mohammedzaheer
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Editing Questions

Thu Jul 18, 2013 3:44 am

Hey,

Basically I want to clarify exactly what it is stating to do..

Quote:
STEP 5: Sharpening

This step can make or break your image. Too little sharpening will cause an image to look soft, too much sharpening causes jagged lines, grain and a white lining around all edges with high contrast. It’s crucial to find a right balance between the two.
Sharpening is only useful for areas with high detail. Large areas without detail, like the sky, should not be sharpened. If this is done this will only lead to unnecessary forming of grain. The trick is to deselect the sky when sharpening.
First, duplicate the background layer for a later purpose. Right-click on the background layer and choose “Duplicate Layer”.
Use the “magic wand”-tool (see red circle below). This selects everything with the same intensity. You can set the tolerance in the Options toolbar (other red circle, set at 5 in this example). Press anywhere in the sky and it will select a big area. Press “shift” and click on an area in the sky that has not been selected yet. It will be added to your selection. Do this until you have selected the whole sky.

selecting the background

The amount of times you need to repeat this depends in the tolerance you have set.
Next, invert the selection: menu “Select -> Inverse”. Now you’ve selected everything but the sky. As sometimes the ‘marching ants’ that indicate the selection border now cover the airplane, expand the selection with 1 pixel, to make sure all edges of the aircraft are in the selected area: Menu “Select -> Modify -> Expand”.
Now you can sharpen. There are many roads that lead to Rome and this is just one of them. Apply USM (menu “Filter -> Sharpen -> Unsharp Mask…”) with the following parameters: 200, 0.2, 0.
To prevent a hard transition from sharpened to unsharpened areas; expand the selection with 1 pixel before applying another pass of USM. Repeat this until you find a desired level of sharpness. (Smooth transition from selected to unselected areas can also be done using the “feather” feature).
If in this process jagged lines appear, they can be smoothened again by using the Eraser-tool (with a small brush size). Sharpening was only applied to the Background Copy layer, so the background layer is still unsharpened. If you erase on the sharpened layer, the unsharpened layer underneath will appear (without jagged lines). Also, if grain has come out during sharpening, erasing in the sharpened layer can also reduce this.
When all is as desired: flatten the image (combining all layers).
Menu: “Layer -> Flatten Image”
(You can also create a new layer every time you do one pass of USM. Duplicate layer, USM, erase jaggies, flatten the layers and repeat the process again, duplicate, USM, erase jaggies, flatten. Etc.)

The part where i'm confused is if I want to sharpen another round, do I need to once again deselect everything and use the "magic wand" re-do all steps ....duplicating the layer and follow the same steps?

Or because the aircraft is already selected just follow the "SELECT>>MODIFY>>INCREASE 1 pixel>>UNSHARP MASK and repeat?

All help is appreciated.
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DL747
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RE: Editing Questions

Thu Jul 18, 2013 4:09 am

IMO, sharpening doesn't need to be this complex. Simply lasso the aircraft roughly, do one pass at 40ish, 0.8, and another at 20ish, 0.3. That is what I do with CS2 and it works fine. All this stuff is unnecessary.

John
Just like the shirt says, Boeing Builds It Better!
 
mohammedzaheer
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RE: Editing Questions

Thu Jul 18, 2013 4:26 am

Thanks John for your reply, so just to clarify..

Lasso the aircraft then>>FILTER>>SHARPEN>>UNSHARP MASK and the first round AMOUNT "40%" / RADIUS "0.2" / THRESHOLD "0"

then second round 20% and so on?

Do you increase the pixels at all? or above is what you do and thats fine?

THanks again!
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eskillawl
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RE: Editing Questions

Thu Jul 18, 2013 8:25 am

Quoting DL747 (Reply 1):

IMO, sharpening doesn't need to be this complex. Simply lasso the aircraft roughly, do one pass at 40ish, 0.8, and another at 20ish, 0.3. That is what I do with CS2 and it works fine. All this stuff is unnecessary.

John

I cant understand why you're saying this. It all depends on how soft/un crisp the aircraft is. With other words, there's no magic number to get the perfect sharpness, it all depends on how soft your photo is.
Photo equipment: Canon EOS 60D | Canon 70-200 F4L USM | Canon 18-55 3:5-5:6 |
 
viv
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RE: Editing Questions

Thu Jul 18, 2013 10:38 am

If your photo from the camera is in focus and shows no motion blur and if in-camera sharpening is set to 'off', one pass of Smartsharpen at 75%, radius 0.3 will usually be all you need. It's normally all I ever do.

If your photo from the camera is out of focus or suffers from motion blur, no amount of farting about in Photoshop will fix it.
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mohammedzaheer
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RE: Editing Questions

Thu Jul 18, 2013 3:29 pm

Great feedback everyone so many different ways in doing quality!

Just one concern I want to clarify regardless how many times a person will do a round of sharpening around the aircraft when it is selected with the lasso or magic want tool, if you want to go another round of sharpening do you have to de-select the aircraft and once again go around with the lasso or magic wand and apply? Or just apply it again without de-selecting the aircraft from the round of sharpening as its already been selected?

Thanks!
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vikkyvik
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RE: Editing Questions

Thu Jul 18, 2013 4:02 pm

Quoting mohammedzaheer (Reply 5):
Just one concern I want to clarify regardless how many times a person will do a round of sharpening around the aircraft when it is selected with the lasso or magic want tool, if you want to go another round of sharpening do you have to de-select the aircraft and once again go around with the lasso or magic wand and apply? Or just apply it again without de-selecting the aircraft from the round of sharpening as its already been selected?

Just apply again without de- and re-selecting.
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clickhappy
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RE: Editing Questions

Thu Jul 18, 2013 4:41 pm

Quoting viv (Reply 4):
no amount of farting about in Photoshop will fix it.

                       
 
mohammedzaheer
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RE: Editing Questions

Thu Jul 18, 2013 5:29 pm

Thanks again everyone for your feedback  

Also caught some new shots this time went later on in the day managed to catch couple 747s. Sunlight was just pleasant It looks as pics came our decent.

Will post soon  
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Silver1SWA
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RE: Editing Questions

Thu Jul 18, 2013 7:38 pm

I generally sharpen the entire photo in one pass using a duplicate layer and then using a layer mask I "erase" sharpening in select areas if/where needed.

My method: Duplicate layer.
Sharpen using USM at 500% radius .2 threshold 2.
Create later mask
Using a brush at 25% opacity, I "paint" over areas that appear over sharp. Repeat as necessary.
Flatten layers. Done.

If I need to sharpen aircraft only, I duplicate layer and sharpen the bottom layer and using a layer mask on top layer, I "paint" in the sharpened aircraft from the bottom layer.

Very simple and offers great control.
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vikkyvik
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RE: Editing Questions

Thu Jul 18, 2013 8:03 pm

Quoting Silver1SWA (Reply 9):
My method: Duplicate layer.
Sharpen using USM at 500% radius .2 threshold 2.
Create later mask
Using a brush at 25% opacity, I "paint" over areas that appear over sharp. Repeat as necessary.
Flatten layers. Done.

Random question - why do you need to create a layer mask? I do basically the same thing as you - duplicate layer, sharpen the duplicated layer, then erase on the sharpened layer as necessary with a brush at 50% opacity. What does the layer mask gain you?
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Silver1SWA
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RE: Editing Questions

Thu Jul 18, 2013 8:19 pm

Quoting vikkyvik (Reply 10):
Random question - why do you need to create a layer mask? I do basically the same thing as you - duplicate layer, sharpen the duplicated layer, then erase on the sharpened layer as necessary with a brush at 50% opacity. What does the layer mask gain you?

It gives you the ability to undo or reverse the changes, and at various strengths for even greater control. And you're not limited to Photoshop's history to go back and undo.
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ckw
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RE: Editing Questions

Thu Jul 18, 2013 9:15 pm

Quoting vikkyvik (Reply 10):
Random question - why do you need to create a layer mask?

Ask anyone how to do anything in PS and you'll find at least 3 or 4 different ways to achieve the same effect. Partly due to the way PS has developed over the years, partly due to the fact it tries to accommodate both photographers and graphic artists. There's not necessarily a 'best' method.

As a point of info, you can vary the strengths undo/reverse etc. with a duplicate layer as well. Which is better is a matter of personal choice, and perhaps what else you are doing with the image(s).

Cheers,

Colin
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vikkyvik
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RE: Editing Questions

Thu Jul 18, 2013 9:48 pm

Quoting Silver1SWA (Reply 11):
It gives you the ability to undo or reverse the changes, and at various strengths for even greater control. And you're not limited to Photoshop's history to go back and undo.

I see. Thanks.

Quoting ckw (Reply 12):

Ask anyone how to do anything in PS and you'll find at least 3 or 4 different ways to achieve the same effect. Partly due to the way PS has developed over the years, partly due to the fact it tries to accommodate both photographers and graphic artists. There's not necessarily a 'best' method.

I know. That's why I asked.... 
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DL747
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RE: Editing Questions

Thu Jul 18, 2013 11:36 pm

Quoting eskillawl (Reply 3):
I cant understand why you're saying this. It all depends on how soft/un crisp the aircraft is. With other words, there's no magic number to get the perfect sharpness, it all depends on how soft your photo is.

Hence why I said ish. Ish meaning that it can vary a lot. Most of my shots are around those values.

John
Just like the shirt says, Boeing Builds It Better!
 
Gasman
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RE: Editing Questions

Mon Jul 29, 2013 2:55 am

Does anyone use Lightroom for processing, as opposed to the full photoshop?
 
IL76
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RE: Editing Questions

Mon Jul 29, 2013 2:13 pm

http://www.airliners.net/faq/editing_guide.php

I wrote this manual many years ago when I was a screener. Please discard it, it's old and too complicated (it seems).

E
 
JOAOCS
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RE: Editing Questions

Mon Jul 29, 2013 3:31 pm

Quoting IL76 (Reply 16):
http://www.airliners.net/faq/editing_guide.php

I read it and liked it a lot.
 
mohammedzaheer
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RE: Editing Questions

Thu Aug 08, 2013 9:49 pm

One question...

when a photo gets rejected for being "soft" and I want to re-edit it making it sharper....is it best i start from scratch from the original photo or take the edited photo and run a pass or two of sharpen?

Thanks
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ptrjong
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RE: Editing Questions

Thu Aug 08, 2013 9:59 pm

Quoting mohammedzaheer (Reply 18):

The traditional method of sharpening is in several passes, so there should be little wrong with the latter method.

However, I always save an unsharpened full-size version of my edit, so I only need to resize and sharpen in case of an oversharpened rejection  
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vikkyvik
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RE: Editing Questions

Thu Aug 08, 2013 11:00 pm

Quoting mohammedzaheer (Reply 18):
is it best i start from scratch from the original photo or take the edited photo and run a pass or two of sharpen?

It depends. First of all, if your photo is too soft, no amount of sharpening will make it acceptable.

Second of all, depending on how many times you've already edited/saved the image, each time it will get more and more compressed and quality will decline.

But basically, if "soft" is the only rejection reason, and it's easily fixable, I'll just sharpen the already existing edit.

Quoting ptrjong (Reply 19):
However, I always save an unsharpened full-size version of my edit, so I only need to resize and sharpen in case of an oversharpened rejection

I do the same.
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mohammedzaheer
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RE: Editing Questions

Fri Aug 09, 2013 2:29 am

@ ptrjong: thanks that is a good idea, I will start doing this.

@ vikkyvik: yes the reason for rejection was only "soft" i'll try to do more sharpening on it.

Thanks
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VTORD
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RE: Editing Questions

Thu Aug 15, 2013 3:20 am

Do I absolutely need Photoshop to edit pictures to the quality of A.net? I am not very experienced so I am on a learning curve and get the part of getting the photograph right in the first place.

I am currently using Picasa and noticed that if I straighten the image even a tad, there is a perceptible loss in sharpness. Another thing I noticed when I was looking at some pictures I shot last weekend - they look way sharper in editing software that came with my camera (Canon T3i) than in Picasa. I mean the difference is big. Now I am wondering how many pictures I actually ended up screwing up because of this by my editing.

Can I get away with using Elements or something similar? If I don't want to invest in Photoshop right now?
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vikkyvik
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RE: Editing Questions

Thu Aug 15, 2013 3:37 am

Quoting VTORD (Reply 22):
Can I get away with using Elements or something similar? If I don't want to invest in Photoshop right now?

Short answer: yes.

Long answer: yes, you can.
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dazbo5
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RE: Editing Questions

Thu Aug 15, 2013 7:16 am

Quoting VTORD (Reply 22):
Do I absolutely need Photoshop to edit pictures to the quality of A.net?

No you don't

Quoting VTORD (Reply 22):
Can I get away with using Elements

That's all I've used for the last 10 years. Elements is more than enough for the basic editing you need to do for here.

Bear in mind the editing process should only be about tidying up a photo to present it for here; composition, level, minor exposure and colour balance tweaks, sharpening etc. You aren't doing any heavy editing. As long as you get things right in-camera, it's a straight forward job.

Darren
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G-CIVP
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RE: Editing Questions

Thu Aug 15, 2013 11:50 am

Quoting DL747 (Reply 1):
IMO, sharpening doesn't need to be this complex. Simply lasso the aircraft roughly, do one pass at 40ish, 0.8, and another at 20ish, 0.3. That is what I do with CS2 and it works fine. All this stuff is unnecessary.

LOL! I was taken through a method for editing photos for anet by a well known photographer and contributor. It involved sharpening the edges, removing jaggies with the eraser tool, using the lasso tool, creating layers, deselecting the sky, etc, etc. The average time it took to process a photo was 15 minutes!

As John and Colin suggest, you can cut out an awful lot of steps for uploading what are low resolution jpegs to the site. If your original photo is in focus and taken in good light (sic), there is very little need for substantial post processing. I would suggest the method roughly outlined by Darren is near the mark but bear in mind each photographer has their own methods and what works for them, may not work for you.
 
vikkyvik
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RE: Editing Questions

Thu Aug 15, 2013 2:49 pm

Quoting G-CIVP (Reply 25):
LOL! I was taken through a method for editing photos for anet by a well known photographer and contributor. It involved sharpening the edges, removing jaggies with the eraser tool, using the lasso tool, creating layers, deselecting the sky, etc, etc. The average time it took to process a photo was 15 minutes!

I do a lot of those - selecting only the airplane using lasso or magic wand on sky + select inverse, creating a separate layer, erasing jaggies, merging layers, etc., and that whole process only takes me about a minute. Editing a whole photo is probably around 3 minutes for a typical side-on for me. Could be faster if I tweaked the process further or focused more, but I'm pretty happy.

It's just a matter of getting used to a workflow and tweaking it to suit your needs.
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VTORD
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RE: Editing Questions

Fri Aug 16, 2013 4:13 am

Thanks for the input.
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ptrjong
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RE: Editing Questions

Fri Aug 16, 2013 9:19 am

Quoting VTORD (Reply 22):
Can I get away with using Elements

I used an old version of Photoshop for years. When it stopped working on a new computer I bought Elements 10.

It is fine, really. The Curves function is more primitive, but that should teach me not to overuse curves.

Oddly the thingy I miss most is that Elements doesn't tell you by how many degrees you are rotating the picture when applaying an 'arbitrary' rotation. Or can it somehow? This was sometimes helpful in making photos level for me.
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mohammedzaheer
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RE: Editing Questions

Thu Aug 22, 2013 1:48 am

My real problem is to know the right balance for sharpening and best way to achieve results.

I have started to use Lightroom as well now.

If anyone has preferred settings etc please do share.

Thanks
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G-CIVP
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RE: Editing Questions

Fri Aug 23, 2013 1:33 pm

I suggest you try 'trial and error' by starting at a low setting and slowly incrementing until you find what works for you.
 
mohammedzaheer
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RE: Editing Questions

Wed Aug 28, 2013 3:44 pm

Hi, can anyone tell me what is the best crop for this image?




I had this rejected and wanted to know what crop can i use.



Thanks
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vikkyvik
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RE: Editing Questions

Wed Aug 28, 2013 4:49 pm

Quoting mohammedzaheer (Reply 31):
Hi, can anyone tell me what is the best crop for this image?

I think the crop you did is probably your best bet. You could crop in to only the forward part, in front of the wing, but you'd probably lose too much quality that way.

With that said, I don't see that image among your rejections. When was it rejected?
I'm watching Jeopardy. The category is worst Madonna songs. "This one from 1987 is terrible".
 
mohammedzaheer
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RE: Editing Questions

Wed Aug 28, 2013 5:41 pm

Hi Vikkyvik,

I'm working with two websites and posting 2 here and 2 there, with some getting rejected i'm trying to improve the images before posting on the same or other website. By the looks of it depends on the screener or website and motives for crop.

I was in the process posting this image up next because of the rejection i'd rather get input on what is best to do with this image before posting on a.net. Now that you have said it looks fine i'll wait for the photos in queue to be screened and just sharpen a bit more and post it up.

 
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trevisan26
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RE: Editing Questions

Sat Aug 31, 2013 2:25 am

I think that i'm the only one that use Pixelmator (macbook), if anyone have used Pixelmator and Photoshop too, theres a big difference?
Thanks
 
mohammedzaheer
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RE: Editing Questions

Thu Sep 05, 2013 8:56 pm

Is it possible to make a blurry picture not so blurry by masking the aircraft and increase sharpening?

such as this picture...does it look blurry to anyone? can i apply more sharpening to it?

http://img62.imageshack.us/img62/9950/m2wx.jpg

[Edited 2013-09-05 13:58:01]
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vikkyvik
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RE: Editing Questions

Thu Sep 05, 2013 9:39 pm

Looks out of focus to me, rather than blurry. But either way, the amount of sharpening you'd have to apply would probably make it look terrible.
I'm watching Jeopardy. The category is worst Madonna songs. "This one from 1987 is terrible".
 
mohammedzaheer
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RE: Editing Questions

Fri Sep 06, 2013 3:51 am

Ok, so i'll scrap this one  

Thanks
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mohammedzaheer
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RE: Editing Questions

Sun Sep 15, 2013 2:01 pm

So I had an image rejected for:

Reject reason: spot removal above the horizontal stab is sloppy soft dirty personal

I did edit in lightroom for the spot removal, however didn't seem to be the best job. Is it best for me to export the image without resizing having the spot removed in another software or can lightroom actually remove spots and maybe I missed something?

If I can have it removed in another software after the edit what is the best recommendation removing dust spots?

Thanks

Mohammed
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mjgbtv
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RE: Editing Questions

Sun Sep 15, 2013 4:35 pm

Hi,

The editing guide has a step for dust spot removal in PS: http://www.airliners.net/faq/editing_guide.php

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