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by DeltaMD95
Tue Sep 28, 2021 1:57 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: 15 Years ago today- Last B717 delivered
Replies: 116
Views: 22548

Re: 15 Years ago today- Last B717 delivered

With the impending Delta retirement known, the real question to speculate is how many of Delta’s once active fleet of 91 717s will be acquired by another operator for future service? I understand the common bearish arguments for why the majority of these will not fly again, but I would be surprised...

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by DeltaMD95
Tue Sep 28, 2021 1:46 am
Forum: Travel, Polls & Preferences
Topic: Will any McDonnell Douglas planes still be flying in the 2030s
Replies: 34
Views: 2739

Re: Will any McDonnell Douglas planes still be flying in the 2030s

There are aircraft on the market today that can hold the same number of people, fly to all the islands, and burn 30% less fuel, probably more, and cost less in maintenance. Source? “A number of aircraft?” Not the A319NEO or E195-E2. Fifteen, twenty percent I can see for the A220-300, but 30% sounds...

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by DeltaMD95
Mon Sep 27, 2021 9:21 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: 15 Years ago today- Last B717 delivered
Replies: 116
Views: 22548

Re: 15 Years ago today- Last B717 delivered

AirTran was not clamoring for more 717s. They ordered 737s instead of more 717s because the 737 carried more passengers for roughly similar operating costs. AirTran was actually clamoring for the 717-300 stretch. And an ER variant. Boeing did not oblige as they had the leverage to drive AirTran tow...

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by DeltaMD95
Sun Sep 26, 2021 9:56 pm
Forum: Technical/Operations
Topic: Did the DC-8 and DC-10 have the largest passenger windows of all commercial jetliners?
Replies: 15
Views: 3335

Re: Did the DC-8 and DC-10 have the largest passenger windows of all commercial jetliners?

I liked the big passenger windows on the DC-10. Am not sure they were very safe since there was an accident where one was lost and a passenger was sucked out the window. Was that National Airlines flight 27 in 1973? I wonder if that poor individual would have survived if he had been sitting next to...

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by DeltaMD95
Sun Sep 26, 2021 9:45 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: DL making media noise about purchasing 737MAX, again.
Replies: 110
Views: 17513

Re: DL making media noise about purchasing 737MAX, again.

Personally hope that neither happens, as it's nice to have a major airline option that allows avoidance of the MAX; but will be interesting to see what eventually shakes out. This is my feeling exactly. Plus, an ultimate no on a DL MAX order equals loss of top 3 global customer - all to Airbus - an...

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by DeltaMD95
Sun Sep 26, 2021 7:46 pm
Forum: Travel, Polls & Preferences
Topic: What airliner do you wish you could have flown on but never got the chance?
Replies: 70
Views: 5378

Re: What airliner do you wish you could have flown on but never got the chance?

Philippine747 wrote:
MD-80! Was looking at Far Eastern Air Transport for a possible day trip to Penghu, but a few days before I flew to Taipei, the airline folded. Thankfully never booked tickets but still miffed about it.


What about Airfast Indonesia? Seems like this option would still be available to you.

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by DeltaMD95
Sun Sep 26, 2021 7:35 pm
Forum: Travel, Polls & Preferences
Topic: What airliner do you wish you could have flown on but never got the chance?
Replies: 70
Views: 5378

Re: What airliner do you wish you could have flown on but never got the chance?

It kills me that I never got to experience the L-1011 or MD-11. I was not even drinking age when DL and AA retired them, respectively.

To make matters worse, there was virtually no domestic service from my hometown airport of ORD…
Thank goodness for UA’s large fleet of DC-10s. ;)

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by DeltaMD95
Sun Sep 26, 2021 7:27 pm
Forum: Travel, Polls & Preferences
Topic: DC9 series- Which have you flown on?
Replies: 41
Views: 1369

Re: DC9 series- Which have you flown on?

For those that were fortunate to fly a variety of airline/equipment combos, were there any experiences that stood out from the rest? To me, the American Airlines MD-82/83s were the absolute classic essence of what the Mad Dog family was. Simply by numbers, scale , & longevity. And that til the e...

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by DeltaMD95
Sun Sep 26, 2021 7:06 pm
Forum: Travel, Polls & Preferences
Topic: Was the McDonnell Douglas MD-90 a good airplane?
Replies: 26
Views: 2808

Re: Was the McDonnell Douglas MD-90 a good airplane?

Another interesting thing about the plane ... McDonnell Douglas had planned an MD-90-40 derivative that was 52.3 meters long (almost 8 meters longer than the A321, and nearly 10 meters longer than the 737 MAX 10). It would've held 170-180 passengers in three-class seating, or 217 passengers in sing...

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by DeltaMD95
Sun Sep 26, 2021 6:36 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: 15 Years ago today- Last B717 delivered
Replies: 116
Views: 22548

Re: 15 Years ago today- Last B717 delivered

With the impending Delta retirement known, the real question to speculate is how many of Delta’s once active fleet of 91 717s will be acquired by another operator for future service? I understand the common bearish arguments for why the majority of these will not fly again, but I would be surprised ...

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by DeltaMD95
Sat Sep 25, 2021 12:11 am
Forum: Travel, Polls & Preferences
Topic: DC9 series- Which have you flown on?
Replies: 41
Views: 1369

Re: DC9 series- Which have you flown on?

AA: MD-82/83
DL: MD-88/90, DC-9-50, 717
NW: DC-9-30
FL: 717
US: MD-82

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by DeltaMD95
Mon Sep 20, 2021 8:51 pm
Forum: Travel, Polls & Preferences
Topic: Will any McDonnell Douglas planes still be flying in the 2030s
Replies: 34
Views: 2739

Re: Will any McDonnell Douglas planes still be flying in the 2030s

And the last MD-11s are barely 20 years old now, with the last ones being new-build MD11Fs that never took the hours/cycles of passenger service and many others being converted early in life. Indeed. And there was a final late stage PIP post Boeing merger, specifically for the Freighter, to increas...

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by DeltaMD95
Sun Sep 19, 2021 10:37 pm
Forum: Technical/Operations
Topic: Why didn't Boeing power the 727 with JT3D engines?
Replies: 23
Views: 3605

Re: Why didn't Boeing power the 727 with JT3D engines?

A classic case of a too small wing is the MD11. They tried to compensate with power. I once had a pilot tell me that doing the noise abatement departure at PDX at MTOW would result in stick shaker activation.....yet such operation was approved! The 11 also routinely can't comply with the 250kts bel...

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by DeltaMD95
Sun Sep 19, 2021 8:49 pm
Forum: Technical/Operations
Topic: MD-90 7,000 fpm rate of climb?
Replies: 8
Views: 2411

Re: MD-90 7,000 fpm rate of climb?

744SPX wrote:
Imagine if they installed the V2500 with the 33,000 pound thrust rating...


Imagine an updated UDF concept. Those two testbeds Boeing bought are up to something.

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by DeltaMD95
Sun Sep 19, 2021 8:47 pm
Forum: Travel, Polls & Preferences
Topic: Which airliner has the smoothest take off?
Replies: 14
Views: 1201

Re: Which airliner has the smoothest take off?

I second the MD-90. Smooth rotation, powerful climb-out.

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by DeltaMD95
Sat Sep 18, 2021 9:04 pm
Forum: Travel, Polls & Preferences
Topic: Will any McDonnell Douglas planes still be flying in the 2030s
Replies: 34
Views: 2739

Re: Will any McDonnell Douglas planes still be flying in the 2030s

I expect MD11 freighters to still be flying. When it comes to range, payload, gate space etc, the MD11 still remains the most versatile commercial widebody freighter. Excellent points made. For an added bullish historical context: FX’s MD-10F fleet of 12 will retire in 2023 at an aggregate of 42 ye...

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by DeltaMD95
Sat Sep 18, 2021 7:47 pm
Forum: Travel, Polls & Preferences
Topic: Will any McDonnell Douglas planes still be flying in the 2030s
Replies: 34
Views: 2739

Re: Will any McDonnell Douglas planes still be flying in the 2030s

Creative idea for a topic. Hypothetic MD discussions are always fun. And I mean that sincerely. For the bullish case, seems the general consensus is the following are plausible for 2030 active operation: - MD-11Fs (UPS/FX. Current scale will allow for lengthy draw-down. Later builds will only be ~ 3...

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by DeltaMD95
Sat Sep 11, 2021 9:58 pm
Forum: Travel, Polls & Preferences
Topic: Does anyone else miss the Boeing 727?
Replies: 39
Views: 3326

Re: Does anyone else miss the Boeing 727?

As a spotter, the 727-200 was unmistakably the loudest aircraft on climbout at ORD & ATL in the mid 1990s. Not exactly a rocket either, compared to the MD80 or 752, but offered good nostalgic variety. As a passenger, the aircraft always felt rock solid and reliable. (No 737 rudder or MCAS like f...

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by DeltaMD95
Sat Sep 11, 2021 8:32 pm
Forum: Technical/Operations
Topic: Is the UDF Engine Back from the Dead?
Replies: 37
Views: 8253

Re: Is the UDF Engine Back from the Dead?

In March of 2021, Boeing purchased two former DL MD-90s from the boneyard in BYH and flew them to VCV (N962DN & N908DA). It’s plausible these aircraft were acquired to be used as testbeds. Might an updated UDF concept be a conceivable purpose for these aircraft? :scratchchin: https://www.planesp...

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by DeltaMD95
Mon Sep 06, 2021 8:22 pm
Forum: Travel, Polls & Preferences
Topic: Was the McDonnell Douglas MD-90 a good airplane?
Replies: 26
Views: 2808

Re: Was the McDonnell Douglas MD-90 a good airplane?

Another interesting thing about the plane ... McDonnell Douglas had planned an MD-90-40 derivative that was 52.3 meters long (almost 8 meters longer than the A321, and nearly 10 meters longer than the 737 MAX 10). It would've held 170-180 passengers in three-class seating, or 217 passengers in sing...

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by DeltaMD95
Mon Sep 06, 2021 8:06 pm
Forum: Travel, Polls & Preferences
Topic: Was the McDonnell Douglas MD-90 a good airplane?
Replies: 26
Views: 2808

Re: Was the McDonnell Douglas MD-90 a good airplane?

But rear-mounted engines raise a lot of issues. a) The lack of a heavy engine on the wing means that the wing has to carry the full weight of the entire aircraft at its root with no bending relief from an engine, so it needs to be stronger (heavier). b) Wing-mounted engines can serve as anti-shock ...

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by DeltaMD95
Sun Aug 29, 2021 6:59 pm
Forum: Travel, Polls & Preferences
Topic: Was the McDonnell Douglas MD-90 a good airplane?
Replies: 26
Views: 2808

Re: Was the McDonnell Douglas MD-90 a good airplane?

It was a tired old platform, basically the ultimate warmed up DC9 with lots of compromises and shortcomings compared to more modern aircraft Developing it further was pointless overall that way MDD problem with both the narrow and wide body products For proper perspective, the DC-9 platform was not...

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by DeltaMD95
Sat Aug 28, 2021 11:40 pm
Forum: Travel, Polls & Preferences
Topic: Was the McDonnell Douglas MD-90 a good airplane?
Replies: 26
Views: 2808

Re: Was the McDonnell Douglas MD-90 a good airplane?

Max Q wrote:
It was a tired old platform, basically the ultimate warmed up DC9 with lots of compromises and shortcomings compared to more modern aircraft


Developing it further was pointless


737MAX: hold my beer

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by DeltaMD95
Fri Aug 27, 2021 9:29 pm
Forum: Travel, Polls & Preferences
Topic: Was the McDonnell Douglas MD-90 a good airplane?
Replies: 26
Views: 2808

Re: Was the McDonnell Douglas MD-90 a good airplane?

I've heard that the MD-90 production line was eliminated once Boeing took over McDonnell Douglas because it was competing with the Boeing 737. Was the MD-90 just the right plane at the wrong time? If McDonnell Douglas had been able to survive, do you think there would still be MD-90's out there? Wh...

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by DeltaMD95
Fri Aug 27, 2021 9:28 pm
Forum: Travel, Polls & Preferences
Topic: Was the McDonnell Douglas MD-90 a good airplane?
Replies: 26
Views: 2808

Re: Was the McDonnell Douglas MD-90 a good airplane?

I've heard that the MD-90 production line was eliminated once Boeing took over McDonnell Douglas because it was competing with the Boeing 737. Was the MD-90 just the right plane at the wrong time? If McDonnell Douglas had been able to survive, do you think there would still be MD-90's out there? Wh...

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by DeltaMD95
Fri Aug 27, 2021 9:20 pm
Forum: Travel, Polls & Preferences
Topic: Was the McDonnell Douglas MD-90 a good airplane?
Replies: 26
Views: 2808

Re: Was the McDonnell Douglas MD-90 a good airplane?

MD90-50 would've been the transcontinental version. Actually the MD90-50 was developed as the MD-95 and later renamed into the Boeing 717. Far from transcontinental, more like a competitor for the regional jets at the time. Specially the Fokker F-100 which it showed many similarities with. The MD-9...

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by DeltaMD95
Thu Aug 19, 2021 12:04 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Delta Fleet Thread - 2021
Replies: 1387
Views: 299267

Re: Delta Fleet Thread - 2021

Can we expect more 717’s to come back. Does anyone see Hawaiian to cherry pick some frames. There isn’t an aircraft out there that can fly as many cycles as MD aircraft. Recently noticed the return of the 717 to DTW-ORD. Would be nice to see the 717 return to ATL-ORD. Is there confirmation of how m...

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by DeltaMD95
Mon Aug 16, 2021 11:21 pm
Forum: Trip Reports
Topic: CCS-MIA crabwise, or getting hooked on classics: Laser DC-9-82 & Swift Air B737-400
Replies: 8
Views: 4796

Re: CCS-MIA crabwise, or getting hooked on classics: Laser DC-9-82 & Swift Air B737-400

Great TR! These reports with the classic rare birds I find the most interesting. I got goosebumps when you shared that YV2923 used to be N458AA, as I have that tail # in my logbook from 2009, BOS-ORD. With the death knell of retirements from AA and DL in 2019-20, it warms the heart to see a very sel...

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by DeltaMD95
Mon Aug 16, 2021 12:17 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2021
Replies: 653
Views: 129983

Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2021

Are the 787-8 and 787-9 now the only domestic wide bodies operated by UA and AA from ORD?

Separately, 717 service has returned to ORD by way of DL DTW. Would be nice to see the type return to ATL- ORD as well.

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by DeltaMD95
Sun Aug 15, 2021 9:40 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: 15 Years ago today- Last B717 delivered
Replies: 116
Views: 22548

Re: 15 Years ago today- Last B717 delivered

Are the comments in this thread about cost structure of operating the 717 US-centric? QF (Operated by National Jet) seem happy with their 20 aircraft. Is QF the exception? The vast majority of the remaining 717s in operation are with U.S. carriers and similarly ~80% were ordered by U.S. carriers --...

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by DeltaMD95
Sun Aug 15, 2021 8:55 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: 15 Years ago today- Last B717 delivered
Replies: 116
Views: 22548

Re: 15 Years ago today- Last B717 delivered

I wonder how much better it would have been if they would have stuck the larger MD-80 wing on the 717 like they did the MD-87. I would have liked to have seen a Super 98 style aerodynamic kit developed for retrofit by 2005. Perhaps with MD-11 style winglets, given that Bombardier proved them to be ...

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by DeltaMD95
Sun Aug 15, 2021 8:49 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: 15 Years ago today- Last B717 delivered
Replies: 116
Views: 22548

Re: 15 Years ago today- Last B717 delivered

I had a Delta pilot claim to me one time that Delta was paying more for CRJ's than what Boeing offered them 717s for. I asked him why they wouldn't jump all over that deal. "Because they don't want US to fly them," he said with a sneer. Of course, he didn't mention that they probably want...

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by DeltaMD95
Sat Aug 07, 2021 9:59 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: 15 Years ago today- Last B717 delivered
Replies: 116
Views: 22548

Re: 15 Years ago today- Last B717 delivered

Sadly, it was just a DC-9-30 with a higher bypass ratio engine. Same wing as the DC-9, all in all, same plane except the engines and some cockpit-wise improvements. I believe it had the MD-87 tail. Whole new electrical architecture and changed hydraulic systems as well. New APU and ventilation syst...

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by DeltaMD95
Sun Aug 01, 2021 8:57 pm
Forum: Technical/Operations
Topic: MD-11: Two types of outboard flap tracks fairings
Replies: 9
Views: 1202

Re: MD-11: Two types of outboard flap tracks fairings

I was Googling "MD-11 wing" and noticed that some window shots of the wing show a kind of Boeing/Airbus type outboard flap track fairing on some MD-11 wings and a kind of DC-10 type outboard flap track fairing on other MD-11 wings. Can anyone explain this? One is sort of a cutoff flap tra...

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by DeltaMD95
Mon Jul 26, 2021 9:32 pm
Forum: Technical/Operations
Topic: DC-10 Horizontal Stabilizer Size
Replies: 13
Views: 3542

Re: DC-10 Horizontal Stabilizer Size

CosmicCruiser wrote:
The landing issues were corrected with a LSAS software update.


Out of curiosity, do you recall what year the corrective software update was released?

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by DeltaMD95
Sat Jul 24, 2021 11:30 pm
Forum: Travel, Polls & Preferences
Topic: What was it like piloting the MD-90?
Replies: 6
Views: 902

Re: What was it like piloting the MD-90?

From a passenger’s perspective, seated in row 12 or so, it was the quietest commercial aircraft I have ever been on. Quieter than the 717, IMO. Virtually no engine noise. I will need to compare with the A220 someday, but the MAX and NEO were not any quieter from inside the cabin.

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by DeltaMD95
Fri Jul 23, 2021 10:06 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: UPS fleet
Replies: 176
Views: 51279

Re: UPS fleet

Forgive me for asking, as it relates to the MD-11F fleet with the latest deliveries, what is the breakdown in numbers of GE powered aircraft vs PW? Has one over the other distinguished itself as the better freighter?

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by DeltaMD95
Sun Jul 18, 2021 11:23 pm
Forum: Travel, Polls & Preferences
Topic: Pan Am L-1011-500 and DC-10 routes?
Replies: 19
Views: 3033

Re: Pan Am L-1011-500 and DC-10 routes?

Why did PA order the L15? They wanted a plane for routes where the 747s were too large. Not sure why they picked the L10 over the DC-10. Several reasons...first off, at the time they were shopping for a smaller wide body, there was still a public stigma over the DC-10 following the crash in Chicago...

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by DeltaMD95
Sun Jul 04, 2021 11:13 pm
Forum: Technical/Operations
Topic: MD11 CRT displays
Replies: 25
Views: 6301

Re: MD11 CRT displays

Understanding that Fed Ex and UPS remain dedicated to the MD-11F for at least the medium term, where does Western Global’s outlook stand with the smaller fleet in comparison? Is the expectation that they too will operate for another 10 years? If so, I selfishly hope these three operators will coordi...

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by DeltaMD95
Thu Mar 04, 2021 3:45 am
Forum: Travel, Polls & Preferences
Topic: Why was the 747-400F so unpopular in the '90s
Replies: 4
Views: 915

Re: Why was the 747-400F so unpopular in the '90s

Let’s not forget, the MD-11F took away a good chunk out of the would-be 744F sales, with 53 new builds ordered up to 1997. It’s no surprise the 744F saw an uptick in orders after the MD-11F was no longer offered by Boeing.

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by DeltaMD95
Thu Mar 04, 2021 3:30 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: 20 Years ago- Last MD-11 delivered to Lufthansa Cargo
Replies: 36
Views: 6338

Re: 20 Years ago- Last MD-11 delivered to Lufthansa Cargo

Not only were the costs to make the super-11 a better plane not worth it, McDD simply couldn't afford it. That is why they merged with Boeing in 1997. Affordability is not at all why they merged. They merged so their executives could get rich. The Douglas Aircraft Corp division was not profitable n...

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by DeltaMD95
Tue Mar 02, 2021 4:26 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: 20 Years ago- Last MD-11 delivered to Lufthansa Cargo
Replies: 36
Views: 6338

Re: 20 Years ago- Last MD-11 delivered to Lufthansa Cargo

The MD11 worked out well as a cargo hauler. As a passenger plane, it was stymied by a few factors. The MD11 arrived just a few short years before the twin engine A330 and B777 rolled out. Cockpit commonality was becoming a thing and the MD11 fell short (far short) of the range capabilities McDonnel...

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by DeltaMD95
Fri Feb 26, 2021 4:16 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Last 737 Classic Built 21 years ago.
Replies: 39
Views: 5562

Re: Last 737 Classic Built 21 years ago.

Just like the MAX, 737 classic is synonymous with a deadly design flaw. Perhaps only the DC-10 cargo door compares to these two. In terms of the 737 classic versus the MD-80 series, it would be interesting to see the total number of deliveries through 1991. I believe the disparity between the two fa...

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by DeltaMD95
Thu Feb 04, 2021 2:36 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Boeing Capital Corporation MD-90s
Replies: 29
Views: 9090

Re: Boeing Capital Corporation MD-90s

Could they be used as a testbed for future rear-mounted engine concepts? Used for a freighter certification? Since this is quite unexpected, what are the most probable uses these aircraft were acquired for? Why should there be an MD-90F exactly? The A320p2f was already announced and in a couple of ...

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by DeltaMD95
Fri Jan 22, 2021 3:01 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Boeing Capital Corporation MD-90s
Replies: 29
Views: 9090

Re: Boeing Capital Corporation MD-90s

Could they be used as a testbed for future rear-mounted engine concepts? Used for a freighter certification? Since this is quite unexpected, what are the most probable uses these aircraft were acquired for?

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by DeltaMD95
Fri Jan 22, 2021 2:44 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Updated: DL retired MD-80/90s quickly
Replies: 1226
Views: 276446

Re: Updated: DL retired MD-80/90s quickly

MD-90 N908DA flew BYH-VCV today following in the footsteps of sistership N962DN (12/18/20). Anybody knows who supplied the pilots? Amazing. And nice to see one of the original sweet 16 make the cut. If one had bought stock in the idea of an MD-90 ever flying again after arriving in BYH six months a...

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by DeltaMD95
Sun Jan 17, 2021 4:44 am
Forum: Travel, Polls & Preferences
Topic: Top 5 most missed Airlines ?
Replies: 108
Views: 8055

Re: Top 5 most missed Airlines ?

TWA
Midwest Express
Reno Air
ATA
AA - Bob Crandall era

Honorable mention: DL - Richard Anderson era (for fleet reasons)

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by DeltaMD95
Fri Jan 15, 2021 10:35 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Updated: DL retired MD-80/90s quickly
Replies: 1226
Views: 276446

Re: Updated: DL retired MD-80/90s quickly

MD-90 N908DA flew BYH-VCV today following in the footsteps of sistership N962DN (12/18/20). Anybody knows who supplied the pilots? Amazing. And nice to see one of the original sweet 16 make the cut. If one had bought stock in the idea of an MD-90 ever flying again after arriving in BYH six months a...

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by DeltaMD95
Sat Dec 05, 2020 1:12 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Rumor: DL looking to trade 717s for 737 Max
Replies: 731
Views: 138755

Re: Rumor: DL looking to trade 717s for 737 Max

I’m in the camp that feels Delta is not necessarily in the driver seat. Especially as Boeing wins other orders and recovers. That’s less leverage. No one wants to talk about it, but much of the equity built on the savvy low capex and opportunistic fleet planning during the early ‘10s is out the wind...

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by DeltaMD95
Mon Oct 26, 2020 1:07 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Delta Network Thread - 2020
Replies: 738
Views: 105069

Re: Delta Network Thread - 2020

Looks like the 717 has returned to DTW specific ops, including DTW-PHL and CLT, per FR24. Would be nice to see DTW-ORD return in the future, which is currently a CR9.

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