Search found 2788 matches

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by trintocan
Mon Jan 25, 2021 2:09 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2021
Replies: 235
Views: 23625

Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2021

Happy New Year 2021 everybody. Let us all hope that the aviation industry in the Caribbean and worldwide can begin to recover from the severe knocks of the pandemic and resulting recession. RIP Gordon Butch Stewart. Yes he was a controversial figure in many respects but he helped promote Jamaica and...

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by trintocan
Thu Jul 09, 2020 5:04 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2020
Replies: 990
Views: 109507

Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2020

The COVID-19 crisis has caused major upheaval to global aviation and the Caribbean has not been spared. We now see that LI have been brought to their knees and ultimately their demise. While many discussions continue as to what to do next about the fallen flag, we should re-evaluate how we got here ...

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by trintocan
Mon Jul 06, 2020 11:16 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: BA to guyana South America?
Replies: 19
Views: 4501

Re: BA to guyana South America?

As mentioned above, BOAC then BA used to serve GEO and did so for many years. They ultimately served it with 747s on runs via POS, BGI and ANU to LHR. They ended service there in 1985. I recall seeing the 747 at GEO back in 1978 when I visited Guyana and later learnt that it was significantly load-r...

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by trintocan
Wed May 27, 2020 7:10 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2020
Replies: 990
Views: 109507

Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2020

It will be interesting to see what happens to BW and LI when travel in the region restarts. One thing is for certain though, intra-regional travel is not as ignored as some make it out to be. Trinidad & Tobago is a major source of visitors to several of the nearby islands (I recall some years ag...

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by trintocan
Tue May 05, 2020 10:33 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2020
Replies: 990
Views: 109507

Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2020

Apart from BA, VS and TUI, all have gone bust and VS is in dire straits. Does TUI fly out of England to Trinidad? Who is VS? VS is Virgin Atlantic. TUI do not fly to Trinidad & Tobago. BA operate POS, Trinidad's only route to the UK with 5 weekly flights to LGW via UVF. These flights have now b...

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by trintocan
Sat May 02, 2020 5:00 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2020
Replies: 990
Views: 109507

Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2020

Ryby92, the reason I suggested that BA may consider joining POS and BGI on flights was a consideration of the downturn in the market and the strong possibility that recovery may be slow. BGI and POS are likely to recover faster than the other islands and both markets rely on high frequencies to the ...

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by trintocan
Sat May 02, 2020 10:35 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2020
Replies: 990
Views: 109507

Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2020

To turn to BW and LI, whither do they go from here? BW will survive if, for nothing else, the umbilical link between POS and TAB. The Airbridge would not be allowed to become dormant. Beyond that, BW's route expansion is likely to be put on ice for now. I see their priorities, once markets start to ...

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by trintocan
Sat May 02, 2020 9:59 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2020
Replies: 990
Views: 109507

Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2020

Well well, this is truly an epoch-defining moment. The Coronavirus pandemic has had enormous effects far and wide and with a speed and scale unprecedented in recent times. Aviation globally has been brought to its knees and the Caribbean has not been spared. I was actually affected directly as I fle...

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by trintocan
Mon Jan 20, 2020 7:10 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2020
Replies: 990
Views: 109507

Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2020

With BW now planning on operating 9 ATRs, one wonders, where are they going to fly all of them? As mentioned earlier they may move 1 or 2 to KIN and try GCM and HAV with them. Are they considering adding some regional flights directly from TAB? TAB - BGI daily could probably work, TAB - GND probably...

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by trintocan
Mon Jan 20, 2020 7:00 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2020
Replies: 990
Views: 109507

Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2020

Article on CAL plans... https://trinidadexpress.com/business/local/cal-wants-more-atrs/article_32f0c0ce-3a59-11ea-8469-8bda4e4f52c7.html# And I quote “Caribbean Airlines’ vision is to improve regional connectivity from Jamaica and Cuba in the west, to Suriname in the east. This process of building ...

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by trintocan
Thu Jan 16, 2020 12:20 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2020
Replies: 990
Views: 109507

Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2020

BW600 wrote:
9Y-TTI is on its delivery flight to POS. Would be interesting to see what BW’s plans are for its increased regional fleet.


That is good news for BW. The question is, what is the latest status of 9Y-TTA? Have repairs been planned or implemented for it?

Trintocan.

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by trintocan
Mon Jan 13, 2020 10:43 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: 777 Retirement/Scrapping Thread - 2020
Replies: 144
Views: 37034

Re: 777 Retirement/Scrapping Thread - 2020

The retirement of G-ZZZC means that BA's transition to smaller First cabins continues apace. Only her two sister 772s -ZA and -ZB remain with 17 First seats. BA have been moving to just 8 First seats in refurbished 777s and in the 787-9s and the forthcoming -10s. The other two 772s are scheduled to ...

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by trintocan
Mon Jan 13, 2020 2:16 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: SVD Airport - was it worth it?
Replies: 73
Views: 8174

Re: SVD Airport - was it worth it?

Agree that any nation island needs a proper airport as per their natural, isolated nature. Agree that you cannot build a major infrastructure to be outdated in 5-10 years Don't agree with: LIAT already served SVD Bewee already serviced SVD, they are only doing an additional the JFK route once a wee...

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by trintocan
Sun Jan 12, 2020 10:22 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: SVD Airport - was it worth it?
Replies: 73
Views: 8174

Re: SVD Airport - was it worth it?

This has been an interesting discussion but one point needs to be made up front. Please remember that we are dealing with an island nation. Islands are inherently isolated and access to them becomes critical. Places that are on a mainland almost always have land access (admittedly there are exceptio...

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by trintocan
Wed Nov 20, 2019 11:05 pm
Forum: Travel, Polls & Preferences
Topic: Do Virgin Atlantic still fly from Gatwick - Tobago? I can't seem to book flights on their website!
Replies: 14
Views: 2006

Re: Do Virgin Atlantic still fly from Gatwick - Tobago? I can't seem to book flights on their website!

VS fly twice weekly from LGW to TAB via UVF on Sun and Wed in the winter and on Sun only during the summer. Their website is slightly confusing as TAB tends to be listed under Trinidad - VS do not serve POS as such. TAB - UVF is not bookable. BA fly twice weekly LGW to TAB via ANU year-round, in the...

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by trintocan
Thu Sep 12, 2019 9:38 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2019
Replies: 484
Views: 64718

Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2019

I think that the grounding of the 737 MAX planes was a major reason behind AA reducing POS to 2 daily from 3 this summer. Remember that POS was a headline MAX route for the airline and the grounding left them scrambling to reshuffle craft to routes across the network. The third frequency thus became...

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by trintocan
Mon Sep 09, 2019 10:56 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: What domestic facilities do airports/Heathrow airport need to operate domestic flights?
Replies: 7
Views: 1411

Re: What domestic facilities do airports/Heathrow airport need to operate domestic flights?

The requirements for handling domestic flights at LHR arise because domestic and international passengers are not separated while in the departure hall. Just after check-in, therefore, domestic passengers need to have the biometric photos taken which are then compared by facial scanning at the gates...

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by trintocan
Sat Aug 24, 2019 10:07 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2019
Replies: 484
Views: 64718

Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2019

BA increasing UVF to 9 weekly is not surprising and appeared to be the most logical outcome of the VS situation there. As mentioned, their present daily flights continue to POS 5 days per week (Mon, Tue, Thur, Fri and Sun) and to GND on Wed and Sat. BA offer First on most of these flights and this a...

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by trintocan
Fri Aug 09, 2019 10:07 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Virgin Atlantic to cancel St Lucia
Replies: 42
Views: 12145

Re: Virgin Atlantic to cancel St Lucia

With their joint venture with delta, they can have passengers connect in jfk and Atlanta now to head there. What an awful thought ! Far easier to connect via BGI or ANU on LIAT, meaning arrival into SLU rather than UVF which also saves that dreadful road journey from UVF and it's far closer to many...

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by trintocan
Thu Aug 08, 2019 11:15 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Virgin Atlantic to cancel St Lucia
Replies: 42
Views: 12145

Re: Virgin Atlantic to cancel St Lucia

This news has certainly caused a stir in the Caribbean. The VS announcement of the closure of UVF, a major destination for them in the region, has come as something of a surprise. If one looks more into it though one sees more sides to this than initially appear. VS' main problem is that they are tr...

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by trintocan
Sun Jul 28, 2019 2:21 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2019
Replies: 484
Views: 64718

Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2019

Virgin Atlantic to to Halt Flights To Saint Lucia: https://stluciatimes.com/virgin-atlantic-to-halt-flights-to-saint-lucia-in-subsidy-stalemate/?fbclid=IwAR0P6l3NQjhhZr3v3FP__erZnVxlF-UmJEdAfoBir7z3FXv0onKzdFIN7Jc This is quite significant news indeed. Is it all about subsidies (route guarantees in...

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by trintocan
Sat Jul 27, 2019 7:48 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2019
Replies: 484
Views: 64718

Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2019

Virgin Atlantic to to Halt Flights To Saint Lucia: https://stluciatimes.com/virgin-atlantic-to-halt-flights-to-saint-lucia-in-subsidy-stalemate/?fbclid=IwAR0P6l3NQjhhZr3v3FP__erZnVxlF-UmJEdAfoBir7z3FXv0onKzdFIN7Jc This is quite significant news indeed. Is it all about subsidies (route guarantees in...

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by trintocan
Sat Jul 27, 2019 5:52 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2019
Replies: 484
Views: 64718

Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2019

[ I have already posted that in a rational world a little carrier like BW should not be operating two fleets (used to be three until the two 763s were returned to ILFC in 2016) and the island hopping should be done by LIAT. But Caribbean aviation is not rational, and LIAT's dire straits can only en...

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by trintocan
Sat Jul 27, 2019 5:38 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2019
Replies: 484
Views: 64718

Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2019

[ I have already posted that in a rational world a little carrier like BW should not be operating two fleets (used to be three until the two 763s were returned to ILFC in 2016) and the island hopping should be done by LIAT. But Caribbean aviation is not rational, and LIAT's dire straits can only en...

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by trintocan
Sat Jul 27, 2019 4:50 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2019
Replies: 484
Views: 64718

Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2019

GND is subsidizing LI GND BGI routes. In fact that is a model that LI should adopt. Rather than crying for gov'ts to sink money into a hole they should identify the routes which aren't profitable and then demand a subsidy, or the route to be withdrawn. And I dont mean sectors that are part of a pro...

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by trintocan
Sun Jul 21, 2019 6:37 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2019
Replies: 484
Views: 64718

Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2019

Once again LIAT's woes make the headlines. BGI is clearly in deep financial trouble and Ms Mottley, having turned to the IMF for financial support, has been told to get rid of loss-making airline investments. To those of us in the Caribbean this is nothing new; after all both POS and KIN have faced ...

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by trintocan
Mon May 27, 2019 11:20 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: New 747-400 operator in St Vincent and the Grenadines? (SVD)
Replies: 30
Views: 6991

Re: New 747-400 operator in St Vincent and the Grenadines? (SVD)

This does not make any sense whatsoever. St Vincent is a small market of some 110 000 people and there is no way that market can support a 747-400 flying anywhere, let alone DXB. Let's consider a few things. First, if anyone is concerned that after 2 years the new SVD is underutilised, one just need...

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by trintocan
Fri Apr 05, 2019 10:03 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2019
Replies: 484
Views: 64718

Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2019

If there were to be true cooperation you'd have to consider radical options such as BW being all-jet to serve the longer routes and LI taking over domestic routes including POS-TAB with aircraft based at POS. (Yes I know that POS-TAB is cabotage but the T&T government could allow it and pay LI ...

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by trintocan
Fri Apr 05, 2019 9:58 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2019
Replies: 484
Views: 64718

Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2019

What might help LI with POS is a BW/LI code share allowing BW to operate GND POS and for LI to operate the SVD POS routes. This reduces duplication and probably improves load factors. As of now LI has at least 1 plane more than it needs because it drastically scaled back its northern tier routes. I...

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by trintocan
Thu Apr 04, 2019 7:16 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2019
Replies: 484
Views: 64718

Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2019

Got this from a friend. https://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll32/beeweel15/FB_IMG_1553905139232_1.jpg Just added confirmation that this is in fact real. http://jamaica-gleaner.com/article/lead-stories/20190330/fly-jamaica-lays-all-staff Fly Jamaica lays off all staff Saturday | March 30, 2019 Emplo...

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by trintocan
Thu Apr 04, 2019 6:55 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2019
Replies: 484
Views: 64718

Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2019

I was of the impression that POS was one of LI's bigger markets, and that SLU was also a profitable one. This is my point about LIAT. Their decisions are made purely on intimidating countries to pay up. Not on whether routes make sense or not. Regardless as to whether the FDF. PTP, or SJU routes ar...

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by trintocan
Wed Mar 06, 2019 9:34 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Farnborough Airshow Public Weekend Axed
Replies: 11
Views: 3347

Re: Farnborough Airshow Public Weekend Axed

It is rather unfortunate that this has happened but I guess it relates to the times of late. I have been to the Farnborough show twice, in 2008 and 2010. I found the show to be enjoyable but nonetheless found myself preferring Le Bourget. The Paris Air Salon has maintained the pomp and glamour assoc...

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by trintocan
Mon Mar 04, 2019 11:48 pm
Forum: Travel, Polls & Preferences
Topic: Barbados Concorde Closed
Replies: 30
Views: 10473

Re: Barbados Concorde Closed

How did it end up in Barbados? What was the process for that? It flew here on a revenue flight and was handed over. Barbados was one of VERY few places with regularly scheduled Concorde service. New York, London, Paris and Barbados. Used to watch it come in all the time and listen to it roar. Was f...

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by trintocan
Mon Mar 04, 2019 3:34 pm
Forum: Travel, Polls & Preferences
Topic: Barbados Concorde Closed
Replies: 30
Views: 10473

Re: Barbados Concorde Closed

Did only 3 of BA Concordes actually have the range to make it to BGI? Yes, only G-BOAE, -AF and -AG had the range to do LHR - BGI nonstop and with a reduced payload of 80 passengers. What's in Barbados for someone to need to get there in such a hurry? In addition to what's already been said, BGI ha...

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by trintocan
Mon Mar 04, 2019 12:22 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2019
Replies: 484
Views: 64718

Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2019

I have just read on another thread that the Barbados Concorde Experience has been closed down. Does anyone have more information about this? This is a massive shame as it was a very well put-together showcase for this beautiful aircraft. I visited it back in 2007 and thoroughly enjoyed it. I hope th...

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by trintocan
Mon Mar 04, 2019 12:14 pm
Forum: Travel, Polls & Preferences
Topic: Barbados Concorde Closed
Replies: 30
Views: 10473

Re: Barbados Concorde Closed

That is very sad to hear. I went to the Barbados Concorde Experience in 2007 - it was amazing! It was very well put-together and an excellent showcase for the majestic plane. It is sad that they have closed, I wonder what has happened? To be fair Barbados has had severe financial problems of late. B...

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by trintocan
Mon Mar 04, 2019 11:54 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2019
Replies: 484
Views: 64718

Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2019

Liat are in the news again and not in a good way. They have suffered from financial problems for most of their existence but right now it appears there is a deeper problem at hand. The issue now is how do they adapt to a rapidly changing aviation environment in the Caribbean. Liat historically was a...

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by trintocan
Tue Feb 19, 2019 6:01 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: A330 and A340 Write-off/Retirement/Scrap Thread - 2019
Replies: 234
Views: 80015

Re: A330 and A340 Write-off/Retirement/Scrap Thread - 2019

Updates 19th Feb 2019: Mostly sad news: A330-243 MSN 348 HC-COH TAME Ecuador Ferried 17 Feb19 GYE-DGX, for part-out & scrap ex A6-EAA A340-313 MSN 332 EC- Plus Ultra Lineas Aéreas Ferried 14 Feb19 CRK-MNL, RP-reg prior delivery ex RP-C3437 A340-642 MSN 482 D-AIHA Lufthansa Reg cancelled 08 Feb1...

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by trintocan
Sun Feb 17, 2019 10:02 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2019
Replies: 484
Views: 64718

Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2019

BWA900 wrote:
gunnerman wrote:
The A380s were just an idle speculation. The only quadjets to the region are VS's 744s to BGI (5x weekly), MBJ (3) and HAV (2), and one day they will all be replaced with twinjets.


Add KLM to CUR and PBM and also CRL to PTP and FDF


Also add PY with the A340-300 on PBM-AMS.

Trintocan.

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by trintocan
Sun Feb 17, 2019 9:27 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2019
Replies: 484
Views: 64718

Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2019

To start with, please let us not split hairs about what the Caribbean is defined as. The Bahamas is socio-culturally part of the Caribbean even if it lies marginally outside and many Bahamian aviation issues have been covered in the Caribbean forum over the years. Bermuda, even further away, can be ...

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by trintocan
Mon Jan 21, 2019 7:36 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: 777 Retirement/Scrapping Thread - 2019
Replies: 147
Views: 42052

Re: 777 Retirement/Scrapping Thread - 2019

We thus have the first example of a second-generation 777 going to scrap.... Sorry for nit-picking, but isn't 777-200LR actually the third generation of 777 models? I always thought these generations were: 1: 777-200 (-200A) 2: 777-200ER and 777-300 3: 777-200LR and 777-300ER 777-200, 777-200ER and...

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by trintocan
Mon Jan 21, 2019 6:44 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: 777 Retirement/Scrapping Thread - 2019
Replies: 147
Views: 42052

Re: 777 Retirement/Scrapping Thread - 2019

We thus have the first example of a second-generation 777 going to scrap. The EY plane seems to have been parked for awhile as it remained in the older (yet still striking) livery. It's a bit sad to see it going like this but time moves on and with higher production rates of new aircraft across the ...

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by trintocan
Mon Jan 14, 2019 9:41 pm
Forum: Travel, Polls & Preferences
Topic: Why didn’t AA try a separate low fare operation ?
Replies: 73
Views: 8466

Re: Why didn’t AA try a separate low fare operation ?

AF's Joon, which is soon to disappear back into the its parent But Joon isn't the real LCC within Air France-KLM. The real LCC of Air France-KLM is Transavia, which is performing pretty well. The difference is that Transavia wasn't founded by Air France-KLM. It was a pre-existing airline that was l...

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by trintocan
Mon Jan 14, 2019 4:57 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2019
Replies: 484
Views: 64718

Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2019

This is the second year/season that VS is operating a 2x Weekly LHR service to BGI. Seams to be doing well enough on a seasonal basis. VS first ran LHR - BGI seasonally back in the Winter of 2007-08 but it did not catch on then and was not repeated for the next few years. It seems to be working for...

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by trintocan
Mon Jan 14, 2019 3:04 pm
Forum: Travel, Polls & Preferences
Topic: Why didn’t AA try a separate low fare operation ?
Replies: 73
Views: 8466

Re: Why didn’t AA try a separate low fare operation ?

AA777223 wrote:
The Europeans seem to have better luck. There's Edelweiss of Swiss and Eurowings (and Condor?) of LH.


Condor (DE) was a subsidiary of LH years ago. It is now owned by Thomas Cook.

Trintocan.

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by trintocan
Mon Jan 14, 2019 2:57 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2019
Replies: 484
Views: 64718

Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2019

Happy New Year 2019 everybody. Already we see that the GEO scene is heating up with multiple options for services to MIA and JFK now. As for why the aforementioned traveller booked CM to MIA from there, it could simply be that was the sole available option to him at the time he booked. Online search...

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by trintocan
Mon Jan 14, 2019 1:46 pm
Forum: Travel, Polls & Preferences
Topic: Why didn’t AA try a separate low fare operation ?
Replies: 73
Views: 8466

Re: Why didn’t AA try a separate low fare operation ?

Slightly off-topic, another "successful" example of an airline within an airline is IBERIA EXPRESS, that handles less business-heavy routes for her mother IBERIA and competes head to head with low costs. Cabin crew are paid less, among other differences. Again, as with Air Canada Rouge, I...

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by trintocan
Mon Jan 14, 2019 12:49 pm
Forum: Travel, Polls & Preferences
Topic: Why didn’t AA try a separate low fare operation ?
Replies: 73
Views: 8466

Re: Why didn’t AA try a separate low fare operation ?

AA were in serious financial difficulties at the time and were being restructured. Delta started Song in 2003. CO started Cal Lite in 1993. AA wasn't perpetually in financial distress. AA's Ch 11 filing came 11/29/11. Anybody remember the short-lived AA ad tag line, 'A great low fare and a lot more...

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by trintocan
Mon Jan 14, 2019 12:18 pm
Forum: Travel, Polls & Preferences
Topic: Why didn’t AA try a separate low fare operation ?
Replies: 73
Views: 8466

Re: Why didn’t AA try a separate low fare operation ?

AA were in serious financial difficulties at the time and were being restructured. They clearly decided that adding another operational entity was not the best thing to do at that point in time. To a wider point, these "airlines within airlines" are potentially very problematic. They merel...

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by trintocan
Mon Jan 14, 2019 11:21 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Family sit on floor during flight, not enough seats.
Replies: 48
Views: 14262

Re: Family sit on floor during flight, not enough seats.

This is totally unacceptable. While airlines do have to swap aircraft at short notice for any of several reasons, they need to ensure that the replacement craft has sufficient seats to handle all of the booked passengers. If this is not possible then they need to book affected passengers (who should...

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