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clickhappy
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BBJ N162WC Flying With Advanced Technology Winglet

Thu May 17, 2012 5:57 am

N162WC is flying with the new 737MAX style winglets - man does it look bad ass.
 
murchmo
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RE: BBJ N162WC Flying With Advanced Technology Winglet

Thu May 17, 2012 6:26 am

Pictures?? Where is it flying out of?   
to strive to seek to find and not to yield
 
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817Dreamliiner
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RE: BBJ N162WC Flying With Advanced Technology Winglet

Thu May 17, 2012 7:37 am

Are there any pics??? Im sure we would all like to see it 
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oldeuropean
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RE: BBJ N162WC Flying With Advanced Technology Winglet

Thu May 17, 2012 7:50 am

Wer nichts weiss muss alles glauben
 
qf002
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RE: BBJ N162WC Flying With Advanced Technology Winglet

Thu May 17, 2012 7:51 am

Quoting oldeuropean (Reply 3):

Any with the new winglets??
 
oldeuropean
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RE: BBJ N162WC Flying With Advanced Technology Winglet

Thu May 17, 2012 8:00 am

Quoting qf002 (Reply 4):
Any with the new winglets??

Ooops, sorry.
No pics to find with the new winglets.

Clickhappy are you sure about the dual feather winglets? Boeing just unveiled them 2 weeks ago, and only on computer drawings.

[Edited 2012-05-17 01:01:51]
Wer nichts weiss muss alles glauben
 
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solnabo
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RE: BBJ N162WC Flying With Advanced Technology Winglet

Thu May 17, 2012 8:14 am

Is B´s winglets called 'dual-feathered´ for the max model  

//Mike   
Airbus SAS - Love them both
 
murchmo
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RE: BBJ N162WC Flying With Advanced Technology Winglet

Thu May 17, 2012 9:08 am

No tracking for this bird on flight aware so if we know where it's flying maybe a spy can get some snapshots.
to strive to seek to find and not to yield
 
HullCitySpotter
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RE: BBJ N162WC Flying With Advanced Technology Winglet

Thu May 17, 2012 10:00 am

Found this on flickr... is this about right for the new MAX winglets? Because to me they look virtually the same
http://www.flickr.com/photos/planes/6924691456/
 
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817Dreamliiner
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RE: BBJ N162WC Flying With Advanced Technology Winglet

Thu May 17, 2012 10:10 am

Quoting HullCitySpotter (Reply 8):
Found this on flickr... is this about right for the new MAX winglets? Because to me they look virtually the same
http://www.flickr.com/photos/planes/6924691456/


Well clickhappy is usually well informed and a respected member on this forum. Maybe they are using this aircraft N162WC as a test bed for the new winglets. I would like to see a photo though 
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ghifty
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RE: BBJ N162WC Flying With Advanced Technology Winglet

Thu May 17, 2012 10:59 am

Quoting HullCitySpotter (Reply 8):

They are the same blended winglets as the current 737NG. Clickhappy probably saw N162WC in person fitted out with the AT winglets, or something.. but why would a VIP bird be getting the winglets? And how were they fabricated so quickly? Has the entire MAX operation at Boeing been as clandestine as the CSeries?
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dynamicsguy
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RE: BBJ N162WC Flying With Advanced Technology Winglet

Thu May 17, 2012 12:10 pm

Quoting ghifty (Reply 10):
but why would a VIP bird be getting the winglets? And how were they fabricated so quickly?

Possibly it's the Aviation Partners split tip being tested rather than the Boeing 737 Max version. I found this press release from back in October when they said:

Quote:
The Blended Split-Tip Scimitar Winglet is a follow-on design of API’s proven technology. The
Split Winglet features the addition of a Blended ventral fin to the existing Blended Winglet
design, in addition to Scimitar Tips and a reconfiguration of the span circle. Computational Fluid
Dynamics (CFD) results indicate a cruise performance gain of over 40% above the original
Blended Winglet configuration. This new design will be ready for flight test in the coming
months, and API is excited about its potential.
 
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clickhappy
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RE: BBJ N162WC Flying With Advanced Technology Winglet

Thu May 17, 2012 12:16 pm

Yes, there are pictures, but they cannot be shared, sorry.

Perhaps it is the Blended Split-Tip Scimitar Winglet, they look the same?
 
DashTrash
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RE: BBJ N162WC Flying With Advanced Technology Winglet

Thu May 17, 2012 12:25 pm

162WC. Is that ex-NJLA? WC often replaces QS when a frame leaves the NetJets fleet.
 
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817Dreamliiner
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RE: BBJ N162WC Flying With Advanced Technology Winglet

Thu May 17, 2012 12:41 pm

Quoting clickhappy (Reply 12):
Yes, there are pictures, but they cannot be shared, sorry.

Perhaps it is the Blended Split-Tip Scimitar Winglet, they look the same?

Hmmm too bad they cant be shared. It may very well be the split tip winglet, because I wouldnt have thought they would have the new winglets ready so quickly.
I'll wake from the dream, To keep and relive, Now life it is a dream, And dream's on a... BREAK!
 
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Devilfish
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RE: BBJ N162WC Flying With Advanced Technology Winglet

Thu May 17, 2012 2:28 pm

Guess we'll have to make do with the published image for the time being.....

.
http://www.flightglobal.com/blogs/ai.../05/Boeing%20737%20MAX-156093.html
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tjwgrr
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RE: BBJ N162WC Flying With Advanced Technology Winglet

Thu May 17, 2012 3:31 pm

Quoting clickhappy (Reply 12):
Perhaps it is the Blended Split-Tip Scimitar Winglet, they look the same?

Like this?

http://www.flickr.com/photos/flightblogger/6258436510/
Direct KNOBS, maintain 2700' until established on the localizer, cleared ILS runway 26 left approach.
 
qf002
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RE: BBJ N162WC Flying With Advanced Technology Winglet

Thu May 17, 2012 4:23 pm

Oh well... It's pretty hard to keep an operational aircraft hidden though, so I guess we'll get a good look soon enough!!
 
ghifty
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RE: BBJ N162WC Flying With Advanced Technology Winglet

Thu May 17, 2012 4:56 pm

Quoting dynamicsguy (Reply 11):
Possibly it's the Aviation Partners split tip being tested rather than the Boeing 737 Max version. I found this press release from back in October when they said:

Well they do like quite similar. IIRC, there was some angst over the similarities..

Quoting clickhappy (Reply 12):
Yes, there are pictures, but they cannot be shared, sorry.

   Can you at least confirm it looks *good* on the 737BBJ? You already confirmed it looks cool. 
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unattendedbag
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RE: BBJ N162WC Flying With Advanced Technology Winglet

Thu May 17, 2012 4:56 pm

Quoting clickhappy (Reply 12):
but they cannot be shared, sorry.

This thread is now front page news and there are no pictures. talk about popping the balloon. haha!
Slower traffic, keep right
 
davs5032
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RE: BBJ N162WC Flying With Advanced Technology Winglet

Thu May 17, 2012 8:47 pm

Quoting clickhappy (Reply 12):
Perhaps it is the Blended Split-Tip Scimitar Winglet, they look the same?

I'm guessing it's the Aviation Partners version...doesn't seem very likely to me that Boeing would be able to have their tips installed & flying already as the design was released so recently.
 
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clickhappy
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RE: BBJ N162WC Flying With Advanced Technology Winglet

Thu May 17, 2012 8:53 pm

Finally got a picture I can share

Aviation Partners Blended Split-Tip Scimitar Winglet
 
Phen
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RE: BBJ N162WC Flying With Advanced Technology Winglet

Thu May 17, 2012 8:58 pm

Oh dear that looks horrible  Wow! Its not as aesthetically pleasing as the standard winglet at all...

[Edited 2012-05-17 13:58:50]
 
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kc135topboom
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RE: BBJ N162WC Flying With Advanced Technology Winglet

Thu May 17, 2012 9:06 pm

Quoting clickhappy (Reply 24):
Finally got a picture I can share

That looks more like the Boeing version than the AP version. IIRC, the lower feather on the AP version went down at a steeper angle, perhaps 75 degrees to 80 degrees. The Boeing version is at about 45 degrees to 50 degrees down from the wing line as a horizon (approximately 3-5 degrees above the horizon at the wingtip compared to the wing root).
 
MaverickM11
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RE: BBJ N162WC Flying With Advanced Technology Winglet

Thu May 17, 2012 9:11 pm

Clearly the MD-11 was just too far ahead of its time   
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
at777
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RE: BBJ N162WC Flying With Advanced Technology Winglet

Thu May 17, 2012 9:30 pm

I actually think it looks awesome!
Gives it this "don't mess with me" aggressive look!

Not that my opinion counts on here but thought I'd share!

Ashley in CLT
 
davs5032
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RE: BBJ N162WC Flying With Advanced Technology Winglet

Thu May 17, 2012 9:36 pm

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 26):
That looks more like the Boeing version than the AP version.

I was thinking the opposite. The tips on this look more pointed than on the Boeing rendering, which have more of a flat edge on top and bottom. Tough to tell for sure from this angle though..
 
kcrwflyer
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RE: BBJ N162WC Flying With Advanced Technology Winglet

Thu May 17, 2012 9:39 pm

I can see ground crews running various pieces of equipment into that lower portion of the winglet pretty frequently.
 
ghifty
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RE: BBJ N162WC Flying With Advanced Technology Winglet

Thu May 17, 2012 10:44 pm

Looks like a bad picture. Angle-wise.

The winglet(s) itself look weird. The top one is curvy but the bottom one is linear. Doesn't really blend.
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rikkus67
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RE: BBJ N162WC Flying With Advanced Technology Winglet

Thu May 17, 2012 11:20 pm

Aviation Partners vs. Boeing Split-Tip Scimitar Winglet


Here is a quick side-by-side. We'll have to see which one is the "winner"....
AC.WA.CP.DL.RW.CO.WG.WJ.WN.KI.FL.SK.ACL.UA.US.F9
 
humanitarian
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RE: BBJ N162WC Flying With Advanced Technology Winglet

Thu May 17, 2012 11:36 pm

Quoting kcrwflyer (Reply 27):
I can see ground crews running various pieces of equipment into that lower portion of the winglet pretty frequently.

When I saw what Boeing proposed, that was my first thought.
 
ANM604
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RE: BBJ N162WC Flying With Advanced Technology Winglet

Thu May 17, 2012 11:42 pm

Quoting Humanitarian (Reply 30):

Agreed.

Otherwise, it doesn't look that bad. Mr. Washington sure has some nice planes!
 
Western727
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RE: BBJ N162WC Flying With Advanced Technology Winglet

Fri May 18, 2012 12:04 am

Quoting rikkus67 (Reply 29):

The newly-pictured N162WC seems to have a raked tip on the upper winglet. I wonder if the lower one is raked as well, though the angle of the photo makes it difficult for me to tell.
Jack @ AUS
 
CM
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RE: BBJ N162WC Flying With Advanced Technology Winglet

Fri May 18, 2012 12:28 am

Quoting clickhappy (Reply 21):
Finally got a picture I can share

This is clearly an Aviation Partners winglet, and not the MAX AT winglet. In addition to the "scimitar" tips, which are an API patented device, you can identify this as an API winglet by the blended (smoothly curved) transition between the planar wing and the vertical winglet. The new MAX AT winglet does not have this curved transition.

This blended transition on API winglets is their own unique invention, and is the intellectual property API has patented.

Patent # 5348253

Quote:
"In a critical departure from the usual winglet design approach, the sensitive transition section features a smoothly varying chord distribution which blends smoothly and continuously with the wing and with the adjoining straight section.”

This is the reason API is throwing a fit about the Airbus Sharklet - it appears to have API's patented "blended" transition.

As far as the new MAX AT winglet looking like the API "scimitar" winglet. This design is prior art which predates either manifestation. You will see similar wingtip devices on the MD-11, MD-12 and even some very old Rutan/Scaled Composites designs.
 
YVRLTN
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RE: BBJ N162WC Flying With Advanced Technology Winglet

Fri May 18, 2012 2:14 am

Quoting DashTrash (Reply 13):
162WC. Is that ex-NJLA? WC often replaces QS when a frame leaves the NetJets fleet.

It is ex Netjets (ex N129QS off the top of my head) but WC is for Washington Corp - they have a small fleet of aircraft and are very regular visitors to YVR, including a Twin Otter on floats which is pretty much based here in summer to fly to Dennis Washington's private island.

Havent seen the BBJ here in a while, this explains why - hopefully will get some shots.

My first thought is a big advance on the Airbus wing fence...
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lightsaber
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RE: BBJ N162WC Flying With Advanced Technology Winglet

Fri May 18, 2012 4:49 am

Quoting clickhappy (Reply 21):
Finally got a picture I can share

Thank you. Very interesting. This implies the AP winglet could be a retrofit!   

Quoting rikkus67 (Reply 29):
Here is a quick side-by-side. We'll have to see which one is the "winner"....

Could it be like the sharklets. One for new build and one for retrofit? Then again, I have trouble finding a business case for the cost of a 2nd set of winglets on the 737NG...

Lightsaber
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BlueSky1976
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RE: BBJ N162WC Flying With Advanced Technology Winglet

Fri May 18, 2012 5:26 am

It looks awfully ugly.
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JoeCanuck
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RE: BBJ N162WC Flying With Advanced Technology Winglet

Fri May 18, 2012 6:31 am

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 35):
This implies the AP winglet could be a retrofit!

When the story about the API winglets first came out, I believe they mentioned the possibility of retrofitting them to current blended winglets...without the need for further wing strengthening.
What the...?
 
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817Dreamliiner
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RE: BBJ N162WC Flying With Advanced Technology Winglet

Fri May 18, 2012 6:44 am

Quoting clickhappy (Reply 21):

Well that didnt take long  looks pretty good in my opinion. Definitely the Aviation Partners winglets.
I'll wake from the dream, To keep and relive, Now life it is a dream, And dream's on a... BREAK!
 
tguman
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RE: BBJ N162WC Flying With Advanced Technology Winglet

Sun May 27, 2012 4:45 pm

Have these advanced winglets now been removed. I just took a picture of it in CYYJ and it only had blended winglets. Any new info?
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lightsaber
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RE: BBJ N162WC Flying With Advanced Technology Winglet

Sun May 27, 2012 4:51 pm

Quoting JoeCanuck (Reply 37):
I believe they mentioned the possibility of retrofitting them to current blended winglets...without the need for further wing strengthening.

Thank you. I missed that reference. I wonder what the weight penalty will be? (If any)

Lightsaber
You only have the first amendment with the 2nd. If you're not going to offend someone with what you say, you don't have the 1st.
 
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sunking737
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RE: BBJ N162WC Flying With Advanced Technology Winglet

Mon May 28, 2012 9:23 am

Quoting kcrwflyer (Reply 27):
I can see ground crews running various pieces of equipment into that lower portion of the winglet pretty frequently.
Quoting Humanitarian (Reply 30):
Quoting kcrwflyer (Reply 27):
I can see ground crews running various pieces of equipment into that lower portion of the winglet pretty frequently.

When I saw what Boeing proposed, that was my first thought.

Wow Great minds do think a like. As soon as I saw this I said oh great another A/C part to watch out for. I was thinking more not from a rampers point of view, (bag carts) but from a catering point of view. I see this as being a catering drivers nightmare. I always hated when I had to drive between wing tips, Always had a spotter, and held my breath.
I'm a SUNDUCK......Worked for RC & SY @ MSP
 
humanitarian
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RE: BBJ N162WC Flying With Advanced Technology Winglet

Mon May 28, 2012 4:04 pm

Quoting sunking737 (Reply 41):
Wow Great minds do think a like. As soon as I saw this I said oh great another A/C part to watch out for. I was thinking more not from a rampers point of view, (bag carts) but from a catering point of view. I see this as being a catering drivers nightmare. I always hated when I had to drive between wing tips, Always had a spotter, and held my breath.

and fuel trucks....
 
workhorse
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RE: BBJ N162WC Flying With Advanced Technology Winglet

Wed May 30, 2012 9:03 am

Quoting CM (Reply 33):
This is clearly an Aviation Partners winglet, and not the MAX AT winglet. In addition to the "scimitar" tips, which are an API patented device, you can identify this as an API winglet by the blended (smoothly curved) transition between the planar wing and the vertical winglet. The new MAX AT winglet does not have this curved transition.

This blended transition on API winglets is their own unique invention, and is the intellectual property API has patented.

Patent # 5348253

Quote:
"In a critical departure from the usual winglet design approach, the sensitive transition section features a smoothly varying chord distribution which blends smoothly and continuously with the wing and with the adjoining straight section.”

This is the reason API is throwing a fit about the Airbus Sharklet - it appears to have API's patented "blended" transition.

Then how come they don't have problems with these:


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © BravoAlpha


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Alessandro Marini


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Konstantin von Wedelstaedt

 
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sunking737
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RE: BBJ N162WC Flying With Advanced Technology Winglet

Wed May 30, 2012 9:35 am

Quoting workhorse (Reply 43):
Then how come they don't have problems with these:

You have to realize things hanging down on a wing tend to get hit more then say a wing tip turned up. In my posting above, I am talking about the distance between wing tips of 2 737's sitting at a gate side by side. Just ask anyone who as been on the ramp any length of time.
I'm a SUNDUCK......Worked for RC & SY @ MSP
 
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817Dreamliiner
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RE: BBJ N162WC Flying With Advanced Technology Winglet

Wed May 30, 2012 10:08 am

Quoting sunking737 (Reply 44):
You have to realize things hanging down on a wing tend to get hit more then say a wing tip turned up. In my posting above, I am talking about the distance between wing tips of 2 737's sitting at a gate side by side. Just ask anyone who as been on the ramp any length of time.

I see where your coming from, I guess everything has its flaws.

Reminds me of this video from a while back:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9oh7VRdcm0A
I'll wake from the dream, To keep and relive, Now life it is a dream, And dream's on a... BREAK!
 
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AirPacific747
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RE: BBJ N162WC Flying With Advanced Technology Winglet

Wed May 30, 2012 10:21 am

That is one ugly winglet. Will be interesting to see exactly how much fuel it can save though.
 
CM
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RE: BBJ N162WC Flying With Advanced Technology Winglet

Wed May 30, 2012 2:35 pm

Quoting workhorse (Reply 43):

You need to read API's patent. The winglets you have shown in thre posted photos do not have the blended transition API has patented; they are all prior art. The A320 Sharklets appear to have it.
 
Western727
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RE: BBJ N162WC Flying With Advanced Technology Winglet

Wed May 30, 2012 3:22 pm

Quoting CM (Reply 47):

My thoughts exactly. So...any perspective on why Airbus appears to have "copied" API's patented blend...assuming that's technically true?
Jack @ AUS
 
tdscanuck
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RE: BBJ N162WC Flying With Advanced Technology Winglet

Wed May 30, 2012 3:26 pm

Quoting Western727 (Reply 48):
So...any perspective on why Airbus appears to have "copied" API's patented blend...assuming that's technically true?

If it's true, they either think that they've found a way around the patent (i.e. it's not actually infringing) or that the performance gain is worth the potential penalties (i.e. they know they're infringing but it makes business sense anyway).

Tom.

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