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Channex757
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Monarch starts 737 changeover

Mon Apr 10, 2017 11:17 pm

The first 737 is due to arrive at Monarch.

G-ZBAV is a medium term lease, former TC-AAY of Pegasus. A 737-800NG, it is being dry leased and operated out of Birmingham. Very useful for starting the conversion process as the 737-8 starts arriving early next year.

The aircraft has a British registration reserved and looks to be getting the Monarch yellow tail livery.

Details from Jethros fleet page at http://jethros.org.uk/fleets/fleet_list ... rlines.htm
 
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ikolkyo
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Re: Monarch starts 737 changeover

Tue Apr 11, 2017 5:22 am

I didn't know they were getting a single 738, thought it it was only the 7M8. Seems a little odd for just one of them.
 
oldannyboy
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Re: Monarch starts 737 changeover

Tue Apr 11, 2017 10:21 am

Not sure getting 737s after years of A320/21s is a forward move in terms of pax experience.... still...
 
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Polot
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Re: Monarch starts 737 changeover

Tue Apr 11, 2017 11:24 am

oldannyboy wrote:
Not sure getting 737s after years of A320/21s is a forward move in terms of pax experience.... still...

Looking at the seat pitch in their fleet I don't think pax experience is something Monarch is all too concerned about.
 
azz767
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Re: Monarch starts 737 changeover

Tue Apr 11, 2017 11:27 am

Polot wrote:
oldannyboy wrote:
Not sure getting 737s after years of A320/21s is a forward move in terms of pax experience.... still...

Looking at the seat pitch in their fleet I don't think pax experience is something Monarch is all too concerned about.


You're not wrong, I was on one of their older 320's back in October and it was one of the worst seats and pitches I've ever experienced, just luckily managed to blag an exit row whilst on board
 
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seahawk
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Re: Monarch starts 737 changeover

Tue Apr 11, 2017 11:31 am

Great news. The 737 should help to improve their net results. Did they order the Max8-200?
 
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Channex757
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Re: Monarch starts 737 changeover

Tue Apr 11, 2017 11:33 am

As it's a dry lease it means ZB will supply pilots. It will be useful in that crews can be trained on the 738 (cabin crews too) then put through the differences course quickly for the Max-8.

Monarch Engineering can also grope their way round the 738's systems that are common with the MAX-8. That's presumably why it is being based at BHX.
 
Jerry123
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Re: Monarch starts 737 changeover

Tue Apr 11, 2017 11:34 am

seahawk wrote:
Great news. The 737 should help to improve their net results. Did they order the Max8-200?

Just the Max 8.
 
steady eddie
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Re: Monarch starts 737 changeover

Tue Apr 11, 2017 12:08 pm

The 737 MAX for Monarch is an absurd vanity project carried over from the previous regime, they have no need to change for changes sake from a relatively Modern Airbus fleet, and one aircraft size does not fit all with the Monarch Model. Valuable Gatwick slots just one example where smaller capacity will hurt them, training costs are huge, and for what? Still no differentiation in the market.
 
VSMUT
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Re: Monarch starts 737 changeover

Tue Apr 11, 2017 12:23 pm

steady eddie wrote:
The 737 MAX for Monarch is an absurd vanity project carried over from the previous regime, they have no need to change for changes sake from a relatively Modern Airbus fleet, and one aircraft size does not fit all with the Monarch Model. Valuable Gatwick slots just one example where smaller capacity will hurt them, training costs are huge, and for what? Still no differentiation in the market.


But pretty useful for securing a nice Boeing financed loan to prevent the business from going bankrupt ;)
 
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MrHMSH
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Re: Monarch starts 737 changeover

Tue Apr 11, 2017 12:29 pm

Out of interest, the order for now appears to just be the MAX8, but the MAX9 has been rumoured to come as well. How far can it fly from LGW at full payload? Runways in the UK aren't that long on the whole.
 
oldannyboy
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Re: Monarch starts 737 changeover

Tue Apr 11, 2017 12:41 pm

seahawk wrote:
Great news. The 737 should help to improve their net results. Did they order the Max8-200?


Sorry, but I fail to see how switching from an A320 fleet to 737s can turn around the company... no A or B fan here, just sayin'....
 
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seahawk
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Re: Monarch starts 737 changeover

Tue Apr 11, 2017 12:43 pm

oldannyboy wrote:
seahawk wrote:
Great news. The 737 should help to improve their net results. Did they order the Max8-200?


Sorry, but I fail to see how switching from an A320 fleet to 737s can turn around the company... no A or B fan here, just sayin'....


They are switching from rather old and tired A320s to 737-Max.
 
Jerry123
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Re: Monarch starts 737 changeover

Tue Apr 11, 2017 1:29 pm

steady eddie wrote:
The 737 MAX for Monarch is an absurd vanity project carried over from the previous regime, they have no need to change for changes sake from a relatively Modern Airbus fleet, and one aircraft size does not fit all with the Monarch Model. Valuable Gatwick slots just one example where smaller capacity will hurt them, training costs are huge, and for what? Still no differentiation in the market.

Wasn't the original plan though for them to transition into a LCC. Now they seem to be becoming more of a hybrid airline. The smaller aircraft would be more suitable for small regional airport's leaving the A321s for MAN BHX and LGW.
 
kdhurst380
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Re: Monarch starts 737 changeover

Tue Apr 11, 2017 1:42 pm

MrHMSH wrote:
Out of interest, the order for now appears to just be the MAX8, but the MAX9 has been rumoured to come as well. How far can it fly from LGW at full payload? Runways in the UK aren't that long on the whole.

Nor are they particularly short bar a few regional airports. The likes of LGW, MAN, STN, BHX etc have quite adequate runway lengths. LGW is just under 11,000ft.

I can the problems being more at the destinations they serve, such as ACE in the Canary Islands, hot during the summer months and the runway is about 7,500ft with high terrain at the end of the preferential runway.

seahawk wrote:
oldannyboy wrote:
seahawk wrote:
Great news. The 737 should help to improve their net results. Did they order the Max8-200?


Sorry, but I fail to see how switching from an A320 fleet to 737s can turn around the company... no A or B fan here, just sayin'....


They are switching from rather old and tired A320s to 737-Max.


Granted some of them are getting on a bit but they do have some newer frames. But to think that switching the fleet is going to have any significant impact on the companies fortunes is rather naive, without wishing to go too much off topic, Monarch's business model is what has let it down. The trend for UK airlines successfully filling seats on aircraft comes from selling package holidays. Ask Jet2 for example. A massive marketing push on Jet2Holidays and they're doing very well at the moment.

Monarch's TV adverts focus heavily on their customer service, which is nice, but their hard product is no different to any other low cost airline and it certainly wouldn't be enough to sway me if the price wasn't right. Moral of the story here, is Monarch need a solid business model to succeed, shiny new planes that burn less fuel will reduce their costs but it won't make money start growing on trees.
 
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MrHMSH
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Re: Monarch starts 737 changeover

Tue Apr 11, 2017 2:07 pm

kdhurst380 wrote:

I can the problems being more at the destinations they serve, such as ACE in the Canary Islands, hot during the summer months and the runway is about 7,500ft with high terrain at the end of the preferential runway.



What is the runway requirement for the -900ER? I thought it was more than 3000m, but admittedly I haven't seen it anywhere. Or am I really overstating it?
 
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winterlight
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Re: Monarch starts 737 changeover

Tue Apr 11, 2017 8:13 pm

seahawk wrote:
oldannyboy wrote:
seahawk wrote:
Great news. The 737 should help to improve their net results. Did they order the Max8-200?


Sorry, but I fail to see how switching from an A320 fleet to 737s can turn around the company... no A or B fan here, just sayin'....


They are switching from rather old and tired A320s to 737-Max.


They did have some brand new A320s with sharklets but for some reason shed them in no time.
Question everything. Trust no-one.
 
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Polot
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Re: Monarch starts 737 changeover

Tue Apr 11, 2017 8:15 pm

winterlight wrote:
They did have some brand new A320s with sharklets but for some reason shed them in no time.

Probably could not afford the lease payments.
 
FriscoHeavy
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Re: Monarch starts 737 changeover

Tue Apr 11, 2017 11:24 pm

Polot wrote:
winterlight wrote:
They did have some brand new A320s with sharklets but for some reason shed them in no time.

Probably could not afford the lease payments.



..But yet they can afford the payments on a brand new 737-MAX...c'mon brutha.
Whatever
 
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Polot
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Re: Monarch starts 737 changeover

Tue Apr 11, 2017 11:34 pm

FriscoHeavy wrote:
Polot wrote:
winterlight wrote:
They did have some brand new A320s with sharklets but for some reason shed them in no time.

Probably could not afford the lease payments.



..But yet they can afford the payments on a brand new 737-MAX...c'mon brutha.

1) Monarch was dumping those planes 2 years ago. Their fortunes might have improved since then.

2) This is the airline where there was a mini-panic that it was on the verge of shutting down last fall. We don't know what deal Monarch got from Boeing, and if you look you will notice there are currently no 7M8s in Monarch's fleet yet. A bit early to say they can afford the payments on a brand new 737-MAX. They think they can afford the payments on brand new 737-MAXs, or at least will be able to by the time they get them.
 
kdhurst380
Posts: 347
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Re: Monarch starts 737 changeover

Wed Apr 12, 2017 12:04 am

Polot wrote:
FriscoHeavy wrote:
Polot wrote:
Probably could not afford the lease payments.



..But yet they can afford the payments on a brand new 737-MAX...c'mon brutha.

1) Monarch was dumping those planes 2 years ago. Their fortunes might have improved since then.

2) This is the airline where there was a mini-panic that it was on the verge of shutting down last fall. We don't know what deal Monarch got from Boeing, and if you look you will notice there are currently no 7M8s in Monarch's fleet yet. A bit early to say they can afford the payments on a brand new 737-MAX. They think they can afford the payments on brand new 737-MAXs, or at least will be able to by the time they get them.

At the time the new Airbus deal was widely criticised as a vanity project, lovely new aircraft complete with expensive leases at a time when they weren't making any money. Somehow somebody decided that leasing in a load of new aircraft would magically make money appear.

I believe the Boeing order is/has been financed directly by Greybull.

Monarch have a history of squandering what money they did have and questionable business decisions, I remember when they had three different variations of their current livery before finally deciding what they would go with. It's focusing on, in the grand scheme of things,unimportant 'issues' such as this that have put them on the brink of collapse more times than any business should. No wonder the Mantegazza's got sick and tired of pumping good money into a badly managed business.

I honestly wish them the best and hope they sort themselves out. They aren't out of the woods yet and switching fleets as I've said is not the answer to their problems.
 
steady eddie
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Re: Monarch starts 737 changeover

Wed Apr 12, 2017 9:19 am

Fully agree. I still have a lot of friends there, but the place has been dreadfully managed for well over a decade by a succession of hugely paid Management imbeciles, while the staff have seen their pensions destroyed.
Fingers crossed they get it right sometime soon
 
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Channex757
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Re: Monarch starts 737 changeover

Wed Apr 12, 2017 10:40 am

Monarch did have its own holiday division, but again it's a case of poor decisions as it could easily have been another Jet2holidays type success story. ZB was always associated with holiday brands and the Cosmos brand was a sister company. Coming out of the charter business as the trade evolved was horribly mismanaged, and some of the leases on the fleet were allegedly on crippling terms.

Some of their decisions are just weird. For instance, why did MAEL close Manchester's engineering base when it was always busy? Why wasn't Monarch Holidays properly developed when it has the potential to have been another Jet2 type success? Why the two kinds of engines on the existing fleet (CFM on the A320 and IAE on the A321) when it must increase their costs?
 
BHXRunway15
Posts: 32
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Re: Monarch starts 737 changeover

Wed Apr 12, 2017 7:11 pm

The 738 BHX routes are as follows per certain websites although on Monarch it still shows 174 seat-map which is the A320 config: -

Monday: Faro am & Dalaman pm
Tuesday: Tenerife am & Palma pm
Wednesday: Mahon am & Dalaman pm
Thursday: Rome am & Alicante pm
Friday: Lisbon am & Madrid pm
Saturday: Tenerife am & Malaga pm
Sunday: Faro am & Lisbon pm

Monarch Holidays are well and truly up and running as I have booked with them which includes hotel and transfers. Interestingly my Credit Card statement at the time was showing Cosmos Holidays Limited but Companies House show a 17 March 2017 name change to Monarch Holidays Limited. I was also e-mailed the ATOL certificate details, no doubt trying to reassure customers.

It seems BHX will have 10 based aircraft which includes an operational spare in the mornings to cover delays but all ten are scheduled to operate from the last week in June.
 
Pe@rson
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Re: Monarch starts 737 changeover

Wed Apr 12, 2017 10:06 pm

The 737 Max 8 will enable far lower fuel consumption and maintenance costs, although offset by higher aircraft ownership costs. Its unit cost and seat costs should reduce nicely.
"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
 
lee757
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Re: Monarch starts 737 changeover

Wed Apr 12, 2017 10:25 pm

Channex757 wrote:
Monarch did have its own holiday division, but again it's a case of poor decisions as it could easily have been another Jet2holidays type success story. ZB was always associated with holiday brands and the Cosmos brand was a sister company. Coming out of the charter business as the trade evolved was horribly mismanaged, and some of the leases on the fleet were allegedly on crippling terms.

Some of their decisions are just weird. For instance, why did MAEL close Manchester's engineering base when it was always busy? Why wasn't Monarch Holidays properly developed when it has the potential to have been another Jet2 type success? Why the two kinds of engines on the existing fleet (CFM on the A320 and IAE on the A321) when it must increase their costs?


LS success is as much about TCX being asleep at the wheel hence the renewed focus on airtours to combat J2H. That market doesn't pay which is why cooks are moving to exclusive differentiated product following TUI, who have the commodity side with skytours though its a very small part of their business. Will be interesting to see how LS does with 30 plus planes that need paying for and therefore flying throughout winter - something it's not had to do in the same way as cooks or TUI before (given it could and did just park them), but it's model is changing. There's a reason we went from the big four to the bigger two.

ZB have made some odd choices although did they need engineering at MAN & BHX if one would do? Agree not sure switch from A to B does much but at least they keep LS honest at LBA. The notion they'd compete with Loco's is also a bit odd. They should have been packaged focused which is higher margin then just FO.
 
CRJ900
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Re: Monarch starts 737 changeover

Wed Apr 12, 2017 10:28 pm

Wouldn't 188-seat A320NEOs offer the same savings as the 189-seat B737 MAX 8?
Come, fly the prevailing winds with me
 
TheGeordielad
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Re: Monarch starts 737 changeover

Tue Apr 25, 2017 5:53 am

 
aviatorcraig
Posts: 520
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Re: Monarch starts 737 changeover

Thu Apr 27, 2017 6:08 am

-

Monarch have of course operated the 737 before, both the 737-200 and 737-300 in the eighties and early nineties.

There can't be too many airlines that have operated the same generic airliner type twice... with a 24 year gap!

707 727 Caravelle Comet Concorde Dash-7 DC-9 DC-10 One-Eleven Trident Tristar Tu-134 VC-10 Viscount plus boring stuff!
 
BestWestern
Posts: 8053
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Re: Monarch starts 737 changeover

Thu Apr 27, 2017 7:08 am

Dragon air could be another one to switch back. Silkair have already made the switch.
Greetings from Hong Kong.... a subsidiary of China Inc.
 
BestWestern
Posts: 8053
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Re: Monarch starts 737 changeover

Thu Apr 27, 2017 7:09 am

And in someways, Ryanair operated the A320 for a very short while.
Greetings from Hong Kong.... a subsidiary of China Inc.

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