Search found 804 matches

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by RetiredWeasel
Tue Sep 22, 2020 9:06 pm
Forum: Military Aviation & Space Flight
Topic: Best dogfighter in 1970
Replies: 40
Views: 1508

Re: Best dogfighter in 1970

While nobody would really consider the F-105 a great dog fighter, it had more GUN kills (25) in Vietnam than any other fighter combined to include the F-4E or CD with a pod and the F-8. If you limit the discussion to confirmed combat kills of MIGs nothing even to this day beats the F-4 as 'The world...

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by RetiredWeasel
Thu Sep 17, 2020 3:44 pm
Forum: Technical/Operations
Topic: 727 fuel burn / tank management
Replies: 12
Views: 1482

Re: 727 fuel burn / tank management

I can't remember if it was 10,000 feet for the switch to all center tank feed (I think it was lower), but your procedure sounds like the one we used at NW.

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by RetiredWeasel
Wed Sep 16, 2020 5:31 pm
Forum: Technical/Operations
Topic: Why didn't the 737-100/200 and DC-9 need a flight engineer when most airliners of the era needed one?
Replies: 36
Views: 2685

Re: Why didn't the 737-100/200 and DC-9 need a flight engineer when most airliners of the era needed one?

Others can probably provide better answers than me, but aircraft systems have simply evolved from being complex with manual operation to becoming automatic during last 50 years. Airliners of the 50's - 70's needed professional flight engineers to manage and monitor the switches, valves, etc because ...

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by RetiredWeasel
Wed Sep 16, 2020 4:19 pm
Forum: Technical/Operations
Topic: Spatial disorientation accidents, how do they happen with aircraft with (properly working) instruments?
Replies: 23
Views: 1963

Re: Spatial disorientation accidents, how do they happen with aircraft with (properly working) instruments?

You don't need clouds to suffer Spatial D. Moonless nights with stars and sparse ground lighting can confuse the senses as to which way is sky vs which way is ground/ocean. Not sure if the Japanese Air Force F-35 pilot was in the clouds, but that was attributed to be the cause of his death and destr...

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by RetiredWeasel
Fri Sep 11, 2020 4:15 pm
Forum: Technical/Operations
Topic: Boeing 727 flap sequence
Replies: 26
Views: 1905

Re: Boeing 727 flap sequence

Flaps 2, then all LED extend with Flaps 5. IIRC, it’s slat panels 2,3,6,7 with 2, then all 8 with Flaps 5. Flaps 2 unlocks the outboard ailerons. Galaxy Flyer correctly commented on the sequence of the Leading Edge Devices (LEDs) and flap settings. Back in the days, many airlines entry level for pi...

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by RetiredWeasel
Wed Sep 02, 2020 10:06 pm
Forum: Military Aviation & Space Flight
Topic: Russian SU27 buzzes the BUFF over the Black Sea
Replies: 23
Views: 1869

Re: Russian SU27 buzzes the BUFF over the Black Sea

I've always partly suspected these intercept antics are somewhat informed by the scrambled pilot's being annoyed by the scramble/stress of a silly 'we are gonna push you to do something' type of near-overflight. No one becomes an F-15/Su-27 pilot hoping to go do boring 'intercepts' of B-52's/Tu-95'...

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by RetiredWeasel
Tue Sep 01, 2020 8:07 pm
Forum: Technical/Operations
Topic: Departure procedures for airports located near international borders
Replies: 16
Views: 2481

Re: Departure procedures for airports located near international borders

There are approaches into RWY 4 in El Paso which overfly the Mexican border. Countries obviously have agreements.

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by RetiredWeasel
Tue Sep 01, 2020 8:01 pm
Forum: Technical/Operations
Topic: Departure procedures for airports located near international borders
Replies: 16
Views: 2481

Re: Departure procedures for airports located near international borders

Example early turn: Seoul Gimpo is very close to the North Korean border. Departing off 32 L or R is an early u-turn to the left. The Gimpo charts are also littered with reassuring little notes to the effect of "really really don't deviate north into this area or you'll get shot at". At f...

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by RetiredWeasel
Fri Aug 28, 2020 4:03 pm
Forum: Technical/Operations
Topic: NW DC-10-40 vs DC-10-30
Replies: 64
Views: 7436

Re: NW DC-10-40 vs DC-10-30

I don't remember any HNL-SYD flight during my tenure, but it's possible (year?). HNL-GUM existed for a couple of years on the 10. There was also a ANC-NRT on the 10 for a year. Here’s a timetable from 1992: http://www.departedflights.com/NW121592p9.html HNL-SYD ops split between 742 and DC10. Misse...

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by RetiredWeasel
Fri Aug 28, 2020 1:46 pm
Forum: Technical/Operations
Topic: NW DC-10-40 vs DC-10-30
Replies: 64
Views: 7436

Re: NW DC-10-40 vs DC-10-30

Transpac787 wrote:

On the Pacific, at various points they operated SEA-KIX, PDX-NRT, SFO-NRT, and HNL-SYD.


I don't remember any HNL-SYD flight during my tenure, but it's possible (year?). HNL-GUM existed for a couple of years on the 10. There was also a ANC-NRT on the 10 for a year.

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by RetiredWeasel
Tue Aug 25, 2020 1:21 am
Forum: Technical/Operations
Topic: 1990s and opening of Soviet/Russian airspace
Replies: 3
Views: 815

Re: 1990s and opening of Soviet/Russian airspace

Air France in 1979. Finnair fly direct Tokyo with a DC 10-30 ER in 1983 but avoiding USSR airspace. First Air France nonstop to Tokyo in April 1986 Avoiding Soviet Airspace to go Helsinki to Tokyo? Wow that's quite the detour! How far off the coast is "Soviet Airspace" I am guessing ETOPs...

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by RetiredWeasel
Wed Aug 19, 2020 1:02 am
Forum: Technical/Operations
Topic: ATC Command “Change my Frequency”
Replies: 28
Views: 3373

Re: ATC Command “Change my Frequency”

When i was in the Navy, after launching aircraft/helos off the deck, to switch the aircraft to the next controlling agency, we’d just say “Push purple.” (Or other corresponding color that corresponded to the frequency they were supposed to be on) Or if I’m already talking to an aircraft and wanted ...

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by RetiredWeasel
Mon Aug 17, 2020 4:44 pm
Forum: Military Aviation & Space Flight
Topic: What do military pilots eat aboard?
Replies: 48
Views: 3946

Re: What do military pilots eat aboard?

Don't you want to keep food intake to a minimum on long deployment flights since, er..how do I put it nicely...what goes in, must come out? Being strapped into a cockpit of a fighter jet, you don't have that many options available when you have to go... On the only excessively long flight (12 hours...

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by RetiredWeasel
Sun Aug 16, 2020 7:20 pm
Forum: Military Aviation & Space Flight
Topic: IIAF (Imperial Iranian Air force) One
Replies: 8
Views: 2249

Re: IIAF (Imperial Iranian Air force) One

Adding to some history regarding Iran royalty: The Shah's oldest son (Reza Pahlavi Jr.) went through USAF pilot training at Reese AFB, TX when I was an IP there in '78/'79. On several weekends, an Iranian 707 would fly in on Fridays and pick him up and depart for somewhere. When the Shah went into e...

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by RetiredWeasel
Sun Aug 16, 2020 4:39 pm
Forum: Military Aviation & Space Flight
Topic: What do military pilots eat aboard?
Replies: 48
Views: 3946

Re: What do military pilots eat aboard?

Ancient fighter pilot here (70's, 80's). On training missions (usually 2 hours or less) hardly ever took food except maybe for a candy bar. Deployments (flights over 4 hours or so) somebody coordinated box lunches for us to order with usually a choice of items. My memory was sandwitches or fried chi...

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by RetiredWeasel
Tue Aug 11, 2020 9:46 pm
Forum: Military Aviation & Space Flight
Topic: What airports does JANET fly to?
Replies: 16
Views: 1542

Re: What airports does JANET fly to?

I wouldn't say "on a regular basis" but: Yucca Dry Lake Airport, Creech AFB (Indian Springs), Edwards AFB, and China Lake NAS. And aviators call the airfield in Dreamland, "Groom Lake".

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by RetiredWeasel
Mon Aug 03, 2020 6:30 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Northwest Orient and Northwest Airlines
Replies: 61
Views: 12477

Re: Northwest Orient and Northwest Airlines

So I live in Detroit and remember the Northwest-Republic merger. At first, the word "Republic" was simply covered with "Northwest Orient". Then, as the new livery came out (which was the bowling shoe), "Orient" was dropped. My memory of your timeline is a little differ...

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by RetiredWeasel
Mon Jul 27, 2020 6:34 pm
Forum: Military Aviation & Space Flight
Topic: Star Wars Canyon - Jedi transition
Replies: 15
Views: 4664

Re: Star Wars Canyon - Jedi transition

Lots of rumors and speculation about military flight training having resumed in Rainbow Canyon - but no one has confirmed it actually has. Can anyone confirm military flight training has restarted in that area? Still a 1500' restriction over the canyon according to the official public R-2508 websit...

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by RetiredWeasel
Mon Jul 27, 2020 12:07 am
Forum: Military Aviation & Space Flight
Topic: The F16 and Mach 2
Replies: 19
Views: 2344

Re: The F16 and Mach 2

For the F-16, Mach 2 is not necessary. It's a grocery getter and errand runner aircraft for the military. Interceptors like the F-15 & F-22 require it because they are policing the air-highways. Your being too short with the F-16s. There are several units that supplement Operation Noble Eagle w...

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by RetiredWeasel
Sat Jul 25, 2020 4:13 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: US F15 intercepting Iran's Mahan Air A310 resulted in several injuries
Replies: 123
Views: 25533

Re: US F15 intercepting Iran's Mahan Air A310 resulted in several injuries

US Airlines are prohibited by the FAA from overflying Syria. First it was by NOTAM in 2014 and now by an FAA regulation. My understanding that few (if any) western airlines overfly the country. It's a friggin warzone. Why other countries allow it makes no sense to me. Bad shit can happen in disputed...

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by RetiredWeasel
Fri Jul 17, 2020 6:55 pm
Forum: Technical/Operations
Topic: NW DC-10-40 vs DC-10-30
Replies: 64
Views: 7436

Re: NW DC-10-40 vs DC-10-30

For just a little bit of timeline info. I checked out as an FO on NW DC-10 sometime in 2003. By that time NW had gotten rid of the -40s and were only flying -30s. I remember during the checkout I heard the pilots were glad the -40's were gone. Seems there were problems of compressor stalls at the to...

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by RetiredWeasel
Thu Jul 16, 2020 2:31 am
Forum: Military Aviation & Space Flight
Topic: Do Military Aircraft make refueling stops while enroute or are they just refueled while flying?
Replies: 21
Views: 1625

Re: Do Military Aircraft make refueling stops while enroute or are they just refueled while flying?

How long can a fight jockey fly, normal circumstances? Must be time-limited..... Flew an F-4 for 12 hours from George AFB, CA to Wildenrath AB, Germany non stop. And that's not close to the record which have been up to 15 hours I believe on long deployments. The F-4 had dual controls for the rear c...

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by RetiredWeasel
Wed Jul 15, 2020 8:36 pm
Forum: Military Aviation & Space Flight
Topic: Do Military Aircraft make refueling stops while enroute or are they just refueled while flying?
Replies: 21
Views: 1625

Re: Do Military Aircraft make refueling stops while enroute or are they just refueled while flying?

Dutchy wrote:
How long can a fight jockey fly, normal circumstances? Must be time-limited.....


Flew an F-4 for 12 hours from George AFB, CA to Wildenrath AB, Germany non stop. And that's not close to the record which have been up to 15 hours I believe on long deployments.

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by RetiredWeasel
Mon Jul 13, 2020 3:49 pm
Forum: Technical/Operations
Topic: B727 cockpit
Replies: 31
Views: 3704

Re: B727 cockpit

At NW, we had many SO's that flew as FE's on the 747-200 panel for years. The pay was actually equal or better than a DC-9 FO when you added the international override and international per-diem. And many liked the longer trips as some required only one commute a month. I bounced from FO to SO sever...

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by RetiredWeasel
Thu Jul 09, 2020 8:38 pm
Forum: Technical/Operations
Topic: B727 cockpit
Replies: 31
Views: 3704

Re: B727 cockpit

I’ve always wondered, with a qualified pilot, or Second Officer acting as a flight engineer for however long it takes for their seniority to allow them to be promoted to the right seat, was there ever a concern about their flying skills eroding? Sure, they probably flew for years before getting the...

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by RetiredWeasel
Wed Jul 08, 2020 4:36 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Delta has a hail encounter.
Replies: 42
Views: 9039

Re: Delta has a hail encounter.

https://www.bizjournals.com/twincities/ ... it-of.html
-->

Delta has a some experience in repairing hail damaged radomes. 744 going into Incheon a few years back:
https://www.bizjournals.com/twincities/ ... it-of.html

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by RetiredWeasel
Thu Jun 04, 2020 3:39 am
Forum: Military Aviation & Space Flight
Topic: Former F-117 pilot admits plane had secondary A2A role on podcast
Replies: 7
Views: 2358

Re: Former F-117 pilot admits plane had secondary A2A role on podcast

A former F-4 squadron mate of mine flew the F117 from '86 to '91. I asked him about this after reading about the podcast a month ago. He essentialy said he had heard about some test and evaluation using the AIM-9 and trying to acquire an airborne target with their FLIR gear. However, he said never w...

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by RetiredWeasel
Tue Jun 02, 2020 3:07 am
Forum: Technical/Operations
Topic: Landing wind direction
Replies: 28
Views: 2737

Re: Landing wind direction

As a previous poster said, airlines may impose the limitations. The four different airplanes I flew over 17 years were all limited to 10kts tailwind component for TO or landing. I always assumed that that was true for the rest of the fleet also. This may have been done for standardization as I'm sur...

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by RetiredWeasel
Tue Jun 02, 2020 12:06 am
Forum: Military Aviation & Space Flight
Topic: P-8 Poseidon, fighter escorts needed?
Replies: 38
Views: 3701

Re: P-8 Poseidon, fighter escorts needed?

.. https://www.upi.com/Defense-News/2020/03/09/Norway-intercepts-Russian-aircraft-with-F-35s-for-first-time/6421583774223/ Follow on article, https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-north-east-orkney-shetland-51789577 Easier to send fighters for some of the journey when you have basing reasonably clos...

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by RetiredWeasel
Sun May 31, 2020 10:42 pm
Forum: Military Aviation & Space Flight
Topic: P-8 Poseidon, fighter escorts needed?
Replies: 38
Views: 3701

Re: P-8 Poseidon, fighter escorts needed?

Your post stands more chance of not being deleted if you include a link for your source. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U21JrpV_4sY The Su-35 is a large fighter, they didn't look "very, very close" to me. IMHO, they looked to be pretty professional. I'm going to go with the official Navy...

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by RetiredWeasel
Sun May 31, 2020 3:57 am
Forum: Technical/Operations
Topic: A fighter providing support for a commercial aircraft?
Replies: 16
Views: 2485

Re: A fighter providing support for a commercial aircraft?

Not quite your scenario with the WX, but you could adapt. There's no doubt that the F-18 communicated with the airliner regarding what he observed regarding the landing gear. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7961831/Air-Canada-jet-preparing-emergency-landing-Madrid-airport.html

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by RetiredWeasel
Sun May 31, 2020 2:01 am
Forum: Technical/Operations
Topic: A fighter providing support for a commercial aircraft?
Replies: 16
Views: 2485

Re: A fighter providing support for a commercial aircraft?

While unlikely, it's certainly a possibility if a fighter happened to be airborne in the vicinity of the airliner. Doubt any fighters would be scrambled to investigate. Weird things do happen. I picked up a T-38 after heavy maintenance in San Antonio to fly back to Reese AFB, TX and lost all my pito...

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by RetiredWeasel
Thu May 28, 2020 4:37 pm
Forum: Military Aviation & Space Flight
Topic: T-7A Red Hawk News and Discussion Thread
Replies: 112
Views: 19633

Re: T-X becomes T-7A Red Hawk

".....student in the T-38 would be an afterburner takeoff and an afterburner climb to 86,000 feet.[/i][/b] It would take about three and one-half minutes. It would be followed by practice 180-degree ......." When I joined the USAF and went to pilot training in the early 70's, flight above...

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by RetiredWeasel
Thu May 28, 2020 3:53 pm
Forum: Military Aviation & Space Flight
Topic: USN Begins Process to Select New Jet Trainer/T-45 Replacement
Replies: 43
Views: 4247

Re: USN Begins Process to Select New Jet Trainer/T-45 Replacement

When pilots flies fighters to another base for training, where do they put their gear? I mean if you put your duffle in a bay not designed for a duffle, how do you strap it down? bt Baggage pods. https://www.cobhammissionsystems.com/auxiliary-mission-equipment/military-aircraft-special-purpose-pods...

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by RetiredWeasel
Wed May 27, 2020 3:41 am
Forum: Technical/Operations
Topic: Advantages of a pullback vs a pushback?
Replies: 17
Views: 2439

Re: Advantages of a pullback vs a pushback?

I remember when AA used TRs for “pullback” on the MD80s at DFW. The sequence would start with a momentary forward motion, then you’d hear the TRs engage before starting your pullback. Except for the slight forward motion, it was pretty cool. It was called Powerback. Saved a few minutes of time but ...

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by RetiredWeasel
Mon May 25, 2020 9:25 pm
Forum: Technical/Operations
Topic: Does UA still own / operate a 744 simulator ?
Replies: 26
Views: 2875

Re: Does UA still own / operate a 744 simulator ?

That question confused me. Was it in reference to the 777-200, or maybe the 747-200? Weasel is correct regarding the 747 issue. Boeing has a 747-400 sim that can be converted to a 747-8 in about 8 hours as I recall. The 777-300 can be used as -200F or a -200 with just a couple of config changes. Bo...

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by RetiredWeasel
Mon May 25, 2020 8:35 pm
Forum: Technical/Operations
Topic: Does UA still own / operate a 744 simulator ?
Replies: 26
Views: 2875

Re: Does UA still own / operate a 744 simulator ?

Max Q wrote:
KFTG wrote:
No. The last -400 full flight was sold over two years ago. A brand new 77W full flight is now in the bay it vacated.



Can it be be used as a 200 sim as well ?

No. Completely different flight deck, emergency procedures and type rating.

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by RetiredWeasel
Wed May 20, 2020 4:12 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: March 1st 2001, FIRST 777 trans-polar flight to HKG documentary
Replies: 27
Views: 5729

Re: March 1st 2001, FIRST 777 trans-polar flight to HKG documentary

CX's first polar flight was an one off JFK-HKG on a 744 to commemorate the opening of the new HKG airport. It was a revenue flight. Pax on this flight were presented with certificates as being the first pax arriving the new HKG. According to the article I linked, the first flight was non-rev. But i...

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by RetiredWeasel
Wed May 20, 2020 4:08 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: March 1st 2001, FIRST 777 trans-polar flight to HKG documentary
Replies: 27
Views: 5729

Re: March 1st 2001, FIRST 777 trans-polar flight to HKG documentary

Any polar flight from Asia to the US that overflew Russia didn't take place until '98 when Russia granted the routes. Here is the article that has been referenced before in a previous thread. CX was the first, but unclear if it was a revenue flight. NW didn't fly one of the granted routes into HKG ...

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by RetiredWeasel
Wed May 20, 2020 3:07 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: March 1st 2001, FIRST 777 trans-polar flight to HKG documentary
Replies: 27
Views: 5729

Re: March 1st 2001, FIRST 777 trans-polar flight to HKG documentary

Any polar flight from Asia to the US that overflew Russia didn't take place until '98 when Russia granted the routes. Here is the article that has been referenced before in a previous thread. CX was the first, but unclear if it was a revenue flight. NW didn't fly one of the granted routes into HKG b...

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by RetiredWeasel
Mon May 18, 2020 3:00 pm
Forum: Military Aviation & Space Flight
Topic: Royal Canadian Air Force Snowbirds Cross Canada tour (Operation Inspiration)
Replies: 40
Views: 4640

Re: Royal Canadian Air Force Snowbirds Cross Canada tour (Operation Inspiration)

Engine failure on take-off boldface for the Tutor is zoom climb, throttle idle, attempt airstart , if no EGT rise, eject according to a friend. Possibly stalled at the top of the zoom. Compressor stall certainly indicates engine failure. As a former Tweet spin instructor, it sure looks like a class...

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by RetiredWeasel
Mon May 18, 2020 5:52 am
Forum: Military Aviation & Space Flight
Topic: Royal Canadian Air Force Snowbirds Cross Canada tour (Operation Inspiration)
Replies: 40
Views: 4640

Re: Royal Canadian Air Force Snowbirds Cross Canada tour (Operation Inspiration)

RIP Capt. Casey. Are those aircraft retrofitted with zero-zero ejection seats? Or have they retained the original seats? No zero-zero seats in the Tutor, and also, each occupant is responsible for ejecting themselves. There is no linked ejection system between the two seats, so if the aircraft is s...

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by RetiredWeasel
Sat May 16, 2020 7:03 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Aviation sector unpaid leaves and layoffs thread
Replies: 202
Views: 33200

Re: Airlines Job Cuts

For an airline like United is it not made more difficult, since they have overseas bases (LHR FRA etc), what happens to them? Do they have an individual seniority list, or do they merge into the bigger picture? Only US Citizens or Green Card holders are allowed to operate as crew on US Aircraft, ma...

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by RetiredWeasel
Thu May 07, 2020 3:38 pm
Forum: Travel, Polls & Preferences
Topic: Will pax only airlines buy more cargo aircraft?
Replies: 18
Views: 1531

Re: Will pax only airlines buy more cargo aircraft?

Yes they did indeed. And UA had a fleet of DC-8 freighters and ran a pretty extensive nightly schedule with ORD as the hub. They discontinued them around 1985 or so. They later had some DC-10 freighters for a very brief time in the late 80's for flights from the US to Asia United's DC-10 freighter ...

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by RetiredWeasel
Thu May 07, 2020 2:01 pm
Forum: Travel, Polls & Preferences
Topic: Will pax only airlines buy more cargo aircraft?
Replies: 18
Views: 1531

Re: Will pax only airlines buy more cargo aircraft?

Northwest, prior to the merger, had up to 16 747 freighters. Delta dropped the whole bunch of them shortly after the merger.

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by RetiredWeasel
Mon Apr 20, 2020 7:59 pm
Forum: Military Aviation & Space Flight
Topic: USAF no longer base strategic bombers outside continental US
Replies: 7
Views: 1494

Re: USAF no longer base strategic bombers outside continental US

"Basing" is relative term. My understanding is that the bombers, crews and maintenance folks rotated in out of Guam for the past decade. Longest tour was 6 mos although I'm sure there were a few permanent troops on 3 year assignments there.

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by RetiredWeasel
Fri Apr 10, 2020 8:02 pm
Forum: Military Aviation & Space Flight
Topic: French Rafale Ejection Incident March 20 2019
Replies: 23
Views: 2559

Re: French Rafale Ejection Incident March 20 2019

Switchable in most operational planes, either individually or when one seat is initiated the other fires. They’d be sequenced in any case, so the back seat goes first, protecting the rear seater from jet blast of the front seat. A lot of Navy back seaters survived while the pilot was killed during ...

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by RetiredWeasel
Fri Apr 03, 2020 10:48 pm
Forum: Military Aviation & Space Flight
Topic: F-15 crash and split afterburner use
Replies: 19
Views: 3151

Re: F-15 crash and split afterburner use

Kind of late to this topic but: Lighting one burner (usually miin burner) and controlling speed with the other throttle up to mil was a technique that we even used in F-4s. Usually done only when we were heavy and above the optimum refueling altitude for some reason. Lighting the one burner was alwa...

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by RetiredWeasel
Wed Apr 01, 2020 4:13 pm
Forum: Military Aviation & Space Flight
Topic: Air national guard deployment
Replies: 18
Views: 1516

Re: Air national guard deployment

If you want a fighter guarantee, as far as I know (I know a lot but I don't know everything) your best and probably ONLY bet is an Air Force Reserve or Guard squadron since you apply to the squadron directly In the past, obtaining an undergraduate pilot training slot from a USAF Guard or Reserve un...

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by RetiredWeasel
Fri Mar 27, 2020 9:35 pm
Forum: Military Aviation & Space Flight
Topic: Large fly past
Replies: 7
Views: 1135

Re: Large fly past

Military aircraft have and use their navigation lights unless they are going into combat or flying some super secret mission. I suspect it was helicopters as the New Jersey gov activated the National Guard to aid in the fight against coronavirus and you missed the nav lights somehow. Oops, Edit: Are...

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