaranteed to play havoc with your rare bird! In 2006 I was after the Mahan 320 at BHX and three weeks in a row the 'Expedia cloud' got me. Unbelievable! I gave up after third time unlucky and finally nailed the bugger at MAN - on a random evening visit when I wasn't even expecting it!

PEOPLE - Not everyone of course but those who turn up three hours later than everyone else then proceed to erect their step-ladders right in everyone's way! Also those who for some reason assume you don't know anything about aviation (or your local airport) and lecture you about what may or may not be coming in. Finally, those (mainly) at MAN around the perimeter who love dogs and think everyone else should too. Wet dogs and camera equipment don't mix! If they aren't trained or calm, keep 'em on a lead! I once had someone's mutt steal my sandwiches out of my bag! Having said that, there's one guy at MAN whose dog is pretty calm and is never bothersome.

777-300 & A340-600 - So you've got them framed as they're coming at you then when they start to get side-on you realise that you've either over or under-done the zoom because you still can't figure out exactly how bloody long they are! Most times easily-corrected but I sometimes pull out too far in anticipation then have to quickly zoom in again.

RUNWAY CHANGE - Luckily doesn't happen a lot at my local (MAN) but some places are terrible for it! BHX can be bad! Always seems to happen just as you've settled at a particular spot!

HEAT-HAZE - lots of bull surrounding the causes and distribution of heat-haze. Doesn't necessarily have to be hot or even warm - I've had it at MAN in November but have got away with it over distance at Malaga in August! DUB is a particularly bad place for it I've noticed.

So there are mine - let's have 'em.....

Karl

[Edited 2009-10-13 23:10:23]

[Edited 2009-10-13 23:11:31]
 
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cpd
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RE: What Frustrates You Most About 'plane Photography?

Wed Oct 14, 2009 6:31 am

Quoting JakTrax (Thread starter):
who turn up three hours later than everyone else then proceed to erect their step-ladders right in everyone's way!

Yes, but not the ladders that I encountered recently. We had the best position of the lot, and then a family turns up and puts their chairs in front of us, and has their (friendly) dog running around, so we have to concentrate on trying not to trip over the well-meaning dog, rather than focus on our images.

And later, he who decided to go in front of us, decides to give us people attitude. We were there first.

The worst thing is no access due to construction work. This leaves Sydney photography mainly limited to "The Beach" and maybe the International Terminal. This makes for boring photos. If you are a certain favoured someone, you can get to the balcony on the air-traffic-control tower, but the rest, too bad. Thankfully, it looks like this is going to change. Until the change happens, for anyone else, it's going through the hoops and hurdles of getting special access. It's possible - but takes lots of planning.

Photographers who insist on taking photographs from out-of-bounds areas. No explanation needed. These people make it bad for everyone, and we all lose out. I won't name and shame here, but the regulars will know which photos are taken from those areas.

Heat haze: Nothing you can do about it. And A340-600s seem to be bad for it.

Quoting JakTrax (Thread starter):
that hazy, high, slow-moving cirrus and alto-stratus that kinda ruins everything by watering down the sun for ages!

That's when you drop the shutter speed, use lowest ISO sensitivity and try to do some creative things. That said however, sometimes it's just impossible because there is no contrast, typical of reasonably bright conditions, with light grey cloud. In those conditions, a white plane blends against a sky and it's impossible to get any kind of good looking photo out of that.

[Edited 2009-10-13 23:40:51 by cpd]
 
mdwalkman
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RE: What Frustrates You Most About 'plane Photography?

Wed Oct 14, 2009 6:57 am

girlfriend/wife.

if you go to airport alone: She will blame you for not taking her out with you

however,

if you take her with you: She will never stay at airport for more than 2 hours
Please excuse my poor English.
 
INNflight
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RE: What Frustrates You Most About 'plane Photogra

Wed Oct 14, 2009 7:03 am

- People cutting holes in fences

- People swearing / shouting at airport workers because they "moved the stairs into the photo"

- People getting drunk near the airport perimeter and taking photos, cause life's a big party

- People who know it all

- People who've seen it all

- People who whine about other photographers photos because they are not what / how they like to see something, but don't even take pics themselves

---

To sum it up, people who are a pain to deal with, who give us all a baaaad name :-/

Must be the air in the valley here, but we've got tons of those.
As I said before, all about the people  Wink
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epten
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RE: What Frustrates You Most About 'plane Photography?

Wed Oct 14, 2009 7:46 am

local security who think that you surely gonna shoot-down planes and kill people and/or compromise national security with your camera.
 
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vishaljo
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RE: What Frustrates You Most About 'plane Photography?

Wed Oct 14, 2009 7:46 am

Heat-Haze & SHhhhhitty Haze are one of the biggest problems we have in India.

Just look at these 2 photos, in the first one is more or less how it is most of the times, u cant zoom beyond 120-170mm for the fear of getting a heat-hazed milky white bull-crap shot  banghead  - The second one is during a veerrry rare morning when due to the killer summer season approaching there were WARM winds blowing in from the sea which kinda helped with the Haze for a little while.

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Vishal Jolapara - Indian Aviation Photographers
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Vishal Jolapara - Indian Aviation Photographers



Besides all tht however, What Frustrates ME Most About 'Plane Photography' is the attitude of the authorities towards us, heck if they ever saw/caught us doing this we'd perhaps never be in a position to walk again & thats just beyond appalling as all this history & wonder which is aviation is lost without any visual memory.

There are hardly any photos from India pre-2007 when Me & Vivek Manvi got dSLR's.............
 
JakTrax
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RE: What Frustrates You Most About 'plane Photography?

Wed Oct 14, 2009 7:53 am

Get it all out Flo.....

Amazing you brought these up, 'cos I've got stories to correspond with every one of your points! Hopefully this'll develop into a good thread!

Quoting INNflight (Reply 3):
- People cutting holes in fences

Bet you sometimes wish someone had though when there's something ultra-rare on the other side...  Wink

I don't mind taking advantage if I wasn't the one who cut them.

Quoting INNflight (Reply 3):
- People swearing / shouting at airport workers because they "moved the stairs into the photo"



Never done this myself, and you're right - it's not on at all. I have however come across some very awkward and nasty airport workers. One at EMA once saw us photographing an unusual visitor and deliberately drove his van right in our way. We moved along to get out of his van's way and he laughed and again moved into our line-of-sight. We moved again - so did his van. Eventually I got frustrated and gave him an earful. He deserved it, under the circumstances.

I also remember being with a local photog at VIE when a guy in a van purposely parked in our way when the OS 777 was taxiing past. We knew he was being awkward because he too kept manouvering the van to block the view. He asked if we had cut the holes in the fence (despite apparently already knowing they'd been done ages ago and the fact that the edges were rusty!) - I called him something pretty offensive in English; and I hope he understood!

Quoting INNflight (Reply 3):
- People who know it all

We get lots of them at the Airport Hotel pub at the end of MAN's runway 23R. "You don't wanna fly on one of them Balkan Holidays things - they're Russian-built", I heard recently. I didn't know A320s were a Soviet design.....?

Then there was the guy who insisted that a Monarch A300 was an A310 - he wouldn't be told!

Quoting INNflight (Reply 3):
- People who've seen it all

Again, the pub's full of them. I remember a miserable old individual in there when I was about 14. We actually used to look up to him at one point but looking back he was a complete idiot!

Quoting INNflight (Reply 3):
- People who whine about other photographers photos because they are not what / how they like to see something, but don't even take pics themselves

Sounds like Johan, LOL!

Another hate of mine is power-hungry officials who have a habit of making up rules that don't actually exist. We get the odd little jobsworth at MAN (in the main officialdom there is fantastic) but I've learned to be polite but firm. They usually go away pretty quickly once they realise you're clued-up - often with tail between legs! You all know what I mean - "You can't stand there, it's private!". No it isn't, so mind your own business and sod off! Or the classic, "What do you think you're doing?!". With all due respect, what's it LOOK like I'm doing? How patronising! I'm doing exactly what it LOOKS like I'm doing, and it's perfectly legal here buddy!

Vent that frustration here guys and gals!

Karl
 
INNflight
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RE: What Frustrates You Most About 'plane Photography?

Wed Oct 14, 2009 8:28 am



Quoting JakTrax (Reply 6):
Bet you sometimes wish someone had though when there's something ultra-rare on the other side...

Actually not Karl, because most locals lurk along a small stepladder for that purpose, or shoot through the fence, which is perfectly fine at longer focal lengths.  Smile

Quoting JakTrax (Reply 6):
I have however come across some very awkward and nasty airport workers.

Well, not knowing your situation, if done on purpose I can see why one would be angry, but seriously, they do their job there. It is their job to move the airstairs to the aircraft asap because time is money. I just guess some photographers here are plain stupid.
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JakTrax
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RE: What Frustrates You Most About 'plane Photography?

Wed Oct 14, 2009 8:47 am



Quoting INNflight (Reply 7):
Well, not knowing your situation, if done on purpose I can see why one would be angry, but seriously, they do their job there. It is their job to move the airstairs to the aircraft asap because time is money. I just guess some photographers here are plain stupid.

Flo, moving steps into place is just one of those things - it's a necessity in an airport environment. The awkward guy at EMA was a security guy and derived pleasure from making it all but impossible for us to get good photo's. He didn't have to be there and was not in any way involved in preparing the aircraft for departure. In fact the aircraft was static and had engine covers on. He was just being an a**ehole!

Karl
 
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cpd
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RE: What Frustrates You Most About 'plane Photography?

Wed Oct 14, 2009 9:31 am

Quoting Vishaljo (Reply 5):
attitude of the authorities towards us

One of my colleagues is from India, and he asked if my photos were legal. To which I responded, of course they were. I knew what he was talking about, but I can't quite understand what the reasoning behind such bizarre regulations.

Obviously, as harmless photographers we are going to do something really bad - like blow up a plane, and that's why we walk around with attention grabbing big cameras and expensive lenses, because we want to be seen by everyone and get arrested, right...  

I thank god that Sydney (and Australia in general) hasn't got to that degree of paranoia.

[Edited 2009-10-14 03:03:44 by cpd]
 
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NZ107
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RE: What Frustrates You Most About 'plane Photography?

Wed Oct 14, 2009 9:56 am



Quoting Cpd (Reply 9):
I thank god that Sydney (and Australia in general) hasn't got to that degree of paranoia.

It'd be good to have the avsec from Sydney in Auckland.. A good spotting point is right next to the fence of a runway of an Air NZ MX carpark yet they still chase you out of there.. I'm scared of them quite frankly..

So security frustrates me here in Auckland. Other things that do - the fact that I can't really get any closer to the plane and I have to use the high end of my telephoto to get close enough pictures. The clouds in Auckland are really annoying too and we get too many white planes which just blend in with the sky. I want a gear upgrade! Too bad I chose an expensive hobby. I guess the weather could be added in too.. And glass no doubt.
It's all about the destination AND the journey.
 
JakTrax
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RE: What Frustrates You Most About 'plane Photography?

Wed Oct 14, 2009 10:12 am



Quoting NZ107 (Reply 10):
The clouds in Auckland are really annoying too and we get too many white planes which just blend in with the sky. I want a gear upgrade! Too bad I chose an expensive hobby. I guess the weather could be added in too.. And glass no doubt

I feel your pain - after all, NZ is basically the UK of the southern hemisphere! Crap weather year-round, etc.

Karl
 
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TupolevTu154
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RE: What Frustrates You Most About 'plane Photography?

Wed Oct 14, 2009 11:35 am

I have a paricular dislike for people watching what you're doing. As aviation photography is a bit of an odd hobby to the average member of the public they just stare at you, intrigued as to what you're doing. If I was in their position, i'd look too, mostly to see what gear they've got  Wink But when you get that feeling someone's watching you I can't help but feel a little uncomfortable.

Another case of this is when I need to use my 80-400. It's not a small, inconspicuous lens, you get that thing out and it draws attention immediately. I've lost count of how many people have commented "That's a big lens!" or "that's an impressive bit of kit". I don't like drawing attention to myself in this case but what can you do, it's not like you can hide it!
 
Luftfahrer
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RE: What Frustrates You Most About 'plane Photography?

Wed Oct 14, 2009 11:41 am

What frustrates me most about plane photography? The fact that I have not been able to get a shot accepted here so far  flamed 
'He resembled a pilot, which to a seaman is trustworthiness personified.' Joseph Conrad
 
LHRsunriser
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RE: What Frustrates You Most About 'plane Photography?

Wed Oct 14, 2009 12:09 pm

Watching an amazing sunset/sunrise when your not near an airport with your equipment!
Getting back into it
 
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cpd
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RE: What Frustrates You Most About 'plane Photography?

Wed Oct 14, 2009 12:22 pm

Quoting TupolevTu154 (Reply 12):
Another case of this is when I need to use my 80-400. It's not a small, inconspicuous lens, you get that thing out and it draws attention immediately. I've lost count of how many people have commented "That's a big lens!" or "that's an impressive bit of kit". I don't like drawing attention to myself in this case but what can you do, it's not like you can hide it!

LOL - you've got to try one of these one day:

Commonly mistaken for a rocket launcher...


You've never seen a commotion until you take that out of the bag and put it all together! It causes quite a big stir, trust me. Never mind the location, the reaction is always the same.

The camera and teleconverter are connected together (the teleconverter acting as a dust barrier, and to give more range), but the lens must be attached later - otherwise the whole lot is too large to fit in any normal size bag.   The whole lot is so heavy that the standard shoulder strap on the camera must be removed, and the lens' own strap used.

Fun and jokes aside, I did have one occasion where it attracted attention that I didn't want from a carload of young teenagers. I really didn't trust them at all. I packed up very quickly and went elsewhere. That's about the only really awkward moment I've had.

[Edited 2009-10-14 05:35:01 by cpd]
 
Samuel32
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RE: What Frustrates You Most About 'plane Photogra

Wed Oct 14, 2009 12:54 pm

Weather:
- Hazy Clouds that drain the contrast
- Fat Cumulus that get in the way. I always have my mind set that when the special will arrive there WILL be a fat cloud. With great light you can make ANYTHING look good.
- Heat Haze: Though I can often live with it knowing Winter brings better light and less haze.

People:
I'll admit I like holding conversations with others. Why not have a chat with other spotters. Sometimes I want to shoot myself when I see guys standing at the airport which act like no ones around. You can learn a lot from others. Though a lot of anti-social looking people turn out be kind.

- The "A.net are a bunch of nazis they never accept my stuff" people, it takes time, and trail and error experience. There are guys shooting with 350D's with normal glass which are over 1k shots in the database.
- The know it all with the HUGE camera bags which then pull out a small DSLR with a Kit lens...
- Bringing a (step)ladder resolves most of problems with other people that are in your way.
- People with untamed dogs, kids that starting messing with your gear. I just ask nicely the owner/parents to get them out of the way. (NICELY)
- People that empty their complete CF card into the database with boring 90* side only blue sky 737 shot. Get creative or wait for better light. Quality over Quantity. Offcourse there are airports where you have less options, so only include a few which you like.

MD-11:
My favourite aircraft. I run out of luck every single time. Mostly because of weather.

Technique:
- I zoom out too quik and miss all the close up action.

[Edited 2009-10-14 06:01:12]

[Edited 2009-10-14 06:02:29]
 
Flyingfox27
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RE: What Frustrates You Most About 'plane Photography?

Wed Oct 14, 2009 3:02 pm

For me probably runway changes as i cant drive and people honking and shouting "get a life" from their cars as they go by.

I like having people around me though, makes you feel more secure.

The Weather can be a bit of a pain but thats when to check the forecast before leaving, if you take a chance then expect it to become cloudy at times.
 
timdegroot
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RE: What Frustrates You Most About 'plane Photography?

Wed Oct 14, 2009 3:36 pm



Quoting JakTrax (Reply 8):

Flo, moving steps into place is just one of those things - it's a necessity in an airport environment. The awkward guy at EMA was a security guy and derived pleasure from making it all but impossible for us to get good photo's. He didn't have to be there and was not in any way involved in preparing the aircraft for departure. In fact the aircraft was static and had engine covers on. He was just being an a**ehole!

Indeed some airport workers are morons. Security guards here at AMS threw eaten apples at some spotters - just for some fun. Thankfully they were reported to their managers and action was taken.

Quoting Flyingfox27 (Reply 17):
For me probably runway changes as i cant drive and people honking and shouting "get a life" from their cars as they go by.

Yes very annoying

And at AMS especially, "aviation enthusiast" who go and watch airplanes twice a year and then proceed to litter, drive and park their cars where they are not supposed to and generally get in your way.

Tim
Alderman Exit
 
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dvincent
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RE: What Frustrates You Most About 'plane Photography?

Wed Oct 14, 2009 4:03 pm

I think the number one is people who litter. Don't leave your coffee cups or snack bags behind.
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ThierryD
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RE: What Frustrates You Most About 'plane Photography?

Wed Oct 14, 2009 4:48 pm

What frustrates me above all is the increasing security paranoia and the ever higher fences being built all around airports making it ever more complicated to get a decent photo of aircraft.
Just as if high fences would stop possible terrorist attacks...  Yeah sure

Thierry
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Lexy
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RE: What Frustrates You Most About 'plane Photography?

Wed Oct 14, 2009 5:29 pm



Quoting JakTrax (Thread starter):

I would have to agree with everything you posted, minus the "People" complaint. I have never had to deal with step ladders (yet), so the frustration in that hasn't got to me yet.

If I could add to the list though, I would like to add this to mine:

---The Lockheed L1011: This is an airplane that, up until this spring, I simply could NOT get a picture of it. No matter what I tried or what kind of sacrafice I offered up to the aviation gods above. LOL!!! Luckily I got my chance in ROW back in May to get up close to some and even go inside one. I remember stepping out of the avionics bay and into the cockpit and just taking a deep breath and having this overwhelming feeling of relief. You know the feeling. Like you need to cut the cheese and you can't, then when you do, it's like you became a new person all over again.
Nashville, Tennessee KBNA
 
JakTrax
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RE: What Frustrates You Most About 'plane Photography?

Wed Oct 14, 2009 5:40 pm



Quoting Flyingfox27 (Reply 17):
people honking and shouting "get a life" from their cars as they go by

It's actually them who need to get a life! Maybe they like golf. I hate it! Each to their own.

I work as a nightclub DJ which (apparently) is a pretty cool job to be in. It always shocks people when I tell them what I love to do in my spare time. "So hang on", they say, "You are like the most respected guy in the place by night, then you go and do that sad stuff in the day?!". In the end I manage to persuade them that it ain't so sad, and that secretly everyone's got a soft spot for aviation (which they have). Due to my job they tend to back off at that point!

I always think about this whenever some moron drives past hurling abuse. "I have a life, good friends, a good hobby, my own transport, my own home and a popular job you'd probably want -so what's the deal d**khead?".

People often behave in such a way when their own lives are pretty meaningless. Makes them feel better about themselves putting others down.
'Plane photography is a pretty big hobby right now and one of the fastest-growing. It's no longer made up entirely of sad, old guys in anoraks with nothing better to do. It's now full of diverse people from all walks of life, who feel good about actually being able to achieve something once in a while.

Karl
 
whisperjet
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RE: What Frustrates You Most About 'plane Photography?

Wed Oct 14, 2009 6:18 pm



Quoting INNflight (Reply 7):
Well, not knowing your situation, if done on purpose I can see why one would be angry, but seriously, they do their job there.

I have experienced a similar situation at a big German airport a while ago, a special plane arrived at night when it was impossible to take a picture. The local spotters who work on the ramp took some pictures shortly after sunrise and placed stairs right in front of the plane so that nobody else could take pictures from public spots. It was more than obvious that the rampers did not want anybody else to photograph the plane.

Concurence and grudge, imo the most frustrating things about aviation photography. It makes me angry to see how some people behave just to get a unique shot.

Beside I hate heat haze a lot. It's one of the most limiting factors for av. photography.

Stefan
Nobody is perfect - not even a perfect fool.
 
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vishaljo
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RE: What Frustrates You Most About 'plane Photography?

Wed Oct 14, 2009 6:39 pm



Quoting Lhrsunriser (Reply 14):
Watching an amazing sunset/sunrise when your not near an airport with your equipment!

Oh yes, i agree with that one.
Cant tell you how much i hate that powerless feeling.
 
dl767captain
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RE: What Frustrates You Most About 'plane Photography?

Wed Oct 14, 2009 6:58 pm

What frustrates me is when looking at my pictures on the camera they look good then when i get home i find out they are all crap! a waste of driving all the way to the airport and all the way back and nothing to show for it!
 
Lexy
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RE: What Frustrates You Most About 'plane Photography?

Wed Oct 14, 2009 7:48 pm



Quoting Whisperjet (Reply 23):
Concurence and grudge, imo the most frustrating things about aviation photography. It makes me angry to see how some people behave just to get a unique shot.

You know, I don't always believe that if a set of stairs are blocking a part of the aircraft that a picture can't be taken. I think, and this is no slight against ANet in any way, too many people use the ANet standards as their own standards. Sometimes, the ramp enviroment around the aircraft can enhance the whole picture. You should strive to develop your own "style" while trying to get ANet quality shots as well. It's more of a case by case situation for a photog, but just because it wouldn't get accepted here doesn't mean you can't document it for yourself you know.

But, I do agree with you as well about the obstructions and stuff. If it is something you really want, it is a bit disheartening when things are blocking it after you decided this would be something you would try to get on here to share with others. Perhaps I see both sides of the situation here.
Nashville, Tennessee KBNA
 
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TupolevTu154
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RE: What Frustrates You Most About 'plane Photography?

Wed Oct 14, 2009 8:16 pm



Quoting Lexy (Reply 26):

I found myself standing in front of a FedEx 727 a couple of weeks ago, debating whether to take some shots because of ground equipment, knowing they wouldn't be a.net worthy. Then I thought to myself "I have an operational 727 sitting in front of me, that is practically impossible in Europe!", so helped myself to some shots  Smile I'm glad I did now!
 
spencer
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RE: What Frustrates You Most About 'plane Photography?

Wed Oct 14, 2009 8:35 pm

People that litter and people that chimp and insist you've just got to see the best shot in the world that they've just taken....
Spence.
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whisperjet
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RE: What Frustrates You Most About 'plane Photography?

Wed Oct 14, 2009 8:39 pm



Quoting Lexy (Reply 26):
You know, I don't always believe that if a set of stairs are blocking a part of the aircraft that a picture can't be taken. I think, and this is no slight against ANet in any way, too many people use the ANet standards as their own standards.



It has nothing to do with a.net standards imo. There are certainly great shots where the ground equipment adds something to a photo, like that especially on nighthots when some ghost-like rampers can be seen with their quipment. Then it doesn't really matter what kind of aircraft it is. But when I have the chance to shoot something rare, a special plane or a special airline I want an unobstructed view because it's the plane itself what matters and not the situation.

Stefan
Nobody is perfect - not even a perfect fool.
 
FX772LRF
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RE: What Frustrates You Most About 'plane Photography?

Wed Oct 14, 2009 9:18 pm



Quoting Samuel32 (Reply 16):
The know it all with the HUGE camera bags which then pull out a small DSLR with a Kit lens

You'd probably think the same of me.  Silly I actually bought my huge bag so I could travel with my camera and laptop in one bag. It's a lot more convenient, especially not having two carryons.

Just my  twocents 

-Noah  wave 
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conoramoia
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RE: What Frustrates You Most About 'plane Photography?

Wed Oct 14, 2009 9:30 pm



Quoting TupolevTu154 (Reply 27):
I found myself standing in front of a FedEx 727 a couple of weeks ago, debating whether to take some shots because of ground equipment, knowing they wouldn't be a.net worthy. Then I thought to myself "I have an operational 727 sitting in front of me, that is practically impossible in Europe!", so helped myself to some shots Smile I'm glad I did now!

You should be!  Smile
But honestly if that had been me 3 months ago I wouldn't have taken that shot since a.net has sort of driven in the idea of a perfect picture.
But now I'm kind of like ''it's a nice plane so I'll take a photo and if it gets onto a.net it's a bonus'' and I think thats the way everyone should think otherwise we'd all be freaks,let's face it!

But thing I find most annoying is being alone! Since I live in a city of circa 100,000 people I'm the only one ever taking photos!
So you all don't know how lucky you guys are being able to shoot with friends and look back on it!

Great Thread.

Regards,


Conor
 
jetmatt777
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RE: What Frustrates You Most About 'plane Photography?

Wed Oct 14, 2009 10:25 pm

-Discovering a rare airplane is at the airport, and while driving to the airport you see it off in the distance rocketing into the sky.

-Sunny when you leave the house to go spotting, then by the time you get to the field, it is overcast. Funny, it has happened to me many times, and I live less than 5 miles from the airport.

-Seeing amazing lighting, but you are busy with something else and can't go to the airport.
Lighten up while you still can, don't even try to understand, just find a place to make your stand and take it easy
 
JakTrax
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RE: What Frustrates You Most About 'plane Photography?

Thu Oct 15, 2009 12:14 am



Quoting Samuel32 (Reply 16):
The know it all with the HUGE camera bags which then pull out a small DSLR with a Kit lens...

Reminds me of a young chap in the spring who turned up at MAN three hours after everybody else and decided to plonk himself and his huge Manfrotto tripod on top of a mound, right in front of everyone. He had a massive, expensive-looking camera case. The tripod was too big to fit in. So he sets the no-doubt costly tripod up (which takes him a month of Sundays!), then reaches inside his bag and pulls out various bits and pieces, including a lens cloth and what looked like some cleaning fluid. By this time everyone was awaiting the appearance of what had to be a 1Ds III or D3 - imagine everyone's surprise when this tiny compact came out and was attached to the tripod head! Everyone started giggling and my friend got his 70-300mm lens on the job to see what it was. It was a real crappy little Kodak!!!

Quoting Conoramoia (Reply 31):
I'm the only one ever taking photos!

At least you don't have to get out super-early to avoid fighting for your place at the crash-gate.....  Wink

Quoting Jetmatt777 (Reply 32):
Discovering a rare airplane is at the airport, and while driving to the airport you see it off in the distance rocketing into the sky.

Or you see it arriving early, sailing over the road as you drive under the approach! Inevitably if this happens the aircraft will go out in darkness!
 
MHO
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RE: What Frustrates You Most About 'plane Photography?

Thu Oct 15, 2009 1:52 am



Quoting Jaktrax (Reply 33):
Reminds me of a young chap in the spring who turned up at MAN three hours after everybody else and decided to plonk himself and his huge Manfrotto tripod on top of a mound, right in front of everyone. He had a massive, expensive-looking camera case. The tripod was too big to fit in. So he sets the no-doubt costly tripod up (which takes him a month of Sundays!), then reaches inside his bag and pulls out various bits and pieces, including a lens cloth and what looked like some cleaning fluid. By this time everyone was awaiting the appearance of what had to be a 1Ds III or D3 - imagine everyone's surprise when this tiny compact came out and was attached to the tripod head! Everyone started giggling and my friend got his 70-300mm lens on the job to see what it was. It was a real crappy little Kodak!!!

That would have been a great bit for a comedy show.
It's better to be a little behind than a big ass
 
jetmatt777
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RE: What Frustrates You Most About 'plane Photography?

Thu Oct 15, 2009 2:00 am



Quoting MHO (Reply 34):
That would have been a great bit for a comedy show.

LOL. Yes, it has SNL (Saturday Night Live) written all over it!
Lighten up while you still can, don't even try to understand, just find a place to make your stand and take it easy
 
dendrobatid
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RE: What Frustrates You Most About 'plane Photography?

Thu Oct 15, 2009 6:26 am



Quoting Jaktrax (Reply 33):
Everyone started giggling and my friend got his 70-300mm lens on the job to see what it was. It was a real crappy little Kodak!!!

Oh what a hoot, I bet you could not stop giggling about that.

I will add to the list, arrogance - enthusiasts who sneer, mock other enthusiasts who have lesser gear than their own.

That person was probably enjoying himself just as much as you !

Not so very long ago I can recall (with a friend) giving advice to someone at MAN who did not have a clue about digital, someone who soon afterwards moved onwards and upwards and now trumpets their advice here regularly. We did not giggle, we talked and we gave advice !

Mick Bajcar
 
conoramoia
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RE: What Frustrates You Most About 'plane Photography?

Thu Oct 15, 2009 6:37 am



Quoting Jetmatt777 (Reply 32):
-Discovering a rare airplane is at the airport, and while driving to the airport you see it off in the distance rocketing into the sky.

It's worse when you know you can't go back because your on holidays!
Usually happens to me!

Quoting Jaktrax (Reply 33):
At least you don't have to get out super-early to avoid fighting for your place at the crash-gate..... Wink

Good point!

Quoting Jaktrax (Reply 33):
By this time everyone was awaiting the appearance of what had to be a 1Ds III or D3 - imagine everyone's surprise when this tiny compact came out and was attached to the tripod head! Everyone started giggling and my friend got his 70-300mm lens on the job to see what it was. It was a real crappy little Kodak!!!

Nice!..... Wink


And forgot one thing,

When you fourget a battery or forget to charge them!!!



Regards,


Conor
 
JakTrax
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RE: What Frustrates You Most About 'plane Photography?

Thu Oct 15, 2009 6:43 am

And I still don't have a clue about digital; so what?

Guess that makes all us MAN guys a**eholes for giggling then? Must be northern humour. Nothing to do with lesser gear - it was the way in which everything pieced together and the fact that he nonchalantly stood on the mound blocking everyone else's field of view. If you're a MAN regular you'll know how frustrating this can be.

It was a comical moment, simple as that. If you'd have been there you perhaps could pass judgement.

I too remember an incident Mick where I accidently strayed out-of-line in Joe's field and you were very quick to point it out!
 
Jalap
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RE: What Frustrates You Most About 'plane Photography?

Thu Oct 15, 2009 7:24 am



Quoting ThierryD (Reply 20):
What frustrates me above all is the increasing security paranoia and the ever higher fences being built all around airports making it ever more complicated to get a decent photo of aircraft.

And even worse: double fences!

An illustration:


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Photo © Markus Adank



Not just the double fence, but also the type and colour here seem to be designed especially to annoy photographers! It worked on me because this was one of the contributing factors to me quitting photography.

Quoting Cpd (Reply 1):
Photographers who insist on taking photographs from out-of-bounds areas.

Indeed, there was a time in Brussels when we all got acces to the general aviation platform by just asking friendly to the security guards. We regularly had very interesting planes there and it was great to be able to make those ramp shots. The guards of course always insisted that we didn't go beyond the general aviation area but the next platform was a Sabena maintenance hangar and after that the large DHL area. While we all settled with the planes on the general aviation platform and maybe a teleshot in the direction of DHL there once were people who ignored the limits and went all the way to the other platforms. Of course complaints followed and the guards got instructions to not allow any photographers on the platform anymore. We never knew who those people were but they are responsable for taking away one of the most fun aspects of being a BRU resident spotter!


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Photo © J.Laporte
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Photo © J.Laporte


Tele to DHL and Pink Floyd's ride on general aviation.
 
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RE: What Frustrates You Most About 'plane Photography?

Thu Oct 15, 2009 7:43 am

Quoting Jalap (Reply 39):

Indeed, there was a time in Brussels when we all got acces to the general aviation platform by just asking friendly to the security guards

There is a location at Sydney airport, a grassy hill, looking onto runway 34L, and it's an ideal location for photographs of runway 34L in the morning.

However - the location is also closed and it is forbidden to be there. Which makes me more annoyed when I saw a recent photograph appear in the top 5 of last 24 hours that was taken from that very location.

That ruins it for everyone.

I wonder if the screeners should actually start rejecting new photos taken from that location, unless the photographer can show proof that they are in that area with permission of the authorities.

[Edited 2009-10-15 01:01:31 by cpd]
 
JakTrax
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RE: What Frustrates You Most About 'plane Photography?

Thu Oct 15, 2009 7:54 am

Theose who knowingly access restricted areas and those who drop litter I consider pretty much the same. The same contempt for the airport and its authorities is shown, as well a lack of consideration for enthusiasts following in their footsteps. I always take my litter home (as do my fellow MAN photog's) but it's amazing how much you see mounting each week. To be honest MAN is perhaps a funny one as much of the land surrounding it is actually green belt reserve - a bit like a mini national park. Members of the general public - including casual watchers - I think in the main are the most careless and inconsiderate ones. It ain't their hobby so why should they care? There are numerous signs stating that dogs need to be on leads however day in, day out dogs are left to run around freely and potentially interfere with expensive camera equipment. I have a dislike for dogs but I appreciate that they (and their owners) have as much right to be there as I have. Thing is, my daily duties at the perimeter don't interfere with their mutt-walking so their mutt-walking shouldn't have any impact on my photography. Unfortunately it does. Like I mentioned earlier, I have seen a dog go into my bag and help itself to my sandwiches. Dogs will do this, so it's up to the owners to exercise authority. I have seen dogs shake water off themselves around camera gear; and I've even seen one jump up and scratch an expensive lens (not mine luckily)!

The other nasty by-product of dog-walking is faeces; of which MAN's perimeter certainly has its fair share! Even when the dogs disappear the evidence of their visit remains - and it's really frustrating walking through long grass trying to dodge it, let alone actually stepping in it! But people don't care. The 'clean up after your dog' signs just get ignored.

Rant over.....

Karl
 
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RE: What Frustrates You Most About 'plane Photography?

Thu Oct 15, 2009 7:59 am

In the <1 year I've been doing aviation photography as a hobby, I've only one complaint so far, and this photo should make it clear:



  

(I don't know how frequently 26L is used for landings, but it's not often.)

[Edited 2009-10-15 01:14:02]
 
Stealthz
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RE: What Frustrates You Most About 'plane Photography?

Thu Oct 15, 2009 8:04 am

Not sure about the "experts", which are more frustrating the photography or aviation experts?

Had an "expert" at SYD, having just converted from film to EOS 5D, tell me(and others} that images from cameras such as the EOS 30D would no longer be acceptable at A.net(or the other place), was a bit of a concern as I was still using a 10D at the time!
Well not much of a concern as I had only shortly before had images accepted that were shot with a D30!!

Might dust off the old D30 and go shoot some uploadable images!!

Cheers
If your camera sends text messages, that could explain why your photos are rubbish!
 
JakTrax
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RE: What Frustrates You Most About 'plane Photography?

Thu Oct 15, 2009 8:17 am



Quoting StealthZ (Reply 43):
images from cameras such as the EOS 30D would no longer be acceptable at A.net

Hmmm.....

Did this come into force today? 'Cause my last acceptances with my trusty 30D were only yesterday.....  Yeah sure

Sometimes these experts just need something to talk about and someone to talk to - I remember (they're all coming back now...) a friendly old fella a few years back at MAN telling me I needed a brand-new Fuji compact like his instead of my 'clumsy, old-fashioned SLR'. I tried to explain that my 30D was in fact digital but I couldn't get a word in edgeways! I guess he felt a bit behind the times when, after 10 minutes of showing me how great his Fuji was , I finally showed him the preview screen on the back! He just burst out laughing and apologised. He couldn't believe that technology now allowed for SLR cameras to be digital. I ended up having a pint with him he was that fascinated!

Karl
 
Silver1SWA
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RE: What Frustrates You Most About 'plane Photography?

Thu Oct 15, 2009 9:06 am

What a great thread. Very entertaining responses so far.

To add my thoughts, these are the things that annoy me most.

#1 without a doubt, HEAT HAZE. Talk about a real buzz kill! You can shoot from a beautiful spot with the best possible light and have your day ruined real quick by heat haze. The absolute worse it when you cannot detect it until you get home and review your photos on the computer...DOH!   

One thing that has really gotten on my nerves... Since I mostly shoot from inside the fence I have to deal with the normal traffic of service vehicles and taxiing aircraft passing in view every few seconds. The following has happened to me a few times...I'm waiting for something special to arrive, for example a 747 which is very rare at SAN. As I see whatever I'm waiting for approach from one side, I look to my other side and see a taxiing aircraft heading my way. At SAN, there is one runway and one main taxiway that runs parallel to the runway meaning when I am standing on our ramp, a taxiing aircraft will pass between me and the runway. So anyway, I see this plane heading my way and can just tell that it's on pace to pass RIGHT IN FRONT of me at the very moment that my desired subject is going to be where I need it for the shot. Sure enough, that is often exactly what happens. It happened to me twice one day when I was waiting to get shots of a particular plane. As it landed my opportunity was killed when a plane taxied in front me of...I tried again when my desired subject was departing. Same thing happened!! I was so mad! lol

Something about this hobby that I dislike very much is the arrogance you often run into from some of the more well-known photographers. Like anything else, you run into a lot of egos in this hobby. I was especially disappointed once when I ran into someone I was familiar with through their contributions here. I tried to strike up conversation, let them know I enjoyed their work etc, but they turned out to be a total douche. Very disappointing. I'm not going to lie, I do sense some of that same arrogance from some people here in the forum. Since meeting other photogs is one of my favorite aspects of the hobby, running into arrogance like that bums me out.

Related to the above, some people will do whatever it takes to get a shot...doesn't matter who they have to step on, it seems it could be their own mother. They will do whatever it takes to get the shot. I hear about this problem a lot in sports photography. Guys always fighting over territory... I'm not that aggressive, especially in crowds. I try to make sure I don't ruin someone's day just so I can get a shot.

[Edited 2009-10-15 02:09:57]
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
JakTrax
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RE: What Frustrates You Most About 'plane Photography?

Thu Oct 15, 2009 10:03 am



Quoting Silver1SWA (Reply 45):
Something about this hobby that I dislike very much is the arrogance you often run into from some of the more well-known photographers

I met one at VIE once - he introduced himself in a rather fanfare fashion then proceeded to ignore me for the next 20 minutes, after which he left.

There's also a funny chap at an airport not too far from me (won't narrow it down) who seems to talk to the regular faces down there but not to 'outsiders'. He certainly has no time for me or my friends when I try and strike up a conversation.

Many airports have a 'click', and if you ain't regular enough to be a part of it you get excluded. Vital info is often withheld - a 'need-to-know' kind of attitude. Luckily my usual local (MAN) has a great photographer community in which info is shared equally and extensively. The reggie-chasers in certain areas have their own little 'clicks' and look at you funny if you venture off your patch 'onto their turf' but other than that it's quite harmonious.

I personally don't understand these 'clicks' - I will help anyone out if they're unfamiliar with 'my patch'.

Karl
 
spencer
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RE: What Frustrates You Most About 'plane Photography?

Thu Oct 15, 2009 10:21 am

The 15:00 rwy switch at LHR used to be a bit of a pain when the then exotic traffic (TAM for example), was due in. One time I missed an Ariana A300 because of the switch, you can imagine my joy...!!!!
Spence.
EOS1D4, 7D, 30D, 100-400/4.5-5.6 L IS USM, 70-200/2.8 L IS2 USM, 17-40 f4 L USM, 24-105 f4 L IS USM, 85 f1.8 USM
 
JakTrax
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RE: What Frustrates You Most About 'plane Photography?

Thu Oct 15, 2009 11:22 am



Quoting Spencer (Reply 47):
The 15:00 rwy switch at LHR used to be a bit of a pain when the then exotic traffic (TAM for example)

Always been lucky with that switch Spence (that is, had them on the 09s).....


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Photo © Karl Nixon
View Large View Medium
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Photo © Karl Nixon



 Big grin

I guess it'll catch me out someday but so far so good.....

Karl
 
EMA747
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RE: What Frustrates You Most About 'plane Photography?

Thu Oct 15, 2009 12:21 pm

FA's who won't even ask the captain if you can take a quite cockpit shot even though you have asked them nicely at the beginning or end of a flight. Happened to me a few times. Last time the FA was just giving me some bull s**t excuise as to why I couldn't go anywhere near the cockpit when the captain happened to be listening and told her it was up to him and would I like to come in. Ended up chatting for a good 10 minutes to him and the FO.

Quoting JakTrax (Reply 6):
Another hate of mine is power-hungry officials who have a habit of making up rules that don't actually exist. We get the odd little jobsworth at MAN (in the main officialdom there is fantastic) but I've learned to be polite but firm. They usually go away pretty quickly once they realise you're clued-up - often with tail between legs! You all know what I mean - "You can't stand there, it's private!". No it isn't, so mind your own business and sod off! Or the classic, "What do you think you're doing?!". With all due respect, what's it LOOK like I'm doing? How patronising! I'm doing exactly what it LOOKS like I'm doing, and it's perfectly legal here buddy!

Oh man yea. I got stopped by the police at EMA a couple of years ago for just walking around the carpark with my camera over my shoulder, I didn't even take one picture. They ended up getting me in the back of their van and asking me all sorts of crap. I didn't mind too much until they started asking what course I was on at uni. I mean what's that go to do with anything! I think they were just bored. They were friendly enough but it was all a pointless wase of time.



Evening traffic at EMA. It's good for the spotters as there is some really interesting things that come to EMA but it's BAD for photographers as it's all after dark. A few weeks in the summer the light is just about ok to get a few things but you just know the weather will be aweful at the time you want to go!


Andy S
Failing doesn’t make you a failure. Giving up and refusing to try again does!

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