Search found 238 matches

by dennypayne
Fri Aug 16, 2019 10:24 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: US customs outage
Replies: 9
Views: 2424

Re: US customs outage

I just waited over an hour at DFW, and it would have been much longer if Mobile Passport hadn't come back online. There were probably 2000 people in line, it went all the way to the back of the hall that leads to the main processing area. Zero people explaining what was going on. Sent from my SM-G95...

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by dennypayne
Sat Aug 10, 2019 3:19 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Bird Logos on Asian Airlines
Replies: 54
Views: 6121

Re: Bird Logos on Asian Airlines

Ziyulu wrote:
Was United's tulip supposed to represent the wings of a certain bird?
No it's just two intertwined U's (intertwined aka 'United'). It's not even really supposed to be a tulip, it just happens to look like one.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

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by dennypayne
Fri Jul 12, 2019 3:55 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Delta announces MD-90 retirement deadline - end 2022
Replies: 102
Views: 13258

Re: Delta announces MD-90 retirement deadline - end 2022

It has been done in ATL for two years now. I don't see that as a reason to keep the 717 after the MD88/90 are gone. We need the shop space for more profitable engines(GTF). The 717 is going to be a real orphan once the other T tails are gone. The airframe parts supply will get real thin. It's hard ...

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by dennypayne
Tue Jul 09, 2019 1:08 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Updated: Aeroflot 1492 SSJ100 fire at Moscow (SVO) - 40+ confirmed dead
Replies: 818
Views: 142278

Re: Updated: Aeroflot 1492 SSJ100 fire at Moscow (SVO) - 40+ confirmed dead

I was reading Airliner World for June 2011 and found this quote; ‘It is reasonably easy to control and I was really impressed and greatly appreciated it’s cockpit layout’ It is from Eugene Voronin, chief of the Aeroflot SSJ100 Pilots Team. He was apparently a Trainer and therefore going to be more ...

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by dennypayne
Mon Jul 08, 2019 10:32 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: MAX in service at MIA? Is it possible?
Replies: 8
Views: 2877

Re: MAX in service at MIA? Is it possible?

At first I couldn’t believe but the winglets were definitely Max. I am certain that these were just 738s with split scimitar winglets. They can look quite similar, although there are a few key differences. The MAX most certainly remains grounded worldwide. Exactly - the Max winglets and split scimi...

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by dennypayne
Thu Jul 04, 2019 2:31 pm
Forum: Travel, Polls & Preferences
Topic: Anyone flown all of a large fleet?
Replies: 16
Views: 993

Re: Anyone flown all of a large fleet?

At one point many years ago, I had managed to fly the entire VS fleet and the LAS based National, but neither of those are what I would call large. I flew with four out of TG’s six A380s. While they are (very) „large“ aircraft, the fleet is not large. The OP defined >40 as large :-( Eh, it's still ...

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by dennypayne
Wed Jul 03, 2019 2:01 pm
Forum: Travel, Polls & Preferences
Topic: Your 2019 Booked/Flown Flights List
Replies: 236
Views: 32343

Re: Your 2019 Booked/Flown Flights List

Flown so far: TYS-LGA YX4359 2019-02-20 Embraer E175 (N133HQ) AA New Colors JFK-SVO SU101 2019-02-20 Airbus A330-300 (VQ-BEL Ф. Тютчев / F. Tyutchev) SVO-DXB SU526 2019-02-21 Boeing 737-800 (VP-BKK М. Ботвинник / M. Botvinnik) DXB-NBO KQ305 2019-02-23 Boeing 737-800 (5Y-CYB) My first flight to Afric...

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by dennypayne
Wed Jul 03, 2019 12:48 pm
Forum: Travel, Polls & Preferences
Topic: Anyone flown all of a large fleet?
Replies: 16
Views: 993

Re: Anyone flown all of a large fleet?

Cubsrule wrote:
Maybe it would have been possible on WN 732s in Texas toward the end?


I got a fair amount of those, but nowhere near all of them. I consider myself lucky that I did fly the only one in Canyon colors though (N96SW) :biggrin:

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by dennypayne
Tue Jul 02, 2019 7:26 pm
Forum: Travel, Polls & Preferences
Topic: Anyone flown all of a large fleet?
Replies: 16
Views: 993

Anyone flown all of a large fleet?

With the imminent retirement of American's MD-80's, I ran some statistics the other day on how many of them I've been on, since I have logged 519 total flights on them over the years. My logs are not complete unfortunately - I'm missing the registration for 57 of those flights due to poor record-kee...

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by dennypayne
Thu Jun 27, 2019 4:32 pm
Forum: Technical/Operations
Topic: Why did DL remove Winglets on some of their 757 fleet?
Replies: 17
Views: 4804

Re: Why did DL remove Winglets on some of their 757 fleet?

So its actually removed or just not installed? Removed I believe for all of them. There were two 757 that were still in the DL passenger fleet that never had winglets installed. There were existing wing repairs that made them not eligible for the winglet mod do to the increased stress from the wing...

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by dennypayne
Tue Jun 25, 2019 2:04 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Boeing 737MAX Grounded Worldwide Q2 2019
Replies: 3768
Views: 385195

Re: AA: MAX May Not Fly Until European Regulators Approve It

planecane wrote:
Did this really require another thread? This was posted by me in the MAX grounding thread many hours ago.


Giant threads like that are useless for actual news since they are so polluted by bickering. I don't even bother reading them anymore when they get that big.

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by dennypayne
Sun Jun 23, 2019 12:29 pm
Forum: Technical/Operations
Topic: Natural Gas and Aviation
Replies: 12
Views: 1461

Re: Natural Gas and Aviation

I didn't know about this until the other day when the author Charles Kennedy did a presentation on the Tu-154 at the Airliners International show, but the Soviets created an experimental Tu-155 that flew on liquid natural gas and liquid hydrogen. They had to convert most of the passenger cabin behin...

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by dennypayne
Sat Jun 15, 2019 3:44 am
Forum: Travel, Polls & Preferences
Topic: Airline types that are/were only ever operated by a single airline
Replies: 51
Views: 4847

Re: Airline types that are/were only ever operated by a single airline

Phosphorus wrote:
An-28 is another interesting case -- it was operated by multiple militaries (USSR, GDR, Bulgaria, etc.), but also by only one airline -- Aeroflot.


Nope, it's also operated by SILA (Siberian Light Aviation) out of Irkutsk. I flew on one about 6 months ago.


Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

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by dennypayne
Thu Jun 06, 2019 10:34 pm
Forum: Technical/Operations
Topic: Pilot Expense Policies
Replies: 36
Views: 4556

Re: Pilot Expense Policies

e38 wrote:
The hotels are generally very nice--Sheraton, Westin, Hilton, Doubletree, Hyatt, Crown Plaza, etc.


Do crews get to accrue and keep any hotel loyalty points from these stays?



Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

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by dennypayne
Mon May 20, 2019 10:59 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: DFW Announces Terminal F Plans & C Renovations
Replies: 82
Views: 9615

Re: DFW Announces Terminal F Plans & C Renovations

O&D pax get the shaft though. If you check bags and parked, you're stuck schlepping your bags to a bus to get back to your car. Eh, just do what I used to do: don't exit security where you arrive, take the Skylink back to the terminal where you parked, drive back over to your arrival terminal, ...

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by dennypayne
Mon May 20, 2019 3:41 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Updated: Aeroflot 1492 SSJ100 fire at Moscow (SVO) - 40+ confirmed dead
Replies: 818
Views: 142278

Re: Updated: Aeroflot 1492 SSJ100 fire at Moscow (SVO) - 40+ confirmed dead

The videos of the landing I’ve seen suggests to me that the spoilers never deployed, for whatever reason, and a porpoising/worsening bounce developed. From the Avherald article linked about 4 posts ago, the preliminary report states: The spoilers did not deploy, in DIRECT MODE they are not permitte...

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by dennypayne
Wed May 15, 2019 11:10 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: What (Not) to Say When Interviewing to Be a Flight Attendant
Replies: 56
Views: 11153

Re: What (Not) to Say When Interviewing to Be a Flight Attendant

A candidate should be asking half the questions? Is this for real? Who knows, maybe it works this way in other industries. Certainly not mine. Perhaps not half, but if a person I'm interviewing doesn't ask at least a few insightful questions, I rank them lower than those who do. Good questions show...

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by dennypayne
Wed May 15, 2019 4:53 pm
Forum: Technical/Operations
Topic: Engine failure question
Replies: 46
Views: 4179

Re: Engine failure question

If you have a double engine failure, you don't really have too many options at that point since the only way you're going is down. The few double engine failures I can think of off the top of my head are Air Canada 143, Air Transat 236, Ethiopian 961, Taca 110, and US Air 1549. Southern 242 is on t...

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by dennypayne
Tue May 14, 2019 2:56 am
Forum: Technical/Operations
Topic: Wide bodies operating into LGA anymore ?
Replies: 10
Views: 2894

Re: Wide bodies operating into LGA anymore ?

The B764 was flown into LGA on the regular after it's inital launch with Delta as it had been planned as a direct L-1011 replacement and it's wing size fit into code D & group IV gates (170.6-171' max). Delta has now reconfigured the B764 for international operations. Yes, my stepdad's word for...

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by dennypayne
Tue May 14, 2019 2:30 am
Forum: Travel, Polls & Preferences
Topic: Percentage of the world connected by one-stop flights?
Replies: 1
Views: 838

Re: Percentage of the world connected by one-stop flights?

Assuming that by 'percentage of the world' you actually mean 'percentage of airports with active commercial service,' then 100% of them are connected by a nonstop flight to somewhere. Beyond that, you're going to have to define the question a little more meaningfully. 'Any given city' could change t...

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by dennypayne
Thu May 09, 2019 7:36 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: American Airlines Admits It Has No Brand Purpose
Replies: 104
Views: 22151

Re: American Airlines Admits It Has No Brand Purpose

I'm not sure if it has something to do with the number of baggage handlers per flight, or priority given to connecting bags, or some combination of the two, but at any AA hub airport your bags will NEVER beat you to the carousel. And it's pretty awful at outstations, too - last year I stood in fron...

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by dennypayne
Thu May 09, 2019 4:59 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: American Airlines Admits It Has No Brand Purpose
Replies: 104
Views: 22151

Re: American Airlines Admits It Has No Brand Purpose

I'll be happy when I get my bags from AA in less than 40-45 minutes after arriving at DFW. This was a constant gripe for me when I lived there. DL guarantees 20 minutes, and they generally beat that by about 50%. AA is losing what it takes to survive because they are misguided. And while they seem ...

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by dennypayne
Tue May 07, 2019 3:18 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Updated: Aeroflot 1492 SSJ100 fire at Moscow (SVO) - 40+ confirmed dead
Replies: 818
Views: 142278

Re: Updated: Aeroflot 1492 SSJ100 fire at Moscow (SVO) - 40+ confirmed dead

He survived and gave interview, its on Russian, but google translate usually works well Here is his interview https://v1.ru/text/gorod/66079222/ If you folks would read this interview, an actual survivor states that the luggage issue did not happen. The fact that the evacuation was inhibited by tho...

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by dennypayne
Sun May 05, 2019 4:09 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: United Airlines "Evolution" to Globe Livery released
Replies: 1785
Views: 359581

Re: United Airlines "Evolution" to Globe Livery released

It looks much better in person. It's interesting, because pretty much everyone knows that a photograph hardly ever captures the true look of anything compared to seeing it in person, yet we all tend to make our judgements on new liveries here without also seeing them in person. I felt this way when...

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by dennypayne
Tue Apr 30, 2019 3:16 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: LOT News Thread - 2019
Replies: 578
Views: 72384

Re: LOT News Thread - 2019

LO must be down significant Dreamliners to have to extend the KF lease until late September. Now OO-ABD will be doing WAW-JFK, WAW-EWR, and RZE-EWR. https://twitter.com/Airlineroute/status/1121940280469413888 I always wonder why the leased metal from European airlines often ends up going to JFK or ...

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by dennypayne
Thu Apr 25, 2019 10:20 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: United Fleet Repaint Thread
Replies: 40
Views: 6870

Re: United Fleet Repaint Thread

With the MAX fleet not going anywhere soon you'd think it would be a good time to get started on those! Considering they are essentially new aircraft, I could see them *not* doing this because it would be more financially prudent to wait until they needed new paint. I really hope this doesn't take ...

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by dennypayne
Thu Apr 25, 2019 8:28 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: United Airlines "Evolution" to Globe Livery released
Replies: 1785
Views: 359581

Re: United Airlines "Evolution" to Globe Livery released

Just curious, does UA need approval from Boeing to eventually use that cheatline on aircraft other than Boeing? A) I don't think you can call that a cheatline - that is commonly understood to be a horizontal stripe over or below the windows. https://www.airliners.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=246599 B)...

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by dennypayne
Thu Apr 25, 2019 4:18 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: United Airlines "Evolution" to Globe Livery released
Replies: 1785
Views: 359581

Re: United Airlines "Evolution" to Globe Livery released

Why they chose the deep blue for the curvy cheatline is lost on me. Should have been the United blue. I do not think it harmonizes well with the sapphire or light blues of the tail / nacelles / winglets. Or better yet, keep the damn thing gold. Agreed that the Rhapsody Blue doesn't really work on t...

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by dennypayne
Wed Apr 24, 2019 3:41 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: United Airlines "Evolution" to Globe Livery released
Replies: 1785
Views: 359581

Re: United Airlines "Evolution" to Globe Livery released

I don't hate it, the tail looks great, but I'm not sure about the color of the wave. I think if it was the same blue as the titles and engines, it would be too "matchy," but the black/navy stands out strangely as well. I think maybe the light blue like the inside of the globe would have be...

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by dennypayne
Wed Apr 24, 2019 3:00 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Insults between controller and pilot after near miss
Replies: 83
Views: 20415

Re: Insults between controller and pilot after runway incursion

On that note, I’ll be the dumb requisite American who thinks the world revolves around us but I was under the presumption all ATC chatter was supposed to be in English worldwide. Is that not correct? As others have noted, in a fair amount of areas, local airlines and ATC will speak the local langua...

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by dennypayne
Sun Apr 21, 2019 2:01 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Boeing' s Trouble: Claims of Shoddy Production Draw Scrutiny to a Second Boeing Jet
Replies: 117
Views: 25924

Re: Boeing' s Trouble: Claims of Shoddy Production Draw Scrutiny to a Second Boeing Jet

And this is why McDonnell-Douglas should have been bailed out and restructured, not allowed to get bought. Yeah, because McDonnell Douglas has such a reputation for building a safe aircraft with no issues that would lead to a grounding.... :roll: If you're trying to tar McDonnell Douglas with the g...

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by dennypayne
Thu Apr 18, 2019 4:39 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Effect of MAX Grounding on Airlines without 737NG (AC, FI)
Replies: 41
Views: 10241

Re: Effect of MAX Grounding on Airlines without 737NG (AC, FI)

From what I understand, carriers that operate the NG and the MAX can just roster pilots on the NG due to the common type certificate, but AC and FI cannot move their MAX pilots to other fleets without re-training them and making them lose their MAX certifications. Just a point of clarification here...

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by dennypayne
Tue Apr 16, 2019 10:46 pm
Forum: Site Related
Topic: Throwing all subtopics on a big, chaotic heap with x00.000 views, 1000 posts . Centralizing..
Replies: 27
Views: 3373

Re: Throwing all subtopics on a big, chaotic heap with x00.000 views, 1000 posts . Centralizing..

I am sorry. When threads get to 5K and weeks old I lose interest in engaging or even reading. These monster threads are unbelievably complex. I vote to return to at least some subdivision threads. I can't believe the majority of the community likes these Godzillas. And lately, some of these monster...

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by dennypayne
Sat Apr 13, 2019 4:18 am
Forum: Technical/Operations
Topic: De-rating a CFM56?
Replies: 14
Views: 3290

Re: De-rating a CFM56?

Can someone please explain why a manufacturer would charge less for a derated engine if it's simply a plug change? Would it have to do with power-by-the-hour setups where the engine would presumably last longer between overhauls if it wasn't operated at full rated power? Sent from my SM-G950U using ...

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by dennypayne
Sat Apr 13, 2019 3:41 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: B737MAX Grounded Worldwide Q1 2019
Replies: 6472
Views: 716027

Re: B737MAX Grounded Worldwide

FWIW I booked a WN flight a few days ago for June 9 that was scheduled to be on a MAX. So far, the schedule remains the same in my Trip Details page, but it doesn't list a type like it did on the reservation. EDIT: I started a new reservation just to see, and it is now showing a 738. So they've man...

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by dennypayne
Fri Apr 12, 2019 8:55 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: B737MAX Grounded Worldwide Q1 2019
Replies: 6472
Views: 716027

Re: B737MAX Grounded Worldwide

Southwest not planning any Max8 flights till august 5! Maybe they know something lots of people here dont, or can't stomach the thought of. https://www.dallasnews.com/business/southwest-airlines/2019/04/11/southwest-pulls-max-aug-5-forcing-passengers-adjust-summer-travel Or maybe they know nothing ...

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by dennypayne
Fri Apr 12, 2019 4:49 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Delta announces reduction in recline on A320 fleet
Replies: 176
Views: 20688

Re: Major US carrier announces reduction in Recline

Why doesn't this surprise me. Citing customer comfort as the reason for giving you less how ironic. I don't find that reclining the seat makes it any more comfortable anyway, and I hate it when someone reclines into me. I welcome this change wholeheartedly. This will make me more inclined to buy up...

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by dennypayne
Thu Apr 04, 2019 3:36 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Ethiopian Airlines 737MAX crashes enroute to Nairobi Q1 2019
Replies: 5474
Views: 718177

Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737MAX crashes enroute to Nairobi

So the fact that an Ethiopian airline disputed the findings of a Lebanese accident investigation, means that the Ethiopian accident investigators can't be trusted to run a proper inquiry and write a proper report? That really is stretching things beyond credibility. It wasn't just the Ethiopian air...

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by dennypayne
Thu Apr 04, 2019 2:57 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: FlyArystan aircraft rendering
Replies: 14
Views: 1595

Re: FlyArystan aircraft rendering

Maybe they've grafted B-52 undercarriage to this one for easier ops into unimproved strips?

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by dennypayne
Thu Apr 04, 2019 2:53 pm
Forum: Travel, Polls & Preferences
Topic: Which group or travellers should airlines value more?
Replies: 10
Views: 1358

Re: Which group or travellers should airlines value more?

The answer is simple; WHOEVER PAYS MOST get valued MOST by airlines. Yep this is what it boils down to. Back in the early 2000's, I was Platinum on Continental due to my business travel. I was on a first-name basis with one of the agents at AUS because I was in and out so much. One day she was chec...

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by dennypayne
Thu Apr 04, 2019 2:29 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Ethiopian Airlines 737MAX crashes enroute to Nairobi Q1 2019
Replies: 5474
Views: 718177

Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737MAX crashes enroute to Nairobi

Please do tell: what have they done in the past with crash investigations? It's been mentioned at least 47 times on this thread that they refused to accept the rather straightforward conclusion of the investigation of ET409 - that poor airmanship was responsible for that crash, and the aircraft was...

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by dennypayne
Thu Apr 04, 2019 1:57 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Ethiopian Airlines 737MAX crashes enroute to Nairobi Q1 2019
Replies: 5474
Views: 718177

Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737MAX crashes enroute to Nairobi

It's a completely valid point considering what Ethiopia has done in the past with crash investigations. It would be foolish to be confident in them. Please do tell: what have they done in the past with crash investigations? It's been mentioned at least 47 times on this thread that they refused to a...

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by dennypayne
Wed Apr 03, 2019 2:36 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Ethiopian Airlines 737MAX crashes enroute to Nairobi Q1 2019
Replies: 5474
Views: 718177

Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737MAX crashes enroute to Nairobi

It's looking more and more to be the likely case. If so, then Boeing really messed up here by not amending the RUNAWAY TRIM NNC, which would have required additional sim training. I don't believe that they messed up. I suspect that this was entirely deliberate in an attempt to avoid $280m of contra...

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by dennypayne
Thu Mar 28, 2019 2:06 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Why Are Bus Boardings so Common in Europe and so Rare in the USA?
Replies: 188
Views: 21432

Re: Why Are Bus Boardings so Common in Europe and so Rare in the USA?

konkret wrote:
(Are there any airports where you can board an ATR or Q400 via a jetbridge?)


I used to see American Eagle ATR's boarded by jetbridge at DFW's Terminal B. Don't think I've ever seen any Q400's done that way though.

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by dennypayne
Wed Mar 27, 2019 8:18 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Why Are Bus Boardings so Common in Europe and so Rare in the USA?
Replies: 188
Views: 21432

Re: Why Are Bus Boardings so Common in Europe and so Rare in the USA?

Connecting flights. You're more likely to make it to your next flight if you disembark directly into the terminal. But then you would think it would be the other way around. The USA does not allow international arrivals to stay and connect airside, you have to clear immigration no matter what. :sha...

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by dennypayne
Wed Mar 27, 2019 4:08 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Why Are Bus Boardings so Common in Europe and so Rare in the USA?
Replies: 188
Views: 21432

Re: Why Are Bus Boardings so Common in Europe and so Rare in the USA?

I ... actually enjoy the trip around the apron looking at the planes, very cool! My feelings as well, I don't really care for the bus ride itself, especially after a long flight, but I like the chance to get out on the ramp for a few and getting a better view of all the aircraft around me. There's ...

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by dennypayne
Mon Mar 25, 2019 1:48 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Charter airlines to KEF - Summer 1990
Replies: 4
Views: 990

Re: Charter airlines to KEF - Summer 1990

Yea didn't ATA operate a large part of the military charters for the US military back then? IIRC they also used the L1011, but I think you'd be able to tell the difference between the 727 and that ;) Yes I'm certain it was a 3-3 narrowbody, and the L-1011 is my all-time favorite aircraft (had previ...

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by dennypayne
Mon Mar 25, 2019 12:58 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Ethiopian Airlines 737MAX crashes enroute to Nairobi Q1 2019
Replies: 5474
Views: 718177

Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737MAX crashes enroute to Nairobi

but to claim the MAX would have been 'unsafe' without MCAS is laughable. Is it? Given the handling characteristics near stall at high loads, the MAX would have been uncertifiable without MCAS. Which is a regime of flight you approach how often in a modern airliner? And you have data that shows what...

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by dennypayne
Mon Mar 25, 2019 4:31 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Ethiopian Airlines 737MAX crashes enroute to Nairobi Q1 2019
Replies: 5474
Views: 718177

Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737MAX crashes enroute to Nairobi

MCAS is needed to make the plane safe to fly You keep saying this as if the plane would fall out of the sky without this piece of software, which is ridiculous. All it was designed to do was to mimic the NG's behavior at high angles of attack where the bigger engine imparts more lift and hence more...

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by dennypayne
Mon Mar 25, 2019 2:23 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Charter airlines to KEF - Summer 1990
Replies: 4
Views: 990

Charter airlines to KEF - Summer 1990

Would anyone on here possibly recall which airline would have been running military charters to KEF from PHL in June or July 1990? We had a fuel stop in Gander each way, and I'm about 80% certain the equipment was 727's (-100 or -200 though, I'm not sure at all). We didn't use the terminal in KEF, w...

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