AZa346
Topic Author
Posts: 92
Joined: Sun Jun 26, 2016 2:58 pm

Smoking in the airline industry

Mon Aug 07, 2017 3:36 pm

Cabin crew and pilots are normal humans, of course, so there will be the average amount of them who are smokers. of course they work long shifts in environments where smoking is strictly forbidden, for everyone's health and safety. but since the average smoker needs a cig every hour, do they get to get off in between short haul flights to an area far away from planes, refueling trucks and so on, where it is safe to have a smoke, or they ''simply'' wait for their shift to end, once they get out of the airport?
of course for long haul crews the story is different, as they are in the plane for >10 hours so they definitely have to wait! of course people already know the limitations they will encounter by choosing this type of career so i am not trying to make it an issue, it is just curiosity!
personal experience? heard stories? thanks for sharing!
 
jetmatt777
Posts: 3434
Joined: Sun Jun 26, 2005 2:16 am

Re: Smoking in the airline industry

Mon Aug 07, 2017 3:42 pm

most airports have designated smoking areas in various places on the airside area. Ground staff (ramp, fielders, customer service, mechanics, etc.) are usually pretty high rate for smokers, so pilots know to just ask someone on the ground and they will point them to it. They might be looking for a smoke too so they may just have the pilot follow them to the smoking area. Even when there are no designated smoking areas, there are unofficial ones in less visual places. For example rampers might push a few empty bag carts around behind a dumpster and use the bag cart as a makeshift seat and visual shield so no one can see. And those bag carts will sit there for months until someone decides they need to be moved and the rampers will make a new smoking lounge somewhere else.
Lighten up while you still can, don't even try to understand, just find a place to make your stand and take it easy
 
Renfro747
Posts: 6
Joined: Wed Jul 21, 2010 6:45 pm

Re: Smoking in the airline industry

Mon Aug 07, 2017 3:54 pm

Most smokers that I know who are on flight crews keep a stash of nicotine patches in their bags. Just in case.
 
FlyHossD
Posts: 1592
Joined: Mon Nov 02, 2009 3:45 pm

Re: Smoking in the airline industry

Mon Aug 07, 2017 3:55 pm

AZa346 wrote:
Cabin crew and pilots are normal humans, of course, so there will be the average amount of them who are smokers. of course they work long shifts in environments where smoking is strictly forbidden, for everyone's health and safety. but since the average smoker needs a cig every hour, do they get to get off in between short haul flights to an area far away from planes, refueling trucks and so on, where it is safe to have a smoke, or they ''simply'' wait for their shift to end, once they get out of the airport?
of course for long haul crews the story is different, as they are in the plane for >10 hours so they definitely have to wait! of course people already know the limitations they will encounter by choosing this type of career so i am not trying to make it an issue, it is just curiosity!
personal experience? heard stories? thanks for sharing!


Not all crews wait to get back onto the ground. Although it's been many years, I remember a couple of captains that would smoke in the cockpit while inflight - one would turn it into a crew smoking lounge with the first officer and one of the flight attendants joining in (I waited in the cabin). I remember another captain who during extended delays on the ground, would open his side window and light a cigarette up. Yes, all of that was against policy.
My statements do not represent my former employer or my current employer and are my opinions only.
 
User avatar
pwm2txlhopper
Posts: 1243
Joined: Tue Jan 27, 2004 10:40 am

Re: Smoking in the airline industry

Mon Aug 07, 2017 4:11 pm

They smoke in the cockpit once the door is shut. Or, if on the ground, they crack the cockpit window. When I was a ramp agent for DL at PWM, we would sometimes find the evidence (ashes, butts) while servicing the cockpit during RONs. Once found a Penthouse under the captains seat, too.

As a smoker, yes, I usually have 3-4 cigarettes per hour. However, I can refrain if on a long haul flight. Odorless e-cig cartridges work great too. No smell, no tell.
 
AZa346
Topic Author
Posts: 92
Joined: Sun Jun 26, 2016 2:58 pm

Re: Smoking in the airline industry

Mon Aug 07, 2017 4:21 pm

thanks for your replies! definitely very interesting!
do you think there is a brand that is more common between aviators? for example Winston made a special packaging with airport codes and maps, that would sound like a good reason for them to be liked in that environment
 
User avatar
longhauler
Posts: 5708
Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 12:00 am

Re: Smoking in the airline industry

Mon Aug 07, 2017 4:22 pm

It has been a very very very long time since I have encountered a pilot who smoked. It is just not practical, and when working, virtually impossible. Most airports to which I fly don't even have a smoking lounge. It's just not cool any more.

I understand that airline rules vary from airline to airline and air regulations vary from country to country ... but where I fly, it is strictly against company policy and against civil air regulations. Anyone caught violating this policy or air regulation will be fired.

Much like alcohol addiction, the company will offer all possible assitance to overcome nicotine addiction before it enters the operation ... but offers very little sympathy if violated while at work.
Just because I stopped arguing, doesn't mean I think you are right. It just means I gave up!
 
nitepilot79
Posts: 1075
Joined: Tue May 20, 2008 9:10 pm

Re: Smoking in the airline industry

Mon Aug 07, 2017 4:43 pm

Yep, I miss the good ol' days when people weren't quite so twisted-up about smoking. A while back (before 9/11) I was in transit at PIT and trying to find a place to smoke, so I asked one of the airport staff if there was a place to do so. She told me I could smoke in a nearby stairwell. God DAMN, it was a different world back then.
 
NozPerry
Posts: 95
Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2015 12:12 am

Re: Smoking in the airline industry

Mon Aug 07, 2017 4:55 pm

I normally get off down route for a cigarette (on T/A) sometimes with another cabin crew or with a pilot. Sometimes it's just what you need after a flight
I love the feel of a Go Around in the morning
 
AZa346
Topic Author
Posts: 92
Joined: Sun Jun 26, 2016 2:58 pm

Re: Smoking in the airline industry

Mon Aug 07, 2017 6:03 pm

Again, thank you for Your replies!
 
User avatar
Slug71
Posts: 911
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2017 6:08 am

Re: Smoking in the airline industry

Mon Aug 07, 2017 6:14 pm

Good thread. Have always wondered this myself.
 
BravoOne
Posts: 2706
Joined: Fri Apr 12, 2013 2:27 pm

Re: Smoking in the airline industry

Mon Aug 07, 2017 6:57 pm

I have not seen or heard of anyone smoking on the flight deck of a Delta aircraft in at least 30 years.
 
Newbiepilot
Posts: 2825
Joined: Tue Aug 30, 2016 10:18 pm

Re: Smoking in the airline industry

Mon Aug 07, 2017 7:01 pm

AZa346 wrote:
Cabin crew and pilots are normal humans, of course, so there will be the average amount of them who are smokers. !


I don't find that true at all. I believe we have posts from people coming from a wide variety of places in the world.

In the United States it is not common at all for pilots or cabin crew to smoke. There simply isn't time in a shift. Even when working short segments, there is rarely time for a smoke break between flights. Fewer and fewer airports have smoking areas in the secure zone. Finding time to get food can be tough enough. Getting to baggage claim to smoke is virtually impossible.

I believe in other parts of the world where smoking is more common you will find more crew smoking but still likely less than the average population. I have seen mechanics, etc smoking in planes when no passengers are aboard. More commonly on non-US airlines. I would imagine strict punishment for anyone at a US airline found smoking on an airplane even if they are by themselves.
 
Sancho99504
Posts: 445
Joined: Sun Dec 11, 2005 2:44 pm

Re: Smoking in the airline industry

Mon Aug 07, 2017 7:23 pm

It's been a few years, but I've seen plenty of freighter pilots smoking on the aircraft. I've been upstairs on some US registered 747s that smelled awful, saturated in smoke and nicotine. I've been on a few flights in the last 2 years where you can smell the smoke permeating from the cockpit. It does happen, not near as much as back in the 90s when I started.
kill 'em all and let God sort 'em out-USMC
 
coolian2
Posts: 2423
Joined: Sun Oct 22, 2006 3:34 pm

Re: Smoking in the airline industry

Mon Aug 07, 2017 8:31 pm

I guess this thread is predicated on people needing to smoke every hour. My partner smokes (no I'm not happy about it, fyi) but has and can go days without. Not everyone who smokes needs to be clutching a cigarette every hour, on the hour.

I mean, hell, I can smoke a few and go months before I feel like smoking again.
Q300/ATR72-600/737-200/-300/-400/-700/-800/A320/767-200/-300/757-200/777-300ER/
747-200/-300/-400/ER/A340-300/A380-800/MD-83/-88/CRJ-700/-900
 
n757kw
Posts: 422
Joined: Sat Sep 13, 2003 3:08 am

Re: Smoking in the airline industry

Mon Aug 07, 2017 8:50 pm

I regularly escort cockpit crew off the ramp and warehouse so they can smoke between cargo flights. It is amazing on many of my trans pacific flights, someone smokes in the lavatory. You might not notice it, but the non smokers will.

N757KW
"What we've got here, is failure to communicate." from Cool Hand Luke
 
F27500
Posts: 451
Joined: Sun May 07, 2017 12:52 am

Re: Smoking in the airline industry

Mon Aug 07, 2017 10:48 pm

Never forget my days as a FA on the F27 back in the 80s ... we had a smoking section on board! The last 5 rows .. when I wanted, I just sat in a pax seat or even on my jumpseat back in the galley next to the pax door ... those were the days!! ;)
 
spinotter
Posts: 117
Joined: Wed May 27, 2015 1:37 am

Re: Smoking in the airline industry

Mon Aug 07, 2017 11:05 pm

coolian2 wrote:
I guess this thread is predicated on people needing to smoke every hour. My partner smokes (no I'm not happy about it, fyi) but has and can go days without. Not everyone who smokes needs to be clutching a cigarette every hour, on the hour.

I mean, hell, I can smoke a few and go months before I feel like smoking again.


I am the same way you are - I enjoy smoking a cigarette, but I don't have another one until weeks later. But among my friends I see that for most people, tobacco addiction is stronger than alcohol or any other drug.
 
77H
Posts: 916
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2016 11:27 pm

Re: Smoking in the airline industry

Mon Aug 07, 2017 11:40 pm

spinotter wrote:
coolian2 wrote:
I guess this thread is predicated on people needing to smoke every hour. My partner smokes (no I'm not happy about it, fyi) but has and can go days without. Not everyone who smokes needs to be clutching a cigarette every hour, on the hour.

I mean, hell, I can smoke a few and go months before I feel like smoking again.


I am the same way you are - I enjoy smoking a cigarette, but I don't have another one until weeks later. But among my friends I see that for most people, tobacco addiction is stronger than alcohol or any other drug.


I agree and I have always found it interesting that, at least in the United States Alcoholism and Drug Addition is treated as a legit disease yet nicotine addiction is just cast aside. Most people who don't smoke have this nonchalant attitude towards those who "suffer" nicotine addiction relative to other substances. "Just quit smoking" as if it is that easy. Most people wouldn't tell an alcoholic to
just stop drinking". Smokers go through unpleasant withdrawals the same as alcoholics and drug addicts. Perhaps nicotine addiction doesn't get the same "respect" as alcoholism and drug addition because the destructive impact of nicotine is not as outwardly noticeable as say alcoholism and drug addiction. By that I mean someone who is addicted to nicotine can still lead a relatively "normal" life relative to the other two major addictions. I know quite a few smokers and the longer someone smokes, the harder it is to break the habit. Many people never do. I personally believe the same awareness and compassion should be paid to nicotine addiction as the other major forms of substance abuse.

77H
 
User avatar
jetsetterP
Posts: 2
Joined: Fri Jun 17, 2016 8:16 am

Re: Smoking in the airline industry

Mon Aug 07, 2017 11:46 pm

I’m a flight attendant as well as a smoker. Even on a 5 leg day I can go without one from the morning at the layover until the next layover. Most of us can. Usually if we’re out smoking at the airport we’re on a sit of two hours or greater between flights and go outside security to smoke just to kill time. I personally as well as several people I know can go hours on end for the longest flights and even days without a cigarette. For me, it’s more of an at work thing because I rarely do when I’m at home.
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre.
 
Andre3K
Posts: 338
Joined: Tue May 30, 2017 10:11 pm

Re: Smoking in the airline industry

Tue Aug 08, 2017 12:36 am

pwm2txlhopper wrote:
They smoke in the cockpit once the door is shut. Or, if on the ground, they crack the cockpit window. When I was a ramp agent for DL at PWM, we would sometimes find the evidence (ashes, butts) while servicing the cockpit during RONs. Once found a Penthouse under the captains seat, too.

As a smoker, yes, I usually have 3-4 cigarettes per hour. However, I can refrain if on a long haul flight. Odorless e-cig cartridges work great too. No smell, no tell.


I must not be the "average smoker" then because i work 9-10 hour shifts at least 6 days a week and only smoke before and after work.

My stay at home wife smokes at most 1 per hour but usually 1 every 2 hours.
 
User avatar
PPVLC
Posts: 177
Joined: Mon May 08, 2017 12:07 pm

Re: Smoking in the airline industry

Tue Aug 08, 2017 12:51 am

I've never smoked but I felt sorry for my colleagues when the ban started, some escaped to the cockpit for a ciggy, some resorted to patches and chewing gums, they all looked desperate on long haul flights. One thing is true, I'm glad smoking in planes is something from the past, I had two fire incidents on board caused by cigarettes, they were quickly controlled before turning into a tragedy but the lesson remained, don't trust them cigarettes...
Cabin crew L188 707 727 737 767 A300 DC10 MD11 777 747
 
User avatar
gatibosgru
Posts: 971
Joined: Thu Oct 18, 2007 2:48 pm

Re: Smoking in the airline industry

Tue Aug 08, 2017 12:58 am

As a "former" smoker who finds a way to sneak one here and there, the industry has long moved past smokers and I do not see a return to it, unless Marijuana really ends up taking off (and even then, now most of my friends vape anyway).

I don't see a future for lounges at all. Nicotine is on its way out. And THC will (and should) be looked at as alcohol, no where CLOSE to the cockpit.
Last edited by gatibosgru on Tue Aug 08, 2017 12:59 am, edited 2 times in total.
@DadCelo
 
panampreflight
Posts: 132
Joined: Tue Feb 16, 2016 1:12 am

Re: Smoking in the airline industry

Tue Aug 08, 2017 1:03 am

gatibosgru wrote:
As a "former" smoker who finds a way to sneak one here and there, the industry has long moved past smokers and I do not see a return to it, unless Marijuana really ends up taking off (and even then, now most of my friends vape anyway).

I don't see a future for lounges at all. Nicotine is on its way out. And THC will (and should) be looked at as alcohol, no where CLOSE to the cockpit.


Well they banned the Vape too!.
 
User avatar
XLA2008
Posts: 354
Joined: Mon May 30, 2016 8:53 pm

Re: Smoking in the airline industry

Tue Aug 08, 2017 1:16 am

AZa346 wrote:
Cabin crew and pilots are normal humans, of course, so there will be the average amount of them who are smokers. of course they work long shifts in environments where smoking is strictly forbidden, for everyone's health and safety. but since the average smoker needs a cig every hour, do they get to get off in between short haul flights to an area far away from planes, refueling trucks and so on, where it is safe to have a smoke, or they ''simply'' wait for their shift to end, once they get out of the airport?
of course for long haul crews the story is different, as they are in the plane for >10 hours so they definitely have to wait! of course people already know the limitations they will encounter by choosing this type of career so i am not trying to make it an issue, it is just curiosity!
personal experience? heard stories? thanks for sharing!


We either get off on turnaround and run into the terminal to smoke before boarding to fly back, or if we have finished refueling and are waiting on the passengers we sometimes smoke in the back galley of the aircraft, not all airlines allow this, different rules for different airlines, one of the airlines I used to fly for would allow you to smoke onboard during a long haul flight, providing you were away from passengers (crew rest or back galley) if the captain allowed it you could also smoke in the flight deck, a couple airlines I used to fly for allow this... again dependent on the airline and the policy, otherwise, put on a nicotine patch and suck it up until you get the chance!

In all honesty when I'm at work I can go 10-18 hours without having one, and not even think about it, at home its a totally different story lol!
| A.J-B |

“For once you have tasted flight you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards, for there you have been and there you will long to return.“
 
69bug
Posts: 77
Joined: Tue Mar 11, 2014 12:28 pm

Re: Smoking in the airline industry

Tue Aug 08, 2017 1:24 am

A lot of pilots opt for freighters as smoking on board was one of the pluss points (this would be a minus if you were a non-smoker!). I remember even in 2004 the airline I worked for had a lot of older guys on the 74F who smoked like a chimney.. out of respect for the other 2 crewmembers they did not smoke up front but walked back.. to where I was! The scene on the MD11Fs was different as they were usually younger .. i'm sure some did smoke but I think that it was an exception rather than the norm.

On this same airline's pax 747 the cabin crews could be see at the rear galleys with a cup of water in hand and a cigarette in the other with door 5L or 5R open. I suppose the idea was if anything were to happen the idea was to quickly douse the cigarette!

We were one of the last to have smoking zones as well.. the thing that struck me was even smokers did not want to sit there. They would sit in the non smoking seat but go back to the smoking rows for a quick puff. The non-smoking row thing was not strictly enforced. The cleaners were instructed to empty the ashtray in the smoking rows plus the few rows ahead (we could extend if there was demand) but the ashtrays in the rest of the seats were not emptied. We sometimes got complaints from other passengers who objected to seeing cigarette butts in the ashtrays in the non-smoking seats.

When pre-planning the flight-seating (called editing back then) it was usual to leave a gap between the smoking and non smoking seats if the flight load permitted. As a non rev these seats were usually offerred to you... not really fun if you were a non smoker. Having said that there would be a fixed pattern. Once the no-smoking light went on a few guys would light up creating a fug. similarly after a meal .. the rest of the time on a long haul it was just intermittent and usually coincided with a toilet break so it was not so noticeable, it wasn't as if there were 10 guys puffing away at once.

I also think airlines saved a bit by going non-smoking...the air-conditioning/filters had an easier life and they used to spend a lot on cabin sprays to get rid of the stench!

bug
 
JAGflyer
Posts: 3528
Joined: Tue Aug 10, 2004 5:31 am

Re: Smoking in the airline industry

Tue Aug 08, 2017 2:41 am

From my experience, ramp staff find secluded areas around the baggage rooms and corridors which become impromptu smoking rooms. Maintenance may leave the airside area (via vehicle) and smoke on the non-secure side. I recall one company I worked for also having a crawlspace/plumbing room in their line office where they'd sneak a smoke. Once the airport/management found out, the room was promptly locked to prevent access to this space. Pilots/crews often smoke wherever possible be it airport smoking rooms or curbside. One pilot I know will have 2-3 between departing the office and getting to the plane. He'll then go have another 2 or so during the stop-over before returning back to base and having another one while waiting for the crew shuttle.

E-cigarette use was also expressly banned in the flight decks as well after they got caught by a non-vaping colleague. Cigarette smoking in North American cockpits is something I haven't heard of for years and the last carrier I heard where it was done operated freighters 10+ years ago. I know for a fact that it is common on some Asian carriers (the non-premium ones) for the crew to smoke in the flight deck. In fact, I smelt the faint stale smoke aroma in the flight deck even on a plane that was previously operated by one of the East-Asian carriers despite it coming out of a full check before being delivered second-hand to my airline.
If you flew today, thank a Flight Dispatcher!
 
OB1504
Posts: 3310
Joined: Tue Jul 27, 2004 5:10 am

Re: Smoking in the airline industry

Tue Aug 08, 2017 3:49 am

I started smoking as a ticket agent for stress relief. There was a designated smoking area in the parking garage across the street from the terminal where I would go smoke. Toward the end of my ticket agent days, we were so short staffed that I couldn't get away from the counter to smoke as there were frequently times when I was the only one on duty, so I ended up quitting.

Now that I work in ops, there are designated smoking areas on the ramp that see frequent use.
 
747WanSui
Posts: 171
Joined: Tue Jun 14, 2005 10:06 pm

Re: Smoking in the airline industry

Tue Aug 08, 2017 4:20 am

I personally know someone who, when traveling from China to the US, always chooses to fly with a particular pilot with China Eastern Airlines, since that pilot will allow him to smoke together with him onboard (presumably away from the others).
Long live the Boeing 747!
 
User avatar
N14AZ
Posts: 3107
Joined: Sat Feb 24, 2007 10:19 pm

Re: Smoking in the airline industry

Tue Aug 08, 2017 4:58 am

jetjeanes wrote:
blow the smoke into the sink and it sucks it out ,,, at the same time holding your jacket over the smoke detector.

Wow, how many years of Yoga practicing do you need to blow into the sink while holding your jacket over the smoke detector?
 
Airlinerdude
Posts: 29
Joined: Tue Mar 30, 2010 3:07 am

Re: Smoking in the airline industry

Tue Aug 08, 2017 4:59 am

It's still pretty common to have the flight deck crew on several Chinese carriers smoke in the cockpit. Apparently it can become quite nasty on some of those longer flights.
 
User avatar
cougar15
Posts: 1251
Joined: Thu Sep 05, 2013 6:10 pm

Re: Smoking in the airline industry

Tue Aug 08, 2017 5:20 am

Whilst smoking was banned for crew at my previous (freight) outfit, nobody stuck to it. On the 744F, the galley sink actually continuously draws/sucks out, be it water or air. So the routine was basically to ´smoke at the kitchen sink´ and blow your smoke ´down the sink´. that worked fine ...
On other aircraft, the skippers often resorted to things like cans of aerosol, especially/mainly when returning to the home base. at the airports, there is always a dark corner under terminal or near the freight warehouses where smoking is quietly accepted for all the ramp/ground staff to retreat to. for cabin crew it is a whole different ball game of course, needless to say, plenty of captains still smoke in the cockpit and it discretely overlooked by the carriers.....
some you lose, others you can´t win!
 
User avatar
seahawk
Posts: 6675
Joined: Fri May 27, 2005 1:29 am

Re: Smoking in the airline industry

Tue Aug 08, 2017 6:57 am

Depends on the carrier. the problem is with strict company policy and many non-smokers around, hiding it becomes difficult, because non-smokers will smell it, even if the smoker thinks they can not.
 
AZa346
Topic Author
Posts: 92
Joined: Sun Jun 26, 2016 2:58 pm

Re: Smoking in the airline industry

Tue Aug 08, 2017 11:53 am

Very interesting stories, thanks!
 
BravoOne
Posts: 2706
Joined: Fri Apr 12, 2013 2:27 pm

Re: Smoking in the airline industry

Tue Aug 08, 2017 12:00 pm

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe Alaska Airlines prohibits smoking anywhere, anytime, period. Not even in your home. I other words, you need to be a non smoker if want to work there.
 
AZa346
Topic Author
Posts: 92
Joined: Sun Jun 26, 2016 2:58 pm

Re: Smoking in the airline industry

Tue Aug 08, 2017 1:04 pm

BravoOne wrote:
Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe Alaska Airlines prohibits smoking anywhere, anytime, period. Not even in your home. I other words, you need to be a non smoker if want to work there.

Can they even do that? And how are they going to Know if you had a smoke or two when you were,at home?
 
BravoOne
Posts: 2706
Joined: Fri Apr 12, 2013 2:27 pm

Re: Smoking in the airline industry

Tue Aug 08, 2017 1:11 pm

Only a guess, but I assume this has been through the courts?
 
Newbiepilot
Posts: 2825
Joined: Tue Aug 30, 2016 10:18 pm

Re: Smoking in the airline industry

Tue Aug 08, 2017 1:28 pm

AZa346 wrote:
BravoOne wrote:
Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe Alaska Airlines prohibits smoking anywhere, anytime, period. Not even in your home. I other words, you need to be a non smoker if want to work there.

Can they even do that? And how are they going to Know if you had a smoke or two when you were,at home?


Alaska Airlines drug tests employees when they hire them and that includes a nicotine test. Failing the nicotine test will prohibit employment where allowed by law. Most of Alaska's employees are in Washington where it is legal. Being a smoker is not a protected class in most states. In an at will or some variation state, an employer can fire or refuse to hire you for any reason that isn't a protected class.

From what I have heard, the airline can't necessarily fire you if you start smoking while working there. It depends on the state. In most states though they can drug test you and charge higher insurance rates and also require smoking quitting programs. They also do not provide smoke breaks or allow smoking at your work location, which can include the entire airport if you have airport access credentials and are in uniform.
Last edited by Newbiepilot on Tue Aug 08, 2017 1:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
ChrisKen
Posts: 288
Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2008 11:15 pm

Re: Smoking in the airline industry

Tue Aug 08, 2017 1:28 pm

Depends on the laws of the state. 29 states say you can't, but obviously Alaska is in one you can reject on these grounds.
 
panampreflight
Posts: 132
Joined: Tue Feb 16, 2016 1:12 am

Re: Smoking in the airline industry

Tue Aug 08, 2017 2:07 pm

BravoOne wrote:
Only a guess, but I assume this has been through the courts?



Way back in the 70's, Bank of America was stopping smoking in its executive / administration offices in California and they were sued by a workers group. One of the
first big decisions was the court sided with BA Corp. because they did not have to provide smoking breaks, and all the other costs that go with that addictive habit.
 
JeremyB
Posts: 162
Joined: Mon Jul 18, 2016 12:56 pm

Re: Smoking in the airline industry

Tue Aug 08, 2017 2:38 pm

I've been working at a major airport for a couple of years now and what I noticed is that pilots from airlines in Asia do smoke in the flight deck, especially on cargo flights. The ashtrays are always full of cigarettes and the smell is nauseating even though I myself smoke.
 
User avatar
Phosphorus
Posts: 226
Joined: Tue May 16, 2017 11:38 am

Re: Smoking in the airline industry

Tue Aug 08, 2017 2:58 pm

Newbiepilot wrote:
AZa346 wrote:
BravoOne wrote:
Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe Alaska Airlines prohibits smoking anywhere, anytime, period. Not even in your home. I other words, you need to be a non smoker if want to work there.

Can they even do that? And how are they going to Know if you had a smoke or two when you were,at home?


Alaska Airlines drug tests employees when they hire them and that includes a nicotine test. Failing the nicotine test will prohibit employment where allowed by law. Most of Alaska's employees are in Washington where it is legal. Being a smoker is not a protected class in most states. In an at will or some variation state, an employer can fire or refuse to hire you for any reason that isn't a protected class.

From what I have heard, the airline can't necessarily fire you if you start smoking while working there. It depends on the state. In most states though they can drug test you and charge higher insurance rates and also require smoking quitting programs. They also do not provide smoke breaks or allow smoking at your work location, which can include the entire airport if you have airport access credentials and are in uniform.


Unless I'm mistaken, US airline labor is regulated by Railway Labor Act, not individual state statutes.
If it were otherwise, many airlines, these days, would re-incorporate in a "right-to-work" state, and simply throw out inconvenient unionized employees in case of a dispute, and hire brand-new staff instead.

Is there a way how a local rule impacts a federally-regulated employment environment?
AN4 A40 L4T TU3 TU5 IL6 ILW I93 F50 F70 100 146 ARJ AT7 DH4 L10 CRJ ERJ E90 DC-9 MD-8X YK4 YK2 SF3 S20 319 320 321 332 333 343 346 722 732 733 734 735 73G 738 739 744 74M 757 767 777
Ceterum autem censeo, Moscovia esse delendam
 
Italianflyer
Posts: 606
Joined: Sun Nov 11, 2007 3:06 pm

Re: Smoking in the airline industry

Tue Aug 08, 2017 3:35 pm

Can any AS folks clarify the current tobacco policy? I was under the (possibly wrong) impression that they moved away from the no-tobacco pre-employment prerequisite because of the myriad of state specific vetting laws.
 
Dominion301
Posts: 1213
Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2016 1:48 pm

Re: Smoking in the airline industry

Tue Aug 08, 2017 3:52 pm

longhauler wrote:
It has been a very very very long time since I have encountered a pilot who smoked. It is just not practical, and when working, virtually impossible. Most airports to which I fly don't even have a smoking lounge. It's just not cool any more.

I understand that airline rules vary from airline to airline and air regulations vary from country to country ... but where I fly, it is strictly against company policy and against civil air regulations. Anyone caught violating this policy or air regulation will be fired.

Much like alcohol addiction, the company will offer all possible assitance to overcome nicotine addiction before it enters the operation ... but offers very little sympathy if violated while at work.


Not to mention likely arrest. Thank goodness for that here in Canada.

While I respect an individual's "right" to smoke in private, in any indoor public area (and some outdoor areas door), I am so thankful for the complete ban. The smell is repulsive and as a life-long non-smoker, since total smoking bans came about just after the turn of the century, I can pick up the stench from a cigarette sometimes 100 metres away. :(

Want to be seen as "cool" in today's society? Quit!...easier said than done for a product that's designed to be addictive.
 
User avatar
JetBuddy
Posts: 1904
Joined: Wed Dec 25, 2013 1:04 am

Re: Smoking in the airline industry

Tue Aug 08, 2017 4:34 pm

In Norway and Sweden, most smokers have either quit or started with "snus" instead. Sometimes people do both.
 
User avatar
Polot
Posts: 8193
Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2011 3:01 pm

Re: Smoking in the airline industry

Tue Aug 08, 2017 4:47 pm

Phosphorus wrote:
Unless I'm mistaken, US airline labor is regulated by Railway Labor Act, not individual state statutes.
If it were otherwise, many airlines, these days, would re-incorporate in a "right-to-work" state, and simply throw out inconvenient unionized employees in case of a dispute, and hire brand-new staff instead.

Is there a way how a local rule impacts a federally-regulated employment environment?

The RLA primarily governs labor relations and the rights of the employees to organize (unionize) and strike. It has little to do with regulations airlines must follow when it comes to hiring (which are governed by other state and federal laws).
 
User avatar
Phosphorus
Posts: 226
Joined: Tue May 16, 2017 11:38 am

Re: Smoking in the airline industry

Tue Aug 08, 2017 6:31 pm

Polot wrote:
Phosphorus wrote:
Unless I'm mistaken, US airline labor is regulated by Railway Labor Act, not individual state statutes.
If it were otherwise, many airlines, these days, would re-incorporate in a "right-to-work" state, and simply throw out inconvenient unionized employees in case of a dispute, and hire brand-new staff instead.

Is there a way how a local rule impacts a federally-regulated employment environment?

The RLA primarily governs labor relations and the rights of the employees to organize (unionize) and strike. It has little to do with regulations airlines must follow when it comes to hiring (which are governed by other state and federal laws).


OK, thanks!
Still, that leaves out a possibility of a pilot picking up smoking later.
Is that violation (smoking) included in ALPA's contract with Alaska Airlines as grounds for possible dismissal? If not, and if a smoking pilot is fired, that has to count as a wrongful dismissal, no?
AN4 A40 L4T TU3 TU5 IL6 ILW I93 F50 F70 100 146 ARJ AT7 DH4 L10 CRJ ERJ E90 DC-9 MD-8X YK4 YK2 SF3 S20 319 320 321 332 333 343 346 722 732 733 734 735 73G 738 739 744 74M 757 767 777
Ceterum autem censeo, Moscovia esse delendam
 
tofur
Posts: 65
Joined: Wed Jan 13, 2016 11:51 pm

Re: Smoking in the airline industry

Tue Aug 08, 2017 11:52 pm

I am a smoking cabin crew member. I routinely do long turns averaging 13 hour duty days without a cigarette and do not get off the aircraft to smoke on the turn. I do find it harder on overseas flights, 14 to 15 hours nonstop without a chance to smoke is tough. The difference is that psychologically you know that on the turn you do have the chance to smoke if you wish, even if you choose not to.

Being a smoker, it always amuses me how many non-smoking cabin crew members become smokers during cocktail hour on the layover!
 
F9Animal
Posts: 4027
Joined: Thu Dec 16, 2004 7:13 am

Re: Smoking in the airline industry

Wed Aug 09, 2017 2:22 am

Phosphorus wrote:
Newbiepilot wrote:
AZa346 wrote:
Can they even do that? And how are they going to Know if you had a smoke or two when you were,at home?


Alaska Airlines drug tests employees when they hire them and that includes a nicotine test. Failing the nicotine test will prohibit employment where allowed by law. Most of Alaska's employees are in Washington where it is legal. Being a smoker is not a protected class in most states. In an at will or some variation state, an employer can fire or refuse to hire you for any reason that isn't a protected class.

From what I have heard, the airline can't necessarily fire you if you start smoking while working there. It depends on the state. In most states though they can drug test you and charge higher insurance rates and also require smoking quitting programs. They also do not provide smoke breaks or allow smoking at your work location, which can include the entire airport if you have airport access credentials and are in uniform.


Unless I'm mistaken, US airline labor is regulated by Railway Labor Act, not individual state statutes.
If it were otherwise, many airlines, these days, would re-incorporate in a "right-to-work" state, and simply throw out inconvenient unionized employees in case of a dispute, and hire brand-new staff instead.

Is there a way how a local rule impacts a federally-regulated employment environment?


I did question Alaska about this policy. They will do nicotine tests in most of its stations. I know back in the late 1990's, Alaska workers in LAS were not subject to nicotine testing. I was going to apply with Alaska back then in LAS, and the station manager told me it was exempt in Vegas. I am told it is for insurance purposes. If you hop on Alaska's website, it does state under most jobs that nicotine tests are administered as part of the hiring process. I know Alaska had a lot of employees that smoked in SEA though. They must have started smoking after they got hired, or were hired before Alaska started testing for it.

That's about all I know of it. Maybe someone will be able to share more?
I Am A Different Animal!!
 
BravoOne
Posts: 2706
Joined: Fri Apr 12, 2013 2:27 pm

Re: Smoking in the airline industry

Wed Aug 09, 2017 11:59 am

I don't know but I doubt that smoking is addressed in any ALPA contract, either at AS or any US airline? Not within the scope of labor negotiations.

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos