compussr
Topic Author
Posts: 40
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2009 4:38 pm

Level

Thu Mar 18, 2010 4:38 am

I saw this photo on the frontpage and initially I thought that was quite a big turn. But after seeing the horizon and PFD in a larger version, it seems like the shot is not leveled with neither the horizon nor the cockpit. Camera's position is making the turn seem steeper than it really is.


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Photo © JPC van Heijst - AirTeamImages



27.89 degrees CCW align to the cockpit
11.49 degrees CCW aligh to the horizon

So i'm curious to know why it was accepted?

http://www.airliners.net/faq/rejection_reasons.php#level

[Edited 2010-03-17 22:37:58]
 
Stealthz
Posts: 5546
Joined: Wed Feb 02, 2005 11:43 am

RE: Level

Thu Mar 18, 2010 5:10 am

compussr,
Be prepared for a level of flaming as 2nd guessing the screeners is frowned on here, email to screeners@airliners.net is much preferred if you see something in need of correcting.*

Having said that I tend to agree with your question and quite frankly having downloaded and re leveled the image I much prefer it presented more realistically than shown here, works better as an image as well IMO

Regards

*Not a policy or (convention) I am totally in favour of, I think as long as discussion is kept polite and constructive It should be allowed.. encouraged even.
If your camera sends text messages, that could explain why your photos are rubbish!
 
dl767captain
Posts: 1206
Joined: Wed Mar 07, 2007 8:51 am

RE: Level

Thu Mar 18, 2010 5:20 am

I think it was more a personal decision to let it through, the camera is what's level the plane is turning, imo it would be weird if you turned the camera to match. I like it, it conveys the degree at which the plane is banking. I think in this situation it works fine, level would be applied to my recent upload (which i forgot to level) and the tower looked like it was leaning to the left
 
FX772LRF
Posts: 562
Joined: Thu Apr 02, 2009 4:07 am

RE: Level

Thu Mar 18, 2010 2:25 pm

Quoting dl767captain (Reply 2):
I think it was more a personal decision to let it through, the camera is what's level the plane is turning, imo it would be weird if you turned the camera to match. I like it, it conveys the degree at which the plane is banking. I think in this situation it works fine, level would be applied to my recent upload (which i forgot to level) and the tower looked like it was leaning to the left

The camera is nor level, nor banked to the aircraft. This means that the angle that is indicated by looking at the picture - about 20-30º right bank - is not the same as the angle reflected in the PFD which looks to be about 10º right bank.

I do think it's a bit weird that this photo was let through, with the plane nor horizon being level. I believe that this is an easy fix - I like the shot personally - it'd just be a matter of leveling and resubmitting.

-Noah   
Cleared to IAH via CLL 076 radial/BAZBL/RIICE3, up to 3k, 7k in 10, departure on 134.3, squawk 4676, Colgan 9581.
 
crewchief32
Posts: 413
Joined: Wed Dec 20, 2000 3:16 am

RE: Level

Thu Mar 18, 2010 2:37 pm

Quoting compussr (Thread starter):
So i'm curious to know why it was accepted?

Well, there are Rules and there are rules, but if one belongs to the A..-team,...........,didn't you know ??
           
 
beechcraft
Posts: 731
Joined: Sun Nov 16, 2003 2:10 am

RE: Level

Thu Mar 18, 2010 3:12 pm

Quoting crewchief32 (Reply 4):
Well, there are Rules and there are rules, but if one belongs to the A..-team,...........,didn't you know ??

Oh, please.....
That's it! You people have stood in my way long enough. I'm going to clown college!
 
JakTrax
Posts: 4635
Joined: Thu Jun 30, 2005 3:30 am

RE: Level

Thu Mar 18, 2010 4:11 pm

Quoting stealthz (Reply 1):
email to screeners@airliners.net is much preferred if you see something in need of correcting

Really? I was replied to very rudely when I tried this.

Karl
 
User avatar
clickhappy
Posts: 9042
Joined: Thu Sep 13, 2001 12:10 pm

RE: Level

Thu Mar 18, 2010 4:25 pm

The screening crew have always made exceptions for inflight cockpit shots that are unlevel.

Here are a few random samples:

http://www.airliners.net/photo/North...Airlines/Boeing-757-251/1066120/L/

http://www.airliners.net/photo/Param...aer-ERJ-170-200LR-175LR/1066004/L/

http://www.airliners.net/photo/USA--...ockheed-C-130T-Hercules/0961403/L/

http://www.airliners.net/photo/Polan.../Lockheed-Martin-F-16DJ/1289383/L/

For those of you who have never been fortunate enough to enjoy a jumpseat ride, it isn't easy to hold a camera level while you are banking.

I will request that this thread be locked. If anyone needs further clarification please feel free to email us.
 
Silver1SWA
Crew
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RE: Level

Thu Mar 18, 2010 5:07 pm

Royal,

I'm surprised that rule hasn't evolved over time with the other standards here. Normally posting examples that are a few years old doesn't work because older shots are not up to current standards.

The shot in question is nice. I'm not bothered by it's acceptance. I understand it's difficult to pull off but maybe tightening up the rule will make the photogs more conscious of their leveling references on future attempts.
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
unattendedbag
Posts: 2154
Joined: Wed Oct 08, 2003 10:35 pm

RE: Level

Thu Mar 18, 2010 5:12 pm

Quoting compussr (Thread starter):
So i'm curious to know why it was accepted?

http://www.airliners.net/faq/rejecti...level

From the above link:

"In this image both the horizon and the cockpit are unlevel. This would be rejected for LEVEL because we require that either the horizon is level or the cockpit is level. In this image you would either need to apply counter clockwise rotation to level the horizon or clockwise rotation to level the cockpit.
Slower traffic, keep right
 
unattendedbag
Posts: 2154
Joined: Wed Oct 08, 2003 10:35 pm

RE: Level

Thu Mar 18, 2010 5:15 pm

Quoting clickhappy (Reply 7):
For those of you who have never been fortunate enough to enjoy a jumpseat ride, it isn't easy to hold a camera level while you are banking.

I thought that that was what editing software was for, to add the ability to level the photo after the shot was taken. The original photo is not leveled to add false effect on the subject. no?

[Edited 2010-03-18 10:17:45]
Slower traffic, keep right
 
User avatar
clickhappy
Posts: 9042
Joined: Thu Sep 13, 2001 12:10 pm

RE: Level

Thu Mar 18, 2010 5:36 pm

Sometimes it is not possible to get a level shot.

Should we have rejected these gems?


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Photo © Berry Vissers - Aero Image
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Photo © Belgium Air Force Sgt. Dirk Voortmans


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Photo © Mark Holtzman
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Photo © Tomas Sousek


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Photo © Mariusz Adamski
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Photo © Rob Tabor



Sometimes common sense trumps the rules.
 
JakTrax
Posts: 4635
Joined: Thu Jun 30, 2005 3:30 am

RE: Level

Thu Mar 18, 2010 5:38 pm

I'm not agreeing with crewchief32 here but why do a lot of these 'should it have been accepted?' discussions concern ATI images?

Karl
 
Silver1SWA
Crew
Posts: 4455
Joined: Wed Mar 10, 2004 6:11 pm

RE: Level

Thu Mar 18, 2010 5:51 pm

Quoting clickhappy (Reply 11):
Should we have rejected these gems?

Well...only cuz you asked...some of those seem to be level or damn close to level with the subject, but I see your point. IMO it's obvious the B-2 shot should have been uploaded with 90 degrees CCW rotation to be level, but whatever.

The major difference IMO is that the image being questioned is a standard cockpit shot and not in the same league as the others. But I see your point and it's understandable. Afterall, outside the box screening has been something we have all wished for. Always nice to see it in practice.

[Edited 2010-03-18 10:56:16]
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
EZEIZA
Posts: 4421
Joined: Sat Aug 21, 2004 12:09 am

RE: Level

Thu Mar 18, 2010 5:51 pm

Quoting JakTrax (Reply 12):
I'm not agreeing with crewchief32 here but why do a lot of these 'should it have been accepted?' discussions concern ATI images?

don't ask  

I am not going to criticize the cockpit shot, but for the record, i Like it and have no problem with it, but I have a felling it was not leveled on purpose.
Regarding the gems, they are completely different motives and can't be compared to cockpit pictures
Carp aunque ganes o pierdas ...
 
NIKV69
Posts: 10889
Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2004 4:27 am

RE: Level

Thu Mar 18, 2010 6:27 pm

I love this comment

Nice photo, but you clearly tilted your camera to the left to enhance the effect

Isn't that part of photography? I think a few of you here should consider the fact that tryting to slag photogs and to further propagate the A-Team photogs get whatever they want soundbyte is really really old. If anet is going to make decisions like this on type of shot I think it's fair. The object is to get people to look at aviation pics, not to cater to the photogs that can rarely get flight deck access.

Quoting Silver1SWA (Reply 8):
The shot in question is nice. I'm not bothered by it's acceptance. I understand it's difficult to pull off but maybe tightening up the rule will make the photogs more conscious of their leveling references on future attempts.

I can undertand your feeling Ryan, but sometimes the screeners make judgement calls. Is this a little excessive? Maybe but the plane is turning that direction and I don't feel the photog misled anyone. If they weren't turning on final and were flying level I think it would be a bit different.

Quoting JakTrax (Reply 12):
I'm not agreeing with crewchief32 here but why do a lot of these 'should it have been accepted?' discussions concern ATI images?

Professional jealousy.
Hey that guy with the private jet can bail us out! Why? HE CAN AFFORD IT!
 
compussr
Topic Author
Posts: 40
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2009 4:38 pm

RE: Level

Thu Mar 18, 2010 6:38 pm

Quoting clickhappy (Reply 11):
Should we have rejected these gems?

Absolutely not.

But there are 1,713 Boeing 737 cockpit shots.

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