modesto2
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CO New BusinessFirst Flat-Bed 777 EWR-PVG

Wed May 12, 2010 1:19 am

With nearly three weeks for vacation, it was time for another non-revenue trip with my parents! We made ambitious plans for our first visit to mainland China (traveled to Hong Kong in 2004) and split 11 days between Shanghai and Beijing. The loads on Continental were particularly challenging for this trip, and the only way I could make it work involved a later-than-expected departure (late April) coupled with a return in early May. Thankfully, CO flies to both Shanghai and Beijing from its EWR hub. Based on the loads, we flew into PVG and departed from PEK. I was slightly nervous about departing from PEK because the flight is often weight-restricted with substantial cargo. However, on our departure day, the flight had nearly 80 open seats, so I assumed that we would be "safe."

The most noteworthy aspect of both flights EWR-PVG and PEK-EWR involved CO's new flat bed seating arrangement in BusinessFirst. CO first started installation of these new seats near the end of 2009, and by the time of our trip, eight of the airline's fleet of 20 777s had been reconfigured with the new seats. It was pure luck that we managed to ride in newly reconfigured aircraft for BOTH flights! I anxiously watched the aircraft assignments in the days preceding each flight and threw a party when I discovered that aircraft #16 would take us to PVG and aircraft #13 would bring us home. Anyways, as luck would have it, we were treated to the new seats, so here's my report regarding this new and exciting experience!

CO87, EWR-PVG, 777-224ER ship #16

As non-revenue travelers, we flew in the night before from our hometown of San Francisco. It was quite the scenic route for our journey to PVG, especially considering how UA offers a non-stop from SFO to PVG. However, the benefits of have three passengers travel for free in BusinessFirst far outweighed the minor inconvenience of flying to EWR first and spending the night.

We arrived in EWR with plenty of time and checked in at a self-service kiosk. Interestingly, as travelers to Shanghai, we needed assistance from the agents who were responsible for verifying our Chinese visas. We seamlessly joined the employee security line and escaped the wrath of EWR's TSA after what seemed like an eternity. Our aircraft was resting at gate C102. On that day, the flight was fairly full with just 30 available seats in economy and about 10 available seats in BusinessFirst. Based on the non-revenue standby list, I was quite confident that my parents and I would be upgraded.

Approximately one hour prior to departure, the gate agents cleared the non-revenue customers, and my parents and I received our seats assignments in the last row of BusinessFirst, seats 11A, 11B, and 11D. With still one hour remaining, we ran to the Presidents Club and enjoyed some refreshments before boarding.

I took this photo from the Presidents Club. Our aircraft, ship #16, rests prior to operating CO87 to PVG. Ramp personnel are loading LD-3 containers into the cargo bays.
http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh232/chiudog/China/IMG_2268.jpg

http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh232/chiudog/China/IMG_2269.jpg

Approximately 30 minutes prior to departure, we departed the Presidents Club and returned to gate C102 and boarded the 777. I was anxiously awaiting that first moment when I laid eyes on the new seats. They were awesome! CO's old BusinessFirst seats leave much to be desired in an increasingly competitive in-flight product environment that now demands flat-bed seating and many amenities. The seats are still arranged in a 2 - 2 - 2 configuration, but the two seats on the left of the aircraft are angled left while the remaining four seats in each row and angled to the right. While some people may prefer the herringbone design (like DL and AC), I prefer the more traditional layout where seats are directly adjacent to each other. I find this design more conducive to talking and socializing when I travel with friends and family. However, I can certainly understand why many business people probably prefer the herringbone design that allows direct-aisle access for each customer.

Here's a photo of my seat, 11B.
http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh232/chiudog/China/IMG_2275.jpg

Another photo from the front, looking back towards economy.
http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh232/chiudog/China/IMG_2274.jpg

The seats offer 6 feet, 6 inches of "bedding" and a 15 inch screen with audio and video on-demand.
http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh232/chiudog/China/IMG_2299.jpg

The hard shells that protect each seat offer ample privacy. However, one flight attendant on the flight expressed her desire to have even more privacy with higher "walls." A small divider rests between each pair of seat - maybe it'd be nice if it was adjustable?
http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh232/chiudog/China/IMG_2295.jpg

Looking across row 11 at the middle seats.
http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh232/chiudog/China/IMG_2296.jpg

The seats even came with instructions!
http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh232/chiudog/China/IMG_2283.jpg

http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh232/chiudog/China/IMG_2282.jpg

Behind each seat, passengers can find a little storage area. This was one of my favorite features! I stuffed anything and everything in there! This photo shows the power port and other connecting options.
http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh232/chiudog/China/IMG_2277.jpg

Below the TV screen, a shelf has enough space to store books, magazines, toiletry kits, and more. Just be careful, and don't store anything during the take-off roll. If you do, it's sliding back right at you!
http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh232/chiudog/China/IMG_2278.jpg

The individual remote is well-designed and allows users to make entertainment selections from the comfort of a reclined position.
http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh232/chiudog/China/IMG_2313.jpg

The menu cover:
http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh232/chiudog/China/DSCN1019.jpg

Appetizers and main courses:
http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh232/chiudog/China/DSCN1020.jpg

The pilots dealt with a maintenance issue that resulted in nearly a one hour delay. However, considering how such long international flights are "over blocked," we only arrived about 30 minutes behind schedule. We pushed from the gate and taxied to runway 22R for departure. The departure was uneventful, and we quickly turned northwest and started our track over Canada and the Pole.

The flight attendants started with warm nuts, followed by the corn soup, coconut shrimp, and egg roll. All were very tasty and well-prepared. I absolutely love CO's BusinessFirst food and never hesitate to eat it all!
http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh232/chiudog/China/IMG_2288.jpg

http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh232/chiudog/China/IMG_2286.jpg

Next up was the salad:
http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh232/chiudog/China/IMG_2291.jpg

Finally, I was ready for my noodle bowl with scallops and lobster - delicious!
http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh232/chiudog/China/IMG_2293.jpg

As always, dinner ended with CO's fantastic ice cream sundae service!
http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh232/chiudog/China/IMG_2298.jpg

This was my dad's sundae:
http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh232/chiudog/China/DSCN1023.jpg

After some wine and a lots of food, I fell into a deep sleep. However, I still managed a photo of the moving map display:
http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh232/chiudog/China/IMG_2303.jpg

The flat bed design was very conducive to sleeping. In fact, at some points, I was sleeping on my stomach. With 6 feet, 6 inches of bed, my height of 5 feet, 10 inches fit very well. In the fully reclined position, feet have just enough room to fit beneath the shelf and heads are "protected" by the hard shell. The arm rest adjacent to the aisle is also adjustable. With the push of a button, it can be raised or lowered.
http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh232/chiudog/China/IMG_2306.jpg

Mid-flight, I took the opportunity to take some photos as we overflew Russia:
http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh232/chiudog/China/IMG_2300.jpg

Looks cold!
http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh232/chiudog/China/IMG_2301.jpg

http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh232/chiudog/China/IMG_2307.jpg

The flight attendants served a fantastic soup noodle bowl as the mid-flight refreshment:
http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh232/chiudog/China/IMG_2309.jpg

After more eating, it was time for more sleeping! I took another nap and also took some time to read up on my Lonely Planet tour book.

Here's the view in my mostly reclined position. So comfortable  http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh232/chiudog/China/IMG_2304.jpg

Nearing the end of the 13 hour 57 minute flight, the flight attendants served a pre-arrival meal - basically breakfast. It started with fruit, and then I ordered the omelet.
http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh232/chiudog/China/IMG_2311.jpg

http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh232/chiudog/China/IMG_2312.jpg

After another tasty meal, I washed up and prepared for our arrival to Shanghai Pudong.
http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh232/chiudog/China/IMG_2314.jpg

Overall, it was an awesome flight. This was my very first flight with any kind of flat bed seats, nevertheless CO's new seats. For an American business class product, I'm confident that it will be competitive, at least against other U.S. carriers. As an industry enthusiast, it's so exciting to see how air travel has evolved, even in just the past 10 years. I can't even imagine what air travel will be like in another 10 years.

As always, comments are welcomed and greatly appreciated!

Cheers,
modesto2
 
767747
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RE: CO New BusinessFirst Flat-Bed 777 EWR-PVG

Wed May 12, 2010 1:30 am

Modesto2,

Great report on Continental's Business First's new lie flat seats. They look very nice, and the cabin seems so open in one of your pictures! I also really enjoy Continental's food; as I remember when we traveled to MAN from EWR in Business First a few years back we had really good meals.

Looking forward to your return flight!

767747
I love to fly!
 
salvation
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RE: CO New BusinessFirst Flat-Bed 777 EWR-PVG

Wed May 12, 2010 2:32 am

thank you, thank you, thank you.

i'm flying to LHR in July and can't wait!

safe travels.
 
b707forever
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RE: CO New BusinessFirst Flat-Bed 777 EWR-PVG

Wed May 12, 2010 3:20 am

Thanks for the report. The difference between the older BusinessFirst and the flat bed is huge. Makes the gap between Y and J like the idfference between Y and P. I wonder if CO should consider, and perhaps now as UA will consider, a mid-product between Y and J, a Y+ on these long haul 777s.

I wonder which seat the new UA will settle on. If the outside of the aircraft will reflect CO cabins on the 777s, will the interiors also?
 
ualcsr
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RE: CO New BusinessFirst Flat-Bed 777 EWR-PVG

Wed May 12, 2010 3:22 am

Great TR!! I really do hope the new United keeps CO's caterer; the food does seem miles ahead of what you get on UA.
 
etoile
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RE: CO New BusinessFirst Flat-Bed 777 EWR-PVG

Wed May 12, 2010 5:52 am

Ah, so you're the guy who always puts up the window shade in the middle of the flight
 
EL-AL
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RE: CO New BusinessFirst Flat-Bed 777 EWR-PVG

Wed May 12, 2010 6:08 am

Hey modesto2,

Thx for the report. I was wondering how CO's new B/F class looks like, I think the new class will help CO compeating LY on the EWR-TLV route, a market that El Al had the upper hand so far when it come to C class.

Thx again,

LY
every day is a good day to fly
 
lychemsa
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RE: CO New BusinessFirst Flat-Bed 777 EWR-PVG

Wed May 12, 2010 3:53 pm

CO food in C looks excellent.

Just flew to London CO in Y class and the food / lunch was "awful as usual." It seems that Weight Watchers is doing their catering for under 4 dollars a meal, while airlines such as AF probably spend double.

In addition they are now charging 100 dollars for a 2nd suitcase to Europe (roundtrip) while many non US airlines still do not.
 
fly2yyz
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RE: CO New BusinessFirst Flat-Bed 777 EWR-PVG

Wed May 12, 2010 9:52 pm

Awesome trip report! The seats look really comfortable! I would much prefer these type of seats rather than what AC has, as you mentioned, Herringbone! Blah! It feels really constraining and claustraphobic. Hope you had a great time in China!
 
shamrock321
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RE: CO New BusinessFirst Flat-Bed 777 EWR-PVG

Wed May 12, 2010 10:43 pm

Great report, do we get the return PEK-EWR flight?
 
IAHFLYR
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RE: CO New BusinessFirst Flat-Bed 777 EWR-PVG

Wed May 12, 2010 11:27 pm

Another excellent TR Modesto.....can't wait to see if I get the new seats on an upcoming trip. Thanks for the pictures along the way and of the continued nice sampling of food.

Hope all is well, long time no see!!  
Any views shared are strictly my own and do not a represent those of any former employer.
 
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Fiveholer
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RE: CO New BusinessFirst Flat-Bed 777 EWR-PVG

Thu May 13, 2010 12:56 am

Sweet! My wife and I did IAH-NRT-IAH a month or so ago to try the new seats. We also had 11A/B on the outbound. I didn't sleep as much of the flight over due to the daylight for 13 hours but I did sleep for several hours. On the way back, I did sleep for about 7 of the 11 1/2 hour flight home! Amazing comfort to me and I am 6'1". I really enjoyed them and I hope to try them to Europe at some point on the smaller 757. Nice report.

Danny
Bring back Bethune!
 
dalalways
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RE: CO New BusinessFirst Flat-Bed 777 EWR-PVG

Thu May 13, 2010 2:15 am

The food looks amazing......however it may just be the change in my eating habits that make me feel that way...LOL
 
lucky777
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RE: CO New BusinessFirst Flat-Bed 777 EWR-PVG

Thu May 13, 2010 4:49 am

Ouch...2-2-2 configuration? DAL offers a 1-2-1 configuration on their 777LR (the ER's will soon be) Seems CAL may be at a competitive disadvantage compared to their rival.
 
codc10
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RE: CO New BusinessFirst Flat-Bed 777 EWR-PVG

Thu May 13, 2010 5:31 am

Quoting lucky777 (Reply 13):
Ouch...2-2-2 configuration? DAL offers a 1-2-1 configuration on their 777LR (the ER's will soon be) Seems CAL may be at a competitive disadvantage compared to their rival.

Since when was 2-2-2 on a 777 "ouch"-worthy? At any rate, CO's bed is longer and wider than DL's herringbone configuration, angles toward the window, has a bigger PTV screen, iPod integration, and has 4 aisle seats per row. On the 777, DL has 43 aisle seats (out of 43) vs. 34 (of 50) on CO. Furthermore, CO now has more flat-bed equipped airplanes than DL. I'm not so sure CO is at such a competitive disadvantage.

If 2-2-2 is a problem, what about 2-4-2 on UA's 747/777? Or BA? I don't see many people complaining about those configurations.
 
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Fiveholer
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RE: CO New BusinessFirst Flat-Bed 777 EWR-PVG

Thu May 13, 2010 9:48 am

Delta is also squeezing 2-2-2 BizElite seating on their 764 where CO is 2-1-2. So, mileage may vary.

Danny
Bring back Bethune!
 
LH4116
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RE: CO New BusinessFirst Flat-Bed 777 EWR-PVG

Thu May 13, 2010 10:39 am

Great report!

I was very impressed with CO's new J product, it looks like a huge improvment from the old recliners they had in the past, and if I recon, they're been around since the 90's?

The food looked great as usual, IMHO CO seem to have a rather superior meal service in J, compared to the other US majors. Though the tableware seems a bit old, I think they should've put in some new plates with the introduction of the new seats...

Thanks for sharing!
//Jonas
SAS Plus is Business Class made faux!
 
ba319-131
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RE: CO New BusinessFirst Flat-Bed 777 EWR-PVG

Thu May 13, 2010 1:30 pm

Nice report and pictures, thanks for posting.

Quoting modesto2 (Thread starter):
I prefer the more traditional layout where seats are directly adjacent to each other

- Me to, don't like the herringbone layout.

The new CO seats are a huge improvement over the old seats, they were terrible, however as with AA's J seat, those in the window will struggle to access the aisle without disturbing their seat mate.

Food looks good as always, just wish they would ditch the crockery with something nicer.

Regards

Mark
111,732,3,4,5,7,8,BBJ,741,742,743,744,752,762,763,764,772,77L,773,77W,L15,D10,30,40,AB3,AB6,A312.313,319,320,321,332,333
 
modesto2
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RE: CO New BusinessFirst Flat-Bed 777 EWR-PVG

Thu May 13, 2010 2:28 pm

Quoting ualcsr (Reply 4):
I really do hope the new United keeps CO's caterer; the food does seem miles ahead of what you get on UA.

Yes, CO's food has always been superior. Well, I don't know what UA serves in international first but when compared with UA's international business, CO's BusinessFirst catering is always a step ahead.

Quoting Fly2YYZ (Reply 8):
I would much prefer these type of seats rather than what AC has, as you mentioned, Herringbone! Blah! It feels really constraining and claustraphobic.

I'd like to try the herringbone design, but I'd imagine that it could be quite isolating and confining. I'm sure it's nice for the aisle access, but especially when traveling with others, I doubt I'd like it as much.

Quoting shamrock321 (Reply 9):
Great report, do we get the return PEK-EWR flight?

Haha, I suppose I should post some of those pics. I really didn't take as many pics on the PEK-EWR flight, but just for you, I'll post 'em  
Quoting IAHFLYR (Reply 10):
Another excellent TR Modesto.....can't wait to see if I get the new seats on an upcoming trip. Thanks for the pictures along the way and of the continued nice sampling of food.

Hope all is well, long time no see!!

Where you going? How are things in IAH? I'm actually leaving ExpressJet in July to pursue an MBA, so this is one of my last non-revenue trip reports. I still have a few more international trips in the next couple months (Europe and India), so I'll make sure to report! You been working a lot lately? What's the latest and greatest from the IAH TRACON?  
Quoting Fiveholer (Reply 11):
My wife and I did IAH-NRT-IAH a month or so ago to try the new seats. We also had 11A/B on the outbound. I didn't sleep as much of the flight over due to the daylight for 13 hours but I did sleep for several hours. On the way back, I did sleep for about 7 of the 11 1/2 hour flight home! Amazing comfort to me and I am 6'1". I really enjoyed them and I hope to try them to Europe at some point on the smaller 757.

Ahhh, the life of a non-rev. I love it! Glad you enjoyed the new seats.

Quoting lucky777 (Reply 13):
Ouch...2-2-2 configuration? DAL offers a 1-2-1 configuration on their 777LR (the ER's will soon be) Seems CAL may be at a competitive disadvantage compared to their rival.

Not much to "ouch" about. The seats were very comfortable and spacious. Well, unless a 300 lb guy was trying to sleep...

Quoting Fiveholer (Reply 15):
Delta is also squeezing 2-2-2 BizElite seating on their 764 where CO is 2-1-2.

Good point. I always appreciated CO's decision to operate their 767 fleet with the 2 - 1 - 2 configuration instead of DL's more cramped 2 - 2 - 2 config.
 
lucky777
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RE: CO New BusinessFirst Flat-Bed 777 EWR-PVG

Thu May 13, 2010 5:24 pm

Quoting CODC10 (Reply 14):
Since when was 2-2-2 on a 777 "ouch"-worthy? At any rate, CO's bed is longer and wider than DL's herringbone configuration, angles toward the window, has a bigger PTV screen, iPod integration, and has 4 aisle seats per row. On the 777, DL has 43 aisle seats (out of 43) vs. 34 (of 50) on CO. Furthermore, CO now has more flat-bed equipped airplanes than DL. I'm not so sure CO is at such a competitive disadvantage.

Let's not fool ourselves here. Your clearly at a distinct disadvantage when you've crammed 6 seats across versus 4 like DAL. Simple mathematics would dictate as much. And DAL's seats have Ipod integration as well. Check out any youtube videos of CAL's new Business class seat and you'll notice that if your over 5'7, or 150 pounds, your shouders will be absolutely crushed when the seat is in the lie-flat position, hence, the reason you only see small ladies in the videos, not so with DAL's new seats, as the privacy walls flare out around the shoulder area. As for seat length, the CAL seat is an impressive 2 inches longer. And on a DAL 777, EVERYBODY has unfettered aisle access, unlike on CAL's offering. And DAL's entertainment offerings in Business class are second to none,

Our new 777-200LR ultra-long range aircraft feature 10.6” screens in BusinessElite. 200 movie choices are offered across a broad range of genres. The 777LR fleet also features 100 hours of HBO on Demand; more than 150 TV and short subject programs; more than 4,000 mp3s; 40 music videos, including 20 from Bollywood artists; a dedicated children’s area called “FlyKids;” and a suite of 12 video games and language tools. Additionally, BusinessElite customers have access to exclusive games not available in the Economy cabin.

Quoting Fiveholer (Reply 15):
Delta is also squeezing 2-2-2 BizElite seating on their 764 where CO is 2-1-2. So, mileage may vary.

Actually, DAL is moving to the 1-2-1 lie-flat configuration on all of the 767's.
 
codc10
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RE: CO New BusinessFirst Flat-Bed 777 EWR-PVG

Thu May 13, 2010 6:48 pm

Quoting lucky777 (Reply 19):
Check out any youtube videos of CAL's new Business class seat and you'll notice that if your over 5'7, or 150 pounds, your shouders will be absolutely crushed when the seat is in the lie-flat position, hence, the reason you only see small ladies in the videos

You must be talking about the DL 767-400ER BE flat beds, you know, the narrow ones with fixed armrests that measure 21.5" across at the seat cushion, but are clearly narrower at shoulder level.

I don't need a video, I've sat in CO's newest product and both of DL's flat beds, and all are very comfortable, but CO's new seat is outstanding. FYI, I'm not a woman, but a 6'2" 230lb guy. Furthermore, I wear a size 48L jacket, and my shoulders are most certainly not crushed in the bed position, even on the narrower 757 seat. I can't knock the DL seat at all (I'm not), in fact, I like it a lot, but CO has done an excellent job with its new product, and I have experience in both.

Quoting lucky777 (Reply 19):
Simple mathematics would dictate as much

You're absolutely right, the numbers don't lie... CO's 777 seat is 25" wide with armrests down, compared to 23.5" on DL, with no adjustable headrest. Perhaps insignificant, but wider is wider, and CO's dimensions win.

Quoting lucky777 (Reply 19):
privacy walls

Which incidentally provide a somewhat claustrophobic experience when the seat is fully reclined, and preclude conversation with a traveling partner, unless both seats are nearly upright.

Quoting lucky777 (Reply 19):
And DAL's entertainment offerings in Business class are second to none

Both are the same Panasonic eX2 system. Absolutely identical,

I can copy and paste with the best of 'em...

"Our 777 aircraft feature Audio Video On Demand entertainment systems in BusinessFirst and Economy. You can start, stop, pause or rewind your movies and music. The new BusinessFirst in-flight entertainment system features a choice of 250 movies, 300 TV shows, 3,000 songs, 25 interactive video games and the Berlitz Word Traveller Program, which allows you to learn languages in more than 20 languages. The system also provides a juke box feature that will allow you to make your own song list."

Also, the BF screen on flat bed equipped airplanes is 15.5" diagonal.

Quoting lucky777 (Reply 19):
Your clearly at a distinct disadvantage

I just don't see it that way. Both products are entirely competitive with each other, and easily on equal footing. You make it seem like we are comparing the business class products of SQ and OK...
 
MaverickM11
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RE: CO New BusinessFirst Flat-Bed 777 EWR-PVG

Thu May 13, 2010 7:21 pm

Quoting lucky777 (Reply 19):
Your clearly at a distinct disadvantage when you've crammed 6 seats across versus 4 like DAL.

Yes, clearly . From their respective websites:

DL: 23.5" wide, 76" long
CO: 25.0" wide, 78" long

Quoting lucky777 (Reply 19):
Simple mathematics would dictate as much

You need to check your math

Quoting lucky777 (Reply 19):
Actually, DAL is moving to the 1-2-1 lie-flat configuration on all of the 767's.

Do you not see that they're staggered, such that they're actually 2-2-2, but offset? In fact you could draw a line across the cabin and hit 8 seats.
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
Ps76
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RE: CO New BusinessFirst Flat-Bed 777 EWR-PVG

Thu May 13, 2010 8:00 pm

Hello(!),

Just to say many thanks for the report/pics etc. Flying Continental in Business for medium and long-haul definitely looks like the way to go(!) Nice food, nice bed, what more can you ask for(!) When I fly longer routes I'm normally stuck in economy watching movies and feeling very not rested. The only chance I get to lie down is when I'm flying on Ryanair in Europe and I have two free seats next to me(!) But this is definitely inspiring me to maybe spend the extra cash one day and really enjoy flying(!)

Many thanks,

Pierre
 
atlflyer
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RE: CO New BusinessFirst Flat-Bed 777 EWR-PVG

Thu May 13, 2010 8:32 pm

Is Continental continuing installation of this new seat since the merger or have they halted things until they make a decision on what product they will use? I'm thinking they probably will offer a mixture of 2 and 3 class aircraft. Use UA's product for 3 class and CO's for 2 class until they do a complete cabin refit in 5-10 years.
 
BA747400
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RE: CO New BusinessFirst Flat-Bed 777 EWR-PVG

Fri May 14, 2010 3:08 pm

Thanks for the TR. I just did this trip a few weeks ago (though in Y) and chose CO exclusively due to their international product (including the essential PTV's)...so glad i did. I wasn't able to get as much sleep as you did for obvious reasons, and gate to gate we were closer to 15hrs., but i would fly it again with CO in a heartbeat.

I think you may have the first TR on this route! I looked quickly before I left on my own flight, and didn't see anything.

Thanks again, glad you had a great time.
Mike
 
klkla
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RE: CO New BusinessFirst Flat-Bed 777 EWR-PVG

Sat May 15, 2010 12:37 am

Great trip report and great photos. The seats look very wide and comfy and the food presentation looked excellent. I can't help but think after the merger UA should go to this configuration. International First Class is a dinosaur and thing of the past on all but a few routes and this business class configuration looks much better than the current UA offering which I find to be very cramped. This looked open and inviting.

Quoting lucky777 (Reply 13):
Ouch...2-2-2 configuration? DAL offers a 1-2-1 configuration on their 777LR (the ER's will soon be) Seems CAL may be at a competitive disadvantage compared to their rival.

I don't think I would agree that this is a competitive disadvantage. I don't think very many people would make a purchase decision against flying CO because of these seats all things being equal. But I do like the herringbone seats on DL's 777s. On long haul international flights I like to sleep as much as possible and those seats offer so much privacy in sleep mode. I also like the fact that every passenger has direct aisle access.

Quoting CODC10 (Reply 14):
Since when was 2-2-2 on a 777 "ouch"-worthy? At any rate, CO's bed is longer and wider than DL's herringbone configuration, angles toward the window, has a bigger PTV screen, iPod integration, and has 4 aisle seats per row. On the 777, DL has 43 aisle seats (out of 43) vs. 34 (of 50) on CO. Furthermore, CO now has more flat-bed equipped airplanes than DL. I'm not so sure CO is at such a competitive disadvantage.

If 2-2-2 is a problem, what about 2-4-2 on UA's 747/777? Or BA? I don't see many people complaining about those configurations.

I would agree it's not 'ouch' worthy but direct aisle access is important to some passengers. By your own math you have a 33.3% chance of not having direct aisle access on CO and having to crawl over another passenger to use the restroom. But still, those seats look really comfy. For what it's worth I have heard people complain about the crazy layout of both UA and BA on here. I had the opportunity to try UA recently and was glad I got an aisle seat. I would have been very disappointed to get a middle seat in Biz and UA's service was as awful as always. I really hope CO's management can get UA to the same level as what I saw in this trip report. I was impressed.

Quoting Fiveholer (Reply 15):
Delta is also squeezing 2-2-2 BizElite seating on their 764 where CO is 2-1-2. So, mileage may vary.

No, all Delta 767s and 777s will have direct aisle access when converted (and likely the 747s too although they haven't announced the exact seats yet it's likely to be the same as on the 777s).

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 21):
Do you not see that they're staggered, such that they're actually 2-2-2, but offset? In fact you could draw a line across the cabin and hit 8 seats.

That's misleading. They are 1-2-1 on the 767. I have flown in them and they're very comfortable. As some have mentioned on here the seat cusion is somewhat narrow but that is more than compensated by the large table/space between seats which is great for setting your laptop on while eating or getting up to go to the restrooom. Now if you are a POS (Southwest lingo for a Person of Size IE overweight) it might be a little tight. But to say it's 'actually' 2-2-2 is plain wrong. Every seat has direct aisle access and you do not feel like the people behind you are in the same row.
 
MaverickM11
Posts: 15208
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2000 1:59 pm

RE: CO New BusinessFirst Flat-Bed 777 EWR-PVG

Sat May 15, 2010 1:59 am

Quoting klkla (Reply 25):
That's misleading

No it's not; the "1-2-1" is marketing to make you think that it's wider than a similar cabin that is 2-2-2, when in reality that may not be the case. EK's 380 J is "1-2-1" and is about as narrow as an average economy seat. I'm not going to debate the merits of different configurations, but calling it 1-2-1 is just as misleading, if not more so, than calling it 2-2-2, or even 2-4-2.
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
klkla
Posts: 625
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RE: CO New BusinessFirst Flat-Bed 777 EWR-PVG

Sat May 15, 2010 7:04 pm

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 26):
No it's not; the "1-2-1" is marketing to make you think that it's wider than a similar cabin that is 2-2-2, when in reality that may not be the case. EK's 380 J is "1-2-1" and is about as narrow as an average economy seat. I'm not going to debate the merits of different configurations, but calling it 1-2-1 is just as misleading, if not more so, than calling it 2-2-2, or even 2-4-2.

Again I have to call BS. I have flown in these seats obviously you haven't. They are not 2-2-2. They are 1-2-1.

#1 - Every seat has direct aisle access. That would be impossible with 2-2-2.
#2 - The seat is wider than the old recliner seats that were 2-2-2. But more importantky there is a lot more room between you and the next guy (assuming you are in the middle) and you get a lot more personal space. We all know you have a deep dislike for DL but you shouldn't mislead people with false statements.

But this is about CO and their new BusinessFirst seating which I think almost everyone would agree is very nice.
 
MaverickM11
Posts: 15208
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2000 1:59 pm

RE: CO New BusinessFirst Flat-Bed 777 EWR-PVG

Sat May 15, 2010 9:30 pm

Quoting klkla (Reply 27):
Again I have to call BS.

Fine. I think it's mostly PR since a good portion of the seat behind you is actually *next* to you but it doesn't matter.

Quoting klkla (Reply 27):
We all know you have a deep dislike for DL but you shouldn't mislead people with false statements.

That's news to me, as I very much like DL, and would also say the same thing about LX, EK, EY, or others that have similar configurations. No where did I say it was a bad thing, so there's no reason to get your panties in a bunch. Every carrier has to spread a similar amount of revenue over the same real estate, so it's no coincidence that most carriers have some variation of 2-2-2 seating in their premium cabin, whether straight across or offset like DL/EY/LX. It doesn't mean one is better than the other; they all end up with pretty much the same dimensions anyway. Which goes back to my original point to Lucky777, which you agreed, that a 2-2-2 arrangement isn't necessarikly a competitive disadvantage to a 1-2-1 layout since the dimensions are just about the same.
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
The777Man
Posts: 5911
Joined: Sun Jul 04, 1999 4:54 am

RE: CO New BusinessFirst Flat-Bed 777 EWR-PVG

Sun May 16, 2010 4:28 am

Very nice report with great pictures! The new BusinessFirst seats look very similiar to UA's new Business Class seats.

The777Man
Boeing 777s flown: UA, TG, KE, BA, CX, NH, JD, JL, CZ, SQ, EK, NG, CO, AF, SV, KU, DL, AA, MH, OZ, CA, MS, SU, LY, RG, PE, AZ, KL, VN, PK, EY, NZ, AM, BR, AC, DT, UU, OS, AI, 9W, KQ, QR, VA, JJ, ET, TK, PR, BG, T5, CI, MU and LX.. Further to fly.. LH 777
 
jbbmonster7
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RE: CO New BusinessFirst Flat-Bed 777 EWR-PVG

Sun May 16, 2010 5:16 am

Thanks for the TR. I just did this trip a few weeks ago (though in Y) and chose CO exclusively due to their international product (including the essential PTV's)...so glad i did. I wasnt able to get as much sleep as you did for obvious reasons, and gate to gate we were closer to 15hrs., but i would fly it again with CO in a heartbeat.

I think you may have the first TR on this route! I looked quickly before I left on my own flight, and didnt see anything.

Thanks again, glad you had a great time.
Mike

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