Search found 19489 matches

by lightsaber
Sat Jul 04, 2020 2:06 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Updated: LATAM files for Bankruptcy
Replies: 282
Views: 53137

Re: Updated: LATAM files for Bankruptcy

Airbus A320 -232 1835 PR-MBS Latam Brasil ferried 03-04jul20 GIG-CNF-BAQ-TUS on return to lessor ex N544JB Airbus A350 -941 27 PR-XTB Latam Brasil ferried 03-04jul20 GRU-MIA-VCV on return to lessor ex F-WZFV Heard about the A359, the A320 is news to me. There are a few others that will allegedly be...

Jump to post
by lightsaber
Sat Jul 04, 2020 1:56 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: PIA banned from Europe
Replies: 80
Views: 14549

Re: PIA banned from Europe

Hopefully they’ll be back in the UK soon. I have flown to Pakistan and back many times and PIA was always my first choice. Fair priced business class, fairly decent seats and decent food. Fairly decent seats as compared to what? Ryanair? I can't think of many airlines with a worse longhaul product....

Jump to post
by lightsaber
Sat Jul 04, 2020 1:35 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Thierry Antinori hitting back on Emirates?
Replies: 4
Views: 1082

Re: Thierry Antinori hitting back on Emirates?

This talking sounds like trying to find space in the press. First of all, EK isn't the big threat, it is TK and ET expanding. Eventually the 3rd runway at IST will be fully operational, giving a big advantage. The 2nd airport at Mumbai will provide competition on direct flights, but not so much on c...

Jump to post
by lightsaber
Fri Jul 03, 2020 1:04 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: 777 Retirement/Scrapping Thread - 2020
Replies: 91
Views: 20848

Re: 777 Retirement/Scrapping Thread - 2020

We have known for years that there would be a fairly large number of fairly young 77Ws coming off lease in the next few years, but the prospects were good (pre COVID) that they would find new operators. They are not as efficient as the 787s and A350s now coming off the assembly lines, but are still...

Jump to post
by lightsaber
Fri Jul 03, 2020 12:48 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Boeing 737MAX Grounding, General Discussion Thread, Q3 2020
Replies: 77
Views: 10310

Re: Boeing 737MAX Grounding, General Discussion Thread, Q3 2020

https://simpleflying.com/alaska-airlines-boeing-737-max-commitment/ Alaska Air CEO sat down with aviation week for an interview. We now have the first insight into how the tests went. Not granular info but it went very well apparently. The CEO said “I don’t feel any reservation at all about the Boe...

Jump to post
by lightsaber
Thu Jul 02, 2020 7:12 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Turkish Aviation July 2020
Replies: 28
Views: 1993

Re: Turkish Aviation July 2020

I don't know why, but every time I look on Flightradar I see aircraft taxiing from the eastern side of the terminal all the way around to the two western runways, so it seems that this runway isn't really in use yet. Does anyone know what's going on there? Afaik, the new rwy (18/36) is mostly used ...

Jump to post
by lightsaber
Thu Jul 02, 2020 1:46 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Aircraft Values, And Lease Pricing - Winter 2020
Replies: 86
Views: 16022

Re: Aircraft Values, And Lease Pricing - Winter 2020

I don't think we will have a market clearing price but rather a market clearing time, because owning an airplane induces cost (storage, maintenance, financing charge). The phrase the market can stay irrational longer than you can stay solvent, seems an appropriate one for an entity looking to take ...

Jump to post
by lightsaber
Thu Jul 02, 2020 6:28 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Aircraft Values, And Lease Pricing - Winter 2020
Replies: 86
Views: 16022

Re: Aircraft Values, And Lease Pricing - Winter 2020

Leeham has another article on the drop in sales and lease rates. But they have a different age of aircraft, so it is very tough to compare. This time (older) 15 year old aircraft (I posted a link before on 10 year old aircraft). This is also first run 777-300ER and the first 18 months of production ...

Jump to post
by lightsaber
Thu Jul 02, 2020 4:38 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: AA reconsidering seatback video screens
Replies: 75
Views: 9961

Re: AA reconsidering seatback video screens

I like IFE as it keeps the other idiot sedated. Sadly, it has been too long since I met a stranger on a flight who was great conversation. When I first saw IFE, on a Virgin Atlantic flight, when they were the only ones to have it, was right out of an Orwellian novel. A full 747, each staring at a sc...

Jump to post
by lightsaber
Thu Jul 02, 2020 12:57 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: JetBlue Agrees Not to Involuntarily Lay Off Pilots Until May 2021
Replies: 38
Views: 4329

Re: JetBlue Agrees Not to Involuntarily Lay Off Workers Until May 2021

of course they're expendable. The difference between a pilot and a gate agent, even at the supervisor level, is literally worlds apart. Pilots bank their lives on the career. Sure it's a risk, and that's why most of them seek unions so strongly. They are highly educated and skilled workforce. The a...

Jump to post
by lightsaber
Wed Jul 01, 2020 8:16 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: ELAL temporarily ceases ops
Replies: 11
Views: 7751

Re: ELAL temporarily ceases ops

Keep the posts on aviation.
Political posts can and will result in a ban. This is your warning.

Lightsaber

Jump to post
by lightsaber
Wed Jul 01, 2020 7:35 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Airport construction projects question
Replies: 73
Views: 10254

Re: Airport construction projects question

Scotron12 wrote:
LHR...they should sneak in there, build the 3rd runway while most folk are on lockdown. :D

And a 4th!

:mrgreen:

Lightsaber

Jump to post
by lightsaber
Wed Jul 01, 2020 7:27 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Aircraft Values, And Lease Pricing - Winter 2020
Replies: 86
Views: 16022

Re: Aircraft Values, And Lease Pricing - Winter 2020

https://apnews.com/90bd06e447d4d1a336749d31a47f2f7f

Lightsaber
-->

So Delta did a large sale leaseback. This should give us an assumption on value (once public), for ten A220-100:
https://apnews.com/90bd06e447d4d1a336749d31a47f2f7f

Lightsaber

Jump to post
by lightsaber
Wed Jul 01, 2020 5:56 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: ICAO adopts changes to CORSIA emissions scheme due COVID
Replies: 13
Views: 1259

Re: ICAO adopts changes to CORSIA emissions scheme due COVID

Yes good news for the industry. This should give them plenty of headroom for years to come. I've always felt the whole thing was unnecessary anyhow as the industry by its nature seeks to reduce cost and becomes ever more fuel-efficient as time goes on anyhow This industry lives and dies off fuel bi...

Jump to post
by lightsaber
Wed Jul 01, 2020 4:30 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Updated: Aeroméxico files for Chapter 11
Replies: 89
Views: 16808

Re: Updated: Aeroméxico files for Chapter 11

Folks, this is an AeroMexico thread. Please only discuss their partner airlines as to how it impacts AeroMexico.

Jump to post
by lightsaber
Wed Jul 01, 2020 3:05 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Aircraft Values, And Lease Pricing - Winter 2020
Replies: 86
Views: 16022

Re: Aircraft Values, And Lease Pricing - Winter 2020

Unfortunately, I think the leasing companies are in trouble as you note. I'm not sure what demand will be or more precisely how the recovery curve will be. Their troubles may depend on how much they can earn with the sale-and-leaseback market. BOC Aviation seems to be able to get some deals from ai...

Jump to post
by lightsaber
Wed Jul 01, 2020 2:04 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: CN3 order 105 ARJ21s from COMAC
Replies: 98
Views: 21294

Re: CN3 order 105 ARJ21s from COMAC

What does HMV mean. I googled it and His Masters voice or High Maintenance Va***a isn't really helpful. You mean the big 3 airlines in China, or any western airline? Not sure if you already found it, but it stands for Heavy Maintenance Visit How does Lightsaber (who as far as I know is an American)...

Jump to post
by lightsaber
Tue Jun 30, 2020 8:19 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Reuters: Airbus 15K job cuts outlined 30 June 2020
Replies: 23
Views: 4219

Re: Reuters: Airbus 15K job cuts outlined 30 June 2020

Unfortunate news for Airbus, its employees, its suppliers, and the entire industry. Another ripple in the pond. We. Are. Just. Getting. Started. With. This. Folks. Very unfortunate. The cuts are not enough. I'm not saying the competitor will do any better, but airlines will have a shortage of money...

Jump to post
by lightsaber
Tue Jun 30, 2020 7:49 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Turkish Aviation July 2020
Replies: 28
Views: 1993

Re: Turkish Aviation July 2020

Is there a timeframe for the new (3rd at IST) runway to activate its ILS?
Lightsaber

Jump to post
by lightsaber
Tue Jun 30, 2020 4:18 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Mitsubishi SpaceJet — Flight Test & Production Thread
Replies: 497
Views: 102055

Re: Mitsubishi SpaceJet — Flight Test & Production Thread

The management shakeup was needed. A new chief engineer helps. Good news the problems will be fixed. I hope the M90 timeline holds (or something close). I believe there will be an M100. The reality is, the CF-34-8 was out of date at EIS. That is the weak link of prior jets. My experience on the PW1...

Jump to post
by lightsaber
Tue Jun 30, 2020 4:13 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020
Replies: 1289
Views: 244274

Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Folks, this is a production/testing thread. Please discuss 777x sales elsewhere.

Jump to post
by lightsaber
Tue Jun 30, 2020 3:55 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: PIA banned from Europe
Replies: 80
Views: 14549

Re: PIA banned from Europe

Yeah 1/3 of its pilots having faulty licenses is a HUUUUGE RED FLAG. Pakistan needs an audit. Bad the pilots could try this. Worse the flight schools complied Even worse the airline didn't discover this. Horrid that the regulator did catch the flight schools nor the airline until this was exposed a...

Jump to post
by lightsaber
Tue Jun 30, 2020 1:37 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: CN3 order 105 ARJ21s from COMAC
Replies: 98
Views: 21294

Re: CN3 order 105 ARJ21s from COMAC

Those COMAC airframes are literally "regional jets" as they won't be acquired by any carrier out of China... That's probably not likely. It has already been reported that they sold a few to airlines in Laos, Congo and Indonesia. It isn't difficult to imagine that they will push airlines a...

Jump to post
by lightsaber
Tue Jun 30, 2020 2:46 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: SoCal Boneyard Storage and Activity Thread
Replies: 366
Views: 46877

Re: SoCal Boneyard Storage and Activity Thread

According to a private LA aviation Facebook group that I am a part of, there will be 4 LATAM aircraft flying to VCV in the coming week/two weeks as a lease return. They are as follows: July 3: A359 PR-XTB MIA-VCV 3:00PM Arrival *Note that this is the first ever visit of an A350 to VCV. July 6: A320...

Jump to post
by lightsaber
Tue Jun 30, 2020 2:43 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: CARES Act Aid Extension for Airlines
Replies: 83
Views: 8660

Re: CARES Act Aid Extension for Airlines

My belief is that we will look back at these summer 2020 days as the 'best of times' with respect to the arch of this pandemic and its ramifications. 50% or more of the members of this forum will have lost their job, their house, their health insurance, their retirement plan, or all the above, by s...

Jump to post
by lightsaber
Tue Jun 30, 2020 2:23 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Norwegian Air Cancels Orders For 92 737 MAXs and 5 787s
Replies: 126
Views: 23166

Re: Norwegian Air Cancels Orders For 92 737 MAXs and 5 787s

This is an incredible shock. Said no a.netter ever. Yea, that is my thought too. Norwegian will have to wiggle out of the Airbus orders too, but others already noted the MAX grounding made getting out of that easy. I'm less bearish on Norwegian surviving than many, but the fast growth is over for t...

Jump to post
by lightsaber
Mon Jun 29, 2020 1:31 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020
Replies: 1289
Views: 244274

Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

777-9 N779XW on another test flight BFI-BFI as BOE1. This is the first flight on a Sunday. https://flightaware.com/live/flight/BOE1 Interesting, do you think that has any significance with regards to getting the certification completed ASAP i.e. customers pushing even during the current crisis? Fre...

Jump to post
by lightsaber
Mon Jun 29, 2020 1:14 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Airbus A330neo Production/Delivery Thread - 2020
Replies: 100
Views: 28202

Re: Airbus A330neo Production/Delivery Thread - 2020

Does this help? https://aibfamily.flights/search?a330_hide_ceo=true&flight_activity=Delivery+Flight&family=A330 Nice resource. Last delivery flight I found was 2/28. The one before on 2/14 and then 1/17. So as of tomorrow, 4 months since last A330NEO delivery. Lightsaber Ps (late edit): At ...

Jump to post
by lightsaber
Mon Jun 29, 2020 1:08 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: 777 Retirement/Scrapping Thread - 2020
Replies: 91
Views: 20848

Re: 777 Retirement/Scrapping Thread - 2020

Just for clarity, post production/delivery related flights here: https://www.airliners.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1437927 We have several retirement/scrapping threads and these threads are for removal from service. For the 777-300ERSF related items, as planes going for conversion are not reti...

Jump to post
by lightsaber
Sat Jun 27, 2020 5:05 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Delta plans to emerge a "smaller" carrier
Replies: 1514
Views: 259744

Re: Delta plans to emerge a "smaller" carrier

According to the pilot forums and some friends at Delta, 2558 pilot furlough notice to be sent out next week. A sad announcement to hear. They also a said they hope to reach an agreement that would result in a 2 year no-furlough commitment. It’s a bit of a bargaining tactic at this point. Carrying ...

Jump to post
by lightsaber
Sat Jun 27, 2020 3:49 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Airbus A330neo Production/Delivery Thread - 2020
Replies: 100
Views: 28202

Re: Airbus A330neo Production/Delivery Thread - 2020

White fuselage can also be a sign of long term storage conditions. When was the last A339 delivered? I see much discussion on movements. When was the last A330NEO was delivered? Lightsaber Does this help? https://aibfamily.flights/search?a330_hide_ceo=true&flight_activity=Delivery+Flight&fa...

Jump to post
by lightsaber
Fri Jun 26, 2020 11:48 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Airbus A330neo Production/Delivery Thread - 2020
Replies: 100
Views: 28202

Re: Airbus A330neo Production/Delivery Thread - 2020

Is that one for AirAsia X Malaysia? DOesn't have a Thai flag on the tail like the rest of Thai AirAsia's fleet. The white fuselage is a clear sign that this aircraft will be a NTU. White fuselage can also be a sign of long term storage conditions. When was the last A339 delivered? I see much discus...

Jump to post
by lightsaber
Fri Jun 26, 2020 11:37 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Air France A380 retirement/parking thread
Replies: 483
Views: 60346

Re: Air France A380 retirement/parking thread

Do we know the eventual fate of their A380s apart from storage? Any chance that any of them will see a second life with another operation, or is it certain that all of them will be scrapped? The second hand market is a grand total of one, to FlyDubai. This aircraft was leased on a power by the hour...

Jump to post
by lightsaber
Fri Jun 26, 2020 5:27 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Air France A380 retirement/parking thread
Replies: 483
Views: 60346

Re: Air France A380 retirement/parking thread

Do we know the eventual fate of their A380s apart from storage? Any chance that any of them will see a second life with another operation, or is it certain that all of them will be scrapped? The second hand market is a grand total of one, to FlyDubai. This aircraft was leased on a power by the hour...

Jump to post
by lightsaber
Fri Jun 26, 2020 5:21 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Official: Emirates to consider smaller aircraft
Replies: 40
Views: 8641

Re: Official: Emirates to consider adding narrow body aircraft

As I said in the deleted thread, at this point it would just make more sense to merge FlyDubai and Emirates. FlyDubai already has a full service hard product, at least on the Maxes. Unsure what their soft product is like but that obviously could be changed. That sums it up. FlyDubai is the regional...

Jump to post
by lightsaber
Fri Jun 26, 2020 3:39 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Rumour: Emirates to decommission 40% of A380 fleet
Replies: 348
Views: 69770

Re: Rumour: Emirates to decommission 40% of A380 fleet

Responding to Olle: The lease companies are about to be burned by everyone. If the ME3 abide by the contracts, the lease companies will happily do business with them again on new contracts. But the lease companies are in trouble. Indigo plans to return 120 A320CEO over 2 years, per contract. SpiceJe...

Jump to post
by lightsaber
Thu Jun 25, 2020 10:01 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Vienna Airport to exempt landing charge and subsidise departing passengers
Replies: 8
Views: 1599

Re: Vienna Airport to exempt landing charge and subsidise departing passengers

This is a fair way to maintain traffic. I rather like it compared to other schemes.

Lightsaber

Jump to post
by lightsaber
Thu Jun 25, 2020 9:53 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: BA could make up to 12,000 employees redundant
Replies: 309
Views: 56294

Re: BA could make up to 12,000 employees redundant

A major cut in employee wages across the economy is unlikely to stimulate demand for long haul flights. People will either not have the money, or will be reluctant to spend. I do not think this is to stimulate demand, I think it is to be closer to break even so that more flights can be offered. Sad...

Jump to post
by lightsaber
Thu Jun 25, 2020 3:44 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Lufthansa Cargo considers retiring all MD-11s in 2020
Replies: 159
Views: 38426

Re: Lufthansa Cargo considers retiring all MD-11s in 2020

I'm not surprised. The subfleet is now too small to pay for the costs of keeping the type. A shame as I always liked the MD-11.

Lightsaber

Jump to post
by lightsaber
Thu Jun 25, 2020 12:31 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Why have DL's A320-200s not been retired?
Replies: 126
Views: 21365

Re: Why have DL's A320-200s not been retired?

CarbonFibre wrote:
Why does the title say A320-200 ? They don't have any -100s after all.

Implies CEOs or older aircraft. It also makes it clear it is a model and not the A320 family such as the new A321s.

Lightsaber

Jump to post
by lightsaber
Thu Jun 25, 2020 1:50 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Qantas to sack 6000 employees, ground 100 aircraft until mid 2021, retires 747 fleet early
Replies: 79
Views: 13867

Re: Qantas to sack 6000 employees, ground 100 aircraft until mid 2021, retires 747 fleet early

I feel for anyone looking for work now. Words are inadequate. I cannot help but notice every recovery plan includes returning aircraft to leasors or retiring aircraft. This will be brutal on prior generation resale values, drop the price of stock for freighter conversions, and drop the pricing of us...

Jump to post
by lightsaber
Thu Jun 25, 2020 1:20 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Volga-Dnepr suing Boeing over freighters it couldnt commit to but now wants
Replies: 42
Views: 11432

Re: Volga-Dnepr suing Boeing over freighters it couldnt commit to but now wants

Thanks, Stitch, for the great detective work! Yes, they are storing them in the same warehouse as the 757 tooling! :biggrin: Seriously, we now have warehouses somewhere with as many as 6 747-8Fs worth of spare parts, the major tooling to make more 747s, and the legendary 757 tooling as well. The ac...

Jump to post
by lightsaber
Wed Jun 24, 2020 9:12 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Allegiant News and Discussion Thread - 2020
Replies: 221
Views: 29323

Re: Allegiant News and Discussion Thread - 2020

http://ir.allegiantair.com/static-files/4863c7ea-44ab-4be7-be18-6b26dd129677 "Our economic justification for flying flights was based on the flight contributing positively to our cash balances, namely covering the direct expenses of fuel and airport costs" "In the coming months we ex...

Jump to post
by lightsaber
Wed Jun 24, 2020 8:54 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Updated: Mitsubishi sets June 1st date for acquisition of CRJ program
Replies: 51
Views: 10025

Re: Updated: Mitsubishi sets June 1st date for acquisition of CRJ program

The Triumph audit gives some hope the M100 can be sold on a reasonable 86,000 lb. Yes, but how many M100 units would Mitsubishi need to sell to break even at this point? Would this be possible without bankrupting the company? In 2011 the whole MRJ program was estimated around ¥200 billion and would...

Jump to post
by lightsaber
Wed Jun 24, 2020 1:57 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Turkish Aviation June 2020
Replies: 197
Views: 20660

Re: Turkish Aviation June 2020

:confused: :confused: All the runways are wholly independent. Don't confuse the adjacent narrower taxiways which can serve as backup runway if needed. (such as at LGW and other airports do) So they never plan on using more than 3 runways? Kind of setting the bar low. Why build 5 runways and then on...

Jump to post
by lightsaber
Wed Jun 24, 2020 1:27 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: DOT now goes after India for impairing U.S airline rights
Replies: 54
Views: 6353

Re: DOT now goes after India for impairing U.S airline rights

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EbMRT7gVAAA ... name=small

Translation, India was caught, but is trying to delay competition restarting service.

Lightsaber
-->

LAXintl wrote:
Statement by Indian Ministry of Civil Aviation

Image

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EbMRT7gVAAA ... name=small

Translation, India was caught, but is trying to delay competition restarting service.

Lightsaber

Jump to post
by lightsaber
Wed Jun 24, 2020 1:22 pm
Forum: Travel, Polls & Preferences
Topic: Opinion: Launch a Super Lean NB for US Civil Aerospace Now.
Replies: 24
Views: 2471

Re: Opinion: Launch a Super Lean NB for US Civil Aerospace Now.

This size is too small. We'd need like around 150 to 250 seats. Add a few more seats and give it 5-6,000 miles range. It would be great for the middle of the market and probably sell by the thousand. :wink2: Perhaps 7-across seating? The small narrowbody market is a bloodbath between Mitsubishi, Em...

Jump to post
by lightsaber
Wed Jun 24, 2020 1:19 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Reports: LH might let SN file for bankruptcy
Replies: 133
Views: 23036

Re: Reports: LH might let SN file for bankruptcy

SN was losing money over its lifetime even before the involvement of LH, and on time performance and loadfactors have never been good. Ah, the generalisations of the internet... The airline has been profitable 3 of the last 5 years, despite getting hit extremely hard by a deadly terror attack on it...

Jump to post
by lightsaber
Wed Jun 24, 2020 1:02 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Qatar CEO: no new Airbus or Boeing deliveries until 2022
Replies: 103
Views: 17628

Re: Qatar Airways to retire entire 777 fleet

The second hand market will be flooded, no? Understatement. The 777-300ER second hand market just took a step down in value. We should expect other airlines not to renew leases too. e.g., EK is doing some lease returns. The timing of the 777-300ERSF is looking more and more brilliant. No one should...

Jump to post
by lightsaber
Wed Jun 24, 2020 1:01 am
Forum: Technical/Operations
Topic: What would it take to revive an aircraft stored at a museum?
Replies: 15
Views: 2109

Re: What would it take to revive an aircraft stored at a museum?

Could somebody with no connections to either Airbus, BAC or Aérospatiale apply for a new type certificate? If applying for a new type certificate it would need to meet current regulatory requirements which would mean significant design changes. I don’t think the engines would meet current noise req...

Jump to post