Search found 3856 matches

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • 78
by OldAeroGuy
Fri Jul 19, 2019 6:29 pm
Forum: Technical/Operations
Topic: Did/Does the 779X need a new wing? and does it need to be so big?
Replies: 21
Views: 3111

Re: Did/Does the 779X need a new wing? and does it need to be so big?

The elephant in the room is Takeoff performance. If the fuel use is effectively identical between the 779X and 77W with GE9x then the Empty weight difference of ~13t can remain. Would the [email protected] 337T be able to cope with 105klb engines?, when does it need the full 115klb? could the GE9X produce this?...

Jump to post
by OldAeroGuy
Tue Jul 16, 2019 2:42 pm
Forum: Technical/Operations
Topic: RAT Deployment and ETOPS
Replies: 28
Views: 2231

Re: RAT Deployment and ETOPS

Plus, if the RAT is deployed and not needed, the RAT blades will reduce pitch to control RPM. RAT drag under this condition will be considerably less than if hydraulic or electrical power was being produced. True that the blades will feather, but only to a point. There will still be significant dra...

Jump to post
by OldAeroGuy
Sun Jul 14, 2019 4:13 pm
Forum: Technical/Operations
Topic: RAT Deployment and ETOPS
Replies: 28
Views: 2231

Re: RAT Deployment and ETOPS

Plus, if the RAT is deployed and not needed, the RAT blades will reduce pitch to control RPM. RAT drag under this condition will be considerably less than if hydraulic or electrical power was being produced.

Jump to post
by OldAeroGuy
Sat Jul 13, 2019 3:08 pm
Forum: Technical/Operations
Topic: RAT Deployment and ETOPS
Replies: 28
Views: 2231

Re: RAT Deployment and ETOPS

The RAT on the 757/767 deploys when both engines fail, to provide hydraulic power to the flight controls. The HMG (Hydraulic Motor Generator) or HDG (Hydraulic Driver Generator) provides electrical power with loss of both AC buses. They do not work at the same time. With loss of both engines you ha...

Jump to post
by OldAeroGuy
Sun Jul 07, 2019 3:07 pm
Forum: Technical/Operations
Topic: A340 dumps fuel touching down while on runway..
Replies: 21
Views: 4275

Re: A340 dumps fuel touching down while on runway..

No doubt this is an AB airplane dumping fuel while on the ground.

Jump to post
by OldAeroGuy
Sun Jul 07, 2019 3:01 am
Forum: Technical/Operations
Topic: A340 dumps fuel touching down while on runway..
Replies: 21
Views: 4275

Re: A340 dumps fuel touching down while on runway..

Max Q wrote:
That picture definitely shows fuel coming out of one of the dump nozzles


Except the picture appears to be a 757. The 757 does not have fuel jettison (ie dump) nozzles.

Jump to post
by OldAeroGuy
Sun Jun 30, 2019 11:37 pm
Forum: Technical/Operations
Topic: Wind tunnel drag test
Replies: 16
Views: 2223

Re: Wind tunnel drag test

The 2-D model has an L/D ratio of 2.46 The 3-D has an L/D of 2.28 So the 2-D model is slightly more efficient. However, with AoA = 15 deg, if this isn't a high lift system test, I suspect both wings are stalled so the L/D values are irrelevant. The low L/D levels are consistent with stalled wings. A...

Jump to post
by OldAeroGuy
Sun Jun 30, 2019 8:03 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Boeing 737MAX Grounded Worldwide Q3 2019
Replies: 844
Views: 121485

Re: Boeing 737MAX Grounded Worldwide Q3 2019

From the Q2 Thread: 7BOEING7 Quote: "That's right "facts". Mullaly was behind all the outsourcing of 787 -- we all thought it was an accident looking for a place to happen. He took it to the Board which did not include McNerney at the time and the 787 was born." One must remember...

Jump to post
by OldAeroGuy
Thu Jun 27, 2019 11:05 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Boeing 737MAX Grounded Worldwide Q2 2019
Replies: 3768
Views: 383174

Re: Boeing 737MAX Grounded Worldwide Q2 2019

Just imagine for a moment spending a few seconds finding the QRH which then tells you to repond within 3 seconds. No it doesnt, nor does the EID because it is ludicrous. Ray No need to find the QRH as the response to a Stab Trim Runaway is a memory item, as stated many times on this thread.. I don'...

Jump to post
by OldAeroGuy
Thu Jun 27, 2019 10:49 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Boeing 737MAX Grounded Worldwide Q2 2019
Replies: 3768
Views: 383174

Re: Boeing 737MAX Grounded Worldwide Q2 2019

The way I read this section is that it is defining the power and capability that a trim system must have. To my reading, it's determining how much capability the system needs to have so that the pilot can achieve a fast enough response from the system. In other words, the 3 seconds is defining what...

Jump to post
by OldAeroGuy
Thu Jun 27, 2019 7:52 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Boeing 737MAX Grounded Worldwide Q2 2019
Replies: 3768
Views: 383174

Re: Boeing 737MAX Grounded Worldwide Q2 2019

But what exactly are the symptoms to be determined within 3 seconds? Sts is another source of trim movement without direct pilot command, and it happens often. So how to ensure response to actual runaway without many false alarms? As Mentor Pilot says in his video, STS is making control forces easi...

Jump to post
by OldAeroGuy
Thu Jun 27, 2019 7:45 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Boeing 737MAX Grounded Worldwide Q2 2019
Replies: 3768
Views: 383174

Re: Boeing 737MAX Grounded Worldwide Q2 2019

Just imagine for a moment spending a few seconds finding the QRH which then tells you to repond within 3 seconds. No it doesnt, nor does the EID because it is ludicrous. Ray No need to find the QRH as the response to a Stab Trim Runaway is a memory item, as stated many times on this thread.. Except...

Jump to post
by OldAeroGuy
Thu Jun 27, 2019 7:20 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Boeing 737MAX Grounded Worldwide Q2 2019
Replies: 3768
Views: 383174

Re: Boeing 737MAX Grounded Worldwide Q2 2019

While reading technical documents is not my forté, I also did not find where this document suggests anything about requiring a 3-second reaction time from pilots. As far as I can tell, the 3-second references in this Part 25 document are merely about defining how tests ought to be conducted. Search...

Jump to post
by OldAeroGuy
Thu Jun 27, 2019 6:45 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Boeing 737MAX Grounded Worldwide Q2 2019
Replies: 3768
Views: 383174

Re: Boeing 737MAX Grounded Worldwide Q2 2019

Just imagine for a moment spending a few seconds finding the QRH which then tells you to repond within 3 seconds. No it doesnt, nor does the EID because it is ludicrous. Ray No need to find the QRH as the response to a Stab Trim Runaway is a memory item, as stated many times on this thread.. Just a...

Jump to post
by OldAeroGuy
Thu Jun 27, 2019 6:13 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Boeing 737MAX Grounded Worldwide Q2 2019
Replies: 3768
Views: 383174

Re: Boeing 737MAX Grounded Worldwide Q2 2019

XRAYretired wrote:
Just imagine for a moment spending a few seconds finding the QRH which then tells you to repond within 3 seconds. No it doesnt, nor does the EID because it is ludicrous.

Ray


No need to find the QRH as the response to a Stab Trim Runaway is a memory item, as stated many times on this thread..

Jump to post
by OldAeroGuy
Thu Jun 27, 2019 6:07 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Boeing 737MAX Grounded Worldwide Q2 2019
Replies: 3768
Views: 383174

Re: Boeing 737MAX Grounded Worldwide Q2 2019

As I read it, the 3 seconds is about control response to an upset, e.g. pulling the stick back and getting a relevant response when the nose drops unexpectedly, within 3 seconds. It has nothing to do or say about identifying an airframe or system cause of the upset in the first place or doing somet...

Jump to post
by OldAeroGuy
Thu Jun 27, 2019 5:16 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Boeing 737MAX Grounded Worldwide Q2 2019
Replies: 3768
Views: 383174

Re: Boeing 737MAX Grounded Worldwide Q2 2019

I thought Boeing were going back to the original idea of sanity testing MCAS inputs, I don't see how Boeing can hope to pass certification standards if MCAS gets shut off with a disagree of 5.5 degrees and has less authority. Why was is it there in the first place if it can just be disregarded so e...

Jump to post
by OldAeroGuy
Thu Jun 27, 2019 5:05 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Boeing 737MAX Grounded Worldwide Q2 2019
Replies: 3768
Views: 383174

Re: Boeing 737MAX Grounded Worldwide Q2 2019

3 seconds might be how long it takes you to say "what the hell" when suddenly the plane does something you do not expect, let alone figure out which systems is the cause, and then turn it off. Are you saying the certification agencies need to change their Part 25 flight test guidance mate...

Jump to post
by OldAeroGuy
Thu Jun 27, 2019 4:59 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Boeing 737MAX Grounded Worldwide Q2 2019
Replies: 3768
Views: 383174

Re: Boeing 737MAX Grounded Worldwide Q2 2019

So one sensor reads 57 degrees and the other 60, we are all good here right? lets jack on some MCAS!! Nah. You have to make more checks. I believe MCASv2.0 handles this by having only one cycle per event. If your case was present, MCASv2.0 would cycle once only as both vanes would be above the MCAS...

Jump to post
by OldAeroGuy
Thu Jun 27, 2019 3:40 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Boeing 737MAX Grounded Worldwide Q2 2019
Replies: 3768
Views: 383174

Re: Boeing 737MAX Grounded Worldwide Q2 2019

There was a report last week that Boeing safety analysis for Max relied on pilots being able to deal with MCAS within 3 seconds Which at the time seemed incredibly ambitious and optimistic and risky to me for them to expect and plan for that? Your post above is written in a way that kind of suggest...

Jump to post
by OldAeroGuy
Sun Jun 23, 2019 1:13 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Boeing 777X Testing Thread - 2019
Replies: 498
Views: 137626

Re: Boeing 777X Testing Thread - 2019

These inlets are enabled by a clever aerodynamic analysis that enables the engines to be closer to the wing (vertical separation is reduced). There is a nacelle/wing interaction that can be good or really bad. Boeing/GE have figured out how to make it always good. Lightsaber This "clever aerod...

Jump to post
by OldAeroGuy
Sat Jun 15, 2019 3:09 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Boeing 777X Testing Thread - 2019
Replies: 498
Views: 137626

Re: Boeing 777X Testing Thread - 2019

Bricktop wrote:
Revelation wrote:
I wonder if that is a FAA-approved rubber band on the gold throttle lever? :biggrin:

Maybe I will start a thread on grandfathering of rubber bands. :white:


I think this is the same rubber band I saw being used during 737-200 flight testing in 1967.

Jump to post
by OldAeroGuy
Wed Jun 12, 2019 4:04 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Boeing 737MAX Grounded Worldwide Q2 2019
Replies: 3768
Views: 383174

Re: Boeing 737MAX Grounded Worldwide Q2 2019

As for engine failure at takeoff, at least from the formal perspective, what is the probability of failure within those 3-5 critical minutes? Optimistically, I assume less than 1e-6 - although 1 in 100k hours for ETOPS180 means just about 1e-6. If you will, there are 2.5k flights daily at ATL and 2...

Jump to post
by OldAeroGuy
Wed Jun 12, 2019 3:16 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Boeing 737MAX Grounded Worldwide Q2 2019
Replies: 3768
Views: 383174

Re: Boeing 737MAX Grounded Worldwide Q2 2019

What kind of fatal error engine shutdown can cause? Shutting down wrong engine is surely one thing; and it have happened before. You probably know better than me what are precautions to avoid that. What else can be done what cannot be undone? What other actions are critical to be performed right aw...

Jump to post
by OldAeroGuy
Wed Jun 12, 2019 1:58 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Boeing 737MAX Grounded Worldwide Q2 2019
Replies: 3768
Views: 383174

Re: Boeing 737MAX Grounded Worldwide Q2 2019

Exactly why I don't really care that much for the pilot training element I want it but it's just icing on the cake for me. I don't want them facing these issues full stop. And thats exactly what aviation safety should be aiming for before we even worry about their training I fear to get MACS safe t...

Jump to post
by OldAeroGuy
Wed Jun 12, 2019 1:44 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Boeing 737MAX Grounded Worldwide Q2 2019
Replies: 3768
Views: 383174

Re: Boeing 737MAX Grounded Worldwide Q2 2019

We would have a hard time justifying a human based control having a PFD of less than 0.1. If the safety case has a low initiating event frequency, multiple layers of protection, and you end up with an acceptable residual risk then that’s fine - in other words, in the NG case, people can be a long w...

Jump to post
by OldAeroGuy
Tue Jun 11, 2019 5:17 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Boeing 737MAX Grounded Worldwide Q2 2019
Replies: 3768
Views: 383174

Re: Boeing 737MAX Grounded Worldwide Q2 2019

What is (conveniently?) missing in this comparison is the initial size of the JT8D had when the fuselage was designed compared to the LEAP 1B of today... it was 48" and the same fuselage LEAP 1B Fan/Fuselage Width: 46.7% JT8D Fan/Fuselage Width: 32,5% Still convinced that it has a neglectible ...

Jump to post
by OldAeroGuy
Tue Jun 11, 2019 3:48 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Boeing 737MAX Grounded Worldwide Q2 2019
Replies: 3768
Views: 383174

Re: Boeing 737MAX Grounded Worldwide Q2 2019

So too large for fuselage or overall layout suffered? I believe A320 fuselage is about same size and handles same size engines as MAX without extra issues. So starting statement plane with engines too big for the fuselage becomes questionable. Which doesn't bring extra credibility to the rest of it...

Jump to post
by OldAeroGuy
Mon Jun 10, 2019 12:43 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Boeing 737MAX Grounded Worldwide Q2 2019
Replies: 3768
Views: 383174

Re: Boeing 737MAX Grounded Worldwide Q2 2019

I have wondered by Boeing didn't put it in the EAD. It is in the EAD, along with a list of other symptoms. Here's a portion of the EAD along with indications that would have been present shortly after liftoff for ET302 are shown in BOLD. AOA DISAGREE is shown in italic. 737 MAX EAD 2018-23-51 lists...

Jump to post
by OldAeroGuy
Sun Jun 09, 2019 5:49 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Boeing 737MAX Grounded Worldwide Q2 2019
Replies: 3768
Views: 383174

Re: Boeing 737MAX Grounded Worldwide Q2 2019

Interested wrote:

They deliberately created a defective sensor to prevent pilot overload. Same reason they didn't tell the test pilots who were writing the manual for Max about MCAS


No, Boeing did not create a defective sensor to prevent pilot overload.

Your logic path strains a rational thought process.

Jump to post
by OldAeroGuy
Sun Jun 09, 2019 3:12 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Boeing 737MAX Grounded Worldwide Q2 2019
Replies: 3768
Views: 383174

Re: Boeing 737MAX Grounded Worldwide Q2 2019

Any help the indicator could give has to be a factor in whether the pilots could have dealt better with the situation they were in Surely that's a given? Not necessarily. The ET302 crew appears to have been overloaded by the indications that were available on the flight deck. Another indication tha...

Jump to post
by OldAeroGuy
Sun Jun 09, 2019 1:01 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Boeing 737MAX Grounded Worldwide Q2 2019
Replies: 3768
Views: 383174

Re: Boeing 737MAX Grounded Worldwide Q2 2019

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-48461110 So Chris Brady (author of 737 technical guide and pilot) is wrong saying the disagree light would be first warning something is wrong and could have helped save the plane? His view is wrong and can be discounted can it? No point calling him as a witness in...

Jump to post
by OldAeroGuy
Sun Jun 09, 2019 1:09 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Boeing 737MAX Grounded Worldwide Q2 2019
Replies: 3768
Views: 383174

Re: Boeing 737MAX Grounded Worldwide Q2 2019

. . . With IAS DISAGREE and possibly ALT DISAGREE (amber alerts) visible to the flight crew if they were "familiar" with the bulletin, that would have been more than enough to alert them to an MCAS issue -- IMHO the lack of an AOA DISAGREE amber alert has always been a non-event and blown...

Jump to post
by OldAeroGuy
Sun Jun 09, 2019 1:05 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Boeing 737MAX Grounded Worldwide Q2 2019
Replies: 3768
Views: 383174

Re: Boeing 737MAX Grounded Worldwide Q2 2019

So, 10 - 25.01, 11 - 25.02, 12 -25.03 is within spec? No, an FAA or OEM AR pilot would consider this as neutrally stable and flunk the configuration per 25.203. Or is there some minimum increase in force? No, this one of the areas in the FAR's that is subject to pilot evaluation. The airplane has t...

Jump to post
by OldAeroGuy
Sat Jun 08, 2019 8:13 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Boeing 737MAX Grounded Worldwide Q2 2019
Replies: 3768
Views: 383174

Re: Boeing 737MAX Grounded Worldwide Q2 2019

What you're showing in this example is the rate of force decrease, d^2F/da^2. I am referring to fig. 7.2 in AC 25-7D where "acceptable" curve (vs speed) shows that exact behavior - decrease of derivative to zero at the edge. You interpret such behavior (vs AoA) as unacceptable. So where d...

Jump to post
by OldAeroGuy
Sat Jun 08, 2019 4:51 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Boeing 737MAX Grounded Worldwide Q2 2019
Replies: 3768
Views: 383174

Re: Boeing 737MAX Grounded Worldwide Q2 2019

What you're showing in this example is the rate of force decrease, d^2F/da^2. I am referring to fig. 7.2 in AC 25-7D where "acceptable" curve (vs speed) shows that exact behavior - decrease of derivative to zero at the edge. You interpret such behavior (vs AoA) as unacceptable. So where d...

Jump to post
by OldAeroGuy
Sat Jun 08, 2019 4:10 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Boeing 737MAX Grounded Worldwide Q2 2019
Replies: 3768
Views: 383174

Re: Boeing 737MAX Grounded Worldwide Q2 2019

The adaptive cruse control is yet again a dismal comparison. If the cruse control would accelerate on the failure off one sensor, you would have a comparison. On the failure of the cruise control, nothing hinders you to brake yourself. The car is not actively trying to kill you and your passengers....

Jump to post
by OldAeroGuy
Sat Jun 08, 2019 4:02 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Boeing 737MAX Grounded Worldwide Q2 2019
Replies: 3768
Views: 383174

Re: Boeing 737MAX Grounded Worldwide Q2 2019

I've seen a report a couple of weeks ago suggesting the warning light would have allowed the Ethiopian pilots to recognise and identify their problem earlier If that's true then it's end of argument about whether or not it would have helped them. Do you have a source for the suggestion? I'm curious...

Jump to post
by OldAeroGuy
Sat Jun 08, 2019 3:57 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Boeing 737MAX Grounded Worldwide Q2 2019
Replies: 3768
Views: 383174

Re: Boeing 737MAX Grounded Worldwide Q2 2019

My apologies, but is there a specific reference for these interpretations? Our beloved 25-7 has graphs only for force vs speed, and all your examples would be acceptable if AoA is interpreted as "AoA required at given speed". Gradient as dF/dx doesn't change sign in your examples, and I d...

Jump to post
by OldAeroGuy
Sat Jun 08, 2019 3:05 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Boeing 737MAX Grounded Worldwide Q2 2019
Replies: 3768
Views: 383174

Re: Boeing 737MAX Grounded Worldwide Q2 2019

I've seen a report a couple of weeks ago suggesting the warning light would have allowed the Ethiopian pilots to recognise and identify their problem earlier If that's true then it's end of argument about whether or not it would have helped them. Do you have a source for the suggestion? I'm curious...

Jump to post
by OldAeroGuy
Sat Jun 08, 2019 2:57 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Boeing 737MAX Grounded Worldwide Q2 2019
Replies: 3768
Views: 383174

Re: Boeing 737MAX Grounded Worldwide Q2 2019

But how many other commercial planes would even test pilot skills in this way? How many other commercial planes would try and crash themselves? Any commercial airplane that has a runaway stab trim and the crew does not deal with it correctly. It means it has the potential to crash if you don't deal...

Jump to post
by OldAeroGuy
Sat Jun 08, 2019 2:31 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Boeing 737MAX Grounded Worldwide Q2 2019
Replies: 3768
Views: 383174

Re: Boeing 737MAX Grounded Worldwide Q2 2019

I've seen it suggested that enlarging the h. stab would solve the problem. This isn't the case. I assume the limiting case/configuration is the stab trim at nose up limit of trim switch, and the righting moment versus AOA curve as the elevator is used to enter a stall according to the parameters of...

Jump to post
by OldAeroGuy
Sat Jun 08, 2019 2:22 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Boeing 737MAX Grounded Worldwide Q2 2019
Replies: 3768
Views: 383174

Re: Boeing 737MAX Grounded Worldwide Q2 2019

The intent is to obtain enough data to determine the stall speed at an entry rate not exceeding 1.0 knot/second. I take it that means a deceleration of less than 1.0 knot/second to stall, during which the control pressure must increase. So the righting force curve went flat or up on the MAX in this...

Jump to post
by OldAeroGuy
Fri Jun 07, 2019 7:00 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Boeing 737MAX Grounded Worldwide Q2 2019
Replies: 3768
Views: 383174

Re: Boeing 737MAX Grounded Worldwide Q2 2019

Not a designer or engineer, so correct me if I am wrong.. From some of what I have read I get the impression that adjusting the stabiliser design would help resolve the problems that sparked the genesis of MCAS. Would that take months or would it be years? If an airworthiness certificate is refused...

Jump to post
by OldAeroGuy
Fri Jun 07, 2019 5:47 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Boeing 737MAX Grounded Worldwide Q2 2019
Replies: 3768
Views: 383174

Re: Boeing 737MAX Grounded Worldwide Q2 2019

What do you thing about the term "death trap"? Is it appropriate for discussions on this thread? We need some words to talk about dangerous things and we cannot ban all of them. Now that you specifically asked I could use that word to describe the condition of the plane after the first Li...

Jump to post
by OldAeroGuy
Fri Jun 07, 2019 3:06 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Boeing 737MAX Grounded Worldwide Q2 2019
Replies: 3768
Views: 383174

Re: Boeing 737MAX Grounded Worldwide Q2 2019

A simple question: Do you think Boeing set out to kill people by creating the 737 MAX? What asinine question. Of course not. That was the whole point. NObody has set out to kill anybody. It was the point I was trying to make that the word kill is totally 1000% inappropriate to be used anywhere in t...

Jump to post
by OldAeroGuy
Fri Jun 07, 2019 2:52 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Boeing 737MAX Grounded Worldwide Q2 2019
Replies: 3768
Views: 383174

Re: Boeing 737MAX Grounded Worldwide Q2 2019

Then you've missed the replies that say Boeing caused the MAX to be a "Death Trap". Over the top language has been the hallmark rather the exception for this thread. Your over the top language tries to conflate two very different things. Killing people is a crime and those who kill people...

Jump to post
by OldAeroGuy
Fri Jun 07, 2019 1:14 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Boeing 737MAX Grounded Worldwide Q2 2019
Replies: 3768
Views: 383174

Re: Boeing 737MAX Grounded Worldwide Q2 2019

People still fly with airlines that have crashed planes and killed far more people than the two Max crashes . One more issue in a way you talk. I haven't seen anybody say in any of these threads that Boeing have killed anybody, but here you talk about airlines that have killed people. Not good. I g...

Jump to post
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • 78