teopilot
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Doubt About Asking Money For My Shots.

Thu Aug 26, 2010 9:41 am

Hello mates...

I have only 1 photo on the database, and I linked 4 photo of an AAL 767 in photo feedback before uploading, in order to know which adjustments I heve to do.

well, Today, I received an email from a guy, who was interested in my photos: he said he wanted to upload them on a russian website whose topic is spotting.
well, I asked him which photos is he interested in, and then I told him that I'd cooperate with him as much as possible to make that shots good looking at him ( but also I promised to work hard to get better results in general).

This is the first time I receive a request like that, and I'm very pleased, but I want to know if I may ask him some money for my photos. Practically: what would you do in this circumstance?

Finally, I don't know yet what kind of website he is talking about...

I asked him if he is disposed to offer me money for them... but I still ask you what's better to do in this case

Thank you so much in advance,
Matteo
 
ZakHH
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RE: Doubt About Asking Money For My Shots.

Thu Aug 26, 2010 9:45 am

He asked you if he can upload your shots to a Russian spotting website? Why would he want to do that?

Unless I'm missing something, this sounds like you will never see any money here. And personally, I would not agree to someone uploading my photos at some website, either.
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teopilot
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RE: Doubt About Asking Money For My Shots.

Thu Aug 26, 2010 9:53 am

Quoting ZakHH (Reply 1):
He asked you if he can upload your shots to a Russian spotting website? Why would he want to do that?

Unless I'm missing something, this sounds like you will never see any money here. And personally, I would not agree to someone uploading my photos at some website, either.

because then, maybe my photos could be palm off with their ones?
well, in case, I would demand him to write the source below the photo...

well... please explain me why do you think as you state earlier?
 
viv
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RE: Doubt About Asking Money For My Shots.

Thu Aug 26, 2010 10:08 am

I would advise you not to give your photos away without payment.
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ZakHH
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RE: Doubt About Asking Money For My Shots.

Thu Aug 26, 2010 10:21 am

Quoting teopilot (Reply 2):
ell... please explain me why do you think as you state earlier?

I have never heard of someone asking for permission to upload someone else's shots to a spotter website. It just does not make sense. I'd never do it. But that's just my 2 cents. If you are comfortable with it - it's your photos.
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JohnKrist
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RE: Doubt About Asking Money For My Shots.

Thu Aug 26, 2010 12:11 pm

Linking, yes, upload NO IMO
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derekf
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RE: Doubt About Asking Money For My Shots.

Thu Aug 26, 2010 2:46 pm

I wouldn't ask for money for photos uploaded to a non-commercial website.
If it is a business making money then you have a right to ask for remuneration. If someone just wants to put your photos on his website then by all means send them to him. What harm can it do? Just make sure you get credit for them.
If you are very concerned about your copyright and those who might steal your pictures then don't upload them to the internet at all.

Quoting ZakHH (Reply 4):
Quoting teopilot (Reply 2):
ell... please explain me why do you think as you state earlier?

I have never heard of someone asking for permission to upload someone else's shots to a spotter website. It just does not make sense. I'd never do it. But that's just my 2 cents. If you are comfortable with it - it's your photos.

Really? I get requests frequently asking if my photos can be used by spotters websites, modelling websites, enthusiasts websites etc., I don't have a problem with it at all. We are all in the same game aren't we?
Whatever.......
 
viv
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RE: Doubt About Asking Money For My Shots.

Thu Aug 26, 2010 2:51 pm

Quoting derekf (Reply 6):
We are all in the same game aren't we?

Nope.

Quoting derekf (Reply 6):
I wouldn't ask for money for photos uploaded to a non-commercial website.
If it is a business making money then you have a right to ask for remuneration.

One ALWAYS has the right to ask for remuneration.

Quoting derekf (Reply 6):
Just make sure you get credit for them.

Won't pay the bills...
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derekf
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RE: Doubt About Asking Money For My Shots.

Thu Aug 26, 2010 2:58 pm

So you would ask for money if someone wanted to use one of your photos on a non-commercial website?

How mercenary is that!

You upload them here though - how much do you charge airliners.net? They are commercially run after all.

Quoting viv (Reply 7):
Quoting derekf (Reply 6):
We are all in the same game aren't we?

Nope.

Clearly not - some of us still do it for the enjoyment and helping out others.....
Whatever.......
 
viv
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RE: Doubt About Asking Money For My Shots.

Thu Aug 26, 2010 3:13 pm

Quoting derekf (Reply 8):
So you would ask for money if someone wanted to use one of your photos on a non-commercial website?

It depends on the circumstances. I have given shots without charge to the RAF Benevolent Fund and for ATC training purposes.

But to an amateur spotter or enthusiast site? Never.
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derekf
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RE: Doubt About Asking Money For My Shots.

Thu Aug 26, 2010 3:19 pm

Quoting viv (Reply 9):
But to an amateur spotter or enthusiast site? Never.

But you upload them here without charge. This is a enthusiasts/spotters website after all.

Well, I'll continue to support and help fellow spotters/enthusiasts if others are too mean to do so.
Whatever.......
 
viv
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RE: Doubt About Asking Money For My Shots.

Thu Aug 26, 2010 3:20 pm

Quoting derekf (Reply 10):
Well, I'll continue to support and help fellow spotters/enthusiasts

You are free to do as you please, as am I.
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vikkyvik
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RE: Doubt About Asking Money For My Shots.

Thu Aug 26, 2010 6:09 pm

Quoting derekf (Reply 8):
So you would ask for money if someone wanted to use one of your photos on a non-commercial website?

How mercenary is that!

Not mercenary at all.

Think about it. Practically everything I buy is for non-commercial purposes. But I have to BUY it. I don't get it for free, because it costs something to produce it. If I don't like paying for it, I don't need to buy it.

Same thing with photos (or art, or music, or whatever). You're not required to charge for anything. But there's certainly nothing wrong with it.

Quoting derekf (Reply 8):
Clearly not - some of us still do it for the enjoyment and helping out others.....

That's hardly a measure of anything. Whether you do it for enjoyment or to make money (or BOTH, as is distinctly possible) doesn't make you a better or worse person.
I'm watching Jeopardy. The category is worst Madonna songs. "This one from 1987 is terrible".
 
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derekf
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RE: Doubt About Asking Money For My Shots.

Thu Aug 26, 2010 7:28 pm

I am more interested in why some don't want to give their images to even non-commercial enthusiast websites. I cannot see what harm it does but I can definitely see what good it might do. I'll do whatever I can to further the hobby and to promote interest in aircraft and photography. As far as I can see, that is a good thing.

To ask for money from non-profitmaking enthusiasts is mercenary and I'll bet not many pay - I don't blame them.
Whatever.......
 
teopilot
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RE: Doubt About Asking Money For My Shots.

Thu Aug 26, 2010 7:34 pm

hi folks!

I have got back home right now...

I found the answer in my mailbox.

He linked me a website ( I don't know if I can post here the link, because it's something like this website.)
If, I can, I'll post it...
anyway, he told me that registration is required, and you have to upload there photos, just like here, and your photos will have a watermark, with your name, too.
(note that This is meant only for explanation purposes, and not to "advertise anything!)

well... it seems I had launched a "false alarm" ( I did not know what he meant with "his website etc."), but I have really appreciated your advices, and I'm sure it will be useful for me in the future, but I think the replies could be useful for other people in this situation!

so, thank you very much again for your replies!!!

Matteo Stella
 
unattendedbag
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RE: Doubt About Asking Money For My Shots.

Thu Aug 26, 2010 9:25 pm

Quoting teopilot (Reply 14):
well... it seems I had launched a "false alarm"

I know it's not your first language, or the first language of several of the individuals who have replied, but the English in this thread is throwing everyone off.

Quoting teopilot (Thread starter):
well, Today, I received an email from a guy, who was interested in my photos: he said he wanted to upload them on a russian website whose topic is spotting.

Next time, it would serve you well to post the contents of the email. You can remove the name, address of the person emailing. This will remove much of the confusion in the future.

Quoting teopilot (Reply 14):
He linked me a website ( I don't know if I can post here the link, because it's something like this website.)
If, I can, I'll post it...

Please post the web address. If it is a public site, it would be helpful for all to see the site.

[Edited 2010-08-26 14:27:31]
Slower traffic, keep right
 
viv
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RE: Doubt About Asking Money For My Shots.

Fri Aug 27, 2010 6:47 am

Quoting derekf (Reply 13):
To ask for money from non-profitmaking enthusiasts is mercenary and I'll bet not many pay

To ask for money for goods offered or demanded is a choice; to agree to pay that money is also a choice. If, in the longer term "not many pay", either the price is too high, or the goods are not of high quality or are available for free from other sources.

Some months ago, BAE Systems, a hugely profitable company, asked me for permission to use one of my shots and became quite abusive when I asked for payment. They demanded goods but were not willing to pay for those goods. In our email exchange, the company representative stated that "anyway, I can easily get shots for free from other photographers". This is certainly true - and in my opinion regrettable. Was this large and profitable company acting in a mercenary manner? Each must form his own opinion.

If someone wants a shot badly enough, he will pay for it. If not, if he is a "non-profitmaking enthusiast", no one is stopping him from getting a camera, learning how to use it, then making his own shots.

Charity is different. I have many times given shots for free to charitable and educational organisations, to students writing theses on aspects of aviation, etc. Some have offered to pay (without being asked). I have always refused payment. As I have already said, whether or not I request payment depends on the circumstances.

You can call this mercenary or anything else you like. I really do not care. Your opinions are yours to express, and for me to ignore.
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derekf
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RE: Doubt About Asking Money For My Shots.

Fri Aug 27, 2010 7:41 am

Quoting viv (Reply 16):
If someone wants a shot badly enough, he will pay for it. If not, if he is a "non-profitmaking enthusiast", no one is stopping him from getting a camera, learning how to use it, then making his own shots.

He might have to invent a time machine as well.  

I'll continue to support the hobby of which I am a part and it is quite gratifying when fellow enthusiasts ask to use your photos on their website , especially the older photos which are impossible to get nowadays.

Ignoring other's opinions? That's a neat way to involve yourself in a DISCUSSION forum.    
Whatever.......
 
ZakHH
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RE: Doubt About Asking Money For My Shots.

Fri Aug 27, 2010 8:39 am

Quoting derekf (Reply 6):
Quoting ZakHH (Reply 4):
I have never heard of someone asking for permission to upload someone else's shots to a spotter website. It just does not make sense. I'd never do it. But that's just my 2 cents. If you are comfortable with it - it's your photos.

Really? I get requests frequently asking if my photos can be used by spotters websites, modelling websites, enthusiasts websites etc., I don't have a problem with it at all. We are all in the same game aren't we?

Okay, I see your point. Indeed, I have been asked by modellers and Flightsim modders myself, and never had a problem with that, either. I also occasionally ask photogs from our local spotter website if I can use a photo of theirs on my own (non-commercial) aviation website, to illustrate an article or a discussion.

What Matteo described sounded to me like someone was asking him for permission to upload his shots to a site like a.net, and that sounded strange to me.

But basically, I agree with you - we all share the same hobby, and if another hobbyist needs my help, I'd usually be willing to help out. And for non-commercial use, I'd not ask for money. Only if someone needs my work for commercial purposes, I'd charge for that - just sold a shot yesterday  
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viv
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RE: Doubt About Asking Money For My Shots.

Fri Aug 27, 2010 9:42 am

Quoting derekf (Reply 17):
Ignoring other's opinions? That's a neat way to involve yourself in a DISCUSSION forum.

In most circumstances, reasoned argument is more productive in discussion than unsubstantiated opinion (in my opinion).

Quoting derekf (Reply 17):
I'll continue to support the hobby of which I am a part

I would never attempt to persuade you to do otherwise. Why should I? And why should I care what you do? Why are you so defensive on this point?

Quoting derekf (Reply 17):
it is quite gratifying when fellow enthusiasts ask to use your photos on their website

In your opinion. Others may take a different view. Personally, I don't care what others think of my photography. Their opinions are irrelevant to me. I shoot for my own satisfaction. If I reach a point where photography ceases to give me satisfaction, I will stop shooting and do something else that is more satisfying to me at that point.
Nikon D700, Nikkor 80-400, Fuji X Pro 1, Fujinon 35 f/1.4, Fujinon 18 f/2
 
teopilot
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RE: Doubt About Asking Money For My Shots.

Fri Aug 27, 2010 10:06 am

Quoting unattendedbag (Reply 15):
I know it's not your first language, or the first language of several of the individuals who have replied, but the English in this thread is throwing everyone off.

I'm so sorry for that, in the future I'll try to do my best when writing.

then, I'd like to thank again the fellows who have replied: they have shown me different way of thinking, and I'm sure I can learn something by each one.
 
Matteo
 
teopilot
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RE: Doubt About Asking Money For My Shots.

Fri Aug 27, 2010 1:01 pm

I have remebered now to post the link, but I cannot edit my previous message...

the mentioned website is:
http://skyphotos.ru/
 
mat1979
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RE: Doubt About Asking Money For My Shots.

Fri Aug 27, 2010 10:36 pm

Quoting derekf (Reply 8):

So you would ask for money if someone wanted to use one of your photos on a non-commercial website?

___________

Quoting viv (Reply 9):


It depends on the circumstances. I have given shots without charge to the RAF Benevolent Fund and for ATC training purposes.

But to an amateur spotter or enthusiast site? Never.

___________

Quoting derekf (Reply 10):

But you upload them here without charge. This is a enthusiasts/spotters website after all.

Although i too am reluctant to give photos for free, this question from Derekf is i believe quite interesting, and i notice that you (Viv, to whom this question has been asked) are not replying to it.

I would be interested in having your and other photographers' point of view on this point (which is, we photographers don't usually give photos for free and certainly not to commercial operations, yet, we happily give our photos to a commercial operation making profits thanks to our photos (airliners.net)). Why is that?
 
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JohnKrist
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RE: Doubt About Asking Money For My Shots.

Sat Aug 28, 2010 6:17 am

In this case the site seem to be an ANet/JP kind of site trying to establish itself. If you feel you want to be part of that site and help it grow you should do it. For me it's enough with Anet/JP, even though I haven't uploaded to JP for a long time.
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INNflight
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RE: Doubt About Asking Money For My Shots.

Sat Aug 28, 2010 7:13 am

With regards to the point of uploading here without charge made by Derek:

It is a two-sided thing really. We need the site (or sites as this one, in general) to get our work out there. On the other hand, websites like this NEED us to upload, otherwise there will be less or almost no traffic, resulting in a small revenue, therefore not making the site worth running.

It's true that at the size of A.net, they don't need every single individual anymore, but still, in general the site relies on us to supply the content, they just offer the package for it.

Plus, a lot of member are in fact paying, not for uploading, but for foum use, etc.
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ghostbase
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RE: Doubt About Asking Money For My Shots.

Sat Aug 28, 2010 9:29 am

Quoting mat1979 (Reply 22):
I would be interested in having your and other photographers' point of view on this point (which is, we photographers don't usually give photos for free and certainly not to commercial operations, yet, we happily give our photos to a commercial operation making profits thanks to our photos (airliners.net)). Why is that?

My philosophy has always been that I will not allow any person or commercial organisation to make a profit from my photos - full stop! Enthusiasts, modellers, historians, students, retirements - all fine, as long as they ask, happy to help   I also love receiving PM's from ex servicemen who say that an aircraft I have photographed used to be 'theirs'.

Viv's point regards satisfaction is an important one for me, I still gain satisfaction from my work 'helping' other like-minded people, so I will happily give permission for my photos to be used for non-commercial purposes. However, I no longer gain any satisfaction at all in posting photos to A.Net so I don't upload any more. I doubt anyone will notice anyway  

When A.Net switched to Demand Media I did consider pulling all my photos from the site precisely because it is a commercial operation. However back then I still got satisfaction from uploading so I guess that was the 'fee' which I was willing to pay and to be honest I do still get satisfaction from feedback from non-A.Net people. Any commercial gain Demand Media make from my work is therefore justified.

  
"I chase my dreams but I never seem to arrive"
 
viv
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RE: Doubt About Asking Money For My Shots.

Sat Aug 28, 2010 9:31 am

Quoting mat1979 (Reply 22):
we photographers don't usually give photos for free and certainly not to commercial operations, yet, we happily give our photos to a commercial operation making profits thanks to our photos (airliners.net)). Why is that?

Because Anet is, in effect, a showcase for our shots, with many visitors each day. Anyone who wishes to see my shots (at least those I upload) can see them here. This being so, I see no need to give additional copies for free to people who ask for them.
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