Search found 186 matches

by DouglasDC10
Wed Sep 09, 2020 11:14 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Status of first airframes of modern airliners to enter service?
Replies: 3
Views: 969

Re: Status of first airframes of modern airliners to enter service?

Not really a very modern airliner, but the first DC-10 to enter commercial service (N103AA, the fifth DC-10 to be built) was scrapped as most early former American Airlines frames. The oldest surviving DC-10s are N220AU, the second DC-10 off the line which was used as a test airframe by MDD and late...

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by DouglasDC10
Sat Jun 06, 2020 9:09 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Alitalia's DC10s
Replies: 29
Views: 5721

Re: Alitalia's DC10s

I seem to remember reading that the decision to remove them from the fleet was partly a reaction to the several issues and fatal crashes suffered by the DC-10 elsewhere in the world, so the new batch of 747s with CF6s ordered around 1979 effectively replaced both the DC-10s and the five original PW...

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by DouglasDC10
Wed Mar 11, 2020 8:20 am
Forum: Travel, Polls & Preferences
Topic: DC-10-30ER Production Numbers
Replies: 21
Views: 3186

Re: DC-10-30ER Production Numbers

I can actually find only three factory-delivered DC-10-30ER, the three airframes for Thai ordered in the mid-1980s. These aircraft went to Northwest and Omni later on. Other than that, I count five conversions for CP/Canadian and one for Finnair. If you can find more, please let me know.

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by DouglasDC10
Wed Mar 04, 2020 10:04 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Flybe News and Discussion Thread Update: Flybe ceases flying, enters administration
Replies: 834
Views: 124971

Re: Flybe News and Discussion Thread

Quick question - if a ticket was bought and told it was an Air France flight operated by Flybe by a codeshare what happens. WIll Air France just move onto a new flight? It sounds like you have bought an Air France ticket and if that's the case, it is Air France's responsibility to put you on a new ...

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by DouglasDC10
Tue Mar 03, 2020 10:43 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Air France planes' names
Replies: 71
Views: 13326

Re: Air France planes' names

I think BA should follow suit BA's Planes had names until the Utopia C/S was introduced (so during the Negus and Landor periods), with the exception of Concorde, which were just known as Alpha Alpha, Alpha Bravo etc. IIRC, 747s were named after UK cities, while 767s were named after non-UK cities. ...

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by DouglasDC10
Thu Feb 06, 2020 10:16 pm
Forum: Travel, Polls & Preferences
Topic: Why does everyone assume that the A380 ending production means the fleet will stop flying?
Replies: 36
Views: 3255

Re: Why does everyone assume that the A380 ending production means the fleet will stop flying?

As far as I can see it, there are only very few people thinking that the fleet will stop flying after the end of production. The problem with the A380 however is the fact that there is practically no second hand market. From the mentioned aircraft types, the least popular on the second hand market w...

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by DouglasDC10
Wed Feb 05, 2020 5:47 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Wizz Air Withdrawing from FRA?
Replies: 29
Views: 3809

Re: Wizz Air Withdrawing from FRA?

Newsportal airliners.de has confirmed it (German): https://www.airliners.de/wizz-air-rueckzug-frankfurter-flughafen/53646 According to them, it's the expiry of the dicount offered to new airlines which will take place in April. I just hope that they resume some of the routes from HHN. For SOF, there...

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by DouglasDC10
Thu Jan 30, 2020 10:17 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Iran Air Diverted at RMI
Replies: 11
Views: 3673

Re: Iran Air Diverted at RMI

It's mainly fuelling, but they also seem to change crews over there as I have seen crew bag units for RMI while all other load was bound for IKA. Usually, they fly with a double crew to avoid such things in Europe which meant that they usually had no crew bags in the hold at all.

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by DouglasDC10
Sat Nov 30, 2019 10:33 am
Forum: Travel, Polls & Preferences
Topic: Why Didn't Swissair and Sabena order The 747-400?
Replies: 34
Views: 5134

Re: Why Didn't Swissair and Sabena order The 747-400?

Lack of money, smaller demand from BRU. Sabena was mainly aimed at Africa and the USA, the 744's range wasn't needed. Within a couple years of the end Sabena was flying 747-(347s?), MD-11s, 342s, 343s, 332s, and 333s. Sabena's Boeing customer code was 29, so they were 747-329s (47 was Western Air L...

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by DouglasDC10
Wed Nov 13, 2019 7:57 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Norwegian in Germany
Replies: 16
Views: 2595

Re: Norwegian in Germany

Norwegian and Condor are still busy sorting out their own things and Norwegian is rather reducing German routes which are not connected to their hubs in Scandinavia. As seahawk mentioned, they have often unattractive times but also unattractive prices. Price-wise not only Ryanair and Easyjet but als...

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by DouglasDC10
Sun Nov 03, 2019 7:11 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Historial Routes (Airliners/Flight Numbers)
Replies: 10
Views: 1322

Re: Historial Routes (Airliners/Flight Numbers)

2010 - KUL STN - XAX - ? - A333? (I can vaguely recall an all-blacks [or similar] black livery for the aircraft) 2010 - STN KUL - XAX - ? - A333? KUL-STN is D7 2008 / STN-KUL is D7 2009, both most probably an A343. I was on two of those flights in early 2010 as well. Air Asia X used their pair of A...

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by DouglasDC10
Thu Oct 31, 2019 7:20 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Ukraine Int'l cuts: Axe PEK, AMM, RIX; reduce BKK & TLV
Replies: 52
Views: 11702

Re: Ukraine Int'l cuts: Axe PEK, AMM, RIX; reduce BKK & TLV

Here is a complete list of all the changes, some are pretty drastic like Vienna since they have a strong connection to Austrian Airlines. I guess with reduced flexibility, unimpressive onboard experience, all they will be left with are cheap fares. Not very promising in the long run. Kyiv Borispil ...

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by DouglasDC10
Thu Oct 17, 2019 4:03 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: History behind idiosyncratic IATA airline shortcodes
Replies: 171
Views: 29094

Re: History behind idiosyncratic IATA airline shortcodes

FSDan wrote:
I assume all the airlines with numbered codes were just picking up available pairs of characters... B6, 3M, G4, Y4, 3U, etc.


Except for airlines like 4U (Germanwings) and U2 (Easyjet)...

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by DouglasDC10
Mon Sep 30, 2019 9:37 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Crossair/Swiss E170s?
Replies: 2
Views: 1097

Re: Crossair/Swiss E170s?

As far as I can remember, the order was placed by the original Crossair in the late 1990s and the airline was supposed to be the first operator. In between however came 9/11 and the collapse of the Swissair Group. Crossair was one of the few remaining financially healthy parts and became the base fo...

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by DouglasDC10
Thu Aug 01, 2019 5:34 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Embraer as Boeing 8170
Replies: 9
Views: 3798

Re: Embraer as Boeing 8170

The DC10 had two crashes from faulty cargo door design, but it lived on without a re-brand. Off topic, but only one DC-10 crash was attributed to the cargo door locking system and that was the Turkish Airlines flight which crashed after takoff from Paris in 1974. Years earlier, an American Airlines...

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by DouglasDC10
Sun Sep 09, 2018 8:14 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: What exactly did airberlin do wrong?
Replies: 30
Views: 6527

Re: What exactly did airberlin do wrong?

Their demise is the short haul fleet. It seems everyone already forgotten the very unreasonable lease of their B737 from Germania (or another company has a similar name). Whomever signed the lease should be thoroughly investigated. I believe their long haul to RSW and Florida performed strongly. Th...

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by DouglasDC10
Tue May 22, 2018 9:29 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Which aircraft is this?
Replies: 7
Views: 1677

Re: Which aircraft is this?

As far as I know, this tail was never part of a plane but was a kind of gift from Airbus to Lufthansa for their cooperation in all the Airbus projects. The tail has been there since the late 1990s or early 2000s when both D-AIAI and D-AIAL were still flying for LH.

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by DouglasDC10
Mon May 14, 2018 9:16 am
Forum: Travel, Polls & Preferences
Topic: Aircraft registrations' connections to airport codes
Replies: 29
Views: 2334

Re: Aircraft registrations' connections to airport codes

Augsburg Airways' fleet had German airport codes in many of their Dash 8-100/200/300's registrations (D-BMUC, D-BHAM, D-BFRA, D-BDUS, D-BTHF, D-BLEJ; D-BDTM, D-BHOQ, D-BPAD, D-BAGB). Bulgaria Air's E-190 fleet also shows the first three letters of Bulgarian cities which in case of Sofia and Varna ar...

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by DouglasDC10
Tue Jan 30, 2018 6:52 am
Forum: Travel, Polls & Preferences
Topic: LHR, CDG, AMS, FRA: Which is the best for connections?
Replies: 87
Views: 7379

Re: LHR, CDG, AMS, FRA: Which is the best for connections?

AMS is by far the easiest of the four mentioned, MUC is very close although I still prefer AMS over it. AMS has everything within one building and more facilities to offer in order to kill your time. FRA can be a pain in the ass if you have to connect between a flight in Terminal 1 and a flight in T...

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by DouglasDC10
Tue Dec 05, 2017 7:17 pm
Forum: Travel, Polls & Preferences
Topic: Any Airports With Both McDonalds and Burger King?
Replies: 43
Views: 7708

Re: Any Airports With Both McDonalds and Burger King?

Bhoy wrote:
ZRH has a McDonalds landside and a Burger King airside.


Same situation in FRA: One McDonald's landside in each terminal as well as a Burger King airside in Terminal 2.

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by DouglasDC10
Tue Oct 31, 2017 7:25 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Question about Hapag Lloyd airline operations
Replies: 14
Views: 3063

Re: Hapag Lloyd

Thanks ^ Was Hapag Lloyd, ever big like Ibera, SAS, Alitalia, BA? No, they were a mid-sized holiday charter airline with a focus on Mediterranean and Canary Island routes. In the 1990s, they also had some routes to the Caribbean resorts which they flew with A310s. Later, the A310s were used on thei...

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by DouglasDC10
Sun Sep 03, 2017 4:54 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Finnair and Swiss - why MD-11 and not A340-300?
Replies: 19
Views: 7942

Re: Finnair and Swiss - why MD-11 and not A340-300?

MDD collected quite a bunch of orders from customers who sooner or later went on to replace the MD-11 with A340-300 and 777-200ER. This include Alitalia, Delta, American, JAL, Thai and China Airlines. One of the reasons was that the MD-11 underperformed (a reason why Singapore Airlines even switched...

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by DouglasDC10
Thu Aug 17, 2017 7:08 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Will the A320-200 CEO become the next DC-3?
Replies: 50
Views: 9586

Re: Will the A320-200 CEO become the next DC-3?

The A320 has earned its place in aviation history as the plane which made Airbus one of the two largest manufacturers. Also, it was a very modern aircraft for its time and many innovations were introduced with it. However, I would not say that longevity is one of the main characteristics of the A320...

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by DouglasDC10
Sun Jun 25, 2017 9:05 pm
Forum: Travel, Polls & Preferences
Topic: Your longest flight
Replies: 147
Views: 9722

Re: Your longest flight

I can't believe that noone has listed the legendary D7 2008/2009 (STN-KUL-STN). :)

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by DouglasDC10
Tue Mar 28, 2017 2:23 pm
Forum: Travel, Polls & Preferences
Topic: Ever fly on the same plane twice?
Replies: 138
Views: 10440

Re: Ever fly on the same plane twice?

4x Ryanair EI-DHF and 3x on Ryanair EI-DAI, EI-DCK, EI-DLW and EI-DPZ. I have 27 aircraft I have flown twice on, of which 19 are also Ryanair. The other aircraft are from Air Aruba (P4-MDD), Air Asia X (9M-XAB), Easyjet, Easyjet Switzerland, Germanwings and KLM Cityhopper.

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by DouglasDC10
Sun Feb 05, 2017 10:23 pm
Forum: Travel, Polls & Preferences
Topic: Most underrated airline?
Replies: 80
Views: 11279

Re: Most underrated airline?

Ryanair. Cheap, get you from A to B. No pomp. No ceremony. Fabulous safety record. Amazing rout choice and frequency. OK legroom and onboard prices. Can't agree more. When travelling within Europe, I don't see any reason to choose the likes of LH or KL which justifies the price difference they have...

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by DouglasDC10
Sun Jan 29, 2017 11:11 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Syrian Air to acquire A340-300
Replies: 110
Views: 27263

Re: Syrian Air to acquire A340-300

Caracas is not in Latin America - its in South America Latin America includes all Spanish and Portuguese speaking countries in the Americas which means all countries on the American mainland with exception of Canada, USA, Belize, Guyana and Suriname as well as some countries on Caribbean islands. S...

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by DouglasDC10
Fri Jul 08, 2016 3:30 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Old aircraft still operating today and with whom?
Replies: 36
Views: 11332

Re: Old aircraft still operating today and with whom?

Unfortunately no. There are not even MD-11 in passenger service. Biman Bangladesh (DC-10) and KLM (MD-11) were the last pax operators and both retired the last aircraft in 2014. I am not sure whwo the last L-1011 operator was of if there are still any operating L-1011 at all beside the Royal Air For...

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by DouglasDC10
Tue Jul 05, 2016 10:15 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Old aircraft still operating today and with whom?
Replies: 36
Views: 11332

Re: Old aircraft still operating today and with whom?

There are still a handful of active DC-9s in Venezuela with Aeropostal and LASER, USAJet and Aeronaves TSM/DHL are others coming into my mind. Tiara Air (Aruba) has still an active Short 360, AFAIK. And there should be the one or other TU-134 in Russia or former Soviet countries, though maybe only i...

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by DouglasDC10
Sat Jun 18, 2016 6:18 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Why was the MD80 series popular?
Replies: 29
Views: 10225

Re: Why was the MD80 series popular?

Can't say about the 727-100, but for the 727-200, which the MD-80 had similar seat size, I think the only MD-80s that replaced the 727-200 were TWA's late build order. I am speaking of the USA only. Alaska and PSA are also some good examples for US carriers replacing the 727-200 with MD-80. As othe...

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by DouglasDC10
Mon May 23, 2016 4:44 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Vietjet Orders 100 Boeing 737 MAX 200
Replies: 142
Views: 26868

RE: Vietjet Orders 100 Boeing 737 MAX 200

The MAX 200 is a MAX 8 certified for 200 passengers which was originally designed for Ryanair.

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by DouglasDC10
Thu May 19, 2016 10:05 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Ryanair And Luxembourg
Replies: 30
Views: 5824

RE: Ryanair And Luxembourg

LUX would have little inpact or no inpact at all on <acronym title="Frankfurt - Hahn (HHN / EDFH), Germany">HHN</acronym> operations as <acronym title="Frankfurt - Hahn (HHN / EDFH), Germany">HHN</acronym> is the only airport in Ryanair's network to cover the Rhein-Main area with four sizeable citie...

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by DouglasDC10
Fri Apr 15, 2016 2:50 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Ryanair CEO: Might Retire!
Replies: 42
Views: 7160

RE: Ryanair CEO: Might Retire!

<table border="0" align="CENTER" width="95%" class="quote"><tr><td><font size="2" face="ARIAL, Helvetica, Geneva" color="#9A9DA0">Quoting <a href="/profile/AirPacific747" class="quote" target="_blank">AirPacific747</a> (<a href="#30" class="quote">Reply 30</a>):<br/><i>But he's also created a big me...

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by DouglasDC10
Mon Apr 11, 2016 7:06 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Hangar Queens
Replies: 18
Views: 6768

RE: Hangar Queens

In the mid-2000s, Hamburg International's D-AHIG (their only 737-300) and Air Berlin's D-ABAK ("Alpha Kacke") had not the best reputation in their respective fleets.

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by DouglasDC10
Tue Mar 22, 2016 11:31 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Wizzair Leaves LBC - Airport's Future Uncertain
Replies: 0
Views: 1358

Wizzair Leaves LBC - Airport's Future Uncertain

It looks bad for <acronym title="Lubeck - Blankensee (LBC / EDHL), Germany">LBC</acronym>. Wizzair is moving three of its six routes from <acronym title="Lubeck - Blankensee (LBC / EDHL), Germany">LBC</acronym> to <acronym title="Hamburg (- Fuhlsbuttel) (HAM / EDDH), Germany">HAM</acronym> at the be...

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by DouglasDC10
Sun Nov 29, 2015 7:10 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Concorde G-BOAB
Replies: 20
Views: 12658

RE: Concorde G-BOAB

<table border="0" align="CENTER" width="95%" class="quote"><tr><td><font size="2" face="ARIAL, Helvetica, Geneva" color="#9A9DA0">Quoting <a href="/profile/skipness1E" class="quote" target="_blank">skipness1E</a> (<a href="#6" class="quote">Reply 6</a>):<br/><i>You know all the <acronym title="Briti...

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by DouglasDC10
Tue Sep 01, 2015 7:05 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Logo On Ryanair Tail
Replies: 41
Views: 28896

Logo On Ryanair Tail

<table border="0" align="CENTER" width="95%" class="quote"><tr><td><font size="2" face="ARIAL, Helvetica, Geneva" color="#9A9DA0">Quoting <a href="/profile/Wingtips56" class="quote" target="_blank">Wingtips56</a> (<a href="#4" class="quote">Reply 4</a>):<br/><i>..And Ryanair started out with the BAC...

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by DouglasDC10
Tue May 05, 2015 7:18 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: End Of The Line For The Smallest 737?
Replies: 38
Views: 14636

RE: End Of The Line For The Smallest 737?

<table border="0" align="CENTER" width="95%" class="quote"><tr><td><font size="2" face="ARIAL, Helvetica, Geneva" color="#9A9DA0">Quoting <a href="/profile/lightsaber" class="quote" target="_blank">lightsaber</a> (<a href="#36" class="quote">Reply 36</a>):<br/><i>Our of curiosity, have *any* 736 eve...

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by DouglasDC10
Sun Mar 29, 2015 11:30 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: If MD/ Boeing Merger Never Happened?
Replies: 34
Views: 9365

RE: If MD/ Boeing Merger Never Happened?

<table border="0" align="CENTER" width="95%" class="quote"><tr><td><font size="2" face="ARIAL, Helvetica, Geneva" color="#9A9DA0">Quoting <a href="/profile/SEPilot" class="quote" target="_blank">SEPilot</a> (<a href="#29" class="quote">Reply 29</a>):<br/><i>Douglas had proven himself to be a much be...

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by DouglasDC10
Sun Mar 29, 2015 10:36 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: If MD/ Boeing Merger Never Happened?
Replies: 34
Views: 9365

RE: If MD/ Boeing Merger Never Happened?

MDD messed it up in the 1970s and 80s already when they did not go ahead with further developments on their product line. The twinjet DC-10 which was under consideration could have seriously hurt the sales of the A300/310 and 767. A DC-10-60 series in which United and Air New Zealand were seriously ...

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by DouglasDC10
Sat Jan 03, 2015 9:52 pm
Forum: Travel, Polls & Preferences
Topic: Which Plane Would You Like To See Back In A Fleet
Replies: 71
Views: 9712

RE: Which Plane Would You Like To See Back In A Fl

Any DC-10 of course - and VIASA's DC-8s in memory of the good old days of Venezuelan avation!

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by DouglasDC10
Tue Dec 30, 2014 1:47 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Why Did DL Order The L1011?
Replies: 94
Views: 18245

RE: Why Did DL Order The L1011?

Loyal customers like Delta and Eastern were intially inclined to order the DC-10. Unfortunately, McDonnell-Douglas marketing strategy was inspired by the McDonnell - part of the company which was more familiar in selling military aircraft. The result was a take it or leave it - attitude which gave L...

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by DouglasDC10
Wed May 21, 2014 7:12 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Towards A Nicer Ryanair
Replies: 25
Views: 10239

RE: Towards A Nicer Ryanair

Am I the only one who misses the "old" Ryanair? I prefer free seating over assigned one, do not care about onboard service, like to see a good choice of flights from places like Lübeck and just want an on-time flight for a low fare. For people wanting a nice Ryanair with assigned seating, a little m...

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by DouglasDC10
Sat Apr 19, 2014 9:58 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Tristar Being A Twinstar
Replies: 8
Views: 8295

RE: Tristar Being A Twinstar

McDonnell-Douglas also had a DC-10 twin study, but it failed to lack attraction. And Douglas's engine suppliers were not in crisis. The reason is rather found in the lack of need for twin widebodies. Remember that Eastern only became an A300 customer as Airbus was despereately seeking an American cu...

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by DouglasDC10
Fri Feb 21, 2014 8:16 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: No Seattle Museum For Biman's Last DC-10
Replies: 50
Views: 17189

RE: No Seattle Museum For Biman's Last DC-10

<table border="0" align="CENTER" width="95%" class="quote"><tr><td><font size="2" face="ARIAL, Helvetica, Geneva" color="#9A9DA0">Quoting <a href="/profile/Stitch" class="quote" target="_blank">Stitch</a> (<a href="#2" class="quote">Reply 2</a>):<br/><i>I would think the Museum of Flight would want ...

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by DouglasDC10
Thu Feb 20, 2014 11:45 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Last International DC-10 Flight
Replies: 9
Views: 4088

RE: Last International DC-10 Flight

<table border="0" align="CENTER" width="95%" class="quote"><tr><td><font size="2" face="ARIAL, Helvetica, Geneva" color="#9A9DA0">Quoting <a href="/profile/DocLightning" class="quote" target="_blank">DocLightning</a> (<a href="#5" class="quote">Reply 5</a>):<br/><i>So they won't be flying passengers...

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by DouglasDC10
Sun Jan 12, 2014 1:08 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: IATA: USD $3.3bil Cash Trapped In Venezuela
Replies: 71
Views: 15033

RE: IATA: USD $3.3bil Cash Trapped In Venezuela

<table border="0" align="CENTER" width="95%" class="quote"><tr><td><font size="2" face="ARIAL, Helvetica, Geneva" color="#9A9DA0">Quoting <a href="/profile/Coal" class="quote" target="_blank">Coal</a> (<a href="#14" class="quote">Reply 14</a>):<br/><i>"Brazil is becoming Argentina. Argentina is beco...

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by DouglasDC10
Thu Oct 10, 2013 11:17 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Solyom In Trouble Before First Flight?
Replies: 12
Views: 4916

Solyom In Trouble Before First Flight?

According to this article, Solyom seems to be in financial trouble even before it started operations. The article is unfortunately in Hungarian only - if anyone has an English link or more information, please feel free to share. <a href="http://www.atv.hu/belfold/20131010-solyom-airways-nincs-befekt...

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by DouglasDC10
Tue Mar 05, 2013 11:28 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: 727 & DC10 Question
Replies: 46
Views: 9477

RE: 727 & DC10 Question

<table border="0" align="CENTER" width="95%" class="quote"><tr><td><font size="2" face="ARIAL, Helvetica, Geneva" color="#9A9DA0">Quoting <a href="/profile/TWA772LR" class="quote" target="_blank">TWA772LR</a> (<a href="#3" class="quote">Reply 3</a>):<br/><i>I disagree. I think the DC-10 would've out...

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by DouglasDC10
Tue Jan 22, 2013 7:51 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Question About CO's DC-10s
Replies: 34
Views: 5730

RE: Question About CO's DC-10s

In the mid-1990s, the DC-10-10s flew under the name of Continental Micronesia and were mainly used on the South Pacific and Hawaii routes. The -30s were the only long-range aircraft from the time the small 747-100 fleet was phased out until the introduction of the 767s and 777s (the use of 757s on E...

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