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VirginFlyer
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Re: Active DC-8/L-1011 Thread

Mon Jun 12, 2017 12:09 pm


According to the photo caption, this VIP DC-8-72 (N872SJ, 46067/445) has been retired and may serve as a parts source.

As a sunny day is about to end, the beautiful classic jetliner is walking on the ramp of the desert airport for an uncertain future, which is likely to be a spare part donor. This DC-8-72 was originally built in 1969 as N8966U for United. She had also flown as a VIP aircraft in Europe. The noise of the DC-8 echoed over the desert telling her history.


V/F
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Re: Active DC-8/L-1011 Thread

Mon Jun 12, 2017 1:35 pm

VirginFlyer wrote:

According to the photo caption, this VIP DC-8-72 (N872SJ, 46067/445) has been retired and may serve as a parts source.

As a sunny day is about to end, the beautiful classic jetliner is walking on the ramp of the desert airport for an uncertain future, which is likely to be a spare part donor. This DC-8-72 was originally built in 1969 as N8966U for United. She had also flown as a VIP aircraft in Europe. The noise of the DC-8 echoed over the desert telling her history.


V/F


But isn't that the one that just ferried IGM-VCV in the past 2 weeks?
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Douglas DC-8 Fleet Tracking/Retirements Thread

Fri Jun 16, 2017 6:01 am

Following on from the Boeing 747-400 Passenger Fleet Tracking/Retirements Thread, here's another survey, this time of a somewhat smaller in-service fleet - the Douglas DC-8. Data comes from https://www.planespotters.net/operators/Douglas/DC-8. This list shows aircraft recorded as being currently active - 8 of them with 7 operators:

CFS Air Cargo
1 aircraft


TT-DFJ 45991/380 Douglas DC-8-73CF


Congolese Air Force
1 aircraft


9T-TCN 45753/223 Douglas DC-8-55(F)


NASA
1 aircraft


N817NA 46082/458 Douglas DC-8-72


Peruvian Airlines
1 aircraft


OB-2059-P 45990/375 Douglas DC-8-73CF


Republic of Togo Government
1 aircraft


5V-TGF 46071/469 Douglas DC-8-62H


Samaritan's Purse
1 aircraft


N782SP 46013/427 Douglas DC-8-72CF


Trans Air Cargo Service
2 aircraft


9Q-CJG 46110/487 Douglas DC-8-62H(F)
9Q-CJL 45909/307 Douglas DC-8-62H(F)


Airlinerlist.com's list has a few extra listed, but it seems likely that they are no longer in service:

Brascoota - PP-BEL 46047/446 Douglas DC-8-73CF
Fits Air - 4R-EXJ 46049/479 Douglas DC-8-63CF
Trans Air Cargo Service - 9Q-CJO 46133/534 Douglas DC-8-73CF

V/F
It is not for him to pride himself who loveth his own country, but rather for him who loveth the whole world. The earth is but one country, and mankind its citizens. —Bahá'u'lláh
 
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747classic
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Re: Douglas DC-8 Fleet Tracking/Retirements Thread

Fri Jun 16, 2017 8:43 am

Official via Boeing.

Present DC8 Type certificate holder is Boeing : http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guida ... v%2041.pdf
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Re: Douglas DC-8 Fleet Tracking/Retirements Thread

Fri Jun 16, 2017 10:01 am

Hi VirginFlyer, thank you for starting this thread too! So, 4 of these (CFS, NASA, Peruvian and Samaritan's Purse) have been re-engined with CFM's, and the others still have the original engines?

Long time since I've seen a DC8. they have been banned from many airports due to noise regulations. The DC8 is actually the first aircraft I can recall seeing when my dad took me to AMS for a spotting trip, long, long time ago. We stood in front of the Kaagbaan, aircraft passing right over our heads. The sound of those 4 engines was extremely loud to my young ears.
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Re: Douglas DC-8 Fleet Tracking/Retirements Thread

Fri Jun 16, 2017 1:59 pm

Many thanks for this thread! I must admit that I thought the venerable -8 had already completely disappeared from the skies. Must be at least 15 years since I last saw one. Good to see some of them are still flying, and that roughly 50% even still have their original P&W JT3D fuel-to-noise converters!
 
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Re: Douglas DC-8 Fleet Tracking/Retirements Thread

Fri Jun 16, 2017 2:21 pm

Thanks for compiling this list of the might '8'. What's very interesting is that 5/8 in service are the baby stretch Super 62/72 series. Remarkable considering how many fewer 62s were built vs. 71s & 73s. I wonder whether the range of the 62/72 is a factor?

Also amazing that there's still 1 non-Super DC-8 still active. I thought the last non-Super had been withdrawn years ago, long before UPS and ATI's retirements.

Wasn't there talk of another eight getting ready to be brought back into service?
 
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Re: Douglas DC-8 Fleet Tracking/Retirements Thread

Fri Jun 16, 2017 2:37 pm

frigatebird wrote:
Hi VirginFlyer, thank you for starting this thread too! So, 4 of these (CFS, NASA, Peruvian and Samaritan's Purse) have been re-engined with CFM's, and the others still have the original engines?

Long time since I've seen a DC8. they have been banned from many airports due to noise regulations. The DC8 is actually the first aircraft I can recall seeing when my dad took me to AMS for a spotting trip, long, long time ago. We stood in front of the Kaagbaan, aircraft passing right over our heads. The sound of those 4 engines was extremely loud to my young ears.


Great thread, thanks.

Are the -73s and -72s banned too from some airports too? I thought those were stage 3.

I didn't see any -71s active.
 
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Re: Douglas DC-8 Fleet Tracking/Retirements Thread

Fri Jun 16, 2017 2:55 pm

BoeingGuy wrote:
frigatebird wrote:
Hi VirginFlyer, thank you for starting this thread too! So, 4 of these (CFS, NASA, Peruvian and Samaritan's Purse) have been re-engined with CFM's, and the others still have the original engines?

Long time since I've seen a DC8. they have been banned from many airports due to noise regulations. The DC8 is actually the first aircraft I can recall seeing when my dad took me to AMS for a spotting trip, long, long time ago. We stood in front of the Kaagbaan, aircraft passing right over our heads. The sound of those 4 engines was extremely loud to my young ears.


Great thread, thanks.

Are the -73s and -72s banned too from some airports too? I thought those were stage 3.

I didn't see any -71s active.


All Super 70 series are stage 3 compliant. I lot of JT3Ds were hush kitted to be stage 3 compliant. My only concern with the government DC-8s is there are no recent photos of them in the database. I know they're based out of places with few spotters.
 
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Re: Douglas DC-8 Fleet Tracking/Retirements Thread

Fri Jun 16, 2017 3:45 pm

The series 70 have engines the same or close to 737-300. The older ones with the Pratts are another issue and little wonder they are becoming museum pieces. NASA's 72 looked superb in FLL a few weeks ago.
 
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keesje
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Re: Douglas DC-8 Fleet Tracking/Retirements Thread

Fri Jun 16, 2017 3:54 pm

Is there a flight tracker where you can find those DC8 when flying?
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nikeherc
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Re: Douglas DC-8 Fleet Tracking/Retirements Thread

Fri Jun 16, 2017 3:55 pm

The DC-8 figures in one of my strongest memories. It was just before Christmas of 1966 and the Viet Nam war was at its peak. I was 20 years old and a senior in college. It was a warm night for December and I was standing in the yard of my family home as what seemed like every DC-8 in the Eastern fleet passed low overhead. The occasion was the holiday break in basic training at Fort Jackson near Columbia, SC. The Army gave all of the trainees the Holidays as a break and chartered flights to send the young men home. CAE never saw that kind of activity. You can imagine the thoughts running through my head. Soon I would be out of school and facing the possibility of being on one of those planes on the way to war. The DC-8s were taking off at one or two minute intervals for what seemed like an hour, although it couldn't have been that long. Our house was about 6.5 miles from the end of the main runway at CAE and these planes were probably quite full. The DC-8 has always held a special place in my thoughts as far as airplanes go and I found it to be very comfortable on long flights, or course I was young and skinny then. It will be a sad day when the last "8" heads for the boneyard.
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Re: Douglas DC-8 Fleet Tracking/Retirements Thread

Fri Jun 16, 2017 4:31 pm

How many 707's are flying around compared to the DC-8? Why would a DC-8 make it longer than the 707's?
 
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Re: Douglas DC-8 Fleet Tracking/Retirements Thread

Fri Jun 16, 2017 4:44 pm

TurboJet707 wrote:
Many thanks for this thread! I must admit that I thought the venerable -8 had already completely disappeared from the skies. Must be at least 15 years since I last saw one. Good to see some of them are still flying, and that roughly 50% even still have their original P&W JT3D fuel-to-noise converters!


I wonder how they find parts for those JT3D's?
.
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bennett123
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Re: Douglas DC-8 Fleet Tracking/Retirements Thread

Fri Jun 16, 2017 4:52 pm

I have seen 4R-EXJ in the past, but will need to check the date.

Think it was 2013.
 
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Re: Douglas DC-8 Fleet Tracking/Retirements Thread

Fri Jun 16, 2017 5:13 pm

WN732 wrote:
How many 707's are flying around compared to the DC-8? Why would a DC-8 make it longer than the 707's?


DC-8's were built like tanks, so they last longer. They had longer landing gear that allowed them to be stretched more than 707's. The longer versions of the 60 series, the 61 and 63 models were the most likely to get reengined with CFM-56's. The DC-8 71 and 73 models were excellent for freight conversions due to their extra capacity and greater thrust from the CFM-56 engines.
 
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Re: Douglas DC-8 Fleet Tracking/Retirements Thread

Fri Jun 16, 2017 5:22 pm

The original DC-8 was volume limited, not weight limited. It could carry more than it could hold. Douglas aircraft were build with thicker aluminum among other things that made them more durable. The stretched 8s were viable as new builds after the 707 family had maxed out. To stretch a 707 further would have required taller gear, and essentially, a new wing. Had Douglas been more flexible about fuselage dimensions, i.e. been willing to stretch it sooner, the DC-8 might have outsold the 707. However, Douglas was stretched financially by the DC-8 program and had to make too many concessions to buyers to be able to afford the engineering to stretch the DC-8 until the mid 60s, by which time Boeing had controlled the market.
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Planesmart
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Re: Douglas DC-8 Fleet Tracking/Retirements Thread

Fri Jun 16, 2017 7:57 pm

747classic wrote:
Official via Boeing.

Present DC8 Type certificate holder is Boeing : http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guida ... v%2041.pdf

Can't imagine Boeing is still footing the cost of product liability insurance on the model, so all will be operating on experimental, military or research exemptions, or not operating.
 
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Re: Douglas DC-8 Fleet Tracking/Retirements Thread

Fri Jun 16, 2017 8:34 pm

flyingclrs727 wrote:

DC-8's were built like tanks, so they last longer. They had longer landing gear that allowed them to be stretched more than 707's. The longer versions of the 60 series, the 61 and 63 models were the most likely to get reengined with CFM-56's. The DC-8 71 and 73 models were excellent for freight conversions due to their extra capacity and greater thrust from the CFM-56 engines.


Thanks for this. The DC8 was certainly built like a tank, but to be honest, that is not the only reason why the 707 (of which many more were sold) disappeared from the skies earlier than the DC8. The USAF snapped up many, many older 707s for parts to keep their large fleet of KC135s flying. While the KC135 was not a 707, strictly speaking, they had many parts in common. As far as I know, Douglas never managed to sell a single DC8 to any air force. This is also an important contributing factor to why the 8 lasted longer than the 707.
 
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Re: Douglas DC-8 Fleet Tracking/Retirements Thread

Fri Jun 16, 2017 8:49 pm

TurboJet707 wrote:
flyingclrs727 wrote:

DC-8's were built like tanks, so they last longer. They had longer landing gear that allowed them to be stretched more than 707's. The longer versions of the 60 series, the 61 and 63 models were the most likely to get reengined with CFM-56's. The DC-8 71 and 73 models were excellent for freight conversions due to their extra capacity and greater thrust from the CFM-56 engines.


Thanks for this. The DC8 was certainly built like a tank, but to be honest, that is not the only reason why the 707 (of which many more were sold) disappeared from the skies earlier than the DC8. The USAF snapped up many, many older 707s for parts to keep their large fleet of KC135s flying. While the KC135 was not a 707, strictly speaking, they had many parts in common. As far as I know, Douglas never managed to sell a single DC8 to any air force. This is also an important contributing factor to why the 8 lasted longer than the 707.


Airlines were willing to dump fleets of 707's, because even though a re-engine program to replace the JT3D engines with CFM-56 engines was investigated by Boeing including a small stretch, it wasn't really economically viable due to the fact that being shorter than the DC-8 60 series, the 707 could not spread the costs of a re-engining over as many seats. The smaller space also made it less attractive for conversion to freighters. Boeing dropped plans for the 707-700 program after their economists determined it would decrease demand for 757's.
 
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Re: Douglas DC-8 Fleet Tracking/Retirements Thread

Fri Jun 16, 2017 9:11 pm

As the child of a French diplomat, I regularly flew on rare DC-8 series 51 and 63, between Paris LBG and Fort Lamy (N'DJamena, Chad), during the late 60s and 70s. Mainly UTA and Air Afrique.

A UTA DC-8-51 we were on was re-routed by weather from Fort Lamy to Bangui (CAR). While manoeuvring the manual metal steps towards the rear left passenger door, someone managed to lift the door off it's hinges. We had to overnight in a hotel there, before resuming the next day to Paris–Le Bourget. I remember seeing the botched repair while visiting the toilet, hidden from view by a curtain. It seems they used long thin bits of timber and wire to 'hold the door in place'. We were at 350 over Niger at the time.

Eventually both airlines moved on to the DC-10 series 30 in our final years in Chad.

UTA772 was destroyed by a bomb on the same route in 1989.

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Re: Douglas DC-8 Fleet Tracking/Retirements Thread

Fri Jun 16, 2017 11:10 pm

I wonder what kind of shape that Congolese -55 is in?
Must be crazy expensive to maintain if still around.
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lat41
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Re: Douglas DC-8 Fleet Tracking/Retirements Thread

Sat Jun 17, 2017 8:30 am

Were any of the UPS fleet picked up by another operator after they were retired in bulk in 2009?
 
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Re: Douglas DC-8 Fleet Tracking/Retirements Thread

Sat Jun 17, 2017 3:03 pm

[quote="VirginFlyer"]Following on from the Boeing 747-400 Passenger Fleet Tracking/Retirements Thread, here's another survey, this time of a somewhat smaller in-service fleet - the Douglas DC-8. Data comes from https://www.planespotters.net/operators/Douglas/DC-8. This list shows aircraft recorded as being currently active - 8 of them with 7 operators:

Sorry to get off topic of the DC-8, but VirginFlyer, I would love to see one of these for the TU-154 and IL-96 as well, if you would be willing, love these setup's by the way, great job.
 
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VirginFlyer
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Re: Douglas DC-8 Fleet Tracking/Retirements Thread

Tue Jun 20, 2017 6:13 am

frigatebird wrote:
Hi VirginFlyer, thank you for starting this thread too! So, 4 of these (CFS, NASA, Peruvian and Samaritan's Purse) have been re-engined with CFM's, and the others still have the original engines?

You're welcome. Yes, those 4 are -70 series aircraft, converted from -60 series by Cammacorp. The conversion involved replacing the low bypass PW JT3D turbofans with the higher bypass CFM56, along with some aerodynamic modifications.

Dominion301 wrote:
Thanks for compiling this list of the might '8'. What's very interesting is that 5/8 in service are the baby stretch Super 62/72 series. Remarkable considering how many fewer 62s were built vs. 71s & 73s. I wonder whether the range of the 62/72 is a factor?

Also amazing that there's still 1 non-Super DC-8 still active. I thought the last non-Super had been withdrawn years ago, long before UPS and ATI's retirements.

Wasn't there talk of another eight getting ready to be brought back into service?

Yes, interesting that the -62/72 is the big survivor of the type, though it may be more random circumstance than anything else. I'm not sure how operational the Congolese Air Force -55 is - there is a distinct lack of photos in the database here which might be a sign it doesn't get out much. In terms of more coming into service, I wouldn't count it out - there was talk of Brascoota taking a few, although that seems not to have panned out.

keesje wrote:
Is there a flight tracker where you can find those DC8 when flying?

N817NA and N782SP are the only ones which appear on Flightradar24 and FlightAware (along with the apparently retired N872SJ noted at the beginning of this thread).

tjwgrr wrote:
TurboJet707 wrote:
Many thanks for this thread! I must admit that I thought the venerable -8 had already completely disappeared from the skies. Must be at least 15 years since I last saw one. Good to see some of them are still flying, and that roughly 50% even still have their original P&W JT3D fuel-to-noise converters!


I wonder how they find parts for those JT3D's?
.

I imagine there is still a bit of an ecosystem in existence given the number of JT3D/TF-33s in service on military 707s and KC-135s.

flyingclrs727 wrote:
WN732 wrote:
How many 707's are flying around compared to the DC-8? Why would a DC-8 make it longer than the 707's?


DC-8's were built like tanks, so they last longer. They had longer landing gear that allowed them to be stretched more than 707's. The longer versions of the 60 series, the 61 and 63 models were the most likely to get reengined with CFM-56's. The DC-8 71 and 73 models were excellent for freight conversions due to their extra capacity and greater thrust from the CFM-56 engines.


nikeherc wrote:
The original DC-8 was volume limited, not weight limited. It could carry more than it could hold. Douglas aircraft were build with thicker aluminum among other things that made them more durable. The stretched 8s were viable as new builds after the 707 family had maxed out. To stretch a 707 further would have required taller gear, and essentially, a new wing. Had Douglas been more flexible about fuselage dimensions, i.e. been willing to stretch it sooner, the DC-8 might have outsold the 707. However, Douglas was stretched financially by the DC-8 program and had to make too many concessions to buyers to be able to afford the engineering to stretch the DC-8 until the mid 60s, by which time Boeing had controlled the market.


flyingclrs727 wrote:
TurboJet707 wrote:
flyingclrs727 wrote:

DC-8's were built like tanks, so they last longer. They had longer landing gear that allowed them to be stretched more than 707's. The longer versions of the 60 series, the 61 and 63 models were the most likely to get reengined with CFM-56's. The DC-8 71 and 73 models were excellent for freight conversions due to their extra capacity and greater thrust from the CFM-56 engines.


Thanks for this. The DC8 was certainly built like a tank, but to be honest, that is not the only reason why the 707 (of which many more were sold) disappeared from the skies earlier than the DC8. The USAF snapped up many, many older 707s for parts to keep their large fleet of KC135s flying. While the KC135 was not a 707, strictly speaking, they had many parts in common. As far as I know, Douglas never managed to sell a single DC8 to any air force. This is also an important contributing factor to why the 8 lasted longer than the 707.


Airlines were willing to dump fleets of 707's, because even though a re-engine program to replace the JT3D engines with CFM-56 engines was investigated by Boeing including a small stretch, it wasn't really economically viable due to the fact that being shorter than the DC-8 60 series, the 707 could not spread the costs of a re-engining over as many seats. The smaller space also made it less attractive for conversion to freighters. Boeing dropped plans for the 707-700 program after their economists determined it would decrease demand for 757's.

Interestingly, while the 707 did depart from airline operations before the DC-8, there are still quite a number of 707s in service; all of them with military, government or related operators, but 8 of those are on civil registers. I just put up a thread like this for the 707 too: 707 Fleet Tracking & Retirements Thread

V/F
It is not for him to pride himself who loveth his own country, but rather for him who loveth the whole world. The earth is but one country, and mankind its citizens. —Bahá'u'lláh
 
UA444
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Re: Douglas DC-8 Fleet Tracking/Retirements Thread

Tue Jun 20, 2017 6:28 am

Planesmart wrote:
747classic wrote:
Official via Boeing.

Present DC8 Type certificate holder is Boeing : http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guida ... v%2041.pdf

Can't imagine Boeing is still footing the cost of product liability insurance on the model, so all will be operating on experimental, military or research exemptions, or not operating.

Boeing is required to support it.
 
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Siren
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Re: Active DC-8 Fleet Tracking/Retirements Thread

Tue Jun 20, 2017 6:44 pm

I found a photo of 9T-TCN, the Congolese Air Force bird... https://www.flickr.com/photos/l8rmt/6328122093

Appears to be the only photo, taken in 2011. Looks like it was laid up for years by 2011... I'd be surprised if it's still active. That said, it did get a full repaint out of MK Airlines colors...
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viasa
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Re: Active DC-8 Fleet Tracking/Retirements Thread

Fri Jun 23, 2017 8:04 am

I think 9Q-CJL is in JNB for years now and is not active.

And OB-2050-P is no longer with Peruvian, afaik it is with a carrier with the name SkyBus Cargo Charter, which is a sister carrier of SkyBus Jet Cargo (USA).
 
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viasa
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Re: Active DC-8 Fleet Tracking/Retirements Thread

Fri Jun 23, 2017 8:06 am

And I forgot TT-DFJ. The aircraft is on the AOC of AirInter 1 and this company operates it for CFS Air Cargo. But it is on ground since months now.
 
n729pa
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Re: Active DC-8 Fleet Tracking/Retirements Thread

Wed Jun 28, 2017 2:57 pm

I was in STO on the 13th May and much to my surprise saw a DC8 VP-BHM there. Looked in good conditime but is apparently stored. The last one I saw prior to that was in Helsinki don't have the registration to hand but that was about 18 months ago. Y
 
ILNFlyer
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Re: Douglas DC-8 Fleet Tracking/Retirements Thread

Wed Jun 28, 2017 3:21 pm

VirginFlyer wrote:
Following on from the Boeing 747-400 Passenger Fleet Tracking/Retirements Thread, here's another survey, this time of a somewhat smaller in-service fleet - the Douglas DC-8. Data comes from https://www.planespotters.net/operators/Douglas/DC-8. This list shows aircraft recorded as being currently active - 8 of them with 7 operators:

V/F


That first bird still has the old ATI colors on it, LOL.

There was one (A 73 series I think) that was in the old ATI colors but it was for a new operator. Went from a US registration to a African or South American registration I think.

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