miamix707
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Sending Photos To Airways Magazine... And Others

Sat Dec 05, 2009 9:27 pm

Ok, has anyone sent pics to Airways magazine lately? I emailed them and they replied compensation is $10 plus a copy of the magazine.

Airliners (which AFAIK is the cheapest), pays only $10 take it or leave it, but I had been told before, Airways payed $20 per picture.

Not that I'm greedy but one of the subjects is a plane nobody has shot yet after getting painted for its new operator and might not even be shootable again for a while, I was wondering if I should ask at least $20 or more for it.

Wonder how much Airliner World, Air International, etc pay..
 
Lexy
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RE: Sending Photos To Airways Magazine... And Others

Sat Dec 05, 2009 11:56 pm

Well, most magazine base prices on how good a relationship you have with the managing editor. And with that said, how many of your photos are used, how big, and quality of them. For just anyone to send a photo in, there are the standard rates. Not to mention, many magazines have deals worked out to get their photos from groups like AirTeamImages (whom I am a member of), or others.

I know the Managing Editor over in England for Key Publishing. Key publishes many of the industry's leading magazines. Airways Magazine is weird in that you really can't talk with anyone over the phone. I'll call Key (in England) from here at my home in the US, and talk with them anytime (in the morning mind you) I need to about a story I may be supplying photos for. All communication w/ Airways (based out of Idaho I believe) is done via email and that can slow things down. Plus, they typically have their "preferred" photographers for whom they get pictures from. That also plays a part in the compensation one will receive. Thankfully, I have managed to foster many good relationships in the airline publishing business and even some in the book publishing side too in the last year. It has paid off, literally, all my investments in gear and camera "stuff"!

[Edited 2009-12-05 16:00:34 by lexy]
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ANITIX87
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RE: Sending Photos To Airways Magazine... And Others

Sun Dec 06, 2009 1:43 am

Air International pays 20 pounds ($35) per image. I recently sold 6 images to them and that was what they paid me.

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miamix707
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RE: Sending Photos To Airways Magazine... And Others

Sun Dec 06, 2009 4:05 am

Lexy, don't get me wrong I'm very happy you answered my thread and although no doubt making a point (which I can learn from) it doesn't really help me any that you have a great relationship with the managing editor in the UK. Just because you're in Air Team whatever doesn't mean other photogs (which might happen to actually shoot slides most of the time for their private collection) instead of uploading to a.net or whatever, should be short-changed and a GOOD subject they send shouldn't be compensated fairly.

One of the reasons I rarely upload any of the digital stuff I might shoot is precisely that, "favoritism" towards "regular contributors", especially if someone knows them personally. I've send in something new, rare, reasonably well edited, pretty shot, in good light, to that 'other site' before and have had some screener kid reject it, while accepting a ton of crappy-lit shots of generic subjects already littering their database.

I saw (what I think it's the last issue) of Airlner World (the one that has a DHL 767 on the center page?) and I wasn't all that impressed honestly with their new shots section. That one in particular lacked contrast and looked "flat" to be on the centerfold -in my opinion.

Air Fly Team whatever might get the chance to get taken up on a Cessna and shoot a DHL 767 in flight, or get you a nice KLM takeoff shot at AMS or the latest Airbus at Tolouse (that 100 other people will shoot). But if I send something rare that possibly nobody has (and there are no pics online of that plane in those colors either) I thought a magazine would be glad to have it and pay to have it, regardless if the photographer is big-name or not. Another one of the shots I sent has the look, good contrast, nice background, in addition to being an interesting/nostalgic subject worthy of a center page feature all by itself.

Quoting ANITIX87 (Reply 2):
Air International pays 20 pounds ($35) per image. I recently sold 6 images to them and that was what they paid me.

That sounds a lot more fair right there. No doubt it's nice to have your name next to a photo but for $10 dollars I'd rather keep it to my collection next time.

[Edited 2009-12-06 09:03:33 by srbmod]
 
waketurbulence
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RE: Sending Photos To Airways Magazine... And Others

Sun Dec 06, 2009 5:07 am



Quoting MIAMIx707 (Reply 3):
Another one of the shots I sent has the look, good contrast, nice background, in addition to being an interesting/nostalgic subject worthy of a center page feature all by itself.

You sure do seem to think highly of your work. I would love to see if you have the confidence to post some of the shots you are talking about on this thread.
-Matt
 
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RE: Sending Photos To Airways Magazine... And Others

Sun Dec 06, 2009 5:11 am



Quoting MIAMIx707 (Reply 3):
That sounds a lot more fair right there. No doubt it's nice to have your name next to a photo but for $10 dollars I'd rather keep it to my collection next time.

It's $10 you didn't have before, and it didn't cost you anything to make it, plus you keep the copyrights. Yes it's a low number, but it is more money than it'd make just sitting on your computer.
Lighten up while you still can, don't even try to understand, just find a place to make your stand and take it easy
 
JakTrax
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RE: Sending Photos To Airways Magazine... And Others

Sun Dec 06, 2009 7:57 pm



Quoting MIAMIx707 (Reply 3):
I saw (what I think it's the last issue) of Airlner World (the one that has a DHL 767 on the center page?) and I wasn't all that impressed honestly with their new shots section

Many of my images look 'different' when they're published in magazines - flat, dark, under-saturated, etc.

Karl
 
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RE: Sending Photos To Airways Magazine... And Others

Sun Dec 06, 2009 8:18 pm

Quoting Jetmatt777 (Reply 5):
It's $10 you didn't have before, and it didn't cost you anything to make it, plus you keep the copyrights. Yes it's a low number, but it is more money than it'd make just sitting on your computer.

Not only that, it's also exposure your image wouldn't get if just left sitting in your collection.

I have sold pictures to two magazines, Airliners Magazine and Airports of the World. Airliners offered $10 plus a copy of the issue for one image and Airports of the World wanted 4 images for a feature and paid much better. Both offered me amounts in accordance with their standard rates based on the number of images, size used and layout so I didn't bother negotiating. It wasn't about the money for me anyway. I was just happy to be published and ok with it as long as I wasn't giving my photos up for free.

[Edited 2009-12-06 12:21:07]
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
JakTrax
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RE: Sending Photos To Airways Magazine... And Others

Sun Dec 06, 2009 8:30 pm

All mag's have standard photo rates which are published on their websites and often in the pages of the mag's themselves. It's a 'take it or leave it' scenario and I always take what they are offering, no matter how little it is. If you try to bargain for more money they will simply walk away and not publish the pic - your call.

Karl
 
Lexy
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RE: Sending Photos To Airways Magazine... And Others

Sun Dec 06, 2009 11:01 pm

Quoting MIAMIx707 (Reply 3):
But if I send something rare that possibly nobody has (and there are no pics online of that plane in those colors either) I thought a magazine would be glad to have it and pay to have it, regardless if the photographer is big-name or not. Another one of the shots I sent has the look, good contrast, nice background, in addition to being an interesting/nostalgic subject worthy of a center page feature all by itself.

WOW! I didn't mean to tick you off or anything. I was just trying to help for Christ sakes.

If you send a picture like the one you described above to the magazine, it's going to appear as a small pic, at the front of the issue, mixed in with other "New Stuff" from your region of the world. Nothing special and certainly nothing that they would scrap their ideas for stories in the next months issue for. You see, they plan the issues months in advance and consult with their "Photography Contributors" for photos regarding the subject of the magazine issue. If it's an article being written by one of their main editors, then the editor usually does their own photography work on the article and won't need any "outside" help. Let me give you an example here:


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Michael Davis - AirTeamImages



I sent this to Airways Magazine because it was the first Delta ERJ 175 in the country. Guess how much it fetched me. You bet, $10 pathetic dollars, but that's just the way it is.

Rich International Airways Lockheed L-1011-385-1 TriStar 1 (N312GB)  **Cockpit**
This was part of "Airliner Word" Magazine's tribute issue for the Lockheed L-1011. I actually collaborated with the editor team for this shot and worked with them on it. I even flew to ROW from BNA for this! It fetched me a bunch more than just $10. It was a half-page part of the article. Once I got back home, I sent him all the pictures I got while in ROW and he chose which shot(s) he wanted to "try" out for the article. In the long run, it's all about "EXPOSURE"!! Without that, you are nothing in the aviation photography business. I could honestly care less about the money part. Plus, I have a great deal of fun just taking the pictures. Some men fish, others hunt, I take pictures of Airplanes and other things. Photography is my passion!


You can either decide to send them a bunch of new, or renewed, airplane pictures and make $10 for a small picture on one of the first handful of pages of the mag. or you can do something else with it. What you do with it is your business, but you've got to understand that publishing companies aren't going to fall all over themselves for yours or mine work. You've got to be your own salesman and make them feel bad, so to speak, for not coming to you sooner. You also have to keep in mind that it isn't all about what YOU think about the shot, it's what THEY think about it. And, FWIW, they do the editing to fit their magazine standards. You don't do anything for them except clone out the dust spots and straighten the shot up. If you think a picture in the centerfold of their mag. stinks, that's your opinion and you're entitled to it. But, the ultimate decision is made by the lead editor and the other people working in layout. It's their call and really not anyone else, and the methods they use are more than fair in soliciting for photographs of specific subjects. If you don't like, understand, or appreciate that, then I got nothing for ya.

I apologize for ruffling your feathers like I did. Next time, I'll think twice before taking time out of my day to help another photog out on this site.

[Edited 2009-12-06 15:08:58 by lexy]

[Edited 2009-12-06 15:18:09 by lexy]

[Edited 2009-12-06 15:21:05 by lexy]
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miamix707
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RE: Sending Photos To Airways Magazine... And Others

Mon Dec 07, 2009 12:55 am



Quoting Lexy (Reply 9):
I apologize for ruffling your feathers like I did. Next time, I'll think twice before taking time out of my day to help another photog out on this site.

Hey buddy, I wasn't offended or anything, and sincerely appreciate you taking the time to answer. I did get the impression you came off as an elitist photog bragging type, but hey,there's a chance my perception was totally wrong there, and if it was, accept my sincere apology. Sounds like it was a goal of yours to get your photos out there and you've made good contacts and got nice gigs, sweet! But, see what I mean? look at the following:

Quoting WakeTurbulence (Reply 4):
You sure do seem to think highly of your work. I would love to see if you have the confidence to post some of the shots you are talking about on this thread.

oooh sounds like a challenge! I'm excited  Yeah sure

Quoting Silver1SWA (Reply 7):

Airports of the World

Airports of the World, one I didn't have in mind, thanks.

Quoting JakTrax (Reply 6):
Many of my images look 'different' when they're published in magazines - flat, dark, under-saturated, etc.

I sent a few shots to Airliners last year for one issue and I don't even think they sharpened these shots and definitely didn't adjust the slightly off color balance and saturation off the digital camera (two were slide scans and it was obvious they also needed more color saturation). Not having any experience with magazines I'd thought the editor would edit them to some standard parameter, but I guessed wrong.

One shot I did send edited because it was taken on difficult lighting conditions, edited to make it look perfect, and what do you know? Whoever was in charge, pumped-up the colors on that one (lol the only one not needing it) making it look fake and noisy, they ruined the shot.
 
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RE: Sending Photos To Airways Magazine... And Others

Mon Dec 07, 2009 1:40 am



Quoting MIAMIx707 (Reply 10):
Hey buddy, I wasn't offended or anything, and sincerely appreciate you taking the time to answer. I did get the impression you came off as an elitist photog bragging type, but hey,there's a chance my perception was totally wrong there, and if it was, accept my sincere apology. Sounds like it was a goal of yours to get your photos out there and you've made good contacts and got nice gigs, sweet! But, see what I mean? look at the following:

Listen, no problem at all! I appreciate your kind words and I am humbled by them. I am a humbled photographer who is appreciative of any help I can get. I have made a lot of friends and lost a few in my journey as an aviation photographer. But, the friends/contacts I have in this hobby are some of the best friendships I have ever had and I thank God for them everyday. Trust me, there's plenty of photogs out there who are much better than I am. But, just like you and I have said, I've busted my butt and made contacts the old fashioned way. I have shook hands and kissed babies to get to where I am at today, which still isn't where I want to be! I am happy to help any other photographer out there and I am willing to work with them in any way. I don't want to be the only one to succeed in this field. I want others to as well and if I can help them do so, then that's what is really rewarding!!! In the future, if I can ever help you, let me know!

As for the pictures and editing them, that really depends on the layout designers and the lead editors preference. They may end up looking like garbage to us once they make it to print, but since the only thing I do is straighten and clone out dust spots, it's not my problem if they can't edit! LOL!! That's on them, not me and I am always quick to point that out.  Wink I have found the magazines that are published by Key Publishing to be the best when it comes to the final product. Their editing team consist of aviation photographers and their lead editor is one as well. So with that, they know what a shot should look like. Also, because they own so many different magazines about the industry, you stand a really good chance of getting your name out there in the public worldwide. I think they have a sales rate average of around 35,000 magazine copies of just "Airliner World" worldwide. Their next issue is going to be awesome because it is spotlighting on a tribute to the MD-11!!!!

Airways Magazine is a good way of keeping up with stuff here on the "homefront" in the USA, but I don't like their layout, some of their photo selections, and their ability to be contacted. They, like I said in the first post way up there, are some of the hardest to get in touch with.
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waketurbulence
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RE: Sending Photos To Airways Magazine... And Others

Mon Dec 07, 2009 1:40 am



Quoting MIAMIx707 (Reply 10):
oooh sounds like a challenge! I'm excited

Not a challenge at all. I am honestly curious about the shots you are discussing. You came off pompous in your response to Michael, and you wrote yourself that your shots are worthy of a publication. I like looking at aviation images, especially shots that are as good as you are describing. I guess we'll never see them, looks like I got the answer I thought I would.

Or maybe I'll just have to wait for the next hot edition of Airliners mag, I'll be looking for your shots in the center spread  rotfl 
-Matt
 
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RE: Sending Photos To Airways Magazine... And Others

Mon Dec 07, 2009 7:09 am

There is one other very important part, and that is knowing aviation, knowing what is news and what to send to a magazine.
They are far less likely (to the point of being unlikely) to use a superb photograph of a common aircraft than a less spectacular one of something that is newsworthy. There is no point bombarding a magazine with photographs just because you happen to like them but the one that is news is likely to sell if you get it to them edited and quickly - old news is not news !
The more mundane stuff, that they might want one day need simply needs to be somewhere where an editor can find it, a picture library, a database and this site is as good as anywhere for that.

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RE: Sending Photos To Airways Magazine... And Others

Mon Dec 07, 2009 8:39 am



Quoting Dendrobatid (Reply 13):
The more mundane stuff, that they might want one day need simply needs to be somewhere where an editor can find it, a picture library, a database and this site is as good as anywhere for that.

I wish... but these days, they mostly turn to "the cartel" (aka ATI) for that...
Once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been...
 
miamix707
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RE: Sending Photos To Airways Magazine... And Others

Mon Dec 07, 2009 9:13 am



Quoting Lexy (Reply 11):
In the future, if I can ever help you, let me know!

Consider the future right now haha (and thanks again man)

Quoting WakeTurbulence (Reply 12):
You came off pompous in your response

I might be "pompous" but at least I don't have the 'confidence' to test anyone either, not even if I were trying out for The Wash Team  Wink

Quoting WakeTurbulence (Reply 12):
Or maybe I'll just have to wait for the next hot edition of Airliners mag, I'll be looking for your shots in the center spread

You might be looking for them in the wrong magazine then lol Just remember, we're talking about airplane magazines here. Haven't found any with a centerfold that was you know "hot" yet, but hey never say never. For something really hot I could always send you a pic of myself in my Scooby Doo underwear trying to get a tan, now that's caliente!
 
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RE: Sending Photos To Airways Magazine... And Others

Mon Dec 07, 2009 9:55 am



Quoting MIAMIx707 (Reply 10):
I sent a few shots to Airliners last year for one issue and I don't even think they sharpened these shots and definitely didn't adjust the slightly off color balance and saturation off the digital camera (two were slide scans and it was obvious they also needed more color saturation). Not having any experience with magazines I'd thought the editor would edit them to some standard parameter, but I guessed wrong.

One shot I did send edited because it was taken on difficult lighting conditions, edited to make it look perfect, and what do you know? Whoever was in charge, pumped-up the colors on that one (lol the only one not needing it) making it look fake and noisy, they ruined the shot.



Quoting Lexy (Reply 11):
They may end up looking like garbage to us once they make it to print, but since the only thing I do is straighten and clone out dust spots, it's not my problem if they can't edit! LOL!! That's on them, not me and I am always quick to point that out.

My own experience on this has been mixed. Occasionally magazines have edited my shots, occasionally they haven't. Most times where my shots got edited I found myself not liking the edit.

But I always assume photos will be published as is so I edit them before submitting. If the magazine editor wants to do any further editing it is up to him, but from my part the photos will be ready for publishing except only for conversion to CMYK format.
Make the most of the available light ... a lesson of photography that applies to life
 
JakTrax
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RE: Sending Photos To Airways Magazine... And Others

Mon Dec 07, 2009 1:58 pm

Think about how many images an editor will receive from third parties; then think about how much time he (or she) has to organise them in-between issues. Can you imagine how much time it'd take to edit all these images? I always do a miniscule amount of editing to relieve the burden on the editors - things like levelling, colour correction, brightness, etc. Most times to be honest editing isn't required, except for perhaps a little sharpening.

Karl
 
Lexy
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RE: Sending Photos To Airways Magazine... And Others

Mon Dec 07, 2009 2:08 pm



Quoting Fly-K (Reply 14):

I wish... but these days, they mostly turn to "the cartel" (aka ATI) for that...

Well, in ATI's defense, they have fostered relationships in a very fair and diplomatic way with publishing companies. They shouldn't have their feet held over the coals because their images appear the most in magazines.
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Fly-K
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RE: Sending Photos To Airways Magazine... And Others

Mon Dec 07, 2009 2:46 pm



Quoting Lexy (Reply 18):
Well, in ATI's defense, they have fostered relationships in a very fair and diplomatic way with publishing companies. They shouldn't have their feet held over the coals because their images appear the most in magazines.

No doubt they are successful, but this had led to a massive reduction of non-ATI photogs' chances to get published.
Once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been...
 
Lexy
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RE: Sending Photos To Airways Magazine... And Others

Mon Dec 07, 2009 2:52 pm



Quoting Fly-K (Reply 19):

No doubt they are successful, but this had led to a massive reduction of non-ATI photogs' chances to get published.

Perhaps, but if the "non-ATI" photogs work is better, then wouldn't it make sense on the magazines part to publish the better work? I would think so. In the end, it all comes down to how the publication wants to be seen and perceived in the public's (readers) eye. Especially when it's a publication that is seen on different continents. Always put your best foot forward!
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Fly-K
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RE: Sending Photos To Airways Magazine... And Others

Mon Dec 07, 2009 3:02 pm



Quoting Lexy (Reply 20):
Perhaps, but if the "non-ATI" photogs work is better, then wouldn't it make sense on the magazines part to publish the better work

Probably - if the difference is significant. However, ATI has some good photogs too, so publications know they get good quality from ATI, so why bother searching for something else?
Once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been...
 
AndyEastMids
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RE: Sending Photos To Airways Magazine... And Others

Mon Dec 07, 2009 3:33 pm



Quoting Dendrobatid (Reply 13):
The more mundane stuff, that they might want one day need simply needs to be somewhere where an editor can find it, a picture library, a database and this site is as good as anywhere for that.

The fundamental problem is that editors and the like cannot RELY on images from a.net on a day-to-day basis... OK on an adhoc basis for one-off newsworthy images put on page 3-6 of Airliners or Airways, but as has mentioned that doesn't pay too well these days - newsworthy pics are on the net these days, not in magazines, so the news shots are just a bit of window dressing to the main content.

The problems with a.net are firstly, we all know that 1024 pixels can disguise a multitude of sins that become more evident in high-res images, that 1024 pixels aren't enough for a full page spread, and thus that when an editor gets the a high-res it might not be useable. Secondly, editors have to deal with with individual photographers who either might not respond to an image request in a timely matter, or might want to hold out and negotiate individual deals.

Magazines go to known-libraries and known-regular-photographers for good reasons... Much easier - in many cases - to go to a single reliable source, with one point of contact, one person to deal with, and pre-knowledge that ALL of the images are immediately available high-res/high-quality.
 
Lexy
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RE: Sending Photos To Airways Magazine... And Others

Mon Dec 07, 2009 3:36 pm



Quoting AndyEastMids (Reply 22):
The problems with a.net are firstly, we all know that 1024 pixels can disguise a multitude of sins that become more evident in high-res images, that 1024 pixels aren't enough for a full page spread, and thus that when an editor gets the a high-res it might not be useable. Secondly, editors have to deal with with individual photographers who either might not respond to an image request in a timely matter, or might want to hold out and negotiate individual deals.

Magazines go to known-libraries and known-regular-photographers for good reasons... Much easier - in many cases - to go to a single reliable source, with one point of contact, one person to deal with, and pre-knowledge that ALL of the images are immediately available high-res/high-quality.

Well said and exactly what I was about to post.
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waketurbulence
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RE: Sending Photos To Airways Magazine... And Others

Mon Dec 07, 2009 4:15 pm



Quoting MIAMIx707 (Reply 15):
The Wash Team

Don't you mean Jet Fly Wash Whatever???

Send us your stuff, we'll put it right in the center.  Wink
 
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RE: Sending Photos To Airways Magazine... And Others

Mon Dec 07, 2009 4:44 pm

MIAMIx707,

Getting back to the topic at hand I really can't figure out why you posted this thread. It doesn't make too much sense and I'm probably not alone in wondering what your intentions are and what you're trying to say/achieve.

The way I perceive it you are moaning because the 'quality' of centre-page spreads, etc. used in magazines is not up to the quality of your work. You also appear to be moaning about the low sum of $10.00 Airliners magazine pays. Remember you can take it or leave it and the mag will more than likely obtain an image elsewhere. Just because you think an image is great or newsworthy doesn't mean the editors in question will - they (by their entitlement) are quite capable of making the decision what to publish and what not to publish; and they are also pretty good at judging quality.

As someone else has suggested, whenever images are involved it's appropriate to post them for critics to see. So far you have declined which I'm afraid will not help your cause.

Karl
 
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clickhappy
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RE: Sending Photos To Airways Magazine... And Others

Mon Dec 07, 2009 4:56 pm

It is important to remember that somethings "worth" is exactly what someone is willing to pay for. The fact of the matter is that there are lots of digital cameras out there - and lots of pictures to choose from. Also, many people are motivated to sell low, to see their name in print.

It just means that you need to try harder to be successful. In my opinion the cream always rises to the top. The best way to achieve success is to be consistent.
 
Lexy
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RE: Sending Photos To Airways Magazine... And Others

Mon Dec 07, 2009 6:04 pm



Quoting Clickhappy (Reply 26):
It is important to remember that somethings "worth" is exactly what someone is willing to pay for. The fact of the matter is that there are lots of digital cameras out there - and lots of pictures to choose from. Also, many people are motivated to sell low, to see their name in print.

It just means that you need to try harder to be successful. In my opinion the cream always rises to the top. The best way to achieve success is to be consistent.

You know, Royal does make a very good point here. I totally have to agree with him on this train of thought. The cream will rise to the top eventually!!
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JakTrax
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RE: Sending Photos To Airways Magazine... And Others

Mon Dec 07, 2009 6:48 pm

Too many digital cameras = try to be unique and a bit different. I always find a perfect rotation shot looks a lot nicer and I think the mag's may take the same view. The nicer the photo and the harder it is to achieve the more 'Brownie points' you earn I guess. I recently went along to MAN for the first revenue flight of QR's latest 777-200LR. The weather was not promising and so I decided to take the 'safe option' and get it static on 23L from the famous mound. As it happens the sun came out when needed and despite the fact that I could've got a more dramatic shot from the rotation point this was a photo for me personally and I was pleased with the result. I've seen the shots from the other end and they are nicer than mine aesthetically, and will probably out-do mine when it comes to the mag's - however the shot that day was for my collection and a rotation in murky weather is often an unnecessary risk if the 'safety net' is available.

As for consistency I guess that's important too. If you can keep supplying nice and varied shots of new and/or unique aircraft speedily then you become a good, reliable prospect.

Karl
 
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clickhappy
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RE: Sending Photos To Airways Magazine... And Others

Mon Dec 07, 2009 6:59 pm

Another important aspect to keep in mind while building a relationship(s) with a magazine is that a few "$10 images" might open some doors for you down the road.

Would you rather have a $100 note in your pocket from an image you sold, or a media flight on an A380? Know what I mean?
 
miamix707
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RE: Sending Photos To Airways Magazine... And Others

Mon Dec 07, 2009 8:53 pm



Quoting JakTrax (Reply 17):
Think about how many images an editor will receive from third parties; then think about how much time he (or she) has to organise them in-between issues. Can you imagine how much time it'd take to edit all these images?

Enough (in the case of Airliners) to make a story next to the picture and while focusing so much on that, get important information like the registration on my shot wrong lol

Quoting JakTrax (Reply 25):
I really can't figure out why you posted this thread. It doesn't make too much sense and I'm probably not alone in wondering what your intentions are and what you're trying to say/achieve

Perhaps you'd want to read the original post again instead on getting caught up on typical a.net elitist photog pettiness. We (you included) perhaps made it a longer discussion that it might have deserved, but that's what forums are for, right? You participated and gave your input right, but I guess you just want to complain?  highfive 

Quoting Clickhappy (Reply 26):
In my opinion the cream always rises to the top

In my opinion that's also very true, especially If that's your goal, be popular on a.net and have everyone tell you how great photoshopped, and artificial looking digital pics can come out, but that's not everyone's goal either.

Cream rises to the top eventually after submitting tons of shots until everyone knows your name, although if you don't have connections and or aren't "popular" on internet sites already it doesn't mean you will get a fair shot even when submitting a SUPERIOR image. I just saw the original file of the fist One World 757 pic taken at LAX by W. Andrzejewsky that was submitted here (and rejected). I don't know how the submitted edit looked, but based on the shot you guys accepted, the rejected shot I saw was definitely a nicer angle. Doubt it was any softer than the fist One World 767 pic you guys also accepted (a pretty shot no doubt) even though the fuselage is almost blown out.

Quoting Dendrobatid (Reply 13):
The more mundane stuff, that they might want one day need simply needs to be somewhere where an editor can find it, a picture library, a database and this site is as good as anywhere for that.

There are tons of photographers with rare stuff who don't upload to a.net. Quick example, if I wanted to do an article on Pakistan Intl. and include aircraft on shorter term leases, try finding a picture of a PIA Tu-154 on here. If I wanted to do one on recent failed Lat American startups, there isn't a single one of a Sansa 737..

But, you'll find plenty of anonymous bizjets, all sorts of private light aircraft, and sunset shots barely showing the plane, etc etc that get a million views. Some might be shocked to find there's a few "weirdos" -me included- who don't visit airliner photo sites to see that.

Quoting AndyEastMids (Reply 22):
The fundamental problem is that editors and the like cannot RELY on images from a.net on a day-to-day basis... OK on an adhoc basis for one-off newsworthy images put on page 3-6 of Airliners or Airways, but as has mentioned that doesn't pay too well these days

Case in point, the Servientrega 727 that we just saw make it to a.net the other day has existed for a year already. I've shot stuff that didn't make it on a magazines until 6 months later, although that might not be amazing enough cream for a Jet Wash Team center piece, bummer! Big grin

Quoting Lexy (Reply 20):
Perhaps, but if the "non-ATI" photogs work is better, then wouldn't it make sense on the magazines part to publish the better work?

Not if they saturate the market. And by the way, not everyone can pay to be taken up on a Cessna either everytime they feel like taking pics at a major airport from the air...
 
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clickhappy
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RE: Sending Photos To Airways Magazine... And Others

Mon Dec 07, 2009 9:04 pm

It seems like your point has somehow become an anti-ANET rant, which is unfortunate.

Having a photo published in a magazine means nothing to our acceptance criteria, and vice-versa.

I doubt there are very few, if any, photographers who upload photos just to "be popular on a.net." Those photographers who enjoy success, either through respect from their peers or elevated hit counts, do so by delivering the goods day in and day out.
 
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Kukkudrill
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RE: Sending Photos To Airways Magazine... And Others

Mon Dec 07, 2009 11:20 pm



Quoting AndyEastMids (Reply 22):
The problems with a.net are firstly, we all know that 1024 pixels can disguise a multitude of sins that become more evident in high-res images, that 1024 pixels aren't enough for a full page spread, and thus that when an editor gets the a high-res it might not be useable. Secondly, editors have to deal with with individual photographers who either might not respond to an image request in a timely matter, or might want to hold out and negotiate individual deals.

Magazines go to known-libraries and known-regular-photographers for good reasons... Much easier - in many cases - to go to a single reliable source, with one point of contact, one person to deal with, and pre-knowledge that ALL of the images are immediately available high-res/high-quality.

Spot on.
Make the most of the available light ... a lesson of photography that applies to life
 
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cpd
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RE: Sending Photos To Airways Magazine... And Others

Tue Dec 08, 2009 2:02 am

Quoting Lexy (Reply 20):
Perhaps, but if the "non-ATI" photogs work is better



Quoting Fly-K (Reply 19):

No doubt they are successful, but this had led to a massive reduction of non-ATI photogs' chances to get published.

It's about fostering good relationships with the editors of the magazines. Sometimes, if you know the editor - it can make a world of difference and cut out the ATI's and similar organisations. The ones I know of don't use the ATI's of the world, they take their own photos, or use those of regular, trusted contributors who are also close friends.

[Edited 2009-12-07 18:13:26 by cpd]
 
NicolasRubio
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RE: Sending Photos To Airways Magazine... And Others

Tue Dec 08, 2009 3:34 am



Quoting Clickhappy (Reply 29):
Would you rather have a $100 note in your pocket from an image you sold, or a media flight on an A380? Know what I mean?

Royal has got a VERY interesting point there!

I, for example, started out the way he mentioned. Some time later I was invited to be the official photographer of AR's last commercial B737-200 flight after 40 years of ops. How much is that worth? To me, it is PRICELESS. Let alone the doors that gig opened to me...
Gripped 7D + Sigma 10-20mm + 17-40L + 50mm f/1.8 II + 70-200mm f/4L IS + EF 400mm f/5.6L + 580EX II
 
JakTrax
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RE: Sending Photos To Airways Magazine... And Others

Tue Dec 08, 2009 7:48 am

MIAMIx707,

I'm glad you appreciate my right to an opinion here but you seem ticked-off because, in the perhaps limited time you've been here, people haven't recognised you as 'the cream' and told you how wonderful you are. Similarly, the magazines have not done so either and since then you've quickly developed a chip on your shoulder. Posts like this aren't going to help make you popular.

If you don't like what's here you have two options - one is stay; the other I'm sure you can guess.....

The site can never have everything and I myself have many a hidden gem (many on film/slide) not (yet?) featured here. In the main this site is numero uno when it comes to folks hunting down aircraft, regardless of how rare they may be.

Again you've basically slated others' work and told us how inferior it is so it's perhaps high time you showed us your collection?

While I agree with you that there are many great photog's who choose not to display their work here if you are going to be critical you need to be prepared to put forward your own images for scrutiny.

Oh, and for God's sake let's not lock this thread because of differing opinions!

Karl
 
soon7x7
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RE: Sending Photos To Airways Magazine... And Others

Tue Dec 08, 2009 11:08 am

Michael, Pubs will accept any image from anyone, even if the quality is questionable if it is relevant to their intended article. Some pubs pay better than others as indicated...the higher paying ones expect better regular work consistently from its providers. Just because you have a kick butt image won't generate interest to them unless it plays well with their articles...however that is not to say in a few issues they wouldn't find a spot for it. It's kind of a crap shoot and in my opinion none of them pay what is deserved...Unfortunetely since digitals, photographers are a dime a dozen and they know it...If you recall USAirways flight 1549, the money shot was a still frame from a security monitor!...I have since made it a point to always have a camera with me at all times so I recently purchased a coolpix 10 mp pocket rocket just in case I don't have my full quiver with me...pubs want "Breaking News" images...which in our business means broken airplanes, new equipment, new airline start ups. It's sort of a chase game and very expensive...since 9/11 good contacts are hard to come by as no one wants the responsibilty...however that is not to say it can't be done. Reminds me of my early days of surfing...waste more gas and time driving from one spot to the next thinking the other spot will be breaking better only to realize that last spot, 1 hour ago was much better, but now the wind has kicked up and all the surf sucks! If you want to be a contributor you should select the issues you would like to see your work in and keep sending...eventually you will have the $$ shot they'll need.  camera   thumbsup 
 
INNflight
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RE: Sending Photos To Airways Magazine... And Othe

Tue Dec 08, 2009 1:17 pm



Quoting MIAMIx707 (Reply 30):
If that's your goal, be popular on a.net and have everyone tell you how great photoshopped, and artificial looking digital pics can come out, but that's not everyone's goal either.



Quoting MIAMIx707 (Reply 30):
Not if they saturate the market

Oh blaaaah, really!

Swim or drown. Your choice.

And just for the sake of the argument, digital is the current technology, in all formats, so go get off your uber-high slideshooter horse.
Jet Visuals
 
Lexy
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RE: Sending Photos To Airways Magazine... And Others

Tue Dec 08, 2009 3:25 pm



Quoting Soon7x7 (Reply 36):
Michael, Pubs will accept any image from anyone, even if the quality is questionable if it is relevant to their intended article. Some pubs pay better than others as indicated...the higher paying ones expect better regular work consistently from its providers. Just because you have a kick butt image won't generate interest to them unless it plays well with their articles...however that is not to say in a few issues they wouldn't find a spot for it. It's kind of a crap shoot and in my opinion none of them pay what is deserved...Unfortunetely since digitals, photographers are a dime a dozen and they know it...If you recall USAirways flight 1549, the money shot was a still frame from a security monitor!...I have since made it a point to always have a camera with me at all times so I recently purchased a coolpix 10 mp pocket rocket just in case I don't have my full quiver with me...pubs want "Breaking News" images...which in our business means broken airplanes, new equipment, new airline start ups. It's sort of a chase game and very expensive...since 9/11 good contacts are hard to come by as no one wants the responsibilty...however that is not to say it can't be done. Reminds me of my early days of surfing...waste more gas and time driving from one spot to the next thinking the other spot will be breaking better only to realize that last spot, 1 hour ago was much better, but now the wind has kicked up and all the surf sucks! If you want to be a contributor you should select the issues you would like to see your work in and keep sending...eventually you will have the $$ shot they'll need.

Are you addressing me? If so, I agree! In many cases, especially those that are newsworthy, it doesn't matter who it is or what it was shot with. They will take what they can get no doubt! But I am talking about "Feature Articles" and "Subject Specific" in regards to airlines, airplane models, parts of the airplane, etc.
Nashville, Tennessee KBNA
 
EMA747
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RE: Sending Photos To Airways Magazine... And Others

Tue Dec 08, 2009 4:51 pm



Quoting NicolasRubio (Reply 34):

Quoting Clickhappy (Reply 29):
Would you rather have a $100 note in your pocket from an image you sold, or a media flight on an A380? Know what I mean?

Royal has got a VERY interesting point there!

I, for example, started out the way he mentioned. Some time later I was invited to be the official photographer of AR's last commercial B737-200 flight after 40 years of ops. How much is that worth? To me, it is PRICELESS. Let alone the doors that gig opened to me...

There must be only a tiny ammount of avaiton photographers that actually make a living off their work so money is a bad reason to do this hobby. For me it's the possibilities the hobby holds that makes me keep doing it. The possibility of maybe in the future to go on planes/airside etc, places that the public cannot acccess and also to meet new people is what appeals.
Royal's point is very good. The $100 note will buy you a few more beers but the memories of going to a special location or plane will last much longer.

(I say all this despite never having sold any images, or got airside or anything like that. I can always hope....)

Andy S
Failing doesn’t make you a failure. Giving up and refusing to try again does!
 
JakTrax
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RE: Sending Photos To Airways Magazine... And Others

Tue Dec 08, 2009 6:02 pm

I think very few here do if for money but by the same token I'm sure the majority find it satisfying making a sale. Anything I do earn goes straight back into the 'hobby pot' - and let's face it, this hobby is expensive and I bet we're all grateful for a helping hand here and there!

The money is handy but like you say Andy with the advent of digital it's so hard to make even half-a-living out of it! For me it's about the aviation and the (strange) love of sitting freezing my a**e off in a field somewhere! Then of course the getting home bit and looking at the reward!

I remember spending £45 on petrol to go from Stoke all the way to Southend for the Qantas 707-138. An hour and I was done, and the funny thing was that I thought I was nearly home at LHR, such is the distance!!

Karl
 
Lexy
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RE: Sending Photos To Airways Magazine... And Others

Tue Dec 08, 2009 6:29 pm



Quoting EMA747 (Reply 39):
(I say all this despite never having sold any images, or got airside or anything like that. I can always hope....)

With your positive outlook and attitude, your time out on the ramp will come soon enough! I had to learn the hard way to be humble and be quiet about things. You seem to have the drive, passion, and desire to see through to make you dreams come true. Be patient and your time will come!
Nashville, Tennessee KBNA
 
JakTrax
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RE: Sending Photos To Airways Magazine... And Others

Tue Dec 08, 2009 10:53 pm

Getting airside access is about making contacts and using exactly the right ingredients when speaking to exactly the right people. I'm personally a big talker with a very bubbly personality and this often (not always) is a strong foothold from which to start negotiations. People often actually admire a 'stayer' - someone who keeps politely pestering until they (the 'opposition') get fed up and say yes!

I tried to get ramp access at Riga, Latvia and they basically told me to ****-off! I asked again and I got the same answer. I asked a third time - same answer. Fourth time - success!

It's a fine balance between hinting at your existence, persisting, being polite and not giving up. Don't over-do it but don't undersell yourself. Most importantly, don't lie about credentials - exaggerate a bit if necessary but always maintain the basic truth.

Karl
 
chrisair
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RE: Sending Photos To Airways Magazine... And Others

Tue Dec 08, 2009 11:49 pm



Quoting Lexy (Reply 9):
I even flew to ROW from BNA for this!

Does the magazine pay your expenses for trips like these, in addition to a day (or 2x day) rate?

For anyone wondering what the best way to get consistent ramp access: doughnuts, coffee and booze for your contact and your contact's coworkers. Free food (and booze) goes a long way to "greasing the wheels." No cheap booze either.
 
Lexy
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RE: Sending Photos To Airways Magazine... And Others

Wed Dec 09, 2009 12:55 am

Quoting Chrisair (Reply 43):

Does the magazine pay your expenses for trips like these, in addition to a day (or 2x day) rate?

No. I purchased my own tickets because I am not a Staff Photographer for them. I am a Contributing Photographer for Key Publishing though, but that doesn't cover travel cost. I received compensation for my efforts and the picture I was able to supply them with for the July, 2009 issue of Airliner World Magazine about the Lockheed Tristar. The museum was also very kind towards me as well. To top it off, I was able to provide them with important info regarding the status and condition of the airplane.

Overall, the trip didn't cost much money at all because it was on WN and their prices were really nice at the time I originally booked.

[Edited 2009-12-08 16:57:36 by lexy]
Nashville, Tennessee KBNA
 
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EGTESkyGod
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RE: Sending Photos To Airways Magazine... And Others

Wed Dec 09, 2009 5:07 am

Is anyone else still waiting to see the images MIAMIx707 is talking about? I, myself, am also looking to one day have my photos published and have already had one question answered, and that is about the higher resolution images... The other question I have is "What makes these pictures MIAMIx707 talks about so great and why can't we see them?"

I suspect that now when (or if) he posts them people will be looking extra hard for something to critique him on due to this attitude he has taken. MIAMIx707, I hope they're good ones... Can we please see them?

Edit: The moment I posted this I received a landmark email... my 10th shot accepted on A.net. Still a loooooong way to go for me though.

[Edited 2009-12-08 21:09:31]
I came, I saw, I Concorde! RIP Michael Jackson
 
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cpd
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RE: Sending Photos To Airways Magazine... And Others

Wed Dec 09, 2009 5:08 am



Quoting JakTrax (Reply 40):
I remember spending £45 on petrol to go from Stoke all the way to Southend for the Qantas 707-138.

I didn't photograph that, but did better than that - I got to know the flight engineers on board it.  Smile Really, really cool people to know and I truly admired their enthusiasm and love of that beautiful old plane.

Anyone who does that has my absolute and complete respect. I took photos for the love of planes, and for the love of taking photos - anything is else is secondary to that. If I get access to some opportunities that I wouldn't otherwise get, then that's what I like. Sometimes, things other than money are worth much more.
 
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EGTESkyGod
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RE: Sending Photos To Airways Magazine... And Others

Wed Dec 09, 2009 5:11 am



Quoting Cpd (Reply 46):
I took photos for the love of planes, and for the love of taking photos - anything is else is secondary to that. If I get access to some opportunities that I wouldn't otherwise get, then that's what I like. Sometimes, things other than money are worth much more.

Couldn't have put it better.
I came, I saw, I Concorde! RIP Michael Jackson
 
soon7x7
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RE: Sending Photos To Airways Magazine... And Others

Wed Dec 09, 2009 5:12 am



Quoting INNflight (Reply 37):

Nothing wrong with celluloid!...When you shoot for a living, film or digital is irrelevant unless your strictly photojournalism...I'm still using a Hasselblad as a direct request from some of my clients as they don't like digital results and I agree with them...film has better lattitude, digital button pushing in the post process is not photography, it's button pushing...it's a time consuming process and a pain....but it is a necessary evil. In the case of magazine publishing, digital is ideal as the quality of magazines hardly justifies medium or large format film types and the current resolution far more than enough for cover shots. But from the perspective of aviation photography being a hobby, some people just like film and their is nothing wrong with that...j
 
INNflight
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RE: Sending Photos To Airways Magazine... And Others

Wed Dec 09, 2009 8:52 am



Quoting Soon7x7 (Reply 48):
some people just like film and their is nothing wrong with that

I completely accept that mate, but I don't get his attitude towards anything digital just for the sake of it.
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