7e72004
Posts: 3440
Joined: Thu Apr 01, 2004 12:15 am

Why No Double Decker From Boeing?

Sat Oct 23, 2004 5:31 am

With Boeing as the first company coming out with an upper deck on a commercial plane, why did they not go for the double decker. It seems logical that boeing would have had that upper hand.
The next generation of aircraft is just around the corner!
 
EMBQA
Posts: 7800
Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2003 3:52 am

RE: Why No Double Decker From Boeing?

Sat Oct 23, 2004 5:48 am

Simple...Cost. Boeing looked at extending the upper deck many years ago on the 747-400, but decided it was not a cost effective move.

Please people, lets not all get gooey eyed over the Airbus A380. It is yet to fly, yet to make a profit for an airline, yet to enter service and they are not really flying off the shelf....plus Airbus has sold just enough units so far to make it a profit, so by no means is it a sucess
"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
 
ORDagent
Posts: 580
Joined: Wed Dec 17, 2003 6:24 am

RE: Why No Double Decker From Boeing?

Sat Oct 23, 2004 5:50 am

They HAD a double decker. It was the boeing Stratocruiser prop of the post war era.


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Photo © Mel Lawrence



If you look closely you can see the lower deck windows right behind the trailing edge of the wing. There was a very lux lounge there with a spiral stairway to the main deck.

Boeing hasn't done a modern double decker because it wasn't needed and they still don't think it is based on the anti a380 propaganda.

 
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GEG
Posts: 306
Joined: Wed Oct 20, 2004 11:45 am

RE: Why No Double Decker From Boeing?

Sat Oct 23, 2004 5:53 am

Also doesn't the 747 get a little performance increase due to the upper deck it has?
I have no idea what I'm doing...
 
srbmod
Posts: 15446
Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2001 1:32 pm

RE: Why No Double Decker From Boeing?

Sat Oct 23, 2004 6:44 am

One of the original designs Boeing considered for the 747 was a double deck design. They have a number of designs ideas for the 747 that were for a double deck airliner, just with various differences like wings, fuselage types, tails, etc.
 
geoffm
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Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2004 5:58 am

RE: Why No Double Decker From Boeing?

Sat Oct 23, 2004 6:44 am

I saw a (repeat) TV programme the other day, pre A380 (they called it A3XX), with interviews with Boeing. Basically their spokesperson said "big jumbos don't sell as well in this day and age as medium sized planes" (not verbatim). In other words, planes in the 100-300 seat range sell better than the 400+ range.

But I'm sure Boeing will be watching the development of the A380 with great interest - but even then, Airbus will have stolen the show and sold the few (in relative terms) jumbos that will be required. Better to sell two $50m B777s than one $80m A380!

Geoff M.

PS Figures may not reflect reality and are for example only.
 
Alessandro
Posts: 4961
Joined: Wed Sep 12, 2001 3:13 am

RE: Why No Double Decker From Boeing?

Sat Oct 23, 2004 6:54 am

Well, they decided not to compete head to head with Airbus on this one.
Since the bought McDonnell-Douglas they could have continued working on the MD-12 but they choose not to....


From New Yorqatar to Califarbia...
 
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zippyjet
Posts: 5104
Joined: Tue Sep 04, 2001 3:32 pm

RE: Why No Double Decker From Boeing?

Sat Oct 23, 2004 1:16 pm

As long as the economy is in the toilet, producing another flying hippo would not be practical. Boeing has a lot on its plate with the up and coming shark tailed 787. Boeing and Airbus will carve out their niches within the industry. If they succeed and a demand rises, you can bet each will come out with their clone. Imititation is the best form of flattery.
And the double decker tubby prop Stratocruiser was not a 50's fav with the flying public and airlines. Boeing took the right flight path by really getting the jetage into high gear.

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In the USA, only PAA, NW, and UA flew these double decker birds in their nifty 50's fleets.

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Photo © Mel Lawrence

A livery even a mother could hate! BTW, wasn't this name used in airline disaster flicks?  Nuts

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Photo © Jacques Splint

having a swelled head is crazy!

http://www.cardatabase.net/modifiedairlinerphotos/search/photo_search.php?id=00000346

give this one a shark tail and voila, Boeing's incarnation of a tubby double decker!
I'm Zippyjet & I approve of this message!
 
kalakaua
Posts: 1430
Joined: Tue Jan 27, 2004 5:23 pm

RE: Why No Double Decker From Boeing?

Sat Oct 23, 2004 4:48 pm

I was also looking around MAP and found this funky looking aircraft...
http://www.cardatabase.net/modifiedairlinerphotos/search/photo_search.php?id=00000592
Gravity explains the motions of the planets, but it cannot explain who set the planets in motion.
 
studentflyer
Posts: 667
Joined: Sat Sep 25, 2004 9:02 am

RE: Why No Double Decker From Boeing?

Sat Oct 23, 2004 4:59 pm

Even the 747 wasn't initially designed to be a passenger aircraft. It was designed for cargo purposes so that the cargo could be loaded from the nose without interfering with the cockpit and crew area. It was a project as requested by the USAF (correct me if I'm wrong), but somehow this idea was implemented better to becoming a passenger jet. So even Boeing didn't design a double decker initially.

And yes, the B747SUDs have a better performance - aerodynamically - than those that have the short upper decks.

Regards,
AK
 
IDAWA
Posts: 281
Joined: Fri Aug 27, 2004 9:07 pm

RE: Why No Double Decker From Boeing?

Sat Oct 23, 2004 5:29 pm

Yes, the 747 with large upper deck (747-200SUD, 747-300, 747-400) have a better aerodynamics, because they better comply with the so-called "areas rule". You should imaginarily cut the aircraft perpendicularily while you move form the nose to the tail, and write down the areas of the different sections you find. Then, if you plot these areas on a graph (x=distance from radome, y=area of the section) you should find a regular shape, that first grows constantly from zero to a maximum value (more or less in corrispondance of the wings), then it decreases regulary to zero again.
If you do this analysis in a 747 with short upper deck, the cross section area drops aft of the upper deck, but then it grows again when you get to the wings. The extended upper deck avoids this, because it reaches the wings, so there is no cross section area dropping between the upper deck and the wing.

I-DAWA.
Flown on: 319, 320, 321, 340, 727, 737, 747, 757, 767, 777, DC9, D10, M11, M80, 146, EM2, BEH, CRJ, DH8, L4T.
 
GDB
Posts: 12914
Joined: Wed May 23, 2001 6:25 pm

RE: Why No Double Decker From Boeing?

Sat Oct 23, 2004 6:08 pm

In the early days of the 747, Boeing planned to stretch the aircraft, (with or without a SUD), then later have a double decker, then later still, a stretched double decker, all in two models, long range and domestic, the stretched double decker domestic model having a 1000 pax capacity.
They never happened as firstly the 1973 oil crisis and recession threw the industry into a tailspin and that engine development could not keep place with Boeing's plans, indeed the original JT-9Ds on the 747 were not at first providing the advertised power output.
 
kalakaua
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Joined: Tue Jan 27, 2004 5:23 pm

RE: Why No Double Decker From Boeing?

Sat Oct 23, 2004 6:11 pm

Gravity explains the motions of the planets, but it cannot explain who set the planets in motion.

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