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KarelXWB
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Re: A350 Production And Delivery Thread Part 17

Wed May 10, 2017 9:43 pm

MSN 93 with final registration:

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Msn93 B-LRO 10/5/2017 by A380_TLS_A350, on Flickr

And MSN 111 TG heading to XFW today:

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AIB02GA msn111 ferry flight 10/5/2017 by A380_TLS_A350, on Flickr
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RalXWB
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Re: A350 Production And Delivery Thread Part 17

Thu May 11, 2017 7:38 am

Bostrom wrote:
RalXWB wrote:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C92r3N9XkAEpdul.jpg

When will Delta receive this one? :stirthepot:


If this list is correct, in August.


Thank you for the link!
 
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Re: A350 Production And Delivery Thread Part 17

Thu May 11, 2017 9:18 am

The A350-1000 is doing some tests at BSL today.

The A350-900 visited BSL frequently, can't remember for what purpose though.

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Re: A350 Production And Delivery Thread Part 17

Thu May 11, 2017 9:23 am

And the cabin equipped A350-1000 has departed on its first Early Long Flight today:

Hopping on board the #A350-1000 Early Long Flight above Europe with 300 Airbus employees to test the ✈️in typical operating conditions. #A350ELF

https://twitter.com/Airbus/status/862557791235518464

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Re: A350 Production And Delivery Thread Part 17

Thu May 11, 2017 10:59 am

DL's first A350 is tentatively scheduled for delivery on July 15th, and ferried to Atlanta in early August. There will be one delivery per month through November.
The PTS/Wifi install will be done in TLS at Airbus Corporate Jet Center as well.
 
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Re: A350 Production And Delivery Thread Part 17

Thu May 11, 2017 11:31 am

MSN 104 AY #9 is getting ready for its first flight: https://fr24.com/AIB01FW/d5abfa2

And MSN 107 SQ #14 performed a 3rd flight today, should move to the delivery centre shortly.
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Re: A350 Production And Delivery Thread Part 17

Thu May 11, 2017 1:01 pm

When will the first A350-1000s enter service?
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
Someone83
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Re: A350 Production And Delivery Thread Part 17

Thu May 11, 2017 1:04 pm

Delta is defering 10 A350 planned delivered 2019-2020 by 2-3 years. The other 15 on order will be delivered av scheduled

http://news.delta.com/delta-expand-airb ... deliveries
 
ap305
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Re: A350 Production And Delivery Thread Part 17

Thu May 11, 2017 2:35 pm

KarelXWB wrote:
The A350-1000 is doing some tests at BSL today.

The A350-900 visited BSL frequently, can't remember for what purpose though.

Image


IIRC one of the tests with the 900 involved a second round of low speed takeoffs (with the tail protection extended)
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Re: A350 Production And Delivery Thread Part 17

Thu May 11, 2017 3:21 pm

F-WWXL was doing touch and go's for about 40 minutes this morning at TLS. I grabbed a video but cropped off the climb out as I filmed it on my phone only.

https://youtu.be/DFY12vnLjSE
 
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Re: A350 Production And Delivery Thread Part 17

Thu May 11, 2017 3:38 pm

I also believe that a country's depreciation accounting rules play a part for aircraft retirement. Many Asian countries have a 12-15 year depreciation schedule, which would change how you do the accounting of assets.
 
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Re: A350 Production And Delivery Thread Part 17

Thu May 11, 2017 5:21 pm

Just as a sidenote, it is noteworthy, but we should not discuss it in detail here: There was a flightglobal article stating that the 9,700 nm figure "was always the intended performance capability for the type". They continued to say that the 8,700 nm figure came from SQ and based on the SIN-NYC route and this figure has been assumed as being the limiting range of the A350.

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... us-437060/

This is also discussed in the QF ULR thread.

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1353905&start=300
 
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Re: A350 Production And Delivery Thread Part 17

Thu May 11, 2017 7:22 pm

After some time sitting around I managed to catch F-WLXV landing back at at a wet TLS after the early long flight - 11hrs 25 mins. YouTube link below.

https://youtu.be/s5i_UppUECY
 
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Re: A350 Production And Delivery Thread Part 17

Thu May 11, 2017 9:44 pm

And so the A350-1000 completed its first long-haul flight with 300 passengers.

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Early Long Flight msn65 11/5/2017 by A380_TLS_A350, on Flickr
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trex8
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Re: A350 Production And Delivery Thread Part 17

Thu May 11, 2017 10:10 pm

Do we know when the first "regional" A359s for SQ are to be delivered??
 
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Re: A350 Production And Delivery Thread Part 17

Fri May 12, 2017 6:42 am

MSN 93 B-LRO is taxing out - probably heading home?

And airborne at 08:52
Last edited by Armodeen on Fri May 12, 2017 6:56 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
MD80MKE
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Re: A350 Production And Delivery Thread Part 17

Fri May 12, 2017 6:49 am

Armodeen wrote:
MSN 93 B-LRO is taxing out - probably heading home?

Yep, can confirm.
https://www.flightradar24.com/CPA3493/d5d5207
 
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Re: A350 Production And Delivery Thread Part 17

Fri May 12, 2017 7:49 am

Prost wrote:
I also believe that a country's depreciation accounting rules play a part for aircraft retirement. Many Asian countries have a 12-15 year depreciation schedule, which would change how you do the accounting of assets.


Most countries have shorter depreciation schedules than the USA.
 
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Re: A350 Production And Delivery Thread Part 17

Fri May 12, 2017 8:40 am

trex8 wrote:
Do we know when the first "regional" A359s for SQ are to be delivered??


2018 if I'm not mistaken.
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Re: A350 Production And Delivery Thread Part 17

Fri May 12, 2017 8:45 am

Press release on the Early Long Flight:

http://www.airbus.com/newsevents/news-e ... -maturity/

The A350-1000completed successfully its first and unique “Early Long Flight” with 310 passengers on board, including 10 Airbus Flight Test crew members and 13 Virgin Atlantic cabin crew. Test aircraft MSN065 took off from and landed in Toulouse on May 11th after a 12 hours flight.

During the long-haul flight the passengers, comprising Airbus employees and cabin crew personnel from Virgin Atlantic Airways - one of the 12 A350-1000 customers - were first to experience the Xtra wide comfort of the A350-1000. The early passengers were invited to try out and test the cabin systems, including air conditioning, lighting, acoustics, in-flight entertainment (IFE), galleys, electrics, washrooms and water waste systems.

Though not part of the technical certification programme, the Early Long Flight allows Airbus to assess cabin environment and systems in-flight and optimise cabin procedures to ensure full maturity at Entry Into Service for its customers.
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Re: A350 Production And Delivery Thread Part 17

Fri May 12, 2017 9:14 am

MSN 105 CI #6 is preparing for its second flight today:

https://fr24.com/AIB02FP/d5d79b7
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Re: A350 Production And Delivery Thread Part 17

Fri May 12, 2017 1:15 pm

Some cabin photos of the A350-1000 Early Long Flight: https://twitter.com/Airbus/status/863018187620798466
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Re: A350 Production And Delivery Thread Part 17

Sat May 13, 2017 9:03 am

G'day

Holy mackerel!

Qatars # 15 MSN 69 on its 4th outing

https://www.flightradar24.com/AIB04GZ/d607d08

they are really moving things :scratchchin:


Cheers

Peter
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Re: A350 Production And Delivery Thread Part 17

Sat May 13, 2017 9:05 am

Heavierthanair wrote:
Qatars # 19 MSN 69 on its 4th outing


Since it was sitting at the Delivery center, it could be a CAF.
 
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Re: A350 Production And Delivery Thread Part 17

Sat May 13, 2017 9:19 am

KarelXWB wrote:
Some cabin photos of the A350-1000 Early Long Flight: https://twitter.com/Airbus/status/863018187620798466


The high res version of the cockpit photo offers some interesting details- 4 hrs into the flight the aircraft has burnt 33t of fuel, has climbed to fl350, cruising at mach .854 and burning 6.8t of fuel per hour. Takeoff weight would have been 292t.
Racing, competing, is in my blood. It's part of me, it's part of my life; I've been doing it all my life. And it stands up before anything else- Ayrton Senna
 
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Re: A350 Production And Delivery Thread Part 17

Sat May 13, 2017 9:22 am

ap305 wrote:
KarelXWB wrote:
Some cabin photos of the A350-1000 Early Long Flight: https://twitter.com/Airbus/status/863018187620798466


The high res version of the cockpit photo offers some interesting details- 4 hrs into the flight the aircraft has burnt 33t of fuel, has climbed to fl350, cruising at mach .854 and burning 6.8t of fuel per hour. Takeoff weight would have been 292t.



Interesting but is this good as a metric compared to say the current 777 equivalent?
 
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Re: A350 Production And Delivery Thread Part 17

Sat May 13, 2017 10:34 am

StTim wrote:
ap305 wrote:
KarelXWB wrote:
Some cabin photos of the A350-1000 Early Long Flight: https://twitter.com/Airbus/status/863018187620798466


The high res version of the cockpit photo offers some interesting details- 4 hrs into the flight the aircraft has burnt 33t of fuel, has climbed to fl350, cruising at mach .854 and burning 6.8t of fuel per hour. Takeoff weight would have been 292t.



Interesting but is this good as a metric compared to say the current 777 equivalent?


My thoughts exactly, as well as the 787.
 
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Re: A350 Production And Delivery Thread Part 17

Sat May 13, 2017 11:43 am

kimimm19 wrote:

My thoughts exactly, as well as the 787.


The 787 in all variants is a much smaller and less capable aircraft than the a350-1000 hence any comparisons would be difficult.... A 777w operating at 90% of its mtow would be a valid comparison here but that would need information from a flight planning tool or the fcom.
Racing, competing, is in my blood. It's part of me, it's part of my life; I've been doing it all my life. And it stands up before anything else- Ayrton Senna
 
ap305
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Re: A350 Production And Delivery Thread Part 17

Sat May 13, 2017 11:54 am

A closer look at the screens in the photo reveals a prediction of 19.8t fob at TLS after a further 7hrs and 22mins in the air.... This equates to ~78t of fuel burn over a ~11:22 block time.
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Re: A350 Production And Delivery Thread Part 17

Sat May 13, 2017 1:35 pm

MSN 69 QR #15 completed a CAF today.

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AIB04GZ msn69 13/5/2017 by A380_TLS_A350, on Flickr
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Re: A350 Production And Delivery Thread Part 17

Sat May 13, 2017 2:54 pm

ap305 wrote:
kimimm19 wrote:

My thoughts exactly, as well as the 787.


The 787 in all variants is a much smaller and less capable aircraft than the a350-1000 hence any comparisons would be difficult.... A 777w operating at 90% of its mtow would be a valid comparison here but that would need information from a flight planning tool or the fcom.


I'm speaking more about a how the new generation aircraft compare to each other... And depending on how you see it, the a359 and the 781 are quite comparable in size...
 
kurtverbose
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Re: A350 Production And Delivery Thread Part 17

Sat May 13, 2017 3:00 pm

StTim wrote:
ap305 wrote:
KarelXWB wrote:
Some cabin photos of the A350-1000 Early Long Flight: https://twitter.com/Airbus/status/863018187620798466


The high res version of the cockpit photo offers some interesting details- 4 hrs into the flight the aircraft has burnt 33t of fuel, has climbed to fl350, cruising at mach .854 and burning 6.8t of fuel per hour. Takeoff weight would have been 292t.



Interesting but is this good as a metric compared to say the current 777 equivalent?


According to the 'Fuel Consumption Table' thread, a 777-300ER would be on 7.8 tonnes an hour. I don't know about the respective weights that's calculated on, but it's approx 15% better.
 
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Re: A350 Production And Delivery Thread Part 17

Sat May 13, 2017 3:35 pm

ap305 wrote:
kimimm19 wrote:

My thoughts exactly, as well as the 787.


The 787 in all variants is a much smaller and less capable aircraft than the a350-1000 hence any comparisons would be difficult.... A 777w operating at 90% of its mtow would be a valid comparison here but that would need information from a flight planning tool or the fcom.


Why this 90%? The moment you go for long haul the A350-1000 at MTOW will move a similar payload compared to the 777-300ER at MTOW with less fuel burn and looses less payload for additional range. On short trips the 777-300ER has a slight payload advantage with about 69 t compared to 65 for the A350-1000.
 
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Re: A350 Production And Delivery Thread Part 17

Sat May 13, 2017 3:37 pm

What's holding up Qatars A350 deliveries?
 
ap305
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Re: A350 Production And Delivery Thread Part 17

Sat May 13, 2017 4:16 pm

mjoelnir wrote:
ap305 wrote:
kimimm19 wrote:

My thoughts exactly, as well as the 787.


The 787 in all variants is a much smaller and less capable aircraft than the a350-1000 hence any comparisons would be difficult.... A 777w operating at 90% of its mtow would be a valid comparison here but that would need information from a flight planning tool or the fcom.


Why this 90%? The moment you go for long haul the A350-1000 at MTOW will move a similar payload compared to the 777-300ER at MTOW with less fuel burn and looses less payload for additional range. On short trips the 777-300ER has a slight payload advantage with about 69 t compared to 65 for the A350-1000.


Since the a351 is at 90% of its mtow in this particular case, I thought it would be fair to compare like for like....
Racing, competing, is in my blood. It's part of me, it's part of my life; I've been doing it all my life. And it stands up before anything else- Ayrton Senna
 
ap305
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Re: A350 Production And Delivery Thread Part 17

Sat May 13, 2017 4:20 pm

kurtverbose wrote:
According to the 'Fuel Consumption Table' thread, a 777-300ER would be on 7.8 tonnes an hour. I don't know about the respective weights that's calculated on, but it's approx 15% better.


8.1t was the real world figure quoted in another thread which brings it to around 18% better since the 77w will be slightly slower over the same distance... We need to also remember these are probably not production standard engines on the a351 and there could a further few percent on its way.
Racing, competing, is in my blood. It's part of me, it's part of my life; I've been doing it all my life. And it stands up before anything else- Ayrton Senna
 
StTim
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Re: A350 Production And Delivery Thread Part 17

Sun May 14, 2017 4:43 pm

I suppose MSN1 is being changed into the ULR configuration in order to do the certification testing or do the regional and ULR not need specific certification testing?
 
Geoff1947
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Re: A350 Production And Delivery Thread Part 17

Sun May 14, 2017 6:34 pm

TheGeordielad wrote:
What's holding up Qatars A350 deliveries?


Customer selected equipment - seats.
 
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Re: A350 Production And Delivery Thread Part 17

Sun May 14, 2017 8:48 pm

StTim wrote:
I suppose MSN1 is being changed into the ULR configuration in order to do the certification testing

If that's the case, then it raises the interesting question of how feasible/costly it is to convert a standard bird as such.
As in, when the 280T ton standard A359s debut in a few years, will they be modifiable to -ULR at customer request?

Airbus has advertised that an A359ULR can be reverted back to a standard configuration (though they're very scant on the details of how fully/closely/completely that can be done)... but they've never said anything about a standard bird being modified to -ULR after leaving the factory.

That IMO indicates that it might be intended as a 1way ordeal, but at this point, who knows.
Maybe Airbus itself hasn't yet come to a marketable conclusion on that issue.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
trex8
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Re: A350 Production And Delivery Thread Part 17

Sun May 14, 2017 9:58 pm

A one off conversion of a test platform for certification purposes versus a production line standard may be very different things.
 
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Re: A350 Production And Delivery Thread Part 17

Mon May 15, 2017 7:35 am

Maybe I missed it but I followed the three test A350-1000's for a while on a FR24, and so far I've not seen a single flight go higher then FL410, where the 359's routinely go to FL430. Just a coincidence or is the heavier 1000 less effective at higher altitude than the 900?
 
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Re: A350 Production And Delivery Thread Part 17

Mon May 15, 2017 8:46 am

ap305 wrote:
Since the a351 is at 90% of its mtow in this particular case, I thought it would be fair to compare like for like....


It is more like 94.7% of the A350-1000 MTOW. The fuel used at that point was 33.25t, if you take 500 kg for taxi, the flight fuel would be 32.75t. Current mass 258.9 t, so TOW=GW+FU = 291.65t. 291.65/308=94.7%.

The TAS is 497 kts at FL350, a 77W taking off at the same percentage of MTOW would be at FL330 with a TAS of 488 kt. The current fuel flow is 6800 kg/hr, a 77W after 4 hrs taking off at the same percentage of MTOW would be burning 8644 kg/hr, that represents 21.3% less fuel flow. In terms of specific range, 77W 8644/488 = 17.7 kg/nm, A350-1000 6800/497= 13.7 kg/nm, that represents a 22.8% reduction.

After 4 hours of flight time a 77W taking off at the same percentage of MTOW would have burnt 41.9 t of fuel, the A350-1000 32.75 t, that also is a 21.8% reduction. However in that time the A350 would have flown about 2% further in distance.

The A350-1000 at that point had 7:22 of flight time left and estimated to burn 45.7 t (65.5-19.8), average burn for the 7:22, 45.7/7:22=6.2 t/hr for the remainder of the flight. Overall total trip fuel would have been 78.45t (45.7+32.75) for 11:22 (7:22+4:00) flight time. A 77W would burn 105.9 t over that flight time. That represents 27.5 t less fuel for the sector in percentage terms a 25.9% reduction.

I should add, anyone suggesting that a 77W will burn less than 9t hr average on a long haul flight is dreaming, that is the sort of fuel burn a 77W will have at around 75% of MTOW, on a 11:22 flight a 77W would burn on average 9.3 t/hr. the A350-1000 6.9 t/hr, a 25.9% reduction.
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StTim
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Re: A350 Production And Delivery Thread Part 17

Mon May 15, 2017 9:08 am

Pretty impressive numbers and explains why the 350-1000 has effectively taken that part of the market from the 77W.

As someone else mentioned the engines are probably not production spec yet so maybe a little more to come.
 
ap305
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Re: A350 Production And Delivery Thread Part 17

Mon May 15, 2017 9:40 am

zeke wrote:
ap305 wrote:
Since the a351 is at 90% of its mtow in this particular case, I thought it would be fair to compare like for like....


It is more like 94.7% of the A350-1000 MTOW. The fuel used at that point was 33.25t, if you take 500 kg for taxi, the flight fuel would be 32.75t. Current mass 258.9 t, so TOW=GW+FU = 291.65t. 291.65/308=94.7%.

The TAS is 497 kts at FL350, a 77W taking off at the same percentage of MTOW would be at FL330 with a TAS of 488 kt. The current fuel flow is 6800 kg/hr, a 77W after 4 hrs taking off at the same percentage of MTOW would be burning 8644 kg/hr, that represents 21.3% less fuel flow. In terms of specific range, 77W 8644/488 = 17.7 kg/nm, A350-1000 6800/497= 13.7 kg/nm, that represents a 22.8% reduction.

After 4 hours of flight time a 77W taking off at the same percentage of MTOW would have burnt 41.9 t of fuel, the A350-1000 32.75 t, that also is a 21.8% reduction. However in that time the A350 would have flown about 2% further in distance.

The A350-1000 at that point had 7:22 of flight time left and estimated to burn 45.7 t (65.5-19.8), average burn for the 7:22, 45.7/7:22=6.2 t/hr for the remainder of the flight. Overall total trip fuel would have been 78.45t (45.7+32.75) for 11:22 (7:22+4:00) flight time. A 77W would burn 105.9 t over that flight time. That represents 27.5 t less fuel for the sector in percentage terms a 25.9% reduction.

I should add, anyone suggesting that a 77W will burn less than 9t hr average on a long haul flight is dreaming, that is the sort of fuel burn a 77W will have at around 75% of MTOW, on a 11:22 flight a 77W would burn on average 9.3 t/hr. the A350-1000 6.9 t/hr, a 25.9% reduction.


Much appreciated Zeke- The 8.1t avg figure for the 77w was given in a few threads here previously. I would hazard a guess that 25.9% better fuel burn means the a351 is already beating its nominals let alone the contractual guarantees? if so this is indeed impressive and I wont be surprised if even the likes of EK jump back on board.
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Re: A350 Production And Delivery Thread Part 17

Mon May 15, 2017 10:10 am

ap305 wrote:
Much appreciated Zeke- The 8.1t avg figure for the 77w was given in a few threads here previously. I would hazard a guess that 25.9% better fuel burn means the a351 is already beating its nominals let alone the contractual guarantees? if so this is indeed impressive and I wont be surprised if even the likes of EK jump back on board.


Looking at those numbers they still have work to be done. They were aiming for 25% reduction in block fuel per seat, the 77W nominal seat count when making that statement was 365 seats, and the A350-1000 350 seats. I work that out to be 290 kg/seat for the 77W and 224 kg/seat for the A350-1000, meaning only a 22.7% reduction. They still need to reduce the A350-1000 trip fuel by another 2.3 t to meet their original claim. 2.9% improvement required, how much of that will be obtained with production engines is anyones guess.
Human rights lawyers are "ambulance chasers of the very worst kind.'" - Sky News
 
StTim
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Re: A350 Production And Delivery Thread Part 17

Mon May 15, 2017 10:40 am

That was the target Zeke - but I wonder what the contractual performance figures are like. I suspect they must be at or very close to those.
 
ap305
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Re: A350 Production And Delivery Thread Part 17

Mon May 15, 2017 10:47 am

StTim wrote:
That was the target Zeke - but I wonder what the contractual performance figures are like. I suspect they must be at or very close to those.


The difference is usually said to be 5%...but I guess it changes airline to airline... However based on the numbers we see I think it's safe to say Airbus wont be paying any md-11 type penalties.
Racing, competing, is in my blood. It's part of me, it's part of my life; I've been doing it all my life. And it stands up before anything else- Ayrton Senna
 
hkcanadaexpat
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Re: A350 Production And Delivery Thread Part 17

Mon May 15, 2017 11:10 am

MSN 109 (Cathay #16) on its way back to TLS after painting in Hamburg #AIB03GF
 
hkcanadaexpat
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Re: A350 Production And Delivery Thread Part 17

Mon May 15, 2017 1:23 pm

MSN 107 (Singapore #14) at the delivery center this afternoon
 
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Re: A350 Production And Delivery Thread Part 17

Mon May 15, 2017 2:15 pm

hkcanadaexpat wrote:
MSN 109 (Cathay #16) on its way back to TLS after painting in Hamburg #AIB03GF


=>

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FWZGF 109 CPA by xfwspot, on Flickr
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Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos