7e72004
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Cape Air First Flight To SBN Was Great!

Wed Nov 14, 2007 3:26 am

Hello all...i just got back from my day trip to South Bend in which i flew on the first flight on Cape Air up there. I am not sure how the rest of the day went, but from what i saw, everything was running very smoothly. I checked in without any trouble and got to the gate--the wait at security was not long--all metal detectors were open. The one interesting thing was that my Cape Air boarding pass was just a printout that would be set up as a boarding pass but was simply on the smooth computer paper. The guy at security was asking what it was and i mentioned that it is from Cape Air; he went to the other security agent and she had told him that the boarding passes are like that and that there were three of us coming through the checkpoint. (Does Cape Air have their own "boarding passes?"

Once it was time to Board, (they had us waiting at gate C3 at IND but when we boarded we were led down the escalator at gate C2 and out the door on ground level. There were only two passengers on my flight and one pilot. I boarded and the pilot asked if i wanted to sit in the right front seat...he indicated that it was a passenger seat, but i guess it also is used for a second pilot. The controls were right in front of me and i had to watch where i put my feet because the rudder controls were right there  Smile It was the first time i was able to get a bird's eye view...i mean literally. The flight was a little bumpy upon take off but was smooth the rest of the way. I got great video of the takeoff, some in flight, and then video of landing at SBN.

Once i got off, there was a gate agent for Cape Air that handed out "goodie bags" that had some stuff with "South Bend Regional Airport" on it but also a digital clock with world time, etc. that had a small plq type thing at the bottome that was blue in color and engraved with "South Bend, Indianapolis, Evansville-November 13, 2007."

It was definitely worth it. I have to say that the employees at Cape Air were probably the most courteous, outgoing, and a good group of employees. I think some of the other airlines can take a couple of lessons from Cape Air  Big grin
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csturdiv
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RE: Cape Air First Flight To SBN Was Great!

Wed Nov 14, 2007 3:39 am

Wow, I am jealous. Maybe I can drive sometime down from the Chicago area to IND and get to fly in the right seat to EVV to visit the folks.
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7e72004
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RE: Cape Air First Flight To SBN Was Great!

Wed Nov 14, 2007 3:43 am

I guess if you get there early enough you can get it. I am flying on them again next month  Smile
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7e72004
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RE: Cape Air First Flight To SBN Was Great!

Wed Nov 14, 2007 5:00 am

I just finished transferring the video to my computer-there was some other stuff on there as well from ATL, IAD...I will pare it down to just the Cape Air stuff and post it to You Tube.  Smile
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IAHFLYR
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RE: Cape Air First Flight To SBN Was Great!

Wed Nov 14, 2007 5:04 am

Cape Air is great. Excellent time on every flight I've had on them which is probably into the 50 flight segments and growing....love their operation.
Any views shared are strictly my own and do not a represent those of any former employer.
 
NASBWI
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RE: Cape Air First Flight To SBN Was Great!

Wed Nov 14, 2007 5:10 am



Quoting 7E72004 (Thread starter):
There were only two passengers on my flight and one pilot. I boarded and the pilot asked if i wanted to sit in the right front seat...he indicated that it was a passenger seat, but i guess it also is used for a second pilot.

I'm glad you enjoyed your flight.  smile  I believe that the FAA requires 2 pilots only if the aircraft seats more than 9 people. Just as a flight attendant is only required after 19 people, and 2 FAs after 50 people, etc... of course, airline's policy can supercede FAA's, but that's the stipulation last I saw.
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7e72004
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RE: Cape Air First Flight To SBN Was Great!

Wed Nov 14, 2007 5:13 am

I hope that the service ends up doing well overall and they end up staying for a long time. Perhaps, at some point, they can "hook up" with another airline and offer connecting service. I have to wonder though with the price of round trips costing approx. $200, if it can be "economically positive." I hope that it is because it is worth it and was needed  Smile
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SkyexRamper
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RE: Cape Air First Flight To SBN Was Great!

Wed Nov 14, 2007 6:40 am



Quoting NASBWI (Reply 5):
airline's policy can supercede FAA's, but that's the stipulation last I saw.

Only if the airline's policy is greater than the FAA's. But I believe the FARs are that if the airplane is certified for single pilot OPs and that there is an operable A/P than single pilot OPs is legal as it is on the Part 135 side.
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rampguy
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RE: Cape Air First Flight To SBN Was Great!

Wed Nov 14, 2007 9:21 am

WISHTV in Indianapolis did a story on this first day. They mentioned that there had been about 2000 tickets sold for November and December and the number for January were looking good too. So if this is successful, there might be a demand for a larger aircraft. What would happen to Cape Air if that does happen? Sounds like the one person who told me that a 9-passenger aircraft was just right and I thought it should be at least a 19-seater. Thet person might be eating their words.

Also what about the flight crew and aircraft rotation? Somehow the crew and aircraft will need to get back to Cape Cod for general Maint and the crew will need to get back to their home? There's no way thet Cape Air would have scheduled flight from Indiana to Cape Cod on those tiny little puddle jumpers.
 
bond007
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RE: Cape Air First Flight To SBN Was Great!

Wed Nov 14, 2007 1:25 pm



Quoting SkyexRamper (Reply 7):
But I believe the FARs are that if the airplane is certified for single pilot OPs and that there is an operable A/P than single pilot OPs is legal as it is on the Part 135 side.

..of course, the insurance requirements are usually dictating this, above and beyond the FAA and operator's ops, but I guess they're OK in this case.

Quoting NASBWI (Reply 5):
I believe that the FAA requires 2 pilots only if the aircraft seats more than 9 people.

Yes, because that would mean it's no longer Part 135, but Part 121.

Jimbo
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IAHFLYR
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RE: Cape Air First Flight To SBN Was Great!

Wed Nov 14, 2007 2:51 pm



Quoting RampGuy (Reply 8):
What would happen to Cape Air if that does happen?

My guess, add additional flights if needed. I believe they still have ATR42 for Continental Air Mic ops in Guam but really doubt those would be brought in.......on the Florida routes Cape Air would add an extra section when demand was high, also for baggage when weight and balance dictated.

Quoting RampGuy (Reply 8):
Somehow the crew and aircraft will need to get back to Cape Cod for general Maint and the crew will need to get back to their home?

Non-Rev often or maybe they have a crew base they are establishing in the midwest.
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Mir
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RE: Cape Air First Flight To SBN Was Great!

Wed Nov 14, 2007 3:36 pm



Quoting 7E72004 (Reply 6):
Perhaps, at some point, they can "hook up" with another airline and offer connecting service.

Don't they already do this with B6?

Quoting RampGuy (Reply 8):
So if this is successful, there might be a demand for a larger aircraft. What would happen to Cape Air if that does happen? Sounds like the one person who told me that a 9-passenger aircraft was just right and I thought it should be at least a 19-seater. Thet person might be eating their words.

I wouldn't think so. Cape Air's bread and butter Northeast operation has a lot of demand as well, but they're still using the twin Cessnas on those routes, preferring frequency over capacity. If they have more demand than capacity in Indiana, they'll probably just add more 9-seaters.

-Mir
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7e72004
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RE: Cape Air First Flight To SBN Was Great!

Wed Nov 14, 2007 3:57 pm

Yeah..they do that with B6, but i mean at IND. And i don't think B6 serves IND  Big grin
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SkyexRamper
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RE: Cape Air First Flight To SBN Was Great!

Wed Nov 14, 2007 4:06 pm



Quoting 7E72004 (Thread starter):
The one interesting thing was that my Cape Air boarding pass was just a printout that would be set up as a boarding pass but was simply on the smooth computer paper. The guy at security was asking what it was

I had this same kind of event at BOS with Midwest kiosk tickets, which are thin waxy paper. I did a day trip to BOS and had printed out both the outbound and inbound to MKE legs at the MKE kiosk so I didn't need to waste time checking in at BOS. So I walk up to the TSA guy in BOS and show him the print out and he looked at it real hard and then asked where I got it in a freaked out voice tone. So I told him and reasured him that they were legit Midwest print outs. I didn't get through and had to go to the ticket counter to get a "real" ticket. I understand BOS being the starting point to 9/11 and they're probably very on edge but I don't get any questions asked at DCA which you would think as a higher security airport.
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bond007
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RE: Cape Air First Flight To SBN Was Great!

Wed Nov 14, 2007 4:16 pm



Quoting SkyexRamper (Reply 13):
So I walk up to the TSA guy in BOS and show him the print out and he looked at it real hard and then asked where I got it in a freaked out voice tone. So I told him and reasured him that they were legit Midwest print outs. I didn't get through and had to go to the ticket counter to get a "real" ticket.



Quoting 7E72004 (Thread starter):
was simply on the smooth computer paper. The guy at security was asking what it was and i mentioned that it is from Cape Air; he went to the other security agent and she had told him that the boarding passes are like that and that there were three of us coming through the checkpoint. (Does Cape Air have their own "boarding passes?"

How is this any different than the 20 different types of home-printed boarding passes, and different kiosk printed passes??

Jimbo
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7e72004
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RE: Cape Air First Flight To SBN Was Great!

Wed Nov 14, 2007 4:22 pm

I think it would be easier to "copy" this boarding pass as opposed to another airline's boarding pass. Most of the other boarding passes, even when printed out at home, have the airline insignia, or bar code, etc.  


Boarding pass from Cape Air for IND-SBN


[Edited 2007-11-14 08:23:32]
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SkyexRamper
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RE: Cape Air First Flight To SBN Was Great!

Wed Nov 14, 2007 5:02 pm



Quoting Bond007 (Reply 14):
How is this any different than the 20 different types of home-printed boarding passes, and different kiosk printed passes??

I have not a clue, but I was not about to argue with the guy because there was already another TSA agent that was walking up because he probably saw us talking about the pass.
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thegreatchecko
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RE: Cape Air First Flight To SBN Was Great!

Wed Nov 14, 2007 5:30 pm



Quoting NASBWI (Reply 5):
I'm glad you enjoyed your flight. smile I believe that the FAA requires 2 pilots only if the aircraft seats more than 9 people. Just as a flight attendant is only required after 19 people, and 2 FAs after 50 people, etc... of course, airline's policy can supercede FAA's, but that's the stipulation last I saw.

§ 135.101 Second in command required under IFR.

Except as provided in §135.105, no person may operate an aircraft carrying passengers under IFR unless there is a second in command in the aircraft.

§ 135.105 Exception to second in command requirement: Approval for use of autopilot system.

(a) Except as provided in §§135.99 and 135.111, unless two pilots are required by this chapter for operations under VFR, a person may operate an aircraft without a second in command, if it is equipped with an operative approved autopilot system and the use of that system is authorized by appropriate operations specifications. No certificate holder may use any person, nor may any person serve, as a pilot in command under this section of an aircraft operated in a commuter operation, as defined in part 119 of this chapter unless that person has at least 100 hours pilot in command flight time in the make and model of aircraft to be flown and has met all other applicable requirements of this part.

The best in FAA legalese, enjoy!

Checko
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7e72004
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RE: Cape Air First Flight To SBN Was Great!

Wed Nov 14, 2007 5:50 pm

http://www.youtube.com/v/-jVUlWHjvIk

here is a short video of the landing at SBN. .i have not added the full length video because my computer has to be adjusted or something...but for now...enjoy   Smile

[Edited 2007-11-14 09:53:06]
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7e72004
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RE: Cape Air First Flight To SBN Was Great!

Wed Nov 14, 2007 5:55 pm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ga1sdYqcIXA

Here is a short video of the take-off from IND. The quality is better when viewing it on my computer so i am not sure if it is confined or not.
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bond007
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RE: Cape Air First Flight To SBN Was Great!

Wed Nov 14, 2007 6:06 pm



Quoting 7E72004 (Reply 15):
I think it would be easier to "copy" this boarding pass as opposed to another airline's boarding pass. Most of the other boarding passes, even when printed out at home, have the airline insignia, or bar code, etc.

I'm so glad the TSA have a process in place to get familiar with new airline's paperwork prior to pax arriving at security. {end sarcasm}


Jimbo
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Cubsrule
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RE: Cape Air First Flight To SBN Was Great!

Wed Nov 14, 2007 6:13 pm



Quoting Bond007 (Reply 20):
I'm so glad the TSA have a process in place to get familiar with new airline's paperwork prior to pax arriving at security.

I'm not usually one to defend T.S.A., but at a lot of YX outstations, boarding passes will either be on stock (from the carrier that handles them) or off of the website. They wouldn't have any reason to know what a YX kisok boarding pass looks like.
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bond007
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RE: Cape Air First Flight To SBN Was Great!

Wed Nov 14, 2007 6:29 pm



Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 21):
They wouldn't have any reason to know what a YX kisok boarding pass looks like.

LOL ... you mean apart from the fact they have to make a security decision on whether it's a fake or not, and that's exactly why they check every one, twice (The TSA now, not contractors). Apart from that .... they wouldn't have any reason.


Jimbo
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Cubsrule
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RE: Cape Air First Flight To SBN Was Great!

Wed Nov 14, 2007 6:39 pm



Quoting Bond007 (Reply 22):
Apart from that .... they wouldn't have any reason.

Do you know what an SV boarding pass looks like?
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bond007
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RE: Cape Air First Flight To SBN Was Great!

Wed Nov 14, 2007 6:44 pm



Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 23):
Do you know what an SV boarding pass looks like?

Errrr yes .... do you know what the capital of Uruguay is?

Do I get a prize?

Jimbo
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Cubsrule
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RE: Cape Air First Flight To SBN Was Great!

Wed Nov 14, 2007 6:48 pm



Quoting Bond007 (Reply 24):
Errrr yes .... do you know what the capital of Uruguay is?

You've missed my point. Why train screeners on something they are never (or hardly ever) going to see? It's inefficient.
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bond007
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RE: Cape Air First Flight To SBN Was Great!

Wed Nov 14, 2007 6:56 pm



Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 25):
You've missed my point. Why train screeners on something they are never (or hardly ever) going to see? It's inefficient.

I don't think I did ... perhaps you misunderstand the role of the TSA.

Their JOB is to check boarding passes and decide whether they are fake or not (impossible, but that's another thread!).
They simply MUST be familiar with ALL types of boarding passes used at that specific airport in order to do their job. This flight will be a DAILY flight.

No, they don't need to know what a SV boarding pass looks like, or an EK, or a SQ .. unless they happen to have flights into their airport ... if they do, then you bet they need to know what it looks like.

Now, as I said, whether the check is meaningless or not, is another discussion entirely.

Jimbo
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Cubsrule
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RE: Cape Air First Flight To SBN Was Great!

Wed Nov 14, 2007 6:59 pm



Quoting Bond007 (Reply 26):
They simply MUST be familiar with ALL types of boarding passes used at that specific airport in order to do their job.

But you've misread the post. He didn't have one of the types of boarding passes used at that specific airport. He had a boarding pass he had printed at the kisok at MKE, not at BOS. Why should BOS screeners know what kind of boarding passes are issued at MKE?
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SkyexRamper
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RE: Cape Air First Flight To SBN Was Great!

Wed Nov 14, 2007 6:59 pm



Quoting Bond007 (Reply 26):
They simply MUST be familiar with ALL types of boarding passes used at that specific airport in order to do their job. This flight will be a DAILY flight.

I agree with you, it's not hard for TSA to know what 12 or less boarding passes look like. Or maybe the industry's boarding passes need to be standardized again, kiosks too.
Good Luck to all Skyway Pilots! It's been great working with you!
 
bond007
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RE: Cape Air First Flight To SBN Was Great!

Wed Nov 14, 2007 7:10 pm



Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 27):
He didn't have one of the types of boarding passes used at that specific airport.

Yes he did. He used it at that specific airport. He might have printed it at MKE, but he could legally present it at BOS  Smile

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 27):
He had a boarding pass he had printed at the kisok at MKE, not at BOS. Why should BOS screeners know what kind of boarding passes are issued at MKE?

.... because again, it's their job to know exactly that!

If it CAN be used at BOS, then they need to know what it should look like.

Quoting SkyexRamper (Reply 28):
Or maybe the industry's boarding passes need to be standardized again, kiosks too.

Agreed ... but all the time you print them at home on any old paper, then checking them at least twice, is almost pointless. You can print whatever you want to print on them, and if the correct name/date, flight nm, etc. is on it ... you'll get through.


Jimbo
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Cubsrule
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RE: Cape Air First Flight To SBN Was Great!

Wed Nov 14, 2007 7:39 pm



Quoting Bond007 (Reply 29):
If it CAN be used at BOS, then they need to know what it should look like.

So you're suggesting that screeners increase their knowledge of boarding passes at least five-fold... Why?
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bond007
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RE: Cape Air First Flight To SBN Was Great!

Wed Nov 14, 2007 7:46 pm



Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 30):
So you're suggesting that screeners increase their knowledge of boarding passes at least five-fold... Why?

Sorry .. if it's not obvious to you now, it never will be, so let's forget it!

Moving on .......


Jimbo
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EXAAUADL
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RE: Cape Air First Flight To SBN Was Great!

Wed Nov 14, 2007 7:50 pm

I hope they can get more than 2 pax per flight
 
Cubsrule
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RE: Cape Air First Flight To SBN Was Great!

Wed Nov 14, 2007 8:35 pm



Quoting Bond007 (Reply 31):
Sorry .. if it's not obvious to you now, it never will be, so let's forget it!

It's obvious to you, and I'm curious what you're thinking. Let's take an analogy... most law enforcement officers cannot recognize D.L.s from all 50 states. A police officer in Chicago is going to be able to sniff out a fake Illinois, Indiana, or Wisconsin license much more easily than a fake Wyoming license. The reason is that it's inefficient to train Illinois officers extensively in how to spot Wyoming fakes. However, most law enforcement agencies have a book (I don't remember who promulgates it) that contains detailed information on D.L.s from all 50 states and their security features, so that if they get something unusual, they have a place to go to look it up.

Why hold screeners to a higher standard?
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bond007
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RE: Cape Air First Flight To SBN Was Great!

Wed Nov 14, 2007 8:59 pm



Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 33):
Let's take an analogy... most law enforcement officers cannot recognize D.L.s from all 50 states. A police officer in Chicago is going to be able to sniff out a fake Illinois, Indiana, or Wisconsin license much more easily than a fake Wyoming license. The reason is that it's inefficient to train Illinois officers extensively in how to spot Wyoming fakes. However, most law enforcement agencies have a book (I don't remember who promulgates it) that contains detailed information on D.L.s from all 50 states and their security features, so that if they get something unusual, they have a place to go to look it up.

OK ...first, AFAIK, all officers, specifically those involved in checking IDs where it is a issue of national security (i.e. not just traffic cops), actually have training on exactly what each state's ID card looks like, and how to identify fakes. There are numerous seminars and training sessions developed specifically for this (trust me, I do know). So, those Illinois officers that really do need to know if a Wyoming ID is a fake, ARE specifically trained on what they look like. They certainly would never had seen a particular state's ID before.

Second ... you already mention that there IS a place they look it up anyway. Did the TSA have a book of all possible Midwest boarding passes?? My point .... they had no clue. They hadn't even seen one.

Lastly ... as of about 2005, there are fairly strict standards on what state drivers licenses look like, and what data they contain, and what security features they must have.... so perhaps not a good analogy to boarding passes.

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 33):
Why hold screeners to a higher standard?

Well, I'm not .. probably a less standard.

But, holding airport screeners to a higher standard than a traffic cop checking my license for speeding ???? Oh, just perhaps I might expect that ... and others might too!


Jimbo
I'd rather be on the ground wishing I was in the air, than in the air wishing I was on the ground!
 
ATAIndy
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RE: Cape Air First Flight To SBN Was Great!

Wed Nov 14, 2007 9:58 pm

Wow, back to the discussion about Cape Air...

Quoting RampGuy (Reply 8):
So if this is successful, there might be a demand for a larger aircraft.

I doubt it, Cape Air probably wants to stick with the one pilot plan already in place to cut costs.

Quoting IAHFLYR (Reply 10):
maybe they have a crew base they are establishing in the midwest.

Maybe in the future if they plan on expanding operations in the Midwest, but at the moment that doesn't sound economical.

Quoting Mir (Reply 11):
If they have more demand than capacity in Indiana, they'll probably just add more 9-seaters.

 checkmark  I can almost guarantee that's what they would do.
Boiler up! - Next flights: IND-MIA, MIA-IND
 
7e72004
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RE: Cape Air First Flight To SBN Was Great!

Wed Nov 14, 2007 10:33 pm

I am not surprised to see that only 2 people were on my flight yesterday...the other guy was someone who had flown up from Evansville on the same plane. With 2000 tickets already sold for November and December, i am sure more people took other flights yesterday.  Smile
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7e72004
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RE: Cape Air First Flight To SBN Was Great!

Wed Nov 14, 2007 10:42 pm

I think the future looks promising...with that many tickets sold already...and at least one more (i just bought another one *lol*), i would not be surprised if they add more flights sometime next year. I think they need to set up something with NW or FL so that some passengers can connect to Florida, etc.
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JetBlueGuy2006
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RE: Cape Air First Flight To SBN Was Great!

Thu Nov 15, 2007 2:05 am



Quoting 7E72004 (Reply 37):
i would not be surprised if they add more flights sometime next year. I think they need to set up something with NW or FL so that some passengers can connect to Florida, etc.

2,000 tickets for a smalll airline with small planes is a good thing.

I would think that they would try to set something up with FL more than NW since they already have something like that with B6 out of BOS.

However, maybe they could get like a couple E170 or 175's to do it themselves. Won't happen, but you never know.
Home Airport: Capital Region International Airport (KLAN)
 
7e72004
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RE: Cape Air First Flight To SBN Was Great!

Thu Nov 15, 2007 4:57 am

The videos are posted to You Tube...i had to cut it up into 8 parts because of the size limit each video could be as well as the fact that i would have been here until next week *lol*
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Cubsrule
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RE: Cape Air First Flight To SBN Was Great!

Thu Nov 15, 2007 6:18 pm



Quoting Bond007 (Reply 34):
So, those Illinois officers that really do need to know if a Wyoming ID is a fake, ARE specifically trained on what they look like. They certainly would never had seen a particular state's ID before.

Are you seriously suggesting that LEOs remember that training individually for licenses from all 50 states?

Quoting Bond007 (Reply 34):
But, holding airport screeners to a higher standard than a traffic cop checking my license for speeding ???? Oh, just perhaps I might expect that ... and others might too!

But we don't expect that. Based on pay, I'd say we expect about 30% as much competence (however that is quantified).
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redngold
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RE: Cape Air First Flight To SBN Was Great!

Thu Nov 15, 2007 11:36 pm

Now the videos "have been removed by the user" according to YouTube.
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7e72004
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RE: Cape Air First Flight To SBN Was Great!

Fri Nov 16, 2007 5:08 am

THey are up there. I just watched them  Smile
The next generation of aircraft is just around the corner!
 
B747forever
Posts: 12884
Joined: Mon May 21, 2007 9:50 pm

RE: Cape Air First Flight To SBN Was Great!

Fri Nov 16, 2007 4:18 pm

Wow, what a great opportunity you got. Wish that I also could get this opportunity.

The videos doesn't work.

Thank you for sharing.

B747forever.
Work Hard, Fly Right
 
coerj
Posts: 216
Joined: Sun Dec 04, 2005 12:49 pm

RE: Cape Air First Flight To SBN Was Great!

Sat Jan 12, 2008 9:48 pm

Who handles the ground operations for Cape Air at these airports?

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