OlympicComet4B
Posts: 60
Joined: Sun Oct 22, 2000 4:14 am

Delta Is Aeroflot In Disguise

Tue Dec 26, 2000 7:07 am

Had a very bad experience today 12/25/00 Christmas Day. DL619 LGA to ATL. Flight was cancelled due to the Pilot slowdown ( which is much underplayed and kept really quiet by Big Daddy Delta).
They made very little effort to protect and re-book me on other flights. In fact they couldn't get me out of NYC until Thursday 12/28/00!!!
The agents were quite rude and told me that if I didn't like it I could get a refund and not fly at all!! They were under no obligation to provide transportation to me. Is that legal?? They were holding my money for that ticket for over 3 months! (Sounds like the old AEROFLOT!)
Anyway, I found a full fare Y ticket on CO out of EWR on the net (Travelocity) and made Delta book and pay for it, which they did reluctantly.
I also want them to pay for transportation to EWR since I was getting a free ride to LGA but had to cab it out to Newark, New Jersey to the tune of $65.00.
What do you all think, should they pay?
Anyone else inconvenienced by DL's slow-down?
Oh by the way Merry Christmas!!
 
mhsieh
Posts: 327
Joined: Thu Jul 20, 2000 2:28 pm

RE: Delta Is Aeroflot In Disguise

Wed Dec 27, 2000 10:47 am

YES...Delta has the passengers "by the balls" and they know it. It doesn't help when the agents have absolutely no courtesy and understanding for the passengers situation.
If the pilots are doing this...someone should TELL THE TRUTH and not insult peoples intelligence by saying it's the weather or act like the cancelation was planned because there is not enough passengers.
ONE gate agent had the "balls" (even though she is female) to tell me that it's routine that they cancel flights during the holiday season because a lot of flights are empty. So I asked her why then is it that when my flight got cancelled I was not booked on a different flight or why every other flight that was going to Southern California (SAN, SNA, ONT, LAX) was overbooked.
Shame on Delta management for the way they are treating the passengers.
 
OlympicComet4B
Posts: 60
Joined: Sun Oct 22, 2000 4:14 am

RE: Delta Is Aeroflot In Disguise

Wed Dec 27, 2000 12:19 pm

Today, all of Delta's flight from West Palm Beach Florida to New York's LaGuardia airport were cancelled. This is an outrage. Especially during the Christmas Holiday season when the New York to Florida route are extremely heavy.
Still NO MEDIA COVERAGE.
It totally amazes me to see what control these monopoly airlines have.
 
mhsieh
Posts: 327
Joined: Thu Jul 20, 2000 2:28 pm

RE: Delta Is Aeroflot In Disguise

Wed Dec 27, 2000 3:08 pm

I wonder if there is any legal action consumers can take against such outrages and arrogant behavior. I am not a lawyer but isn't it a basic right to get what you paid for??
Shouldn't someone from some consumer/governmental agency be investigating this sort of unethical corporate behavior?
 
NKP S2
Posts: 1665
Joined: Mon Dec 20, 1999 3:16 am

RE: Delta Is Aeroflot In Disguise

Thu Dec 28, 2000 3:41 am

Looking at the larger picture...I ask, why would an airline rely so heavily on pilots working ( or anyone else ) overtime to fulfill normal flight schedules, let alone heavy peak traffic? Poor planning. Sounds like a management problem to me... Someone electing not to work OT is "screwing" people? I don't think so. Don't forget who owns and manipulates the "soapbox". -- Where did I see this adage?:..."Lack of preparation on your part is not an emergency on my part".
 
Guest

RE: Delta Is Aeroflot In Disguise

Thu Dec 28, 2000 4:09 am

OlympicComet4b----

Read my trip report a little ways down on the main board called "NARITA-ATLANTA on DELTA"

Had terrible time in Atlanta following 12 hour flight from Narita, trying to make connection to Orlando...

 
OlympicComet4B
Posts: 60
Joined: Sun Oct 22, 2000 4:14 am

RE: Delta Is Aeroflot In Disguise

Thu Dec 28, 2000 7:21 am

Mhsieh,
I agree, there should be some kind of cosumer protection agency in action here, but it seems that DL is big and strong enough to siffle any consumer noise.
I am looking into it though.
Also
NKP S2,
It's really not a question of pilots being forced into doing gruelilng and dangerous over time. Every crew member is paid on minimum base flight hours (usually between 65 and 72.5 hours) monthly. However, the reality is that most of the crew trip lines carry 75 to 85 hours.
This has always been the case.
Technically, however, anything past the base line hours is considered over-time since the pay scale is based on the base flight hours.
The crews actually like this since they accumulate over-time pay at a higher rate.
The DELTA Pilots however, are in a general labor dispute with their company, not about over-time flying, but about pay scales, retirements benefits, etc..
So they are using this over-time loophole as a tool to gain control.
I DO NOT blame the pilots at all. It is DELTA'S greedy management that is to blame. They want it all. MONOPOLIZE the airways, charge high prices and keep wages frozen to maximize profit for the stock values and executive salaries.
Welcome aboard to the future of air travel in the USA my friends.
 
mhsieh
Posts: 327
Joined: Thu Jul 20, 2000 2:28 pm

RE: Delta Is Aeroflot In Disguise

Thu Dec 28, 2000 9:21 am

NKP S2, I don't think anyone here is implying that the pilots are screwing people over. This is a labor dispute and in a free country such as ours, workers do have a right to use these tactics to get what they want. That's not where the problem lies. THE PROBLEM IS DELTA MANAGEMENT!! What the pilots are doing is no secret to the management. The management knowing full well what the pilots are doing but then does nothing to advice or assist the passengers is the problem. Denial and decption is what pisses me off. If Delta were to issue a notice to it's passengers regarding this situation then I would not be so angry. Sure, they may lose some passengers during this time but at least they will show that they are respect their customers. Do they think the general public is so stupid that denying this problem will make it go away. The ticket agents are basically LYING about the reasons for cancellation!! If there is one thing I can't stand, it's LIARS!
 
blink182
Posts: 5273
Joined: Mon Oct 18, 1999 3:09 am

RE: Delta Is Aeroflot In Disguise

Fri Dec 29, 2000 3:47 am

I have been stuck in colorado springs for about 6 hours because of them. We were returning from a late summer getaway in Beaver Creek Colorado, and we had an early flight out. When we were checking in, they said our flight was cancled and they could have called us and let us know ahead of time when the next flight was out, so we could try to see if we could get another room at our hotel, but they didn't and if you have been to COS, you know how boring the airport is, no spotting whatso ever, literally no shops, no AA Admirals Club. We were stuck at a very boring airport forever it seemed like. They said it was a mechanical problem and still, they didn't put another 727 on the route(the assigned aircraft) and they booked us on an American flight at 5:30 pm ish, and our delta flight was supposed to leave at about 11:00 am. This was probably the one time where we wanted to be back home in Dallas.
rgds,
blink182
Give me a break, I created this username when I was a kid...
 
Guest

RE: Delta Is Aeroflot In Disguise

Fri Dec 29, 2000 6:53 am

Well, in case you missed it.....Weather conditions in the
eastern parts of the U.S hasnt actually been great for
flying...
I am quite sure that Delta is doing their best under the
circumstances, but I do agree, that some times agents
might be a little unpolite, but imagine if you are about
to tell the same story to 100|s of passengers.
It is fun to work in the airline business, but when some
people are entering the terminal building they leave
the brain outside.Off course the staff should be polite
to their passengers, but passengers could act just a
little less agressive towards the staff.
Me..you guessed I am an airline staff and proud
to say so...
 
jfidler
Posts: 359
Joined: Wed Aug 23, 2000 3:32 pm

RE: Delta Is Aeroflot In Disguise

Sun Dec 31, 2000 7:01 am

I had a surprisingly good experience on DL during the holiday season. I was scheduled IAD-CVG-MIA on 12/22, and return MIA-ATL-IAD on 12/24 (Christmas eve).

When I went to check in for my outbound flight, they tried to reserve seats on my return flight, and asked why I was double-booked on the return. I certainly hadn't done this, then they realized that the MIA-ATL flight was canceled on 12/24, and they had automatically booked me on the MIA-CVG flight routing instead. I was pleasantly surprised.

On outbound, my CVG-MIA flight was delayed 2.5 hours, but I'm used to delays on all airlines, and there was a bit of weather in the midwest, so I think it's reasonable.

Justin
 
Guest

RE: Blink182

Sun Dec 31, 2000 8:23 am

I got to see the airport for over 5 hours in July, because our friends were flying United, and we flew TWA. Our flight got in around 1:00, they were supposed to get in at 3, but they didn't get in until 6! The funny thing is that they flew in from Denver!
 
LOT767-300ER
Posts: 8526
Joined: Mon Jan 01, 2001 12:57 pm

RE: Delta Is Aeroflot In Disguise

Sun Dec 31, 2000 10:42 am

I H-A-T-E D-E-L-T-A
thats all there is too say!
 
azjubilee
Posts: 3380
Joined: Sat Apr 29, 2000 5:26 am

RE: Delta Is Aeroflot In Disguise

Wed Jan 03, 2001 6:30 pm

I'm not defending the airlines somewhat strange way of dealing with people. But think about this! There is a general pilot shortage in the USA. This is affecting all airlines! it's not like they can just massively recruit pilots from a pool of people answering a cattle call as if they're auditioning for a broadway show. Pilots are highly skilled and have a tremendous responsibilty.

People demand things and don't even think about the other side of the coin. Do you think the airlines like canceling flights just to screw the passenger? No. They don't make money when they cancel flights. In fact... they lose money!

I've been screwed by airlines before, but take it with a grain of salt. This whole "rights" for passengers stuff is a load crap. We don't deserve anything but safe transportation to and from our desinations. People have bad days and you'll feel their rath at times. You don't hear people boycotting MacDonalds for their personalityless employees that always screw orders up do you?

The point is that people expect the world and when they don't get it they bitch and moan. The general flying public is clueless when it comes to the WHY behind things. example... I was recently on a NW flight from MEM-LAX. We were delayed because of freezing rain and needed deicing. People were so pissed off it was unbelieveable!! Did NW owe us anything? The only thing they owed us was a safe flight (hence the delay for deicing people!!!) to LAX.

People relax and use your brains when things happen!


AZJ
 
Guest

RE: Delta Is Aeroflot In Disguise

Wed Jan 03, 2001 7:13 pm

I really feel for you Americans...your airlines are up to no good!! HELL, if a flight here in South Africa is half an hour late, the flightcrew get yelled at from here to Cairo!! "I'm going to miss my meeting because of this delay!" and "On my ticket, it says take off is at 12:00 so why did we take off at 12:30???!". Bitch bitch bitch bitch. And when the flight is good, nothing gets said. But that's what customers are, and whether the airlines like it or not, they have to make them happy. And they cannot kick you off their flights, and not put you on another one! It just shouldn't happen. Maybe if they paid their pilots more (with the number of aircraft and flights per day US airlines have, they should have enough money), then I'm sure they wouldn't get so many complaints! I think it all comes down to bad management. They know they've got such a HUGE market in the US, so they take advantage of it. I mean if a company's customers create a website like this one, http://www.untied.com or http://www.northworst.com, then they are in serious trouble. A company must be dumb to keep it's service so low that these websites appear!

And the service on your airlines isn't good either. When I flew from MIA-Orlando (forgot the code), I was only served a carton (not even a glass!) of minute maid Orange Juice. And it was the morning flight!!! Gimme a break! The flight time is 58 minutes. On a Johannesburg - Durban flight, which is 50 minutes, you would receive breakfast and a full drinks service.

However, I have actually had good experiences on Delta. I flew from La Guardia to Washington aboard Delta Shuttle in 1995, and the service was very good. Also from Washington to Orlando, the service was equally good.

I really feel sorry for you guys. The thing that you are missing in the states is a very good major carrier, that could offer competition to the others. It would be difficult though, because they're all so incredibly big, but, I dunno, maybe it could be done!

Tom  
http://www.geocities.com/airfreak48


She rulez the world!
 
mhsieh
Posts: 327
Joined: Thu Jul 20, 2000 2:28 pm

RE: Delta Is Aeroflot In Disguise

Thu Jan 04, 2001 3:05 am

AZJUBILEE,
What do you mean "rights" for passenger is crap?? I don't think anyone is demanding that the airlines fly no matter what the conditions are. Whether it's weather, mechanical, or labor problems...that's all reasonable excuses. What I am annoyed by is the lack of information from the airlines....ie, if they know the flights are gonna be cancelled, why don't they call the passengers or post the info on their websites or whatever so at least save people the trouble of going to the airport then getting stranded!!
How would you like it if you showed up for a doctor's or dentist's appointment and then told that he/she is on vacation?? Of course, if the doctor choose to cancel your appointment he should notify you so you don't have to waste your time.
According to Delta, they knew my flight was cancelled for SEVERAL DAYS...yet they did not call me or notify me by email! That's what I am pissed off about.
 
azjubilee
Posts: 3380
Joined: Sat Apr 29, 2000 5:26 am

RE: Delta Is Aeroflot In Disguise

Thu Jan 04, 2001 5:33 am

Do you remember when NW had the DTW snow storm fiasco in january of 1999? Well, there was then a huge cry for a "passenger bill of RIGHTS." This caused the airlines to conform to yet more government mandation on how to run their airlines. That's what I mean about rights... people think they have the right to gourmet dining on 45 minute flights or any flight for that matter! On the flight that I was on that had the deicing delay there was a woman sitting near me who had to call her office and tell them she was going to be late for a meeting. Why do people schedule their flights so close to their engagements? it's not the airlines fault there wasn't better planning on the customers side. it's a 2 way street isn't it.

Also, do you think the decision makers (often in other cities from where your flight is) actually tell the customer service people in a timely manner what's going on? If they don't know, they can't tell you. Why does everyone think there is always some sort of conspiracy against the flying public. People, the airlines can't tell you anything they don't know!!! Patience. As Americans we're so caught up in me, me, me, me, and I.


AZJ
 
mhsieh
Posts: 327
Joined: Thu Jul 20, 2000 2:28 pm

RE: Delta Is Aeroflot In Disguise

Thu Jan 04, 2001 8:51 am

The "decision makers" should get their act together. People lower down often get blamed even though it's not their fault. But, somewhere in the system, someone should be responsible. Why is it so wrong to expect decent service?? If you ordered a fridge from Sears and you take time off from work to be at home when they said they were gonna deliver it, then they just don't show up and not call, wouldn't you be mad?? Or as you put it, are you just being "selfish" and "impatient" ??
The passengers expectations are not unreasonable....if the airlines can't deliver what they promise, then they at least notify the passengers. Just b/c the agents don't know is NOT an excuse. Why should the passengers be penalized b/c the airlines are disorganized??
NO....it's not a conspiracy....it's disregard for the passengers and being disorganized.
 
azjubilee
Posts: 3380
Joined: Sat Apr 29, 2000 5:26 am

RE: Delta Is Aeroflot In Disguise

Thu Jan 04, 2001 11:40 am

Your comment about the airlines calling everyone to let them know about cancelations is unrealisitc. The reservations agents are the ones that have to do this and will when time permits. Can you imagine calling 1,000 or more people? Do you know how long that would take unless there was a very large dedicated staff? The customer should have the foresight to call the airline themselves... one should always do that before leaving for the airport. I agree with you, the airline somewhere needs to take responsibility. On the other hand so should the flying public. Customer service is a two way street and the passengers ought to have some understanding of what it takes to run an airline!

AZJ
 
AFJNY961
Posts: 24
Joined: Wed Jan 03, 2001 4:59 am

RE: Delta Is Aeroflot In Disguise

Thu Jan 04, 2001 1:08 pm

That's your opinion...
 
mhsieh
Posts: 327
Joined: Thu Jul 20, 2000 2:28 pm

RE: Delta Is Aeroflot In Disguise

Thu Jan 04, 2001 5:23 pm

If you have ever tried calling Delta, you will know how frustrating it is. It is almost impossible to get through to speak with a person....moreover, when you do get through (either a person or recording), some of the info is incorrect. In my most recent experience, I DID call before leaving for the airport. It took me over an hour to get through..and I had to use the automated flight info service which gave me the WRONG INFO!! It told me that my flight was leaving on time when in fact it was CANCELLED.
It is not easy to run an airline...nothing in life is easy. Passengers (esp. business travellers) are paying hard earned money for a service that is essential to their job. You said "Why do people schedule their flights so close to their engagement?"...has it ever occured to you that people may have very busy schedules and that's the only way they can get things done??
If you pay top dollars like business travellers, you should expect top service. Of course weather and mechanical problems (to a certain extent) are unforseeable but otherwise, why shouldn't we expect on time service. The rest of society is expected to be punctual, why are airlines any different??
 
Guest

RE: Delta Is Aeroflot In Disguise

Thu Jan 04, 2001 7:37 pm

There should just be an automated system that calls you from 8am-8pm, and earlier(or the previous day) to tell you that the flight has been canelled or delayed.
 
mhsieh
Posts: 327
Joined: Thu Jul 20, 2000 2:28 pm

RE: Delta Is Aeroflot In Disguise

Fri Jan 05, 2001 8:38 am

right on, Lowfareair....or maybe website with updated info, or automated email...just something to notify passengers
 
yak42
Posts: 662
Joined: Sun Oct 29, 2000 6:17 am

RE: Delta Is Aeroflot In Disguise

Sun Jan 07, 2001 8:19 am

Excuse me OlympicComet person but have you ever flown Aeroflot, I have,
DUB-SVO and it was one of the best flights I have ever taken, the fight departed on time, the aircraft was refurbished and the service was second to none.
Please think before you insult Aeroflot by associating it with your scrappy Delta.
 
ren41
Posts: 1456
Joined: Mon Jan 08, 2001 3:24 am

RE: Delta Is Aeroflot In Disguise

Sun Jan 07, 2001 1:13 pm

I never knew delta would do such a thing!!!

Ren41
 
OlympicComet4B
Posts: 60
Joined: Sun Oct 22, 2000 4:14 am

RE: Delta Is Aeroflot In Disguise

Sun Jan 07, 2001 8:14 pm

Dear Yak42
Yes, I have flown Aeroflot when it was a Soviet Airline running by it's own rules. They would just cancel flights without any notice and leave you stranded for days. They too, would never answer their phones at reservations, and if they did, they would give you wrong information or lie outright. I should have specified, however, the "Old" Aeroflot as I agree the Russian Aeroflot is much better.

MHsieh,
You're absolutely right about it being unacceptable for DL to lie and treat their passenges this way.

I just flew in form FLL to LGA today on DL which was the return from my original trip I posted on December 25.
This time my flight #406, B767-300 new livery, left on 40 minutes late, they upgraded me, seat 1-B, so I didn't care, but things went smoothly for me. They served hot lunch, either a large bowl of fried rice with shrimp and mushrooms (tasted awful) or a chicken pizza? Had one complaint that the F/A's were not blocking off the F/C compartment from Y and all the people from the back were using the 1 Lavatory meant for F/C so the lines were never ending.
Smooth flight, great view of Manhattan on approach to LGA. Cool touchdown on a wet and snow bordered runway. Very hard reverse.

HOWEVER, FLL was chaos today. There were 10 cruise ships in today and there were MILLIONS of people everywhere. This can be very stressful on a regular day, but combine it with the Pilots slowdown, cancel about 1/3rd of the flights and there you have it - CHAOS.

People were totally lost. The flights to Boston and to LAX were cancelled. People were being re-routed all over the whole country, families were being split up, unaccompanied minors were going through LGA en route to BOS alone!!
The lady sitting next to me was going to Boston and then to LHR. Her BOS flight was cancelled, so they got her on the LGA, and they told her to take the shuttle from LGA to BOS - BUT - they didn't give her a ticket for the shuttle in FLL and the people at LGA had no idea what she was talking about and kept asking for her shuttle ticket!!! She kept repeating the situation but the ground staff at LGA just didn't want to understand. I told her to get a Red Jacket supervisor.
Also the shuttle terminal is quite far from the DL regular terminal at LGA, and they provided no ground transportation for this lady ( and her 75 year old husband). In fact, they would not even check her luggage throught to LHR or not even to BOS!!! She had no idea that there was a Pilot slowdown - being from the UK and not traveling very often at all, she just thought that this rude and un-caring behavior was normal for US air carriers.
You know what ? She just may be right at that!!
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