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Sharktt
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For Those Who Think This Is A Fake...

Sat Nov 28, 2009 6:12 pm

Hello everyone

I've decided to create this topic, after I saw some rather unpleasant comments outside airliners, to my recent picture! I'm talking about this one:


http://www.airliners.net/photo/SATA-...onal/Airbus-A310-325-ET/1615692/L/

Well, let me start by saying that I was the lucky guy who was able to caught this with my camera!! I wasn't even going to photograph this one, but I went to the runway thinking that it was a Falcon 50... Also, I was quite lucky with the weather, that seamed to open when the aircraft was landing!

Now, to the technical stuff.... Some of you have been saying that this one was "photoshoped"... Well, the only thing that occurred to me when I saw that was "Wow...Jealous guys near..."
This was taken at F9, 1/500" and 400mm! The only photoshop it toke was to correct the horizon and to correct the colors, sharpening and nothing else...
I cannot explain how we can't see the surface controls in action, but I really think that it was because they where caught by surprise...

This is the sequence of the event:
http://img252.imageshack.us/img252/7084/a3101.jpg

I hope to be able to reply to any questions you might want to ask!

Best regards
Paulo Santos

[Edited 2009-11-28 10:26:18]
 
Spiderguy252
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RE: For Those Who Think This Is A Fake...

Sat Nov 28, 2009 6:22 pm

Hi Paulo,

The photo definitely does NOT look like a fake, and the entire slide just goes on to support that point. I hope that's answer enough for all the jealous nitpickers commenting on the picture.

Good luck with your future shots!
Vahroone
 
chris78cpr
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RE: For Those Who Think This Is A Fake...

Sat Nov 28, 2009 6:33 pm

I'd love to see that frame from the bottom left of the slide larger and edited for anet! Looks awesome!!
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Sharktt
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RE: For Those Who Think This Is A Fake...

Sat Nov 28, 2009 6:38 pm

Chris, are you talking about the 5th picture? If so, I've sent it today to A.net, so in about a week or so it should be online, if accepted!
Best regards
Paulo
 
chris78cpr
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RE: For Those Who Think This Is A Fake...

Sat Nov 28, 2009 6:42 pm

Yeah the 5th pic, the stress on the gear looks fantastic, can't wait to see it!
5D2/7D/1D2(soon to be a 1Dx) 17-40L/24-105L/70-200F2.8L/100-400L/24F1.4LII/50F1.2L/85F1.2LII
 
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vishaljo
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RE: For Those Who Think This Is A Fake...

Sat Nov 28, 2009 6:42 pm

Paulo, i love the photo & i almost jumped when i saw the thumbnail.
Who in the hell questioned it ?
Let them howl here if they have the guts.........

Btw, can you put-up a bigger version of photo # 5 from top/3rd from last, the post MLG looks under super-stress.

Keep you shots coming mate , its a pleasure viewing sceneries in the distance without any haze, something we can just dream of in this part of the world.
 
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alevik
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RE: For Those Who Think This Is A Fake...

Sat Nov 28, 2009 6:47 pm

Paulo, the vast majority know this is a real photo, but thanks for posting the sequence to show what happened with the landing.

It is sad to see the comments from the know-it-alls and poseurs rambling on about aileron deflections and rudder inputs. But, as my mom used to say, "it takes all kinds to make this world go around, and there's no sense wasting your time because in the end, you can't fix stupid".
Improvise, adapt, overcome.
 
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scbriml
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RE: For Those Who Think This Is A Fake...

Sat Nov 28, 2009 6:48 pm



Quoting Sharktt (Thread starter):

Good for you for posting this, but sad that you felt compelled to do so.

Never mind, just think of the hits!  thumbsup 
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
 
viv
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RE: For Those Who Think This Is A Fake...

Sat Nov 28, 2009 6:50 pm

A marvellous shot - you were in the right place at the right time.

CERTAINLY NOT A FAKE!
Nikon D700, Nikkor 80-400, Fuji X Pro 1, Fujinon 35 f/1.4, Fujinon 18 f/2
 
PlymSpotter
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RE: For Those Who Think This Is A Fake...

Sat Nov 28, 2009 6:58 pm

Paulo, those are amazing pictures. Did the A310 blow tyres, or do you know if the frame suffered any structural damage? The forces on the gear look pretty extreme - very nice capture!  yes   thumbsup 


Dan  Smile
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LH526
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RE: For Those Who Think This Is A Fake...

Sat Nov 28, 2009 7:06 pm

Excellent photos! Kudos!!!

This should be a "In your face!" to all "fake"screamers  Smile
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coninpa
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RE: For Those Who Think This Is A Fake...

Sat Nov 28, 2009 7:13 pm

Congrats again Paulo (my comment somewhere under your shot) for this superb photo! Even when pilots are well trained, when they face a sudden situation like wind shear, they simply do... what they can. So forget about comments regarding controls position, etc...

Don't bother! There will always be someone somewhere jealous enough to criticize your work in an unfair way. That's life!

Keep coming with your nice shots.

Patrick
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bmibaby737
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RE: For Those Who Think This Is A Fake...

Sat Nov 28, 2009 7:26 pm

Fantastic series of shots, would love to see 5 and 7 on the site...
 
Silver1SWA
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RE: For Those Who Think This Is A Fake...

Sat Nov 28, 2009 7:29 pm

People question a lot of photos and in the end, have no idea what they are talking about. Not once did the thought cross my mind that it might be fake. Great shot and excellent timing!

I had a shot questioned a lot. I would get emails from people saying things like, "you're good at photoshop". Luckily I had a lot of YouTube video of the same event available. Just politely thanked them, and then sent them a couple of links from YouTube. That shut them up. HA!

Quoting Sharktt (Reply 3):
Chris, are you talking about the 5th picture? If so, I've sent it today to A.net, so in about a week or so it should be online, if accepted!



Quoting Sharktt (Reply 3):
Yeah the 5th pic, the stress on the gear looks fantastic, can't wait to see it!

Watch out for the "Double" rejection...
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
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GrahamHill
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RE: For Those Who Think This Is A Fake...

Sat Nov 28, 2009 7:41 pm



Quoting Silver1SWA (Reply 13):
Not once did the thought cross my mind that it might be fake

Same here! And by just looking at the stress on the tyre, you can see it's real.

Congratulations Paulo!!! You can be damn proud of this amazing picture!!  champagne 
"A learned fool is more foolish than an ignorant one" - Moliere
 
Phoenix9
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RE: For Those Who Think This Is A Fake...

Sat Nov 28, 2009 7:45 pm



Quoting Sharktt (Thread starter):

Excellent shot Paulo! I have it as my wallpaper right now. The chances of getting this kind of shot are one in a million and you happened to be at the right spot at the right moment...so don't bother with some ignorant/jealous people saying its a fake. The sequence of images you posted its a nice slap in their face and shows what they know!

Quoting Silver1SWA (Reply 13):
Watch out for the "Double" rejection...

I would hope not....that would be an excellent addition to the database and I hope screeners consider the conditions and chances of getting such a shot.....I mean, how often do you really see the landing gear bent/stressed like that?
Life only makes sense when you look at it backwards.
 
Silver1SWA
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RE: For Those Who Think This Is A Fake...

Sat Nov 28, 2009 7:50 pm

Quoting Phoenix9 (Reply 15):
I would hope not....that would be an excellent addition to the database and I hope screeners consider the conditions and chances of getting such a shot.....I mean, how often do you really see the landing gear bent/stressed like that?

If you notice the thread about doubles, many of us feel the same about shots that have been rejected for double.

[Edited 2009-11-28 11:52:57]
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
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Sharktt
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RE: For Those Who Think This Is A Fake...

Sat Nov 28, 2009 7:54 pm

A million thanks for everyone's attention!! I'm really happy to see that those jealous ones are not among A.net members!
The only thing I've wanted to state is that the picture is real, and I really was kind of sad to read such strange things about my work...

But hey, life goes on, and I'm quite happy to see that you guys believe in the picture  Smile The link to this topic is also a form to show those guys that it's the real deal!

I'm sorry for the delayed reply, but as you can figure it out, I'm trying to reply to so many emails concerning this photograph.

My best wishes to you all!
Paulo Santos
 
NIKV69
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RE: For Those Who Think This Is A Fake...

Sat Nov 28, 2009 7:57 pm

Who cares what is said outside here? This thread is not necessary. Shot is easily genuine. Great work with one hell of a shot. Now why is there no video!
Hey that guy with the private jet can bail us out! Why? HE CAN AFFORD IT!
 
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chrisnh
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RE: For Those Who Think This Is A Fake...

Sat Nov 28, 2009 8:03 pm

Brilliant, brilliant photos. I'd never question them...at all.

Do you happen to know whether this plane was able to depart for its onward destination, or was it grounded so it could be inspected?
 
speedracer189
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RE: For Those Who Think This Is A Fake...

Sat Nov 28, 2009 8:04 pm

What website was this?
Need Elevates Those At the Internet Respective of Sources of Pics And Commentary that's Educational
 
codeshare
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RE: For Those Who Think This Is A Fake...

Sat Nov 28, 2009 8:17 pm

Paulo don't worry. The world is full of idiots and envious people who will do anything to make you feel bad.

Congratulations on a great photo I'm sure all of us would like to have in their collection.

KS/codeshare
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INNflight
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RE: For Those Who Think This Is A Fake...

Sat Nov 28, 2009 8:18 pm



Quoting Vishaljo (Reply 5):
Who in the hell questioned it ?
Let them howl here if they have the guts.........

Now, I am not saying I thought it is a fake, but over at pprune there's a whole bunch of long-time professional pilots who claimed it as fake, even an ex-A310 pilot.

While they don't know anything about photography, and I told them it's not a fake, they surely know about flying, and I also said that the lack of visible control deflections in the image uploaded yesterday does make one wonder.

Rare catch there, and I am mighty glad they managed to get it down safely, this may as well have resulted wayyyyyy worse.
Jet Visuals
 
Granite
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RE: For Those Who Think This Is A Fake...

Sat Nov 28, 2009 8:19 pm

Paulo

Fantastic images.......I am sure you were very happy with them....I would be!

Regards

Gary Watt - Granite
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IL76
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RE: For Those Who Think This Is A Fake...

Sat Nov 28, 2009 8:40 pm

Quoting INNflight (Reply 22):
the lack of visible control deflections in the image uploaded yesterday does make one wonder.

Just like the A300, I think the A310 has its ailerons behind the engine. Towards the wingtip, there are no controlling devices beyond the engine, except for (static) flaps. pics
You can see that on the pic in question, the aileron behind engine no 2 is pointing down, and behind engine no 1 you see nothing (= aileron up?). You can't see anything at the wing ends, because that's just not where the ailerons are located. Why there is so little rudder I don't know, but perhaps the gust really came as a surprise and there was no time to react (yet).

E

[Edited 2009-11-28 12:41:45]
 
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airkas1
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RE: For Those Who Think This Is A Fake...

Sat Nov 28, 2009 9:02 pm

I was planning on posting this in another thread, but this one will be better for it.

Paulo, it is a stunning image, without a doubt! When I saw thee photo last night my jaw dropped to the floor. I couldn't believe how close this was to an actual crash.
You were certainly at the right place at the right time and you nailed it perfeclty. I can give you nothingg but kudos for this!

What I wanted to say.. It is a long long time since I've seen a top of 24h photo get so many hits in the 24h timeframe!
Airliners.net Crew - Head Photo Screener
 
whisperjet
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RE: For Those Who Think This Is A Fake...

Sat Nov 28, 2009 9:22 pm

Hi Paulo,

great picture, I was speechless when I saw it first!
I guess you'll be approached by the media shortly (if you haven't been already). Be careful when seeling the picture, it is definitely worth a lot of money so make sure you make a good deal!

Stefan
Nobody is perfect - not even a perfect fool.
 
zbot69
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RE: For Those Who Think This Is A Fake...

Sat Nov 28, 2009 9:24 pm

Paulo,

Morons are a demographic inevitability. Just ignore that stuff. Life's too short and beautiful to waste your time with them. The skill it took to produce that picture equaled the skill to land the plane. Good job man!!!! Preparation meets Opportunity.
 
viv
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RE: For Those Who Think This Is A Fake...

Sat Nov 28, 2009 9:29 pm



Quoting Zbot69 (Reply 27):
The skill it took to produce that picture equaled the skill to land the plane.

Hardly!
Nikon D700, Nikkor 80-400, Fuji X Pro 1, Fujinon 35 f/1.4, Fujinon 18 f/2
 
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ThierryD
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RE: For Those Who Think This Is A Fake...

Sat Nov 28, 2009 9:40 pm



Quoting Viv (Reply 28):
Quoting Zbot69 (Reply 27):
The skill it took to produce that picture equaled the skill to land the plane.

Hardly!

Thanks Viv!  Wink

Thierry
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Sharktt
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RE: For Those Who Think This Is A Fake...

Sat Nov 28, 2009 9:47 pm

Hi guys

I don't really know if I can post the links here, but if I can't, please tell me that I will edit this post!
Here's two of the forums where people say it's fake:
- http://www.airlinepilotforums.com/cargo/46078-nice-landing.html
- http://www.expressjetpilots.com/the-pipe/showthread.php?t=34704

Another one is pprune, but INNflight already had mentioned it!

There's more, I'm sure, but it really doesn't mater... Those guys don't understand anything about photography, but all of them like to add their comment...Oh well!!

For those who asked, yes, the plane was flying after this, and I don't heard nothing about problems with the aircraft..

Best regards
Paulo
 
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GrahamHill
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RE: For Those Who Think This Is A Fake...

Sat Nov 28, 2009 10:35 pm



Quoting Sharktt (Reply 30):
There's more, I'm sure, but it really doesn't mater... Those guys don't understand anything about photography, but all of them like to add their comment...Oh well!!

How do we say again? "Ignorance can be cured, stupidity is forever"?

Looks like whatever you will try to do, say or demonstrate, you will always have piss-vinegars (as we call them in France Big grin) who would spend their time trying to prove you the contrary.

If you can shut them up by giving the evidence they want, then please do. Otherwise I would just not bother, and I would let it go.
"A learned fool is more foolish than an ignorant one" - Moliere
 
johnsiebert
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RE: For Those Who Think This Is A Fake...

Sat Nov 28, 2009 10:42 pm

EXECELLENT PICTURE, I can just repeat what others said this picture is definitely not a fake, and I never considered it to be one, I can't believe why people would think that! just a brilliant moment and every picture of the shown sequence looks fantastic I like the 5th and the 7th!!!

congrats!!
 
Lexy
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RE: For Those Who Think This Is A Fake...

Sat Nov 28, 2009 11:04 pm



Quoting Sharktt (Reply 3):
Chris, are you talking about the 5th picture? If so, I've sent it today to A.net, so in about a week or so it should be online, if accepted!
Best regards
Paulo

I hope it gets accepted!! Both of these shots, heck the whole set of photos, are some of the most amazing I have ever seen. You are one lucky man and your work is amazing!! My hat is off to you for your talents and your eye. Great work and I look forward to even more from you!!!

All the best!
Nashville, Tennessee KBNA
 
speedracer189
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RE: For Those Who Think This Is A Fake...

Sat Nov 28, 2009 11:31 pm



Quoting Sharktt (Reply 30):
Hi guys

I don't really know if I can post the links here, but if I can't, please tell me that I will edit this post!
Here's two of the forums where people say it's fake:
- http://www.airlinepilotforums.com/cargo/46078-nice-landing.html
- http://www.expressjetpilots.com/the-pipe/showthread.php?t=34704

Another one is pprune, but INNflight already had mentioned it!

You sound awful gun shy. Why don't you engage the people that you feel are wrong on those websites as opposed to crying about it here?
Need Elevates Those At the Internet Respective of Sources of Pics And Commentary that's Educational
 
Xpress690
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RE: For Those Who Think This Is A Fake...

Sat Nov 28, 2009 11:33 pm

..if go back to those links you will find that almost all of them are FlightSim pilots, not only they don´t know s***t about photography, but they don´t even know anything at all about planes..... so, don´t stress...!!!!
GREAT SHOT..... 's..... and yes, it will be in the books for a long time..Thanks Paulo

Regards to all of you

Paulo
Xpress - Lajes Vegas
 
Psych
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RE: For Those Who Think This Is A Fake...

Sat Nov 28, 2009 11:53 pm

Paulo.

The world is full of conspiracy theorists. You can be confident that the membership here who know anything about aviation and photography will not have been thinking about digital manipulation - much more likely about the importance of being in the right place at the right time (and, if we are honest, experiencing a touch of 'photographer envy' too  wink  ).

How close did that wingfence get to the tarmac?

Amazing to see how many views have been generated in such a short space of time.

All the best.

Paul
 
NIKV69
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RE: For Those Who Think This Is A Fake...

Sun Nov 29, 2009 12:00 am

I love the guy who says if you look at the right wing you see a reflection of a windwo from a house LOLOL. Actually a trained eye can tell that is the reflection of the engine. Also if it was a fake why would their be a house window on a runway? LOL. What a bunch of tools.
Hey that guy with the private jet can bail us out! Why? HE CAN AFFORD IT!
 
raedervision
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RE: For Those Who Think This Is A Fake...

Sun Nov 29, 2009 12:11 am

Paulo,
Nice job! I have had three of my photos accused of this now. If there are people who believe we didn't go to the moon there will surely be some who don't believe this. Don't worry about it. The people who matter know the truth. This is a great example why screeners should use a little judgement and let this double pass. Same pic, different information. Can't see any control deflection because the pilots are still asleep. Airbus may want to think about using larger sway bars on the suspension and the pilots may want to get some dual from some F1 drivers lol. Jim
 
MidEx216
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RE: For Those Who Think This Is A Fake...

Sun Nov 29, 2009 12:28 am

I just want to say, I think this shot you have here is amazing. I was just with my girlfriend last night, marveling at your photo and even pointing out to her things like the twisted right mains.
I'd agree that you should...somehow post some full-size edits of the other shots in the sequence.

I will admit though that one of the first things that popped into my mind was the known fake of an A32X striking it's wing and pieces breaking off, but I knew this one wasn't faked as such. It just looks a bit...unnatural.
 
Dehowie
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RE: For Those Who Think This Is A Fake...

Sun Nov 29, 2009 12:38 am



Quoting IL76 (Reply 24):
Just like the A300, I think the A310 has its ailerons behind the engine. Towards the wingtip, there are no controlling devices beyond the engine, except for (static) flaps. pics


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Luis Rosa



You can see the outboard aileron in this shot it has the static wicks attached...

The thing which has all the pilots scratching there heads is "WHAT WHERE THEY DOING??"!!!

I mean in the photo in question there is no opposite rudder input no aileron input to correct the rather unusual attitude they had entered.
I man its almost like they had frozen onthe controls and where just looking out the window...when the aircraft rolled so badly during the flare in be saying 99.9% of my fellow drivers would of gone around and the safety of the aircraft is SERIOUSLY compromised...SERIOUSLY.
Sorry but there was no real skill in this landing.
If it was a training flight with say a new FO then a go around should of been performed.
A great photo of how to not land a transport aircraft in a crosswind and also a perfect example of when self preservation should be taking over..
2EOS1DX,EF14.2.8LII,17TS,85/1.2,16-35L,24-70LII,24L,70-200F2.8LII,100-400,300/400/500/800L
 
NIKV69
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RE: For Those Who Think This Is A Fake...

Sun Nov 29, 2009 1:37 am



Quoting Dehowie (Reply 40):
I mean in the photo in question there is no opposite rudder input no aileron input to correct the rather unusual attitude they had entered.
I man its almost like they had frozen onthe controls and where just looking out the window...when the aircraft rolled so badly during the flare in be saying 99.9% of my fellow drivers would of gone around and the safety of the aircraft is SERIOUSLY compromised...SERIOUSLY.
Sorry but there was no real skill in this landing.
If it was a training flight with say a new FO then a go around should of been performed.
A great photo of how to not land a transport aircraft in a crosswind and also a perfect example of when self preservation should be taking over..

Doesn't Airbus prefer pilots use ailerons over rudder for correcting rolls?
Hey that guy with the private jet can bail us out! Why? HE CAN AFFORD IT!
 
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cpd
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RE: For Those Who Think This Is A Fake...

Sun Nov 29, 2009 2:00 am

It's an amazing photo by the photographer.

And I can't believe they didn't go around!  Wow!
 
Dehowie
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RE: For Those Who Think This Is A Fake...

Sun Nov 29, 2009 2:30 am



Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 41):
Doesn't Airbus prefer pilots use ailerons over rudder for correcting rolls?

As far as i know thats standard for all transport aircraft...well unless you work for AA that is..
In the shots though there isnt even any aileron deflection showing..or rudder...
Bizarre..
2EOS1DX,EF14.2.8LII,17TS,85/1.2,16-35L,24-70LII,24L,70-200F2.8LII,100-400,300/400/500/800L
 
mirrodie
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RE: For Those Who Think This Is A Fake...

Sun Nov 29, 2009 3:33 am



Quoting Lh526 (Reply 10):
"In your face!"

Queue that scene from Coming to America "IN DA FACE!!"

Wonderful capture Paulo!

Quoting Silver1SWA (Reply 13):
Not once did the thought cross my mind that it might be fake.

You know, its simply a reflection of their jealousy and inner disbelief. My first thought was "How was it ht pilot didnt go around and How is it that he was able to straighten out and land?! But having seen Kai Tek videos, we know what is possible.

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 18):
This thread is not necessary. Shot is easily genuine. Great work with one hell of a shot. Now why is there no video!

I would kill to see that video!

Quoting Speedracer189 (Reply 34):
Why don't you engage the people that you feel are wrong on those websites as opposed to crying about it here?

Why engage? Paulo explained it to his peers, us, which was totally nice but not needed. No need to engage overzealous pilots who will argue their craft. Paulo has boldly argued his own craft with perfect execution.
Forum moderator 2001-2010; He's a pedantic, pontificating, pretentious bastard, a belligerent old fart, a worthless st
 
IL76
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RE: For Those Who Think This Is A Fake...

Sun Nov 29, 2009 6:38 am



Quoting Dehowie (Reply 40):
You can see the outboard aileron in this shot it has the static wicks attached...

Hi Darran! Hmm, maybe I worded it wrong... By static I meant "not moving, fixed". Didn't know the word "wicks" before you mentioned it.  Smile So excuse me if I'm not making sense. Going slightly off-topic (sorry), but what I meant was: there is no set of outer ailerons on an A310-300. I just Googled for it...  Smile

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Cence jojo


So it's not strange that you don't see anything deflected on the wing-ends in Paulos photo.

Anyway, I'll stop the technical brabbeling now... (I'm certainly not an expert)

Fact is: Fantastic shot Paulo!  Wow!  thumbsup 
 
INNflight
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RE: For Those Who Think This Is A Fake...

Sun Nov 29, 2009 9:30 am

Indeed I didn't think the A310 would only have inboard ailerons ("all speed ailerons" as Airbus named them), simply because a lot of other types do have inboard and outboard ailerons, as of which the outboard ones are used during slower flight (i.e. landing, take off, etc..).

I guess that's why most people went looking for the control deflections at the end of the wings, and of course on the inner side they are not visible as said correctly.
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RE: For Those Who Think This Is A Fake...

Sun Nov 29, 2009 12:12 pm

Good pick up Ed!
Never flown the 310 but even looking at the pic it seems to have them as its standard to have the wicks located on the aileron trailing edges but obviously not in this case.
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RE: For Those Who Think This Is A Fake...

Sun Nov 29, 2009 12:34 pm



Quoting Sharktt (Thread starter):

Don't worry about it, Paolo, really. [b]Any/b] picutre that gets a lot of hits and looks sligthly unusual will be claimed to be fake by some, especially outside A.net. People don't know the effects of long lenses. They also don't know that A.net pictures are expertly screened, and fakers banned.

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RE: For Those Who Think This Is A Fake...

Sun Nov 29, 2009 1:49 pm



Quoting Ptrjong (Reply 48):
A.net pictures are expertly screened, and fakers banned.

Interesting observation Peter. As a matter of curiosity, what does happen with photos that have somehow slipped through the screening process and are "faked;" for that matter, what constitutes a "fake." What degree of manipulation transgresses the threshold of enhancement and becomes fraud? The topic has been raised a few times over the last several days, now I'm curious. Separate thread perhaps?

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