747400sp
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Pilots And Beards?

Thu May 26, 2016 1:30 am

Hello


I have notice something, I do not remember ever seeing a pilot with a beard. When I was in the U. S. Navy, I remember that, they did not want us to have a beard, in case we had to don a oxygen mask, in a chemical attack, so I am thinking that airlines prefer pilot's, not to wear beards, in case they have to don oxygen masks, during a depressurization .
So, am I right, or are there pilots that wear beards?
 
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WesternDC6B
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RE: Pilots And Beards?

Thu May 26, 2016 1:39 am

In 1969 I flew on Caledonian from London to Los Angeles via Iceland. Our pilot was a very distinguished looking gentleman with a full red beard.
Be kind to animals: take a grizzly-bear to lunch today.
 
Viscount724
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RE: Pilots And Beards?

Thu May 26, 2016 1:47 am

I think that rule varies from country to country or airline to airline. I've been on flights where pilots had beards, including a KLM flight about 3 weeks ago. I remember him as he was saying goodbye to passengers on arrival.
 
SaabFA71
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RE: Pilots And Beards?

Thu May 26, 2016 2:10 am

I haven't seen pilots with full beards, but I did see some wearing neatly trimmed goatees from time to time. The airline I used to work for seemed to allow that as a few have worn goatees. I also saw a JetBlue pilot wearing a goatee already.
I used all of my sick days, so now I'm calling in dead.
 
Mainliner
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RE: Pilots And Beards?

Thu May 26, 2016 2:17 am

My company, along with most in the US, prohibit pilots from wearing beards because of the need for the quick-donning oxygen mask to seal around the face. Many of our oxygen masks even have a label on them warning that they may not seal over beards. I believe (but am not entirely sure) that JetBlue uses a different sort of mask, and I have seen their pilots in uniform with beards, although short and neatly cropped ones.
Every flight counts.
 
Max Q
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RE: Pilots And Beards?

Thu May 26, 2016 3:39 am

Generally not permitted at US Airlines but plenty of bearded Pilots around the rest of the world !
The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.
 
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longhauler
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RE: Pilots And Beards?

Thu May 26, 2016 3:48 am

New oxygen masks are very capable of maintaining a seal with regard to facial hair, so it is no longer uncommon to see airline pilots wearing beards.

Rules regarding facial hair are usually covered in the respective airline's Flight Operations Manual, and are bound no more in scientific fact than men wearing earings or women wearing excessive make-up. (Also not allowed in our FOM).

It has been explained to me, that it is about image. Apparently men sporting facial hair are less trustworthy then those without ...   . When i try to explain that some pretty respectible airlines allow their pilots to wear beards, it falls on deaf ears.

And when I hear, "We didn't do it in the Viscount days, why would we do it now?", I want to bang my head against a wall!
Just because I stopped arguing, doesn't mean I think you are right. It just means I gave up!
 
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rotating14
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RE: Pilots And Beards?

Thu May 26, 2016 3:51 am

Quoting Mainliner (Reply 4):

   The wax on the hair prevents a proper seal.
 
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longhauler
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RE: Pilots And Beards?

Thu May 26, 2016 4:01 am

Quoting rotating14 (Reply 7):
The wax on the hair prevents a proper seal.

You actually combined two urban legends.

One is that the wax on one's beard will ignite when exposed to 100% oxygen. (not true, then moustaches too would be banned, and they are not).

The other is that the facial hair itself will not allow a proper seal to be made.

This is more likely, but goes back to the "old style" quick donning oxygen mask, like those I saw when flying the B737-200. While firm, it never really gave a good seal even without facial hair. But ... the only time a seal is an issue is if smoke is a concern, and those masks were able to adjust to a positive pressure, always blowing out ... so a seal was not needed nor wanted.

The newer masks, starting around 1980 or so, have an inflatible strap that opens when donning, then grips hard on your face when uninflated and forms a proper seal on your face no matter what is on your face ... facial hair, moles, weak chin, you name it. But those masks also have eye goggles incorporated, so a hard seal is necessary. (The older ones didn't).
Just because I stopped arguing, doesn't mean I think you are right. It just means I gave up!
 
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jfklganyc
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RE: Pilots And Beards?

Thu May 26, 2016 4:04 am

Quoting rotating14 (Reply 7):

The wax on the hair prevents a proper seal.

Not true.

It is an airline visual appearance thing.

Up until 2 years ago, a major allowed it. Since banned.
 
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longhauler
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RE: Pilots And Beards?

Thu May 26, 2016 4:08 am

I am curious though ... what airlines do or do not allow beards?

I will start the ball rolling, Air Canada does not.
Just because I stopped arguing, doesn't mean I think you are right. It just means I gave up!
 
Mir
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RE: Pilots And Beards?

Thu May 26, 2016 4:18 am

Quoting longhauler (Reply 6):
women wearing excessive make-up.

This one actually makes some sense, as certain cosmetics can pose an ignition danger in the oxygen-rich environment inside the mask.

-Mir
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rugger
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RE: Pilots And Beards?

Thu May 26, 2016 6:09 am

I always heard it was the image thing. You are representing the company and the company wants their people to look clean and sharp at all times. They also want sideburns closely trimmed too.
 
SXDFC
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RE: Pilots And Beards?

Thu May 26, 2016 6:20 am

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 9):
Not true.

It is an airline visual appearance thing.

Up until 2 years ago, a major allowed it. Since banned.

So pilots cant use hair gel?
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
f4f3a
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RE: Pilots And Beards?

Thu May 26, 2016 6:39 am

Pilots do and can wear beards it's just airline rules.
In the Royal Navy there have been plenty of pilots who
Have worn beards and even flown fighter jets with no problem .
Google sharky ward . In the raf moustaches allowed but not beards.
In airlines it has always been the case that pilots can have a well trimmed
Beard. In fact certainly I think it's probably against your human rights to ban it.
 
azjubilee
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RE: Pilots And Beards?

Thu May 26, 2016 7:00 am

Hawaiian is one of the only US carriers that allow beards.
 
AAR90
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RE: Pilots And Beards?

Thu May 26, 2016 3:15 pm

Quoting longhauler (Reply 10):

I am curious though ... what airlines do or do not allow beards?

I will start the ball rolling, Air Canada does not.

At AA:
The face will be clean shaven, except that mustaches are permitted. Mustaches must be neatly trimmed, cannot extend beyond the corners of the mouth and are not to be of unusual nature or size. Beards or goatees are not permitted.

and...

Jumpseat occupants will be dressed in business casual attire or approved pilot uniform. Except for operating crew members, there is no restriction to facial hair, such as a beard, mustache, or goatee while an occupant of the flightdeck jump seat(s) in the event the oxygen mask must be used. However, it is recommended that the Captain advise jumpseat occupants of possible degradation of O2 mask performance in such cases.
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zeke
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RE: Pilots And Beards?

Thu May 26, 2016 4:06 pm

Quoting longhauler (Reply 10):
I am curious though ... what airlines do or do not allow beards?

I will start the ball rolling, Air Canada does not.

CX permits male or female pilots to have beards or mustaches.
Human rights lawyers are "ambulance chasers of the very worst kind.'" - Sky News
 
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Francoflier
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RE: Pilots And Beards?

Thu May 26, 2016 5:50 pm

Quoting zeke (Reply 17):
or female

  
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Rara
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RE: Pilots And Beards?

Thu May 26, 2016 5:55 pm

Plenty of LH pilots had beards in the 1970s and 80s. They generally came off in the 90s though.
Samson was a biblical tough guy, but his dad Samsonite was even more of a hard case.
 
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7BOEING7
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RE: Pilots And Beards?

Thu May 26, 2016 11:17 pm

Quoting 747400sp (Thread starter):
So, am I right, or are there pilots that wear beards?

Back in the 70's Admiral Zumalt allowed U S Navy personnel to again grow beards. As a P-3 driver I was allowed to wear a beard because we had full face oxygen masks -- the jet jockies weren't so lucky.
 
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Vio
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RE: Pilots And Beards?

Fri May 27, 2016 12:55 pm

Quoting longhauler (Reply 10):
I am curious though ... what airlines do or do not allow beards?

I will start the ball rolling, Air Canada does not.

Interesting. I did not know that.

On a different note, where I work, pilots can an do have beards, but it's not advisable. Flying Air Ambulance we sometimes have to "mask up" due to risk of disease. Having a beard will reduce the effectiveness of the protective equipment.
Superior decisions reduce the need for superior skills.
 
diverted
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RE: Pilots And Beards?

Fri May 27, 2016 1:26 pm

Quoting longhauler (Reply 8):
The other is that the facial hair itself will not allow a proper seal to be made.

On that note, from what I've read in regards to shaving, most men weren't clean shaven until WWI. The US government paid for some 450,000 razors for soldiers, so that their gas masks would seal tightly. Perhaps someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't Hitler's trademark mustache trimmed the way it was for the same reason?
 
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Starlionblue
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RE: Pilots And Beards?

Fri May 27, 2016 11:09 pm

Quoting longhauler (Reply 10):

I am curious though ... what airlines do or do not allow beards?

I will start the ball rolling, Air Canada does not.

Based on my own observations, at most airlines in the Middle East it is allowed 

Our ops manual does have a note about beards leading to degradation of efficiency of the oxygen mask and thus beards are not recommended. There's further verbiage about ensuring the beard is of such shape that the seal can be good.

Quoting zeke (Reply 17):

Quoting longhauler (Reply 10):
I am curious though ... what airlines do or do not allow beards?

I will start the ball rolling, Air Canada does not.

CX permits male or female pilots to have beards or mustaches.

Gotta love equality. 

[Edited 2016-05-27 16:42:55]
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
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zeke
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RE: Pilots And Beards?

Sat May 28, 2016 2:11 am

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 23):

Seems to be more fashinable these days to be clean shaven rather than a landing strip or all natural.
Human rights lawyers are "ambulance chasers of the very worst kind.'" - Sky News
 
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Starlionblue
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RE: Pilots And Beards?

Sat May 28, 2016 2:18 am

Quoting zeke (Reply 24):

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 23):

Seems to be more fashinable these days to be clean shaven rather than a landing strip or all natural.

Aaaaand are we still talking about oxygen masks?  
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
Max Q
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RE: Pilots And Beards?

Sat May 28, 2016 2:50 am

Quoting diverted (Reply 22):
Perhaps someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't Hitler's trademark mustache trimmed the way it was for the same reason?

I have no doubt the little one balled corporal had nothing but that in mind !!!!!!
The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.
 
Whiteguy
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RE: Pilots And Beards?

Sat May 28, 2016 3:35 am

Quoting longhauler (Reply 10):

I am curious though ... what airlines do or do not allow beards?

I will start the ball rolling, Air Canada does not.


Beards and goatees are allowed at WS.....

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