vaustralie
Topic Author
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How To Get The Cockpit Final Approach Shot?

Sun Jul 18, 2010 3:15 am

Hi,
So I've just recently gotten into taking photos and I've noticed that there are a few cockpit and final approach shots on airliners.net .
My question is how do you get them? When I've been on mid-afternoon flights the cockpit door always remains closed until all passengers have disembarked, but when I was on the first flight out (6:05am), the cockpit door was open when we were fully on the ground. Is that the time to ask?
But also, what about when you want to get the final approach cockpit shot? How do you go about asking?
Thanks everyone  

[Edited 2010-07-17 20:22:33]
a346
 
Psych
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RE: How To Get The Cockpit Final Approach Shot?

Sun Jul 18, 2010 7:21 am

Welcome!

My understanding is that post-September 11th most airlines changed their regulations such that it would be an offence for any members of the public to enter the flightdeck whilst the aircraft was airborne and the engines fired up. I know for a fact that pilots in many airlines would get into serious trouble if they allowed people on to the flightdeck when flying - even their own friends. It would be a disciplinary offence.

My assumption now is that the only possibility for us mere mortals is to ask the question about being allowed up after the plane is safely on the ground and the engines have been shut down and at the end of a flight.

Hence I assume most of the photos we now see are by people who work for the airline. For those who don't fit that bill .......... they are probably doing something/have some arrangement that you and I cannot and/or should not do. I would be interested to know!

Paul
 
JRadier
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RE: How To Get The Cockpit Final Approach Shot?

Sun Jul 18, 2010 9:46 am

In general, forget about US, UK and Canadian airlines if you are just a member of the public. With other airlines, different rules can apply. Many will turn you away but there are airlines and crew members who are happy to have you on board. That way I have jumpseated countless of times both as a general passenger.

It is the trick of getting to know who does and who doesn't allow it, and how to present it. I will leave you to figure that out  .
For once you have tasted flight you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards, for there you have been and ther
 
soon7x7
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RE: How To Get The Cockpit Final Approach Shot?

Sun Jul 18, 2010 2:32 pm

Become a pilot...or marry one...g
 
teopilot
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RE: How To Get The Cockpit Final Approach Shot?

Tue Jul 20, 2010 3:13 pm

Quoting JRadier (Reply 2):
In general, forget about US, UK and Canadian airlines if you are just a member of the public. With other airlines, different rules can apply. Many will turn you away but there are airlines and crew members who are happy to have you on board. That way I have jumpseated countless of times both as a general passenger.

It is the trick of getting to know who does and who doesn't allow it, and how to present it. I will leave you to figure that out  .

oh, have you really been in cockpit during flight?!?!?
You are a lucky boy!!! ... and you just asked to the flight attendants during the flight, correct?

anyway... my experience is strictly limited to short cockpit visits, on ground, usually after landing... I just asked the permission before leaving the aircraft ( I always get off from the front door)
I've taken about 20/30 flights till now, and I always have been let to do some chatting with pilots in cockpit... only once I have been refused, but a cpt exam was in progress, so it was better not to disturb!  
before leaving, just ask if could take a shot... and you'll been satisfied!!!  

but now, can anyone tell me about how does things work in USA, UK, and Canada airlines? I mean, after landing, may you ask to visit the cockpit without any problem, or you'll be considered a terrorist? -.-"

Matteo

p.s.: I know, "visit the cockpit" does not sounds good at all, but I didn't know how to say it, sorry for that.
 
JRadier
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RE: How To Get The Cockpit Final Approach Shot?

Tue Jul 20, 2010 9:21 pm

Quoting teopilot (Reply 4):
oh, have you really been in cockpit during flight?!?!?
You are a lucky boy!!!

More than once. There is some (a lot of) luck involved, but you have to get them thinking your way as well. As with everything, think how you can help them give you access....

Quoting teopilot (Reply 4):
and you just asked to the flight attendants during the flight, correct?

I usually ask before the flight, during boarding.
For once you have tasted flight you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards, for there you have been and ther
 
PeterSpence
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RE: How To Get The Cockpit Final Approach Shot?

Wed Jul 21, 2010 10:38 pm

You will never get into a cockpit mid-flight, simple as that. No matter who you know, even if your Dad is the Captain, it won't happen to or from the United States of America.

Getting in before or after is a breeze, I get in on every flight. Check out my cockpit shots, you might like em.

JRadier is making that up, unless that's how they do it in the Netherlands only.

The only photos you will see on here mid-flight, on final or anything else up in the air are from members of the flight crew. Sergio Mota has heaps of great in-flight shots, final shots, etc. ... but he is a Flight Attendant.

Best wishes in getting access ... before or after only though.

Peter Spence
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teopilot
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RE: How To Get The Cockpit Final Approach Shot?

Thu Jul 22, 2010 6:46 am

Thank you all very much to have made me this situation more clear...  

After all, I'm thinking to fly in Netherlands... I might be very luck and enjoy a cockpit landing!! ahah

anyway,

Quoting JRadier (Reply 5):
More than once. There is some (a lot of) luck involved, but you have to get them thinking your way as well. As with everything, think how you can help them give you access....

I haven't got it so much... did you mean that you have to make them know that you are a flight enthusiast, a "wannabe" pilot ( just like me) or anything else?
 
JRadier
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RE: How To Get The Cockpit Final Approach Shot?

Sat Jul 24, 2010 2:44 am

Quoting PeterSpence (Reply 6):
JRadier is making that up, unless that's how they do it in the Netherlands only.

Peter,


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Jurgen Radier



I expect that an apology is forthcoming?

And before you ask, I have no connections to that airline nor was I working in the industry at that time. Like I said, forget it with US airlines, but the world is a whole lot bigger......

Jurgen
For once you have tasted flight you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards, for there you have been and ther
 
deaphen
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RE: How To Get The Cockpit Final Approach Shot?

Sat Jul 24, 2010 4:30 am

Quoting JRadier (Reply 8):
And before you ask, I have no connections to that airline nor was I working in the industry at that time. Like I said, forget it with US airlines, but the world is a whole lot bigger......

I wholeheartedly agree with you Jurgen, I have managed the same many times. After a while, it becomes easier but still getting into the cockpit is a hit and miss kind of situation, depends on many many things, especially the Captain.

I have been flamed earlier for saying that I have visited a cockpit of an A320 inflight in US airspace (in 2007). Its fine if people dont want to believe me. I am by no means saying its easy or alot of people allow it, but its silly to say that its impossible. Am i a threat to security? No..... and thats exactly what the pilots examine in their heads each time they have let me in. Things like my flight log, photographs in it, etc ,etc all make it a bit easier.

My best experience has been with KL pilots, they are undoubtedly the most proud and most supportive pilots around. If they dont let you in, they will take your camera and do cool things like this:

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e213/deaphen/IMG_3747.jpg

Pilots in Europe seem more tuned towards supporting our hobby and understand us and of course they can tell an enthusiast from a threat.

Just my 2 paise.

Nitin
I want every single airport and airplane in India to be on A.net!
 
INNflight
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RE: How To Get The Cockpit Final Approach Shot?

Sat Jul 24, 2010 7:04 am

Quoting PeterSpence (Reply 6):
JRadier is making that up, unless that's how they do it in the Netherlands only.

"They don't do it in the US, so they certainly can't do it in any other part of the world...."

Right?
Jet Visuals
 
TupolevTu154
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RE: How To Get The Cockpit Final Approach Shot?

Mon Jul 26, 2010 4:56 pm

Oh how I love working as aircrew now  
 
sluger020889
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RE: How To Get The Cockpit Final Approach Shot?

Tue Jul 27, 2010 2:35 am

Quoting PeterSpence (Reply 6):
JRadier is making that up, unless that's how they do it in the Netherlands only.

I guess that's how they do it in the Netherlands huh?

Jurgen, sweet shot man. Hope all is well!

Joey
I would love to fly a cargo plane full of rubber dog shit out of Hong Kong!
 
PeterSpence
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RE: How To Get The Cockpit Final Approach Shot?

Tue Jul 27, 2010 11:10 pm

Yea, you all can continue to post and repost what I said, still doesn't change it ... but, I'll add that "unless that's how they do it in a select few countries around the world" ... For all of you that are such pros at getting into the cockpit midflight, show me your shots! Talk is easy on a forum but actually coming thru on your words is different.

And to Jurgen, no sir, no apology here. Sorry mate. You've got that 1 shot from a small airline that I've never heard of so I'd imagine that's quite easy. I refer to big airlines, e.g., British Airways, Japan Airlines, Korean Airlines, Emirates, Singapore, Qantas, Lufthansa, KLM, American, Air Canada ... I think you get the point.

Quoting deaphen (Reply 9):
I have been flamed earlier for saying that I have visited a cockpit of an A320 inflight in US airspace (in 2007). Its fine if people dont want to believe me. I am by no means saying its easy or alot of people allow it, but its silly to say that its impossible. Am i a threat to security? No..... and thats exactly what the pilots examine in their heads each time they have let me in. Things like my flight log, photographs in it, etc ,etc all make it a bit easier.

I definitely know you wouldn't get into an A320 cockpit in 2007 in the USA, so I see why you were "flamed". And yea, I'm no security threat either, a young guy with a Pilots license who will one day be up there myself ... But, those are the rules set by the airlines, not by the crew. I've had great conversations with many Pilots before we are even in the aircraft, laughing and having a great time and they've always said "I'd love to let you up inflight but we could lose our jobs if the superiors found out", so that's the reason. If it were based off of personal decisions, I would have 100+ inflight cockpit shots because I get along with every Pilot. But, the next best thing is a shot taken before or afterward and I've got plenty of those.

So, again, I stand by what I said. Yea, Jurgen, you've got 1 inflight shot. Show me some more, on a MAJOR airline that anybody from any land would recognize and I'll give some credibility to your words.

Much love.

Peter Spence
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jmx53
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RE: How To Get The Cockpit Final Approach Shot?

Tue Jul 27, 2010 11:18 pm

Anyone know the process "Just Planes Videos" goes through to do their World Air Routes series?

Also, with the flight deck photos taken during short final, wouldn't the sound of the camera and/or flash be a distraction to the flight crew when their concentration is most needed?

Generally find flight crews very friendly and willing to chat after plane parked and they open the flight deck door. Had not thought of giving camera to flight crew before flight and asking them to take en-route photos...are there pilots out there that would do this for passengers that ask nicely, or would there be a regulation against this?

Myself have only been able to visit flight deck of Singapore 742s...this was enroute over Pacific during early 1980s as a minor. Also remember being on commuter flights years ago where only a curtain (usually open) separated passenger cabin from flight deck.
 
JRadier
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RE: How To Get The Cockpit Final Approach Shot?

Wed Jul 28, 2010 4:10 am

Quoting peterspence (Reply 13):

So, again, I stand by what I said. Yea, Jurgen, you've got 1 inflight shot. Show me some more, on a MAJOR airline that anybody from any land would recognize and I'll give some credibility to your words.

Peter,

It is human to make mistakes and not know things, I'm guilty of that as well. Making a claim that I'm making something up is a serious one, but hey, if those are your words... However, in my opinion it shows character when you are able to say that you made a mistake.

I showed you that you were wrong, but you now changed the rules... Why I don't know, because Welcome Air is bound my the same regulations as the majors. Also your list of majors include some where I already said it was virtually impossible (BA, American, Air Canada), but I have flown others on your list. I do not have photo's online nor am I able to upload them at this moment. For that you will have to do with some photo's of Deaphen, who indicated that he has flown jumpseat with KLM before (see above).


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Nitin Sarin - AirTeamImages
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Nitin Sarin - AirTeamImages



Is that enough proof that possibilities exist outside of the US?

Jurgen
For once you have tasted flight you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards, for there you have been and ther
 
INNflight
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RE: How To Get The Cockpit Final Approach Shot?

Thu Jul 29, 2010 11:20 am

Quoting peterspence (Reply 13):
For all of you that are such pros at getting into the cockpit midflight, show me your shots! Talk is easy on a forum but actually coming thru on your words is different
Quoting peterspence (Reply 13):
because I get along with every Pilot.

Peter Spence...

You're a new kid around the block here that no one knows, you asked a question, and got an answer. Yet you feel like you're a know-it-all kind of guy (google hazardous attitudes for pilots sometime) and say the credibility of a long-time, well-respected photographer on here is flawed.

I don't even care to show my jumpseat photos, because it seems that would be a waste of time. Think what you want and stop wasting people's time.

Lots of love
Jet Visuals
 
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cpd
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RE: How To Get The Cockpit Final Approach Shot?

Fri Jul 30, 2010 2:42 am

Flo has echoed my thoughts on the matter quite well.

Peter Spence: You haven't been around here nearly as long as JRadier, so a bit of respect might be in order.

Quoting vaustralie (Thread starter):
Is that the time to ask?

The time to ask is before the flight, before you even get on the plane - and maybe take along some high quality promotional prints as free handouts along with your business card.

It's probably better to do it with predictable airlines that you know, and especially - with staff who you know. And it's also good to ask out of sight of the regular passengers. Don't put the staff in an unacceptable situation.

There are certain airlines where I would never ask - and certain countries where I'd never ask. Some countries and the general public in those countries still see photographers as terrorists.
 
PeterSpence
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RE: How To Get The Cockpit Final Approach Shot?

Fri Jul 30, 2010 4:12 am

My good mate, Jurgen ... so you're looking for me to say that possibilties exist outside the US? I'll repeat what I've already said: Yes, in a select few countries, they do (perhaps). With that said, I just want to point out your wording on your spectacularly great, worthy of glory and honor in-flight cockpit shot ... you say "A special thanks goes out to H. for arranging this flight!" .... that right there tells me this was something previously arranged, planned and made possible by a connection. This proves the point I've been trying to get at (but haven't done a good job doing). You cannot just walk into an aircraft for your flight, not knowing any of the crew and ask the Captain to get in the cockpit midflight. That part of it does not happen, it just doesn't. But, if you have it arranged by H. or whoever else, yes, it is most definitely possible, even in the United States of America!

So, once again, yes, prearranged, planned, cleared and set up inflight cockpit shots can happen anywhere in the world, you are right about that! The right "connections" are always a plus in life!

On to the cool guy with 3655 posts ...

Quoting INNflight (Reply 16):
Peter Spence...

You're a new kid around the block here that no one knows, you asked a question, and got an answer. Yet you feel like you're a know-it-all kind of guy (google hazardous attitudes for pilots sometime) and say the credibility of a long-time, well-respected photographer on here is flawed.

First, I'll start by saying ... you are an absolute LEGEND for having that many posts! That's something you should put on your resume one day. Sorry mate, I don't spend my life in forums as you do. This right here is a waste but it's so much fun to see how serious you take forum posting so I just had to reply. I asked no question, but I did receive a reply when I stated my personal opinion, let's get that part right. Don't be so afraid to have your ideas challenged by another. Always strive to view others opinions too. However, let's be clear budddy. Forum posting has nothing to do with flying an aircraft. I am a smart Pilot, but definitely not a "know it all" ... I'm always trying to learn more and always contributing my ability to my gracious Instructor: without her, I don't know anything about flying. I don't mind having my ideas challenged (and possibly corrected) by her. But, you are definitely a forum know-it-all based off your comments to me! You feel you know all about forum posting and only want it your way. But, you're legendary ... Seriously, I can't wait to be like you with nearly 4K posts, I long for that day!!!!! Perhaps you should apply to be a Moderator? Then, you can be REALLY cool!

Quoting cpd (Reply 17):
Flo has echoed my thoughts on the matter quite well.

Peter Spence: You haven't been around here nearly as long as JRadier, so a bit of respect might be in order.

You're absolutely right ... JRadier is a forum master, I realize that. So, my sincerest apologies for ever trying to enter his and INNFlight's forum territory. They both are wonderful people who share the joy of such a wonderful hobby. I sincerely thank them both for correcting my ways, such a life lesson they have taught me. If only we had more forum posters with the grace they both have, this world would be a better place.

Well, folks, this has been a pleasure ... I'm gonna take my "new kid on the block" self out of the forum world and get back to doing what I do best. You guys stay safe now, don't hurt yourselves in these forums. I hope I didn't challenge your forum manhood too much.

With greatest joy and apologetic spirit,

The New Kid on The Block
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RE: How To Get The Cockpit Final Approach Shot?

Fri Jul 30, 2010 5:17 am

Quoting PeterSpence (Reply 18):
My good mate, Jurgen ... so you're looking for me to say that possibilties exist outside the US? I'll repeat what I've already said: Yes, in a select few countries, they do (perhaps). With that said, I just want to point out your wording on your spectacularly great, worthy of glory and honor in-flight cockpit shot ... you say "A special thanks goes out to H. for arranging this flight!" .... that right there tells me this was something previously arranged, planned and made possible by a connection. This proves the point I've been trying to get at (but haven't done a good job doing). You cannot just walk into an aircraft for your flight, not knowing any of the crew and ask the Captain to get in the cockpit midflight. That part of it does not happen, it just doesn't. But, if you have it arranged by H. or whoever else, yes, it is most definitely possible, even in the United States of America!

So, once again, yes, prearranged, planned, cleared and set up inflight cockpit shots can happen anywhere in the world, you are right about that! The right "connections" are always a plus in life!

On to the cool guy with 3655 posts ...

Quoting INNflight (Reply 16):
Peter Spence...

You're a new kid around the block here that no one knows, you asked a question, and got an answer. Yet you feel like you're a know-it-all kind of guy (google hazardous attitudes for pilots sometime) and say the credibility of a long-time, well-respected photographer on here is flawed.

First, I'll start by saying ... you are an absolute LEGEND for having that many posts! That's something you should put on your resume one day. Sorry mate, I don't spend my life in forums as you do. This right here is a waste but it's so much fun to see how serious you take forum posting so I just had to reply. I asked no question, but I did receive a reply when I stated my personal opinion, let's get that part right. Don't be so afraid to have your ideas challenged by another. Always strive to view others opinions too. However, let's be clear budddy. Forum posting has nothing to do with flying an aircraft. I am a smart Pilot, but definitely not a "know it all" ... I'm always trying to learn more and always contributing my ability to my gracious Instructor: without her, I don't know anything about flying. I don't mind having my ideas challenged (and possibly corrected) by her. But, you are definitely a forum know-it-all based off your comments to me! You feel you know all about forum posting and only want it your way. But, you're legendary ... Seriously, I can't wait to be like you with nearly 4K posts, I long for that day!!!!! Perhaps you should apply to be a Moderator? Then, you can be REALLY cool!

Quoting cpd (Reply 17):
Flo has echoed my thoughts on the matter quite well.

Peter Spence: You haven't been around here nearly as long as JRadier, so a bit of respect might be in order.

You're absolutely right ... JRadier is a forum master, I realize that. So, my sincerest apologies for ever trying to enter his and INNFlight's forum territory. They both are wonderful people who share the joy of such a wonderful hobby. I sincerely thank them both for correcting my ways, such a life lesson they have taught me. If only we had more forum posters with the grace they both have, this world would be a better place.

Well, folks, this has been a pleasure ... I'm gonna take my "new kid on the block" self out of the forum world and get back to doing what I do best. You guys stay safe now, don't hurt yourselves in these forums. I hope I didn't challenge your forum manhood too much.

With greatest joy and apologetic spirit,

The New Kid on The Block

Ooh, you stuck it to 'em good.   

-Noah.   
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cpd
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RE: How To Get The Cockpit Final Approach Shot?

Fri Jul 30, 2010 6:14 am

Quoting PeterSpence (Reply 18):
But, you are definitely a forum know-it-all based off your comments to me!

That's quite a sad comment. Flo is anything but. He's one of the nicer people around here, and one of the best photographers here.
 
INNflight
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RE: How To Get The Cockpit Final Approach Shot?

Fri Jul 30, 2010 6:36 am

I think you're right, Peter. Seriously, it just doesn't happen.

Being a pilot must be nice, but I'm scared of heights. Always wanted to do that tho.
Maybe you could open a new thread and tell us internet monkeys about how it feels since you know so much about what it takes.

[Edited 2010-07-29 23:39:45]
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JRadier
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RE: How To Get The Cockpit Final Approach Shot?

Fri Jul 30, 2010 7:41 am

Peter,

I have been polite so far, and so have other posters. In that regard your recent post was uncalled for. To pay my respects to that, let me quote you:

Quoting PeterSpence (Reply 18):
I am a smart Pilot, but definitely not a "know it all" ...

Looking at your posts in this thread it is quite the opposite, you are a know it all! But whatever, you keep thinking that jumpseating without knowing anyone is not possible and I keep riding that jumpseat. Have fun with that!
For once you have tasted flight you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards, for there you have been and ther
 
EMA747
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RE: How To Get The Cockpit Final Approach Shot?

Fri Jul 30, 2010 2:12 pm

It's very easy to get in the cockpit on the groud. Done it with Lufthansa (A340), Swiss, Icelandair, Scandinavian, Ryanair. The Scandinavian captain was the nicest I have met and we had a long chat pre-flight. He said he always likes to be nice to enthusiasts as he is one himself. Towards the end of the chat I ask if there was any possibility of a junpseat. He said he was genuinely sorry that he could not allow it but that was only because the flight ending in London. If it had been to any other conutry apart from the UK he said a jumpseat would have been no problem at all and he even said he would have loved to have me there and chat some more in-flight.

Andy S
Failing doesn’t make you a failure. Giving up and refusing to try again does!
 
PeterSpence
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RE: How To Get The Cockpit Final Approach Shot?

Fri Jul 30, 2010 2:26 pm

Quoting INNflight (Reply 21):
Being a pilot must be nice, but I'm scared of heights. Always wanted to do that tho.
Maybe you could open a new thread and tell us internet monkeys about how it feels since you know so much about what it takes.

Another thing that I absolutely admire about you ... you're so funny! Wow, each comment from you gets more and more mature as we go on. I broght a logical conversation, sorry that was too much for you. (I just apologized.)

Quoting JRadier (Reply 22):
Peter,

I have been polite so far, and so have other posters. In that regard your recent post was uncalled for. To pay my respects to that, let me quote you:

Quoting PeterSpence (Reply 18):
I am a smart Pilot, but definitely not a "know it all" ...

Looking at your posts in this thread it is quite the opposite, you are a know it all! But whatever, you keep thinking that jumpseating without knowing anyone is not possible and I keep riding that jumpseat. Have fun with that!

Other posters have been polite, but I haven't? Please tell me where! If giving the person who originally started this some realistic advice about getting into a cockpit and then getting jumped on by you and your other forum buddies isn't polite, I'm not sure anything other than giving him the answer you want would have been. All I'm doing now is having fun with INNflight, he's really funny and really passionate about defending you, JRadier. You guys have a beautiful bond.

Yes, to repeat, definitely not a know it all ... but, it appears you know it all about "riding that jumpseat" all the time when us lowly folks just sit there looking it at, waiting for the day. You must be a pro. I'll again repeat: show me the pics! Oh yea, on an airline other than Welcome Air.

I rest my case. This is too much fun.

New Kid on The Block
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INNflight
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RE: How To Get The Cockpit Final Approach Shot?

Fri Jul 30, 2010 2:51 pm

Seriously, lets not go on. Talk about being a sky God with only a PPL.
Jet Visuals
 
PeterSpence
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RE: How To Get The Cockpit Final Approach Shot?

Fri Jul 30, 2010 2:54 pm

I know, right? Because this was all about being a Sky God ... I notice you have a hard time focusing on the actual topic (since this was not about being a Pilot at all), so, yes, let's not go on.

It's been a pleasure mate. Enjoy your day and sorry for the confusion.

Peter Spence
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spencer
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RE: How To Get The Cockpit Final Approach Shot?

Fri Jul 30, 2010 4:14 pm

Quoting jmx53 (Reply 14):
Anyone know the process "Just Planes Videos" goes through to do their World Air Routes series?

Can guess they have their work cut out for them too, but having done the flightdeck videos for years I'm sure they have a lot of contacts within the trade. That's not to say a good honest e-mail doesn't help them along the way. Like anything that I have ever done, there's always an e-mail trail a mile long, and it only takes one of the people in that trail to say no and the assignment is over before it ever started. At the end of the day everyone needs contacts and luck. Rules can and do get broken, no matter what country you're in.  
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RE: How To Get The Cockpit Final Approach Shot?

Fri Jul 30, 2010 5:51 pm

Since this thread has degenerated to a childish name-calling level, there seems little point in letting it continue.
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