EMA747
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LHR What Focal Length

Fri Dec 04, 2009 3:02 pm

I'm going down to London for the day next Sunday and if the weather is good I will head down to LHR for some photography. I have been before and know all about the Myrtle Ave spots but looking at the runway useage table it looks like 27R will be used for landing if winds are favouring the 27s.
Is the spot the I have read about for 27R the one where the Northern Perimeter Rd/Eastern perimeter Rd and E-Church Rd all join at the roundabout?
I guess 70-200mm will be ok for this spot?

If 09s are in use is spot D on the map here any good? LHR" target=_blank>http://www.plane-mad.com/guides.php?guide=LHR
It says if 09s are in use it's always 09L for landing all day long, is this correct? Is 70-200 ok for this spot too?
Also is this spot ok from a security/police point of view? It looks like a big field so I guess it might be.

Thanks for any hints.

Andy S
Failing doesn’t make you a failure. Giving up and refusing to try again does!
 
sulman
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RE: LHR What Focal Length

Fri Dec 04, 2009 3:22 pm

09L is like Myrtle, really. Feels a bit more rural. You could use an 18-55 if you wanted.

70-200 will be fine for both places.
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lgw340
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RE: LHR What Focal Length

Fri Dec 04, 2009 3:40 pm

It really depends where abouts you are going. In Myrtle avenue you will need 18mm to fit in an A340-600/500, 777-300, 747 etc. If you are doing the 27L departures from the petrol station 70mm is fine to fit the whole plane in. For 27R arrivals, 70mm won't fit larger planes in from side on however you will get them when they are coming at you. 55mm is advisable from 27R arrivals really. Hope this helps
Thanks
Chris
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EMA747
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RE: LHR What Focal Length

Fri Dec 04, 2009 3:47 pm

Thanks guys.

Chris - I also have the Canon 17-40 L so on my crop body I think that might be ok where the 70-200 is too long.

Andy S
Failing doesn’t make you a failure. Giving up and refusing to try again does!
 
sulman
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RE: LHR What Focal Length

Fri Dec 04, 2009 3:56 pm

Also, you can move around a lot more freely in 09L area, so side-on with 70mm on an APS-C body will not be a problem.
It takes a big man to admit they are wrong, and I am not a big man.
 
spencer
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RE: LHR What Focal Length

Fri Dec 04, 2009 4:33 pm

Andy, I don't know what Chris is talking about, it's totally misleading. Firstly somewhere around the 70mm mark should suffice for the long frames at Myrtle, 50 would definitely do it! 18 is pure overkill and you'll be cropping till the cows come home!! Likewise for the field for 09L, you'll need more than 55mm there in almost every instance. I don't know where Chris actually positions himself but most people will hug the hedges at both spots, and common sense will tell you the nearer you go, the wider you'll need. You'll have no trouble from the bill but be aware they just might approach you for checks. You won't ever need the 17-40 on unless you're aiming for a wide shot. Not necessary at LHR. Most of my side ons at the 'Row will be from my 100-400 or 24-105. The latter will be nearer the full zoom end of the lens' range, if anything.
Spence.
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lgw340
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RE: LHR What Focal Length

Fri Dec 04, 2009 6:24 pm

Spencer - Im normally pressed against the hedge too (practically in it) I just meant that an 18-55 type lens does me on my 350D. Not that those planes will only fit in at 18mm  cry 
Chris
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JakTrax
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RE: LHR What Focal Length

Fri Dec 04, 2009 7:46 pm

Well I've just got back to Stoke from a great day's shooting at LHR. Myrtle is okay but there's a much nicer place on the A30 opposite the end of Cains Lane...


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You do however require at least a three-step ladder, especially for the heavies. Nice angle and a bit of background to show it's LHR and not just anywhere. I personally find them too high at Myrtle for decent side-ons. If you don't have a ladder you can either walk further up the A30 (towards the threshold) or use the Bedfont Football Club's grounds (more-or-less opposite Myrtle on Hatton Road).

Quoting LGW340 (Reply 2):
In Myrtle avenue you will need 18mm to fit in an A340-600/500

I must've worked a miracle with my 28-105 then...  Wink


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And I wasn't even at 28mm!

Like others have said, at all spots except Myrtle and the 27R roundabout you'll not need to take the 70-200 off (unless you're after side-ons of A340-600s and 777-300s). At the 09L spot (which quite rightly is almost always used for arrivals if the wind is easterly) if you wander into the field behind the 'regular' field you'll see a grass bank leading up to the motorway. This spot is popular with those with longer lenses, although you'll be able to shoot anything 767 or bigger with a 200mm. The angle is better as again the 'usual' 09L field sees aircraft pass at too high an altitude for my liking. This is also true of the 27R spot - often referred to as 'the huts'.

09L 'regular' field...


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27R roundabout...


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Finally, the 27L departure spot is anywhere around the Esso garage on the A30. Again ladders are useful. There is a similar spot for 09R take-offs but it requires at least a 300mm lens.

Hope this helps.

Karl
 
spencer
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RE: LHR What Focal Length

Fri Dec 04, 2009 8:26 pm

It should be noted that it's not advisable to shoot near the huts now. There's signs up telling you this.
Spence.
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lgw340
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RE: LHR What Focal Length

Fri Dec 04, 2009 8:47 pm



Quoting Spencer (Reply 8):

Even if you are just on foot? I know many photographers that know the code so they can park there at weekends.
Chris
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spencer
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RE: LHR What Focal Length

Fri Dec 04, 2009 9:15 pm

That will give us all a good name won't it.....!
Spence.
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EMA747
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RE: LHR What Focal Length

Sat Dec 05, 2009 1:35 am

Karl - I would look a bit silly taking a step ladder on the train down from Nottingham so I'll stick to the bits that don't require one. lol  But thanks for the detailed info.

Quoting LGW340 (Reply 9):
It should be noted that it's not advisable to shoot near the huts now. There's signs up telling you this.

Why is this the case? When I've been past it on the bus it looks just like the bit around Hatton cross, ie just a normal road. I'm not taking a car so will just standing on the pavement really cause some issues? Of course if it will I will avoid that spot as I don't want to reuin anything for others.


Another question - Is the underground an ok way of getting to the airport? The Heathrow Express is a damn ripoff and the local train is about £12 and takes nearly as long as the underground. The reason I ask is a friend said it can be a bit dodgy on the tube on that end of the route as it goes through lots of dodgy areas. Is there any truth in this?

Andy S

[Edited 2009-12-04 17:36:15]
Failing doesn’t make you a failure. Giving up and refusing to try again does!
 
spencer
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RE: LHR What Focal Length

Sat Dec 05, 2009 8:05 am

The reason I mentioned the huts and the anti spotting signs, is because the huts is a business/trading estate and I think what happened a few years ago is that the guys that work there got a bit pee'd off with all the spotters parking up on the grass verges, etc. Standing down by the roundabout near the old road crossing to maintenance, is fine however.
As to taking the tube, you'll be fine. There's always people onboard, and I've never been witness to anything out of the ordinary.
Spence.
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JakTrax
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RE: LHR What Focal Length

Sat Dec 05, 2009 10:50 am



Quoting Spencer (Reply 8):
It should be noted that it's not advisable to shoot near the huts now. There's signs up telling you this

Can they enforce this as I thought that roundabout was part of the public road system? Or are you referring to 'the huts' themselves (which do look as though they could well be private)?

Quoting EMA747 (Reply 11):
The reason I ask is a friend said it can be a bit dodgy on the tube on that end of the route as it goes through lots of dodgy areas. Is there any truth in this?

When I was 17/18/19 (in the days before I could drive) I regularly caught the Tube from Euston Station to LHR. It was always a busy journey but never did I feel it was dodgy. AS long as you don't go to great lengths to advertise the fact that you're carrying expensive camera gear I'd say you'll be fine - unless things have changed since then?

Karl
 
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RE: LHR What Focal Length

Sat Dec 05, 2009 11:43 am



Quoting JakTrax (Reply 13):
are you referring to 'the huts' themselves

That I am. Along the huts, and actually on the side walls of them, there's signs telling you no spotting's allowed. Whether they can enforce it, or whether you abide by it, is completely up to you. It's not a great spot anyway. Very similar to Myrtle, but with more of the approach visible.
Spence.
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JakTrax
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RE: LHR What Focal Length

Sat Dec 05, 2009 12:34 pm

They would have a job enforcing this 'law' as being private they'd require a civil action to remove you - which let's face it is more hassle than it'd be worth. On the flip side their complaints to the local authorities could make life generally hard for the local photog's. Probably just best to shut up and put up, especially since it isn't one of LHR's 'premium' photo-spots.

Quoting Spencer (Reply 14):
It's not a great spot anyway. Very similar to Myrtle, but with more of the approach visible

I agree. The aircraft are slightly higher than Myrtle too, making it worse in my opinion. Standing at the back wall by the huts improved things slightly (as does standing in the next field back at the 09L end) but you then had to start dodging the lamp-posts.

My personal favourite spots are the verge opposite Cains Lane (on the A30), the Esso on the A30 and the embankment leading up to the motorway at 09L. I've also been shown the 09R bank-out shot places but unfortunately don't have a 400mm lens (yet!).

Karl
 
hotplane
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RE: LHR What Focal Length

Sat Dec 05, 2009 12:39 pm

As an alternative to the huts you could try standing round the corner on the grass near the large BA run pen. In all honesty if landers are on 27R I actually prefer doing line ups on 27L as about 90% of what comes in goes out again within an hour or two, plus you have the nice belly reflections when something goes full length.
A 70-300 is fine here and so long as you stay on the other side of the road the police/BAA wont bother you.

[Edited 2009-12-05 04:47:48 by hotplane]
?
 
JakTrax
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RE: LHR What Focal Length

Sat Dec 05, 2009 1:36 pm



Quoting Hotplane (Reply 16):
In all honesty if landers are on 27R I actually prefer doing line ups on 27L as about 90% of what comes in goes out again within an hour or two, plus you have the nice belly reflections when something goes full length.
A 70-300 is fine here and so long as you stay on the other side of the road the police/BAA wont bother y

Surely you mean rotations? From somewhere around the Esso garage? You can get line-ups on 27L but it's a risky business as you're shooting through the fence. Security can and probably will collar you!

The 'other side of the road' wouldn't be much good for line-ups with the fence, etc. in the way!!!

Karl
 
EMA747
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RE: LHR What Focal Length

Sat Dec 05, 2009 3:18 pm

Is the huts the red line I have drawn on this map and marked H? Also is the field marked A accessible or is it fenced off?
Also where will the sun be shining from during the mid to later part of the day? (If it's sunny at all that is   ).



Spence where are these two taken from?

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Anyone know anything about where these spots are and what lenses are needed?

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Photo © Ken Iwelumo - Global Aviation Images




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Photo © Stephane Ferreira




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Photo © Allan Huse



Andy S

[Edited 2009-12-05 07:18:46]
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JakTrax
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RE: LHR What Focal Length

Sat Dec 05, 2009 3:31 pm

Andy,

'The huts' are indeed where you've marked. Field A I wouldn't have a clue about but I can tell you without doubt that the aircraft will be far too high and a bit close from there.

Next Sunday (13th) they'll be using 27R for arrivals if the winds are westerly; 09L if from the east. The sun this time of year is good on the south side of the approaches (i.e. all spots) bewteen sunrise and sunset, so you should in theory get all day.

As for Spence's shots, I'm guessing they were taken through the fence somewhere to the east of T4 (close to where Cains meets the A30). Same with Allan's US shot. The EK I think looks airside and the BA 747 is a summer-only spot.

Karl
 
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RE: LHR What Focal Length

Sat Dec 05, 2009 4:33 pm



Quoting JakTrax (Reply 19):
The EK I think looks airside

From the Rennaissance Hotel I reckon
 
JakTrax
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RE: LHR What Focal Length

Sat Dec 05, 2009 6:09 pm

Yes, looking at it Phil it does now. I didn't think so at first looking at the BMI hangar - it's shot with a fair zoom I think.

Karl
 
hotplane
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RE: LHR What Focal Length

Sat Dec 05, 2009 7:16 pm



Quoting JakTrax (Reply 17):

I don't mean take shots from the other side of the road with fence in shot, I mean get your shot through the fence (or over if you want to use a ladder like I did for the A330 shot above) and cross back over. I'm not keen on rotations by Esso's as smaller aircraft are too high.
?
 
hotplane
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RE: LHR What Focal Length

Sat Dec 05, 2009 7:25 pm

Field A is not accessable.

The 777 was shot though the fence roughly oppsite the A30/Cains Lane. A 28-70 for stuff coming out here should do.

The A380 shot is from the Rennaisance hotel. A 70-300?

The 747 is an early morning shot from the old 23 landing lights field. Only good for summer evenings and maybe very early summer mornings at a push. 28-70 for 747's/777's, a 70-300 for everything else.

The A330 shot from the same place as the A321 above. A 70-300 is fine for this.

Hope that helps!

[Edited 2009-12-05 11:38:40 by hotplane]
?
 
spencer
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RE: LHR What Focal Length

Sat Dec 05, 2009 9:10 pm

Hi Andy. Both of my pictures are from around the crash gate area outside block 94, the area directly beside the concrete blast shields around T4. NB. I said around the crash gate...
Spence.
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hotplane
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RE: LHR What Focal Length

Sat Dec 05, 2009 9:45 pm

Hi Andy. Both of my pictures are from around the crash gate area outside block 94, the area directly beside the concrete blast shields around T4. NB. I said around the crash gate...
Spence.

The 'no go zone'
?
 
spencer
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RE: LHR What Focal Length

Sun Dec 06, 2009 7:35 am

Correct, the crash gate area is off limits, so to speak. That's why I said "around" that area. You can either use steps or shoot through the fence at this spot. Not so good during hot summer days due to immense heat haze.
Spence.
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hotplane
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RE: LHR What Focal Length

Sun Dec 06, 2009 8:57 am

Absolutely, if you're going to get shots from here do it during the winter as the rest of the time the light and heat haze is awful.
?
 
Trackcharlie
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RE: LHR What Focal Length

Sun Dec 06, 2009 9:11 am

Just to add another spot as it hasn't been mentioned yet for 27R landers, has a bench, is quiet, you won't get bothered, you have a great view of the approach and plenty of room to move around, the field at the end of Waye Avenue is a favourite spot of mine. You can park easily and walk down a short alley into the field. You can get similar shots to those on 09R in the field.

But, I have only been on a weekday!
map
Satnav TW5 9SQ gets you to the road.


Just wondering what's the deal with the crash gate opposite the end of Cains Lane where Spencer's shot was taken from. Is it really a no go area?


Lastly, anyone know if there is a similar place to Feltham Park 09L bank shots for 27L banks shots. DVR SIDs for example require a near 130 degree turn and I often see these from the M25 and my mouth waters! I just can't find anywhere in the right position to shoot from. I've promised myself a few hours shooting there soon so if I find anywhere.......

 Cool
 
spencer
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RE: LHR What Focal Length

Sun Dec 06, 2009 11:24 am

Yes there is. It's near the reservoirs. Be sure to not include the church in your shot though...
Spence.
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Trackcharlie
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RE: LHR What Focal Length

Sun Dec 06, 2009 12:04 pm

Thanks for this. I'm assuming that's the Staines reservoirs? Also, you don't know which Church off hand, or a road name? Sorry to keep on but I may have a chance to go later now the weather has opened up and havn't much time for a church hunt!  bouncy 
 
spencer
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RE: LHR What Focal Length

Sun Dec 06, 2009 1:11 pm

St. Mary's in Stanwell, but the reservoir is beyond that. My comment was referring to a motiv rejection is all. Lol.
Spence.
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Trackcharlie
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RE: LHR What Focal Length

Sun Dec 06, 2009 1:38 pm

Fantastic! I did look on g maps and there's a few churches dotted around there! There's some open space too so I should be OK!


TC  bigthumbsup 
 
hotplane
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RE: LHR What Focal Length

Wed Dec 09, 2009 10:54 am

The people at EDF Energy jump up and down and start moaning if you go near the crash gate as it is supposedly their property. Also, Police/BAA have the 'security' excuse to throw people out if found in there.
?
 
EMA747
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RE: LHR What Focal Length

Thu Dec 10, 2009 12:27 am

Any London regulars know what time the light gets too low for decent photographs at this time of year? (obviously it depends if it's cloudy or not). The reason I ask is that I was out at EMA today and the light got a bit dodgy from 14:30-45! It was slightly cloudy but sunny too.


Andy S
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Trackcharlie
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RE: LHR What Focal Length

Thu Dec 10, 2009 7:55 am

We're approaching the shortest day already! On a clear day I would say 15:00 ish, earlier if cloudy or hazy.
 
JakTrax
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RE: LHR What Focal Length

Thu Dec 10, 2009 4:03 pm

I was at LHR on 19 Dec '07. It was a clear, crisp day and the light was good from 09:00 exactly 'til 15:05. Bear in mind it really does have to be crystal clear to get that length of time shooting. On 04 Dec (as in last week) the light was good from 08:45, however we didn't get chance to see much of the afternoon traffic as the cloud was in by 13:00!

Karl
 
EMA747
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RE: LHR What Focal Length

Thu Dec 10, 2009 5:02 pm

Damn. My train doesn't get to St Pancras until about 10:45 so I really won't get much time at LHR at all really.

Andy S
Failing doesn’t make you a failure. Giving up and refusing to try again does!
 
JakTrax
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RE: LHR What Focal Length

Thu Dec 10, 2009 5:19 pm

You should get three hours if the sun plays ball.

Best to go by car to make the most of it - do you drive? Own a car?

Karl
 
EMA747
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RE: LHR What Focal Length

Thu Dec 10, 2009 5:22 pm

I drive but don't really like driving but I don't actually own a car. I already have the train booked as it's the only way to avoid paying about £100 for the normal ticket!

Andy S
Failing doesn’t make you a failure. Giving up and refusing to try again does!
 
JakTrax
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RE: LHR What Focal Length

Thu Dec 10, 2009 5:53 pm

Luckily all the spots at LHR can be accessed reasonably by public transport (when it works!).

Karl
 
EMA747
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RE: LHR What Focal Length

Sat Dec 12, 2009 12:21 pm

Looks like it will be 09L for landing tomorrow. I will got to the spot D mentioned here http://www.plane-mad.com/guides.php?guide=LHR

If you go on satellite view all the roads between T5 and the field mentioned look pretty unwalkable. Anyone any idea how to actually walk from T5 to the field and not get run over?!

Andy S
Failing doesn’t make you a failure. Giving up and refusing to try again does!
 
spencer
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RE: LHR What Focal Length

Sat Dec 12, 2009 2:34 pm

Take the free bus. Think the nearest stop is the village.
Spence.
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EMA747
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RE: LHR What Focal Length

Sat Dec 12, 2009 4:00 pm



Quoting Spencer (Reply 42):
Take the free bus. Think the nearest stop is the village.

What number is the bus and where on the map is the village?

Andy S
Failing doesn’t make you a failure. Giving up and refusing to try again does!
 
spencer
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RE: LHR What Focal Length

Sat Dec 12, 2009 5:10 pm

http://www.heathrowairport.com/asset...20files/travel_around_Heathrow.pdf
Don't know how up to date that link is, it's been in my favourites for quite some time and I've only ever used the buses a couple of times.
Spence.
EOS1D4, 7D, 30D, 100-400/4.5-5.6 L IS USM, 70-200/2.8 L IS2 USM, 17-40 f4 L USM, 24-105 f4 L IS USM, 85 f1.8 USM
 
EMA747
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RE: LHR What Focal Length

Sat Dec 12, 2009 5:26 pm

I can't work out where I would have to get off that is anywhere near the field.

Alternatively, are takeoff shots possible from Hatton cross or nearby? What lens would I need?


Andy S
Failing doesn’t make you a failure. Giving up and refusing to try again does!
 
spencer
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RE: LHR What Focal Length

Sat Dec 12, 2009 6:06 pm

You want to jump off in Longford, as you turn in off the Stanwell Moor Rd and Longford roundabout, should be the first stop. You'll need to walk back on yourself about 3-5 mins. Can't miss the field. Rotations off 09L can be shot off the Northern Perimeter Rd, but it will be backlit this time of year.
Spence.
EOS1D4, 7D, 30D, 100-400/4.5-5.6 L IS USM, 70-200/2.8 L IS2 USM, 17-40 f4 L USM, 24-105 f4 L IS USM, 85 f1.8 USM
 
EMA747
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RE: LHR What Focal Length

Sat Dec 12, 2009 6:17 pm

Thanks Spence.

Given that the weather looks not great in the afternoon and I won't get to LHR until 12 at the earliest I'm debating whether or not to bother with going out to LHR at all tomorrow. I might just look round some museums instead. So undecided.....

Andy S
Failing doesn’t make you a failure. Giving up and refusing to try again does!
 
donder10
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RE: LHR What Focal Length

Tue Dec 15, 2009 10:07 pm

Andy,
Stephane Ferreira's photo is taken from a spot that is only useable during the evening in summer. The 380 shot looks like it was taken from a room in the Renaissance Hotel.


Allan,

just had a quick flick through some of the pics on your website. What focal length did you need for the Turkmenistan 737 climbing out from 09R ?


The weather is looking good for Saturday at the moment so hoping to give the spot by Cains Lane a first go. Anybody else around?


Alex
 
EMA747
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RE: LHR What Focal Length

Wed Dec 16, 2009 12:12 am

Thanks for the info Alex.

My trip down to London was Sunday just past and I didn't go to LHR in the end. It was a good call too as the weather was much worse than they made out on the weather website/TV.
I still had a nice day in London so it turned out ok.


Andy S
Failing doesn’t make you a failure. Giving up and refusing to try again does!

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