jfkflyer
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What's going on at Buffalo Airways?

Fri Nov 11, 2016 2:43 am

BuffaloAirways has been very quiet since the end of ice pilots, and their second C-46 commando, 'TXw's crash. They have bought the only airworthy swing tail dc6.

It looks like they have been restoring 4-ex Zantop Lockheed electras to airworthy status, bringing their final future tally to 9, in addition to the p-3 tanker they bought from aero union.

http://keystoneairport.com/wp-content/u ... pliner.pdf
http://starkejournal.com/firebomber-arrives-at-airport/
http://nycaviation.com/forum/threads/48 ... to-the-sky


More and More of the Zantop fleet (plus one dc4 AND the p-3) is appearing at a small airport known as keystone heights airpark: [photoid][/photoid]

Will any more dc3 be aquired?

Will TXW fly again?

Whats happening with C-GTPO?

When will all ex-zantop electras fly again?

When will the dc-4 be retired?
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Spacepope
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Re: What's going on at Buffalo Airways?

Fri Nov 11, 2016 4:29 am

They also just bought a former Atlantic Airlines Electra, not sure if for parts or if they will fly it back across the pond.
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opticalilyushin
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Re: What's going on at Buffalo Airways?

Fri Nov 11, 2016 10:55 am

My understanding is that the Electra was brought in to offer a more 'modern' replacement for the Douglas and Curtiss aircraft. I know on their website a while ago they were looking to acquire a Basler BT67, I wonder if it would be to replace the passenger DC-3?
 
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Re: What's going on at Buffalo Airways?

Fri Nov 11, 2016 9:54 pm

Interesting: What will replace the c-46?
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Revelation
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Re: What's going on at Buffalo Airways?

Fri Nov 11, 2016 10:14 pm

opticalilyushin wrote:
My understanding is that the Electra was brought in to offer a more 'modern' replacement for the Douglas and Curtiss aircraft. I know on their website a while ago they were looking to acquire a Basler BT67, I wonder if it would be to replace the passenger DC-3?


The problem is that the L-1011 has a lot higher trip costs than the piston planes. Some of that can be made up for by the larger capacity, but some of it means they just can't afford to fly to some places that they now fly to, and/or they can't keep the same frequency.

The problem with the piston planes is that it's getting difficult to obtain high octane aviation gasoline. The few refineries that still make it are old and it won't be economically feasible to replace them.

It seems like the Basler BT67 is a great idea but it is a pretty expensive conversion and Buffalo Airways ain't exactly rich.
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Re: What's going on at Buffalo Airways?

Fri Nov 11, 2016 10:36 pm

Revelation wrote:
opticalilyushin wrote:
My understanding is that the Electra was brought in to offer a more 'modern' replacement for the Douglas and Curtiss aircraft. I know on their website a while ago they were looking to acquire a Basler BT67, I wonder if it would be to replace the passenger DC-3?


The problem is that the L-1011 has a lot higher trip costs than the piston planes. Some of that can be made up for by the larger capacity, but some of it means they just can't afford to fly to some places that they now fly to, and/or they can't keep the same frequency.

The problem with the piston planes is that it's getting difficult to obtain high octane aviation gasoline. The few refineries that still make it are old and it won't be economically feasible to replace them.

It seems like the Basler BT67 is a great idea but it is a pretty expensive conversion and Buffalo Airways ain't exactly rich.


L-1011? I wish!
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Re: What's going on at Buffalo Airways?

Fri Nov 11, 2016 10:57 pm

Spacepope wrote:
Revelation wrote:
opticalilyushin wrote:
My understanding is that the Electra was brought in to offer a more 'modern' replacement for the Douglas and Curtiss aircraft. I know on their website a while ago they were looking to acquire a Basler BT67, I wonder if it would be to replace the passenger DC-3?


The problem is that the L-1011 has a lot higher trip costs than the piston planes. Some of that can be made up for by the larger capacity, but some of it means they just can't afford to fly to some places that they now fly to, and/or they can't keep the same frequency.

The problem with the piston planes is that it's getting difficult to obtain high octane aviation gasoline. The few refineries that still make it are old and it won't be economically feasible to replace them.

It seems like the Basler BT67 is a great idea but it is a pretty expensive conversion and Buffalo Airways ain't exactly rich.


L-1011? I wish!


Oops!

Image Image Image

I too was letting my love of the L-1011 take over!

Let's try L-188 Electra?
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canyonblue17
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Re: What's going on at Buffalo Airways?

Fri Nov 11, 2016 11:43 pm

Why do they mess around with ancient aircraft? I understand many are still airworthy, but the upkeep must get tougher and more expensive over time. Aren't there more appropriate aircraft out there than can handle the loads and the weather and be more efficient?
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YVRLTN
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Re: What's going on at Buffalo Airways?

Sat Nov 12, 2016 2:45 am

Spacepope wrote:
They also just bought a former Atlantic Airlines Electra, not sure if for parts or if they will fly it back across the pond.


I believe it is one Conair have had at YXX for a few years now - externally it looks "OK" and I have seen worse fly, but will need a bit of work just to fly it out of there.

canyonblue17 wrote:
Why do they mess around with ancient aircraft? I understand many are still airworthy, but the upkeep must get tougher and more expensive over time. Aren't there more appropriate aircraft out there than can handle the loads and the weather and be more efficient?


Going to their hangar in YZF, I get the impression it really is a working museum and it is Joe's passion and therefore legacy to keep it so. Not only does he have old aircraft, but also cars, equipment, memorabilia and so on. Those old birds are super tough and take a real beating, but the ATR has proved itself in northern Canada on gravel and 60 below and a 42 would be a fine DC3 replacement and the 72 a C46 replacement. Some are 30 years old, give it 20 years and some may be cheap and old enough!! But I think its against Joe's religion to do such a thing... The Saab 340 is closer in capabilities to the DC3 and there are plenty around, but being Joe I could see him picking up some Convair props as a jack of all trades to slot between DC3, C46 & L188. Maybe the HS748 too, which is fine as a a -3/-46 replacement (its own increasing parts scarcity not withstanding), but is less capable than the CV580 and cant begin to touch the higher end which they may need to do if the downsize from the L188. I do think the DC3 can be around "forever" as there are so many parts still, if it can be comes down to Transport Canada and availability of 100LL.

opticalilyushin wrote:
My understanding is that the Electra was brought in to offer a more 'modern' replacement for the Douglas and Curtiss aircraft.

They were to replace the DC4 as both fire bomber and freighter. But the Electra proved far too big (in terms of runway performance and flexibility at the strips they want to get into) and thirsty for the work the -4 did. Im not sure what a good replacement would be, the aforementioned Convair is significantly smaller if they really need that payload capacity (which is the pertinent question) and the ATR72 certainly is not even worth mentioning. The BAe 146 300QT would be perfect, maybe even the DC9 (which may not have the runway performance though is used in Alaska in similar circumstances) but I cant see Joe making that kind of leap to jets and Im sure fuel burn is probably even worse, neither are efficient.

I come back to the Convair, while smaller, it has very good payload for its size and volume and if the Electra is too physically big, it may be OK. These days with the downturn they barely use it or the DC4 AFAIK and the competitions big lifters in NWT are all gone now too, so maybe it is not vital to replace that size. Maybe they can pick up the pair of 5800's...

Worth mentioning it seems the CL215 flying is done too. NWT has signed up for their own Air Tractor's for fire fighting.
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Spacepope
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Re: What's going on at Buffalo Airways?

Sat Nov 12, 2016 4:11 am

YVRLTN wrote:
Spacepope wrote:
They also just bought a former Atlantic Airlines Electra, not sure if for parts or if they will fly it back across the pond.


I believe it is one Conair have had at YXX for a few years now - externally it looks "OK" and I have seen worse fly, but will need a bit of work just to fly it out of there.


The Electra Buffalo just bought has been stored at Abbotsfor, so you are correct. See entry update here on the RTS blog. http://regionalturbopropspotter.blogspo ... rop_5.html
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jfkflyer
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Re: What's going on at Buffalo Airways?

Sat Nov 12, 2016 8:38 pm

How many L188 will there be in totoal ? which dc4 are currently flying? just FIQM?
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Re: What's going on at Buffalo Airways?

Sat Nov 12, 2016 9:56 pm

Anyone else here that would be saddened if Buffalo Airways went modern? I love what they do, and they do it right. I am surprised this airline doesn't get as much attention here as it should.
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jfkflyer
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Re: What's going on at Buffalo Airways?

Sun Nov 13, 2016 3:05 am

Have any planes been retired?
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richardcooper
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Re: What's going on at Buffalo Airways?

Sun Nov 13, 2016 10:41 am

There was this tweet from April, don't know any more details though.

Image
 
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Re: What's going on at Buffalo Airways?

Mon Nov 14, 2016 3:05 am

canyonblue17 wrote:
Why do they mess around with ancient aircraft? I understand many are still airworthy, but the upkeep must get tougher and more expensive over time. Aren't there more appropriate aircraft out there than can handle the loads and the weather and be more efficient?



the owner, joe McBryan was raised old-school and believes that piston pounders are reliable, true workhorses, and although they take 13 man hurs for ever flight hour, they aren't expensive to operate as rugged aircraft.

Does anyone know if Buffalo will buy BT67?
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jfkflyer
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Re: What's going on at Buffalo Airways?

Sun Jan 22, 2017 9:17 pm

richardcooper wrote:
There was this tweet from April, don't know any more details though.

Image



I have a feeling bastler bout this aircraft from buffalo. Do you know the latest on their fleet of dc4?
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VolvoBus
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Re: What's going on at Buffalo Airways?

Mon Jan 23, 2017 1:49 pm

jfkflyer wrote:
canyonblue17 wrote:
Why do they mess around with ancient aircraft? I understand many are still airworthy, but the upkeep must get tougher and more expensive over time. Aren't there more appropriate aircraft out there than can handle the loads and the weather and be more efficient?



the owner, joe McBryan was raised old-school and believes that piston pounders are reliable, true workhorses, and although they take 13 man hurs for ever flight hour, they aren't expensive to operate as rugged aircraft.

Does anyone know if Buffalo will buy BT67?


I don't know too much about Buffalo's destinations,but might difficulty of loading be a factor in introducing certain types?
 
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Re: What's going on at Buffalo Airways?

Mon Jan 23, 2017 3:35 pm

YVRLTN wrote:
...Maybe the HS748 too, which is fine as a a -3/-46 replacement (its own increasing parts scarcity not withstanding), but is less capable than the CV580 and cant begin to touch the higher end which they may need to do if the downsize from the L188. I do think the DC3 can be around "forever" as there are so many parts still, if it can be comes down to Transport Canada and availability of 100LL......


I believe IFL group will be shedding their CV580's and perhaps their CV5800's too replacing them with the CRJ SF, so there may be some on the market.
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jfkflyer
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Re: What's going on at Buffalo Airways?

Fri Feb 03, 2017 11:01 pm

tjwgrr wrote:
YVRLTN wrote:
...Maybe the HS748 too, which is fine as a a -3/-46 replacement (its own increasing parts scarcity not withstanding), but is less capable than the CV580 and cant begin to touch the higher end which they may need to do if the downsize from the L188. I do think the DC3 can be around "forever" as there are so many parts still, if it can be comes down to Transport Canada and availability of 100LL......


I believe IFL group will be shedding their CV580's and perhaps their CV5800's too replacing them with the CRJ SF, so there may be some on the market.


Where else could one find a flyable dc6, l188 or c46? That isn't in use with everts, and airworthy?
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jfkflyer
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Re: What's going on at Buffalo Airways?

Fri Feb 03, 2017 11:02 pm

Spacepope wrote:
They also just bought a former Atlantic Airlines Electra, not sure if for parts or if they will fly it back across the pond.



what reg?
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threepoint
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Re: What's going on at Buffalo Airways?

Fri Feb 03, 2017 11:20 pm

YVRLTN wrote:
I believe it is one Conair have had at YXX for a few years now

The ex-Atlantic L-188 that sat at CYXX for several years was not owned by Conair.

YVRLTN wrote:
Worth mentioning it seems the CL215 flying is done too. NWT has signed up for their own Air Tractor's for fire fighting.


Buffalo secured the 10-year contract to crew and operate the NWT Govt-owned Fireboss aircraft.
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jfkflyer
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Re: What's going on at Buffalo Airways?

Mon Feb 06, 2017 3:01 am

threepoint wrote:
YVRLTN wrote:
I believe it is one Conair have had at YXX for a few years now

The ex-Atlantic L-188 that sat at CYXX for several years was not owned by Conair.

YVRLTN wrote:
Worth mentioning it seems the CL215 flying is done too. NWT has signed up for their own Air Tractor's for fire fighting.


Buffalo secured the 10-year contract to crew and operate the NWT Govt-owned Fireboss aircraft.



can p-3 blades be used on the electra? Because finding serviceable blades is such a challenge
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