Anyone know why the 763 operating DL216 JFK-DSS turned around tonight? They were in the air for almost three hours. Looks like they have another airplane and are going to transfer all the passengers and bags and go.
https://flightaware.com/live/flight/DAL216
Interesting they’re still not bringing back some of the mid-cons out of SEA. Would’ve figured June would be when they’d resume. Maybe they will come back in July? If not... maybe not until 2022 if they don’t see the business demand returning. SEA demand falls dramatically come fall Edit: scratch th...
Jump to postIt's a little bit of both. On the pilot side, everything is great except for the 737 and A320 categories. The most understaffed fleet of all is the A220. The fleet parking is for lack of crews, so add that to the list. Add some spot categories as well (ATL 7ER B). Right. My point is that DL has alr...
Jump to postA 1985 schedule shows three flights at TOL. A 727-200 to CLE and 727-100 and -200 service to STL. Looks like the CLE flight turned back to TOL and overnighted there. Page 7 in the Skyliner: http://digital.shsmo.org/digital/collection/twa/id/8230 (lots of unusual L1011 flights in that schedule) It l...
Jump to postFlight attendants also have a keen perspective on turbulence, which is interesting to contrast with pilots. When flight attendants work, they are working in multiple places related to the center of gravity - forward of it, on it, and behind it. Therefore, they really get to feel how different parts ...
Jump to postI’d rather be home everyday than spend time away in hotels . . .Day trips all day every day... Not for me; I do not like day trips! (well, once in a while is ok). In my case, it is about a 45 - 60 minute drive to the airport from my home, and I don't want to do that frequently. (Yes, I know, many p...
Jump to postIs the cost to expand the runways more expensive than the cost of losing an aircraft? The simple answer there is yes... A way to think about it is that demand for aviation rises with real estate costs. Some of the most expensive real estate in the world is in places that also have huge airports and...
Jump to postCould they do digital in 1992 when they were shooting that? I guess they must have used digital editing for the fuselage. But it is still striking to me that they would think to cover up the organ pipe suppressors - as if they audience would have been like, "wait, is that a JT3C-6 powered bird...
Jump to postI’ll bet that that plane didn’t even have engines on it. The fuselage livery is obviously digital and the engines probably are too. Note the #1 engine turbo-compressor (EDIT: these planes had #1 turbo compressors) Could they do digital in 1992 when they were shooting that? I guess they must have us...
Jump to postTrailer clip, aircraft appears at 6 sec mark. Frezze frame https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8piqd2BWeGI Nice find - the 707 exploding is at about 2:08. Bizarrely it looks like the took the organ pipe suppressors off the engines put KC-135A exhausts on the engines. Trying to figure out why they would...
Jump to postI have never heard a non-fan 707 take off, and there aren't any videos around with real sound that I have seen. I had always hoped that it was one of these birds that would fly again. Your best bet would be to search for newsreels on YouTube (there are tons from Pathe) that show the first jet servi...
Jump to postYes, the USAF bought many used 707s in the 1980s/1990s to source spares for the KC135 program. There must have been plenty of frames available. The USAF would not have bought this one, it was a non-fan -131 (ex TWA). The Air Force used the vertical fins, fan engines and pylons to upgrade the J57 po...
Jump to postNever thought I'd say it, but the pandemic is making me miss days like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vlppnZOHB5M&ab_channel=VASAviation Best post of this thread! I couldn't agree more. One of the things I miss most during the pandemic is listening to Kennedy tower when they're down to o...
Jump to postAt the end of the day, Delta and airlines must be competitive in the marketplace with white-collar jobs that are incredibly transferable across industries. Airlines for a long time already have had difficulty competing for the best and brightest which has only gotten worse during this COVID downtur...
Jump to postAt the end of the day, Delta and airlines must be competitive in the marketplace with white-collar jobs that are incredibly transferable across industries. Airlines for a long time already have had difficulty competing for the best and brightest which has only gotten worse during this COVID downtur...
Jump to postMSP isn't a larger hub because what I would call the floating connecting hub model stopped working in the 1990s. After deregulation, some airlines established large hubs that relied primarily on connecting traffic and that were able to take advantage of economies of scale and a large aircraft gauge....
Jump to postAlso - was the Electra the only airplane that ever had the Regal Imperial Eagle on the tail? The Electras only had it for a while in the late-50s and early-60s, but it shows how committed they were to that brand in all parts of the operation including domestic, as the Electra never flew to Asia.
Jump to postI flew in F on a 747-100 on MSP-HNL in 1990. The seats were still exactly the same as those shown in the videos above, and still had Regal Imperial logos on them. I believe the Regal Imperial Service references were gone - or at least just about to be gone - as, obviously, imperialism was no longer ...
Jump to postIsn’t this what happened to that UA 747? An electrical malfunction led the door to open and blown off? The major difference in accident sequence is that the UA 747 was climbing through 22,000 when the cargo door blew open. During a high-speed, high-altitude climb, the structural trauma to the airfr...
Jump to postWith money this cheap they have got to find a way to make this project go. Like others have said, money and construction will get more expensive in a recovery. The other thing to think about is that infrastructure is probably the only place we might see bipartisan coalition in Washington. For the Tr...
Jump to postOf course it is better to divert than crash the plane. I just think a double diversion indicates they probably should have been more conservative on the 2nd attempt. To the contrary, the diversions indicate they were appropriately conservative on both attempts IMO. An accident or incident on the la...
Jump to postthat's bull. Watch the battle for Eastern video. The IAM, and Bryan, were doing their job. I'm going to take a wild guess that you wouldn't happily vote for huge pay cuts (IIRC over 50%) or vote for your job to be outsourced right? Why do you expect the IAM to do so? Lorenzo and Borman killed Easte...
Jump to postATL had been a EA hub for years, going back into the ‘50s. Pax count was mostly neck and neck between EA and DL. DL had A and half of B concourse, EA had the other half of B and C concourse. EA even had a dedicated tunnel between B and C. You make a good point in that Eastern had the foundation of ...
Jump to postEastern made of ATL a major hub. It was their second largest hub, first was MIA. But didn't they also build a mini hub in MCI to help build up more connections towards the West? That was their mid-con hub, although not a major hub. Yep, that is all correct. They basically tried to make Atlanta (and...
Jump to postInteresting take. I think Rickenbacker has a mixed legacy in the annuals of air transport history. While lauded (and rightfully so) for his veritable single-handed guidance of EA from its formative years, EA was viewed in a rather utilitarian prism with regard to the passenger experience. Comprised...
Jump to postThe first question is why did Pan Am not just serve MSP and ATL directly. The answer is very simple: in pre-deregulation times, PA did not have domestic traffic rights, as it was an international-only airline. I think the question may have been why Pan Am didn't fly MSP-LHR and ATL-LHR (non-stop), ...
Jump to postI lived in Detroit through all the 60's/70's and half way through the 80's and I was an aviation geek from an early age. I never recall PA equipment operating between MSP and DTW. It had to have been NW equipment used on that interchange. Later after deregulation for a short period of time, The DTW...
Jump to postThe L-1011 was not a thru flight to LHR from DTW. Flight 554 operated MSP-DTW-JFK and then terminated there. For a time Pan Am operated the L-1011 on the IND-DTW-JFK route. So that's why you only see BA operating the DTW-LHR flight. In 1986 Pan Am opened up direct flights to LHR again operating fli...
Jump to postGreat topic and it got me interested in PA's MSP service. As a kid, I took quite a few pictures of Pan Am's L-1011-500s at MSP. It would have been in the 1982-1984 time window. The airplane came in from DTW at 9:15pm, overnighted, and then departed as PA 554 to DTW around 11:00am. Here is what the o...
Jump to postYep..... 2021 long-haul isn't going to be materially better than 2020 for most of the year. Peak summer TATL isn't happen For a while I thought we might see some peak summer 2021 recovery. But with the various mutations that are appearing (the South African, British, and Brazilian strains, for exam...
Jump to postYou didn't post the article, but I found it. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-airlines-breakingv-idUKKBN2991JV It is all speculation at this point provided the government doesn't give them more money or travel doesn't pick up, the author states as such. Especially since the las...
Jump to postAir Afrique BMI Monarch Sabena Swissair I'm surprised there haven't been more Air Afrique votes! Iconic color scheme, and a cool symbol of West African decolonization and independence. They had a hugely varied fleet, from heavy piston types to widebodies, and had a very strong safety record (the on...
Jump to postI'd say in terms of overall brand strength and impact on the part of the industry where they operated, I would say:
1. Pan Am
2. TWA
3. VARIG
4. Braniff
5. Air Afrique
Honorable mentions: Sabena, Ecuatoriana
I think the big wild card is the North Atlantic summer '21 high season. With a reasonably effective vaccine roll out, I think there is a chance that you might see at least some of the typical summer rush between Canada/the US and Europe. There is good money in those markets for the airlines, and I t...
Jump to postAlso just some follow-up on where these airplanes went. As other posters said, the -351B combis left the fleet pretty early, and went to Cathay Pacific in 1971. And as people also noted above, the arrival of many widebodies made narrow bodies with cargo doors less necessary, as the heavies could car...
Jump to postI love this thread. So much good info! The one question I still have is how they flew two different configurations - on F/Y and one Y - during the year or so that they only had five 707s, all of which were 707-351B(SCD)s. See my post above for the schedule links. My guess is that on HNL-SEA and ANC-...
Jump to postThere is very little reason for DL to be short-staffed when they haven't furloughed any pilots and you have qualified ones sitting at home getting paid. Displacements or not, there should be plenty of crew and aircraft to go around given the drastically reduced frequencies over last year. Re-traini...
Jump to postA little digging on the Northwest Airlines History Center found this - it was listed as showing the cabin of a 720B, but it seems to be consistent with the odd ball -351B forward layout? https://i1.wp.com/northwestairlineshistory.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/NWA_720B_interior_1961_publicity_NWAHC...
Jump to postOn most of the combi versions, the freight was carried in the forward left half of the A and B zone and the passenger seats were laid out on the right side of the A and B zone. I cannot recall how many first class seats were in this zone, but there weren’t many. As I recall the girls had a small ga...
Jump to postThis is a real stumper. The five original 707-351B (SCD) aircraft replaced the DC-8s on the transpacific operation starting in the summer of 1963. As you can see in the link below, they operated in an F/Y configuration. I recall hearing that the first class passengers sat on the starboard side of th...
Jump to postInterestingly on the DL operations, of the Mexico trips that were headed in for a 1830ish arrival, SJD and CUN made it in with about 30 minutes of holding. PVR diverted to Detroit! Most impressive arrival is an Atlas 747-400 from SDF. I'm guessing they were pretty heavy for landing giving that it is...
Jump to postFresh fish is a big and lucrative air cargo business. I think the Alaska salmon market is particularly interesting. During the salmon harvest in the summer, a lot of old aircraft that are large but that can land on gravel air strips haul salmon from outlying airports back to FAI and ANC where it can...
Jump to postLooks like Delta pulled the plug about 1630. The last outbound looks to be the 767-300ER to AMS, and other than that, a 739 for MCO pushed at 1630 and is awaiting takeoff. On the arrivals side, an A321 from DEN landed at 1546, and that was the last one. The only exceptions are the Mexico turns - PVR...
Jump to postLast week actual; Wed 12/16 A221 SLC-SBD 8103 N103DU 9960 (ferry to storage) Wed 12/16 A221 SLC-SBD 8128 N128DU 9961 (ferry to storage) Wed 12/16 A221 SLC-SBD 8122 N122DU 9962 (ferry to storage) PSU.DTW.SCE, thank you as always for keeping us up to date! As far as these A221s go, are these getting ...
Jump to postFor the people outraged that the flight wasn't terminated in MSY and the a/c, crew and passengers immediately quarantined... What, exactly, is the solution there? Who's paying for the 11 day hotel stay for all the pax? At that point, the exposure (albeit minimal) has occurred. Just finish the fligh...
Jump to postCould curfews in TYO have been an issue? I wondered that, but that wouldn't explain why on several days, the outbound from Tokyo left at 1030 or 1100. There was no outbound earlier than 0800. Usually if you are waiting for curfew to lift you can go out at 0600. Northwest always had 5th freedom righ...
Jump to postJust looking through some old Northwest timetables, and came across a scheduling issue that I cannot understand. In the early 1960s, Northwest had a very long, nearly 12-hour connection on transpacific flights in Tokyo. This was true both when these were combination DC-8-32/DC-7C trips, and when the...
Jump to postDon't forget Cochise Airlines, that in addition to other routes flew PHX-YUM-IPL-LAX and PHX-BLH-LAX in the late-1970s and early-1980s. According to wikipedia - and in this case its probably right because a real airline fan must have made the Cochise entry - the CV440 operated route through Imperial...
Jump to postThis accident is weird. Maybe pitot tube ice or unreliable airspeed caused disorientation of the pilots. Excellent hypothesis. The fact that the airplane was inverted and intact on impact indicates some kind of spatial issues, and not just a mechanical problem such as the engine failures and runawa...
Jump to postOn NW001, Okinawa to Manila I can provide some additional color from an NWA Pilot Retirees magazine. The flight conducted an emergency decent with a magnesium fire due the runaway prop and super charger issues, The fire extinguishers worked originally but the fire started again leaving the crew lit...
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