andrej
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Where Is The Plane In This Picture?

Tue Dec 06, 2011 10:55 pm

Dear screeners,

I have seen many great pictures on this webpage, but I would like to ask how did this picture got through the screening process?!

I mean, I looked at this picture and I can not find any plane!  
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Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Jet Visuals




Cheers,

Andrej


P.S. What a nice shot!          
 
canyonblue17
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RE: Where Is The Plane In This Picture?

Tue Dec 06, 2011 11:26 pm

I can't find it either, but I like the flight attendent's outfit.  
negative ghostrider the pattern is full
 
vikkyvik
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RE: Where Is The Plane In This Picture?

Tue Dec 06, 2011 11:27 pm

BadMotiv, BadCenter, BadContrast, BadDistance....

But GreatA**!

Awesome photo.
I'm watching Jeopardy. The category is worst Madonna songs. "This one from 1987 is terrible".
 
photopilot
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RE: Where Is The Plane In This Picture?

Tue Dec 06, 2011 11:46 pm

Well, while the photo clearly has it's deficiencies, one must admire the angle the photographer chose in order to best display the "undercarriage" of the object in question.  
 
RonS
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RE: Where Is The Plane In This Picture?

Wed Dec 07, 2011 12:55 am

Quoting vikkyvik (Reply 2):
But GreatA**!

now that's funny
All opinions expressed by me are my own opinions & do not represent the opinions in any way of my employers.
 
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derekf
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RE: Where Is The Plane In This Picture?

Wed Dec 07, 2011 7:40 am

I have to say I'm surprised by the inclusion of this image. Images with similar motives have been rejected or removed in the past. I'm not sure it furthers the "database" in the slightest and panders to a certain audience. Images with aviation related engineers, pilots etc are rejected but images like this are accepted?  
Whatever.......
 
jorge1812
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RE: Where Is The Plane In This Picture?

Wed Dec 07, 2011 11:39 am

Almost 30000 hits speak for the image itself in times were hits are very low generally on Anet.

georg, who clicked at this pic immediately  
 
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scbriml
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RE: Where Is The Plane In This Picture?

Wed Dec 07, 2011 12:21 pm

Quoting derekf (Reply 5):
I have to say I'm surprised by the inclusion of this image. Images with similar motives have been rejected or removed in the past.

You're not the only one!

I wonder if my original verison of this, featuring a (fully-clothed) blonde in the left-hand seat, would now be accepted?   

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Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Steve Brimley

Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
 
gocaps16
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RE: Where Is The Plane In This Picture?

Wed Dec 07, 2011 1:42 pm

I agree with the photo, it is great, BUT

Quoting derekf (Reply 5):
Images with aviation related engineers, pilots etc are rejected but images like this are accepted?

However, I remember a while ago (years back) where photos of other people (pilots, flight attendants, baggage handlers, etc.) were not allowed unless the photographer got prior permission from the person. If my memory serves this was after the Hooters Air F/A shots.

Sometimes I do not understand.
 
andrej
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RE: Where Is The Plane In This Picture?

Wed Dec 07, 2011 2:03 pm

I hope somebody from a.net can chip in on the issue, but this topic was to celebrate very nice photo, with two nice subjects.  

I thought that unless person can be recognized, then it would not uploaded. There are other pictures, where you can see people in it, here are two examples:


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Jet Visuals


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Ken Iwelumo - Global Aviation Images

If I remember correctly, there are/were also photos of people in bikini from around the world.

Quoting gocaps16 (Reply 8):
If my memory serves this was after the Hooters Air F/A shots.

If i remember correctly, those Hooters Air FAs could be recognized.

Quoting derekf (Reply 5):
Images with similar motives have been rejected or removed in the past.

Now that is a shame! More the merrier!

Quoting scbriml (Reply 7):
featuring a (fully-clothed) blonde in the left-hand seat,
    

[Edited 2011-12-07 06:06:13]

[Edited 2011-12-07 06:06:47]
 
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FYODOR
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RE: Where Is The Plane In This Picture?

Wed Dec 07, 2011 3:06 pm

BadGreat, yeh?

Question is:

Quoting andrej (Thread starter):
how did this picture got through the screening process?!

Answer is:

Quoting andrej (Thread starter):
What a nice shot!

___
Quoting andrej (Thread starter):
I looked at this picture and I can not find any plane!

Plane takes about 2/3 of the shot. Clear aviation motive. Very nice addition - 1/6 of the picure is the girl with camera. Very good aviation picture.

Congrats to master - one more great shot is his collection! Thanks for shraing, thanks for acception.

PS. Even this shot is aviation motive, I'd say  
 
LH526
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RE: Where Is The Plane In This Picture?

Wed Dec 07, 2011 4:36 pm

Quoting vikkyvik (Reply 2):
BadMotiv

BADMOTIF?? How can such a derriere be bad motif?  
Trittst im Morgenrot daher, seh ich dich im Strahlenmeer ...
 
hrtsfldhomeboy
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RE: Where Is The Plane In This Picture?

Wed Dec 07, 2011 5:14 pm

I'm cheering for this photo. Applaude the staff for including this photo in the database. Yah, it seems like too many photos of similar motive are rejected these days. Especially after johan checked out, but to see this photo make the database suggests a shift in reasoning by the "new a.net" management towards a more accepting & inclusive mentality.

Or maybe this is a mean tease by the staff since Jet Visuals is a long time contributor and often the "old Guard" photogs get special consideration. I mean, lets be real, this website ain't a democracy.

-H
 
Silver1SWA
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RE: Where Is The Plane In This Picture?

Wed Dec 07, 2011 5:27 pm

At first, I didn't want to give any attention to the complaints in this thread. But I must say a few things...

First of all, this site could use more creativity and storytelling like this! Stop complaining, it's a good thing!

I like the story this photo tells. This is an aviation photography website. Here you have a nice young lady taking a photograph of an airplane! Person + camera + airplane IS aviation photography!

The photographer presented this story in a way that works. It's wonderfully composed and the aircraft fills enough of the frame to be the main subject of the shot.

Quoting andrej (Reply 9):
I thought that unless person can be recognized, then it would not uploaded. There are other pictures, where you can see people in it, here are two examples:

  
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
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clickhappy
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RE: Where Is The Plane In This Picture?

Wed Dec 07, 2011 5:45 pm

Quoting hrtsfldhomeboy (Reply 12):
Especially after johan checked out, but to see this photo make the database suggests a shift in reasoning by the "new a.net" management towards a more accepting & inclusive mentality.

Sorry - but this statement is incorrect. Johan constantly changed the rules - at one point purging all images that could be "misinterpreted," to avoid falling foul of his ISP's definition of "porn."

Demand Media has never provided any sort of limits on what we can, or cannot accept. If you have an image that was purged back in 2004, by all means, reupload it.

Thanks
 
vikkyvik
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RE: Where Is The Plane In This Picture?

Wed Dec 07, 2011 6:03 pm

Quoting andrej (Reply 9):
I thought that unless person can be recognized, then it would not uploaded

Maybe someone can recognize her just from that backside.  
Quoting Silver1SWA (Reply 13):
The photographer presented this story in a way that works. It's wonderfully composed and the aircraft fills enough of the frame to be the main subject of the shot.

I would completely agree with that.

Quoting lh526 (Reply 11):
BADMOTIF?? How can such a derriere be bad motif?

Did you miss this part:

Quoting vikkyvik (Reply 2):
But GreatA**!
I'm watching Jeopardy. The category is worst Madonna songs. "This one from 1987 is terrible".
 
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derekf
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RE: Where Is The Plane In This Picture?

Wed Dec 07, 2011 6:59 pm

If it was a fully clothed male spotter/photographer at Manchester would it have been accepted? I wonder....


Some of replies here confirm that there is one reason and one reason only why this photo is liked and it has very little to do with aviation.
Whatever.......
 
hrtsfldhomeboy
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RE: Where Is The Plane In This Picture?

Wed Dec 07, 2011 7:12 pm

Quoting clickhappy (Reply 14):
Demand Media has never provided any sort of limits on what we can, or cannot accept. If you have an image that was purged back in 2004, by all means, reupload it.

You make me LOL, King. What is a MOTIVE rejection then? Earlier this year I uploaded a shot of a half naked woman on that billboard by the LAX innout and it was rejected for Motive.

I should probably go below deck and get back to rowing with the others...

[Edited 2011-12-07 11:13:48]
 
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clickhappy
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RE: Where Is The Plane In This Picture?

Wed Dec 07, 2011 7:18 pm

Quoting hrtsfldhomeboy (Reply 17):
Earlier this year I uploaded a shot of a half naked woman on that billboard by the LAX innout and it was rejected for Motive.

Sounds like it should have been uploaded at billboards.net

If it was rejected for motiv it was because of the overall content of the photo, not the subject of the billboard.

Quoting hrtsfldhomeboy (Reply 17):
I should probably go below deck and get back to rowing with the others...

What does that even mean?
 
hrtsfldhomeboy
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RE: Where Is The Plane In This Picture?

Wed Dec 07, 2011 7:30 pm

Quoting clickhappy (Reply 18):
If it was rejected for motiv it was because of the overall content of the photo, not the subject of the billboard.

Okay, yah. The Billboard filled prob 60% of the frame. Had a Virgin A346 nicely perched on top of it with the wingspan the same width of the billboard. Looked classy, very similar to this photo: http://www.flickr.com/photos/gtarded/4806646452/

Actually, thats the same advertisement that was in my photo.

Quoting clickhappy (Reply 18):
Quoting hrtsfldhomeboy (Reply 17):
I should probably go below deck and get back to rowing with the others...

What does that even mean?

Slave Ships. the photogs propel this site forward with the content contributed, but get no compensation/say in matters?
  
 
andrej
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RE: Where Is The Plane In This Picture?

Wed Dec 07, 2011 8:04 pm

Quoting Silver1SWA (Reply 13):
Stop complaining, it's a good thing!

I completely agree! The photo is very nice, and creative!

Quoting derekf (Reply 16):
Some of replies here confirm that there is one reason and one reason only why this photo is liked and it has very little to do with aviation.

Derek, with all due respect the shot is really nice. I mean not only because of the girl, but I really like overall composure of it. Photographer's portfolio shows how the he knows his stuff and produces quality photographs.

And I am first to admit it, I like the girl in the photo as well.

Quoting FYODOR (Reply 10):
PS. Even this shot is aviation motive, I'd say

Nice shot, but you have 2/3 of people, 1/3 plane. The pic above I would say is opposite.   ...and offers better subjects!   

Quoting Silver1SWA (Reply 13):
First of all, this site could use more creativity and storytelling like this!

It is always nice to see creative shots!

Cheers,

Andrej
 
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FYODOR
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RE: Where Is The Plane In This Picture?

Wed Dec 07, 2011 8:44 pm

Quoting andrej (Reply 20):
Nice shot, but you have 2/3 of people, 1/3 plane.

Thats why I didn't upload it. Here indeed. It saleable thing - good to have it in photobank.

But I hope once these subjects

will be welcomed at Anet. Realy hope.

Would be nice to hear about that something hopeful from the staff  
 
MUC_Spotter
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RE: Where Is The Plane In This Picture?

Wed Dec 07, 2011 9:22 pm

Quoting clickhappy (Reply 14):
If you have an image that was purged back in 2004, by all means, reupload it.

Bring back the H**ters pics   
 
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vishaljo
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RE: Where Is The Plane In This Picture?

Wed Dec 07, 2011 11:35 pm

Quoting FYODOR (Reply 10):
Plane takes about 2/3 of the shot. Clear aviation motive. Very nice addition - 1/6 of the picure is the girl with camera.
Quoting andrej (Reply 20):
but you have 2/3 of people, 1/3 plane

IMO, There's no such thing.

And these photos will tell you why, its what looks right to the screeners at that moment.
A known/reputed uploader's shot will perhaps get the screener to look at that image for an extra second/seconds before passing judgement.

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Paul Paulsen - AirTeamImages
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Paul Paulsen - AirTeamImages


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Paul Paulsen - AirTeamImages
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Paul Paulsen - AirTeamImages


None of the shots except the ANA T7 have the plane occupying even 1/4th of the shot & we can fathom what the ANA will be rejected for had it been shot by someone else.

Point is, there's a narrative to all of them.
And atleast its not a "on short finals for rwy xyz" or bland landing shot nonsense

I've had a few disappointments with uploading such type of photos & to be honest i've not pursued it a lot as I thought the screeners didnt seem very fond of women   


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Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Vishal Jolapara - Indian Aviation Photographers


For e.g., i had made a fleeting tongue-in-cheek reference to the excited/curious girl seen here exiting after spending a minute in the cockpit of the Rafale.
Check its remark now      
 
dendrobatid
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RE: Where Is The Plane In This Picture?

Thu Dec 08, 2011 9:59 am

What is accepted onto the database is evolving all the time and had the woman in that shot have been facing the other way and smiling at the camera, it would not have been accepted. However, the way she is, with the camera raised creating a lead for the eye to be drawn to the main subject, the aircraft, it is more than well composed, it is superbly so ! She happens to be in the photograph but her position is not at all gratuitous and the image is a classic rule of thirds one with a lead in. I don't like the term creative for unusual motive shots here, but this one is !

However, we have a system that when an image such as this enters screening, it needs to be seen by multiple Screeners and if contentious it is referred to the Heads for a final decision. That one was seen by five Screeners all of whom saw it for what it was, an excellent photograph and it was added. If you want to try something different, then there is nothing to stop you but don't be surprised if you get rejections. A well known, very popular photographer here asked my advice just the other day as he had had a lot of rejections but by pushing the limits as he does, you probably will. But you might also get something different accepted more frequently than in the past. Jet Visuals is a superb photographer who knows the difference between what is simply different and what is good. The two are not always the same and most of what we see where something is different comes from the least experienced photographers and it is not often good. Different and good has been accepted for a long time.

I have to take exception with you Vishaljo for this comment and I do not like the fact that four (Head) Screeners images are then used to try to make his point when there are thousands of images on the database where the aircraft is a far smaller part of the image - the ANA 777 is a standard side-on image that could be any one of probably a million images like it. So why refer to it other than to take a shot at Screeners rather than being balanced?

Quoting vishaljo (Reply 23):
A known/reputed uploader's shot will perhaps get the screener to look at that image for an extra second/seconds before passing judgement.

Images are only judged on their merit something that you can only appreciate when you see how things are done and that is something that surprises most trainee screeners when they join.

As to Vishaljo's last comment

For e.g., i had made a fleeting tongue-in-cheek reference to the excited/curious girl seen here exiting after spending a minute in the cockpit of the Rafale.
Check its remark now

We reserve the right to remove comments that are seen as hit seeking, waving pilots, check out.... etc and, whilst I do not remember precisely what the comment was I do remember it was a comment about how attractive you thought the girl was to get the pilot's and your attention. What could be more hit seeking than that, drawing attention to the girl, less than 10% of the image, rather than the aircraft?

Yes, the comment was removed as it was very clearly a hit seeker, but some people seem more bothered about the hits than the aircraft (I am evidently not one of them) and, even now ' Check its remark now'

Click, click, click

Still doing it Vishaljo ?  

Mick Bajcar
 
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vishaljo
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RE: Where Is The Plane In This Picture?

Thu Dec 08, 2011 11:34 am

Mick you have TOTALLY Misunderstood my post.

Nowhere am i slamming Paul, i clearly mentioned how well he presents an image with a story/a narrative which makes all the differance.
Someone had put-up a thread a while ago about their favorite photographers & the first name I had mentioned was Paul Paulsen, Florian Trojer, Joe Pries & 2 others.

Quoting dendrobatid (Reply 24):
I do not like the fact that four (Head) Screeners images are then used to try to make his point when there are thousands of images on the database where the aircraft is a far smaller part of the image

Reason why I picked those shots & not others' is because:
- every shot of Paul is Special/Unique
- I feel looking at them & more of his photos will help people compose better images
- I dont even remember 'the others' whereas Paul is the most famous

Quoting dendrobatid (Reply 24):
the ANA 777 is a standard side-on image that could be any one of probably a million images like it

Its not centered & there's a motive to that which is explained by him

Quoting dendrobatid (Reply 24):
Images are only judged on their merit something that you can only appreciate when you see how things are done

Which is why I italicised the word 'perhaps' in my line

Quoting dendrobatid (Reply 24):
whilst I do not remember precisely what the comment was I do remember it was a comment about how attractive you thought the girl was

whilst I do not precisely remember the exact comment either but, it DEFINATELY wasnt about how attractive she was, as she wasnt that good looking 
I do remember ending my remark on that photo with "Moi like zis aihplane!"

Quoting dendrobatid (Reply 24):
even now ' Check its remark now'

Click, click, click

Still doing it Vishaljo ?  

And AGAIN Mick, Trying to show the censorship, nothing more - nothing less. I dont care about 15~30 petty hits. Most of my photos make it to the front page & i'm happy with the mails i receive from people.

I dont want this thread to be locked-up because there's really no issue here.
U seem to have misunderstood me, i've now clarified - lets move-on with life   
 
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derekf
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RE: Where Is The Plane In This Picture?

Thu Dec 08, 2011 1:32 pm

And the 50000+ views are checking out the excellent composition and the adherence to the rule of thirds ? Yeah right.....  
Whatever.......
 
INNflight
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RE: Where Is The Plane In This Picture?

Thu Dec 08, 2011 2:32 pm

G'd afternoon all,

I don't have much to add as Mick has made most points very nicely, just to elaborate on the motive and "preferred uploader" argument..:

I currently have an acceptance ratio of 28 percent, so there goes that argument.

I get plenty of rejections, many which I do not agree with, but that's all part of the game. I do not upload to keep my ratio up. The photos in the queue are the one's which I LIKE, I could honestly care less if the screeners do. I don't mind having a low ratio, because I don't need 30 upload slots. I'd be fine with just two. If the team likes a shot, I enjoy that. If not - tough luck.

You win some you loose some...


@Derekf.... why the bitterness?

Cheers,
Florian
Jet Visuals
 
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derekf
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RE: Where Is The Plane In This Picture?

Thu Dec 08, 2011 2:55 pm

No bitterness here. I hope you don't see a problem with who dare to take an opposing view to the majority. I'm not keen on seeing the "database" ruined by the inclusion of photos which are accepted for purely commercial reasons. Having that photo on the front page will , I'm sure, have proved financially successful to airliners.net and its advertisers.

Don't get me wrong , it is a nice enough picture for maybe a postcard but I struggle to see its value for inclusion in the database.
Whatever.......
 
Silver1SWA
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RE: Where Is The Plane In This Picture?

Thu Dec 08, 2011 6:04 pm

Quoting derekf (Reply 26):
And the 50000+ views are checking out the excellent composition and the adherence to the rule of thirds ? Yeah right.....

It doesn't matter if the viewers are concerned with the photo's techincal merit, the fact is it's a beautifully composed image and shouldn't be rejected just because the viewers won't be thinking about the rule of thirds.

Quoting derekf (Reply 28):
I'm not keen on seeing the "database" ruined by the inclusion of photos which are accepted for purely commercial reasons. Having that photo on the front page will , I'm sure, have proved financially successful to airliners.net and its advertisers.

Are you suggesting some sort of consipiracy? Mick explained the screening process for this one. Do you really think a group of screeners talked behind the scenes about potential views and profitability? What do the screeners care? That's not their job or their concern.

I'll give the site the benefit that they accepted it solely on the fact that the photo is well-executed, beautifully composed and it tells a good story.

[Edited 2011-12-08 10:08:37]
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
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derekf
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RE: Where Is The Plane In This Picture?

Thu Dec 08, 2011 7:08 pm

The site may have accepted it for its photographic merits but the hits are for an another reason and hits are very important to this site. The obsession with statistics shows us this.

The posts above and indeed the thread title have in general confirmed why the picture is getting views and as I said before it has nothing to do with the photo's artistic merits.
As I said, I don't deny it's a nice picture but I still think it is inappropriate for the database. It isn't the first picture that I've thought this about and I dare say it won't be the last.
Whatever.......
 
vikkyvik
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RE: Where Is The Plane In This Picture?

Thu Dec 08, 2011 7:35 pm

Quoting derekf (Reply 28):
Don't get me wrong , it is a nice enough picture for maybe a postcard but I struggle to see its value for inclusion in the database.

Well, what are your rules for shots that add value to the database, versus subtract or simply maintain value?

Does another shot of an AA 738 really add value to the database? Should the site reject all photos that are repeats of previous photos?

Quoting derekf (Reply 30):
The site may have accepted it for its photographic merits but the hits are for an another reason and hits are very important to this site. The obsession with statistics shows us this.

To me, it sounds like you're saying:

1.) The site accepted the photo because it's a photographically well-done photo.
2.) The photo is getting hits for another reason, and that upsets you.

I don't get it. Should the site reject photos that have beautiful landscapes in the background, because people might click on the photo due to the landscape? I know I've done that on numerous occasions. Should A.net only accept photos of an airplane against a plain blue sky?

Quoting derekf (Reply 30):
The obsession with statistics shows us this.

The site's obsession, or the photographers' obsession? Again, to me, it seems that certain photographers are much more obsessed with statistics than the site in general.

And really, who can blame the site for being concerned with statistics? It's a business.
I'm watching Jeopardy. The category is worst Madonna songs. "This one from 1987 is terrible".
 
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FYODOR
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RE: Where Is The Plane In This Picture?

Thu Dec 08, 2011 7:57 pm

Quoting derekf (Reply 28):
to see its value for inclusion in the database

People like it. What is the more important value?

Does this photo creates any troubles, problems, etc? Who is the victim of its presense on Anet? Who will win if such images will be removed? If you like classic side shots only - you have great opportunity to see hundreds of thousands excellent side shots on Anet. Creative shots (I'd say this shot simply nice but 'creative' is a bit different thing but fine - lets call them all 'creative') don't bother you to enjoy staff you like. There are much less creative shots in DB and many people like them. Why would you like to bother people to enjoy the staff they like?

Quoting Silver1SWA (Reply 29):
the viewers won't be thinking about the rule of thirds.

I'll tell you more, mate. Even many photogs not care   I have been studied photography in photoschool more than 25 years ago and do not rememebr well many theoretical things and 'rules'. Indeed I know the basics of composition and hope - know well, but if I see the view I'll enjoy and it will not be classic or 'true' view - I just will do what I want. Hope it works. And the best school for the photog is the other's experience. See, enjoy, make it better.

I happy to have here pictures of Jet Visuals because I can learn something from his works. Hope Anet will stay the place there people can learn from each other different things about aviation photography.

Regards,

Fyodor
 
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derekf
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RE: Where Is The Plane In This Picture?

Thu Dec 08, 2011 8:22 pm

Quoting vikkyvik (Reply 31):
Well, what are your rules for shots that add value to the database, versus subtract or simply maintain value?

Photos where the subject is the aircraft rather than a person would be a good start.

Quoting vikkyvik (Reply 31):
To me, it sounds like you're saying:

1.) The site accepted the photo because it's a photographically well-done photo.
2.) The photo is getting hits for another reason, and that upsets you.

I don't get it. Should the site reject photos that have beautiful landscapes in the background, because people might click on the photo due to the landscape? I know I've done that on numerous occasions. Should A.net only accept photos of an airplane against a plain blue sky?

You are twisting what I'm saying. The screeners accepted the photo for the reasons stated. If the photo had just been of the aircraft it would have been rejected - it is backlit and blurred. The figure in the foreground is therefore the important factor. This isn't scantly-clad-females.net - there are plenty of other sites that cater for that sort of thing. I'd hoped this isn't wasn't one of them.

Nice backgrounds are a different thing - they are exactly that - backgrounds - not foregrounds
Whatever.......
 
vikkyvik
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RE: Where Is The Plane In This Picture?

Thu Dec 08, 2011 8:38 pm

Quoting derekf (Reply 33):
Photos where the subject is the aircraft rather than a person would be a good start.

Well, to me, the subject is the airplane. Obviously that can be a subjective thing.

Quoting derekf (Reply 33):
You are twisting what I'm saying.

I'm not twisting anything. That's precisely why I said "To me, it sounds like you're saying...."

Quoting derekf (Reply 33):
If the photo had just been of the aircraft it would have been rejected - it is backlit and blurred.

I agree on the backlit, but don't see the blur. To my eyes, the airplane looks sharper than the woman.

Personally, I think the backlighting actually adds to the photo. Yes, I know backlighting is frowned upon and often rejected here. I've had shots rejected for it. But my shots weren't anywhere near as interesting as this one.

I don't let perceived screener inconsistency get to me. I trust they're doing their jobs to the best of their abilities. I'm very happy that they saw fit to accept this photo, despite shots of my own getting rejected for being backlit.
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RE: Where Is The Plane In This Picture?

Thu Dec 08, 2011 10:04 pm

Quoting derekf (Reply 33):
You are twisting what I'm saying. The screeners accepted the photo for the reasons stated.

For which stated reasons? The screeners'? Or yours?

Quoting derekf (Reply 30):
The site may have accepted it for its photographic merits but the hits are for an another reason and hits are very important to this site. The obsession with statistics shows us this.

What about photos of say, the LAX In n Out? People view those because of the location depicted and not just to see the aircraft.

It's a great photo and one that shows the kind of creativity I'd like to see more of. I consider myself to be a photographer, not a spotter. That's a very nice photograph and far more interesting, in my opinion, than a cookie cutter side-on with blue sky.
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RE: Where Is The Plane In This Picture?

Fri Dec 09, 2011 12:12 am

Quoting derekf (Reply 28):
I struggle to see its value for inclusion in the database.

Derek, I think you need to have a Corona on the deck of the Sunset Beach bar, put the camera away for a few minutes and look at the scene around you. Jet Visuals captured a scene superbly. The very essence and mood of the the beach, the scene, sxm, everything is captured here in this one photograph. If you don't like it don't look at it. Simple as that. I never see the people that take creative photogenic shots knock those that are more interested in the "database" side of this hobby, yet those people some times have a bone to pick with the way an artist captured a scene. It's up to the photographer. SXM is one of the top airports to spot from at this hobby because of the beauty, girls, beach, aircraft, you name it and most of all that is captured here.


And if Jet Visuals was really only interested in capturing a scene about a "girl" he would have done something like this   lol


20101118-IMG_6923px1024 by Ron Stella, on Flickr
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RE: Where Is The Plane In This Picture?

Fri Dec 09, 2011 12:27 am

That better be your fiance or your fiance better not read this website Ron!
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RE: Where Is The Plane In This Picture?

Fri Dec 09, 2011 1:06 am

Quoting RonS (Reply 36):

And if Jet Visuals was really only interested in capturing a scene about a "girl" he would have done something like this

What girl? I only see an AA 757.   

Wait a minute Ron....why is "girl" in quotes?
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RE: Where Is The Plane In This Picture?

Fri Dec 09, 2011 10:56 am

It's a great photo. It should be here.

As long as a.net keeps this formula of using arbitrary, published metrics with subjective exceptions (and if there needs to be a system, it's as good as any other) there will be forum topics like this. On any other photography site that image would have been celebrated without comment.
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RE: Where Is The Plane In This Picture?

Fri Dec 09, 2011 11:23 am

It seems to be that it is popular because it has a female in it - that's all. I would guess the vast majority of vistors to a.net are males aged 15 to 35 therefore any image with a female form in it is going to appeal to those people. Clearly a similar image with a man in it would have not generated nearly as hits - it may even never have been accepted in the first place.

Excuses are being made as to why it is attracting attention and what a great image it is but we all know the real reason.  

What a shame she forgot to switch the camera on  
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RE: Where Is The Plane In This Picture?

Fri Dec 09, 2011 11:55 am

Quoting derekf (Reply 40):
It seems to be that it is popular because it has a female in it - that's all. I would guess the vast majority of vistors to a.net are males aged 15 to 35 therefore any image with a female form in it is going to appeal to those people. Clearly a similar image with a man in it would have not generated nearly as hits - it may even never have been accepted in the first place.

Who cares about what makes it popular with visitors?! And I'm sorry, but a shot showing anyone standing under a 747 that low over their heads will attract attention. It puts the viewer right there!

Quoting derekf (Reply 40):
Excuses are being made as to why it is attracting attention and what a great image it is but we all know the real reason.

Uh, no. It's a well-executed shot, period.

Quoting derekf (Reply 40):
a.net are males aged 15 to 35

And a good portion of the community isn't interested in girls. So what?

[Edited 2011-12-09 03:56:34]
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slideman
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RE: Where Is The Plane In This Picture?

Fri Dec 09, 2011 11:57 am

I think the shot is a worthwhile addition, it is not only well shot and beautifully composed if sums up what SXM is all about in a very different way to most.

I have no issues with 'creative' uploads providing they offer something different, whilst as I said,I really like the SXM shot I wouldn't want to see a whole load of similar efforts as 1. I doubt they would match the originality and quality. 2. The novelty would soon wear off.

There are always going to be differing views regarding the merits of the more unusual shots but it would be shame if shots like this were not there to be viewed. As has been said before, if you dont like it , dont view it.

Trev
 
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RE: Where Is The Plane In This Picture?

Fri Dec 09, 2011 12:09 pm

Hey all,

idea for making this thread was to share really nice photo. I was never *really* complaining, on contrary, the photographer has done an excellent job. I thought that people will get the title, once they read what I wrote.

I will stand by what I mentioned earlier, the shot is very nicely composed, with two very nice subjects. And yes it is back-lit, but I think that it tells the story (already described by others).

JetVisuals portfolio is very nice, with many great photos. I, for one, am very thankful that he has decided to upload it, and a.net accepted it (I am glad that a.net decided to accept more artistic shots as it has been beneficial to the community).

I have never thought that this benign thread will evolve into a serious discussion.

Quoting derekf (Reply 40):
Excuses are being made as to why it is attracting attention and what a great image it is but we all know the real reason.

Even if the girl was not there, it would make for a creative shot (the vibrant colors, position of the plane; overall atmosphere). But I do agree with you, the photo received a lot of attention because of the assets in it.  

And finally I am thankful to all photographers (Derek that includes you as well   ) that decide to upload their photos here; after all this is an aviation related web-page for aviation enthusiasts and you make it so much better!

Cheers,

Andrej
 
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RE: Where Is The Plane In This Picture?

Fri Dec 09, 2011 12:51 pm

It seems to me that disagreement is not particularly well-received among some. 

Interesting that a similar and, I think, much better picture receives many many less hits. I wonder why?

Anyway I've said my piece and thanks to Andrej for starting the topic. This forum is normally fairly stale and dull (not like the old days) and this debate has livened it up somewhat.
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Psych
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RE: Where Is The Plane In This Picture?

Fri Dec 09, 2011 1:37 pm

I can't help myself (just like the old days!)    so here I go:

I have enjoyed following this thread, and can identify with Derek's comment re livening up the Forum a little - no bad thing.

When I first saw the image I thought to myself - 'what would I do if I were a screener'? So that said to me that I was aware of the potential impact accepting a photo with such a significant role for a scantily clad woman. I - like others - was around for Johan and the decisions about the Hooters photos, with all the debate that ensued at that time.

For me the key here is that this photo has a number of key elements for 'big hits' on A.net:

* SXM venue
* Beautiful lighting
* An 'in your face' aircraft subject - and a wide body to boot - with a very clear context
* Drama created by the very low level and 'immediacy' of the motive
* Photographers may appreciate the skill involved in catching a fast moving object at wide angle so low - so technical merit
* Overall pleasing photographic composition - including 'people' in the motive
* An attractive female form very clearly in shot

I may have missed something out there, and also possibly not put the above in the correct order of significance to the average viewer.

Many reasons why this photo, once accepted, was a dead cert to reach No. 1 spot, get a Photographer's Choice spot and also generate debate as to the rights and wrongs of its initial acceptance.

Leaving aside the politics of a bikini clad woman and the potential for her to be 'objectified' in the cauldron that is a male dominated A.net community, many of us out there might have wished to have had the opportunity to create such a composition and take such a photo.

Some may feel strongly they don't want to 'leave aside' such political musings, and I would respect and support their right to voice their view.

Paul

[Edited 2011-12-09 05:46:05]
 
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FYODOR
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RE: Where Is The Plane In This Picture?

Fri Dec 09, 2011 1:41 pm

Quoting derekf (Reply 44):
I wonder why?

Many people have tried to explain it but I not sure you care about their arguments.

You stated you don't like it. Ok. It is your inalienable right. Readers have got it. Seems most of them are not ready to share it.

You gave your vision on reasons of the popularity. I think your point is wrong. I'm older than 35, still like women  , expereinced in photography of planes and - it happens - a bit in photography of naked ladies as well. Trust me - I would not be interested in this shot if it would be the only lady's part. From my perspective we have just a good shot where everithing plays its role. If you can't see anything else in this shot except female's... well, back, I hope   - it doesn't mean rest of more than 50.000 people see the same. I even think if it would be an old man in dark suit and tie staing in Maho Beach - it could be more people who would like to see such a strange view.  

See this picture - no naked ladies there and more than 300.000 views:

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Serge Bailleul - AirTeamImages


Point is - people like to see other people. Thats a rule of photography, reason of popularity. Not necessary naked women. People like to see other people emotions, expressions, works, activities. I not shure Anet is good for emotions and expressions - focus will be not on avition but on emotion. However as about works and activities - I realy hope Anet will come even more friendly to the shots with industry people ar work, aviation photographers while photography, paxes etc. - there are all pure aviation subjects and would be great to see it, as like as aviation people deserve the right to be viewed by thousends of colleagues and enthusiasts.

Regards,


Fyodor
 
sulman
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RE: Where Is The Plane In This Picture?

Fri Dec 09, 2011 1:44 pm

Quoting Psych (Reply 45):
and a wide body to boot

Easy, tiger
 
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RonS
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RE: Where Is The Plane In This Picture?

Fri Dec 09, 2011 1:46 pm

Quoting derekf (Reply 40):
Clearly a similar image with a man in it would have not generated nearly as hits - it may even never have been accepted in the first place.

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Ronald J Stella




Kudos to the screeners, and I think this proves it would be accepted. It didn't get as many hits because it's not as good, it's not a heavy, etc.

Derek, you're right on one thing, this forum needs to be livened up for sure. If silly remarks are what is needed, I'll give you a pass!  

And no, I never miss a chance for self promotion, not ashamed of it  
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Psych
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RE: Where Is The Plane In This Picture?

Fri Dec 09, 2011 2:02 pm

Ron - for me another beautiful photo from your portfolio. Equally deserving of many views, in my opinion.

But I do agree with Derek that the young female form is of more interest to many, which will translate itself into hits.

I must say I feel a bit protective of Derek here, as I would reckon he is voicing a view that is held by many 'out there'. It's that old saying - you may strongly disagree with what he is saying, but you should still support his right to express his view.

As for your comment, Mr. Trimbee! Well that takes us straight into that political debate I was not getting into!   . I only hope she gave her informed consent to the likelihood of having her bum discussed on a public forum.

Paul

[Edited 2011-12-09 06:14:02]

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