Search found 416 matches

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by FredrikHAD
Mon Aug 12, 2019 8:32 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Nordic Aviation - 2019
Replies: 878
Views: 139673

Re: Nordic Aviation - 2019

I'm guessing that somebody is paying SAS a sizeable amount of cash to persuade them to send a plane once per week between London Heathrow and Salen/Trysil. A route to London seems far more suited to maybe TUI or Thomas Cook flying into Gatwick instead of SAS to Heathrow SAS did/does operate a winte...

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by FredrikHAD
Sat Aug 10, 2019 8:02 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: S7 flight runs off end of runway, barely takes off
Replies: 84
Views: 20417

Re: S7 flight runs off end of runway, barely takes off

If it was a more common problem, there would be a technical solution. TCAS/ADS-B could be used as a base, placing a transmitter at each runway threshold. The system would realize before takeoff was even initiated that something was off if calculations or starting point was incorrect. In case of lack...

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by FredrikHAD
Fri Aug 09, 2019 9:34 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: S7 flight runs off end of runway, barely takes off
Replies: 84
Views: 20417

Re: S7 flight runs off end of runway, barely takes off

Regardless of what the computer tells you, your instincts should be kicking in, hang on a moment something doesn't seem right - what is happening and what do I need to do about it? cpd.....you cant fly transport category aircraft by the seat of your pants. You must rely on what the aircraft tells y...

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by FredrikHAD
Thu Aug 08, 2019 8:30 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: First full electric airline service
Replies: 24
Views: 3241

Re: First full electric airline service

Westray to Papa Westray is about as far as it is practical to operate an electric airliner. Anything much longer and the weight of batteries will make it prohibitive. Electric doesn’t equal batteries. Methanol, ethanol, hydrogen or any other suitable fuel can be fed into fuel cells producing electr...

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by FredrikHAD
Thu Aug 08, 2019 8:02 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: First full electric airline service
Replies: 24
Views: 3241

Re: First full electric airline service

Westray to Papa Westray is about as far as it is practical to operate an electric airliner. Anything much longer and the weight of batteries will make it prohibitive. Electric doesn’t equal batteries. Methanol, ethanol, hydrogen or any other suitable fuel can be fed into fuel cells producing electr...

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by FredrikHAD
Thu Aug 08, 2019 7:50 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Nordic Aviation - 2019
Replies: 878
Views: 139673

Re: Nordic Aviation - 2019

The Swedish transport agency has not yet published figures for all airports in July 2019. However, I've had a look at the number of domestic pax at each Swedish airport in June 2019 and compared against June 2018. I've ignored airports where there were structural changes in the domestic market - e....

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by FredrikHAD
Sat Jul 27, 2019 11:13 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Airbus Reveals Hybrid-Electric 'Bird Of Prey' Airliner Concept
Replies: 98
Views: 11845

Re: Airbus Reveals Hybrid-Electric 'Bird Of Prey' Airliner Concept

If the gas turbine can fully supply power to the engines, why have heavy, space consuming batteries in the first place? The gas turbine can only provide enough electricity for cruise, not for the takeoff and climb. The batteries provide the extra power required for the climb stage. Batteries allow ...

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by FredrikHAD
Fri Jul 26, 2019 9:21 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: GippsAero GA8 Airvan Grounded in Australia, New Zealand, and Europe
Replies: 7
Views: 2304

Re: GippsAero GA8 Airvan Grounded in Australia, New Zealand, and Europe

Swedish authorities also lifted the grounding. The Swedish AIB says the plane was for some unknown reason exposed to massive G forces that lead to the rear stab and fin being torn off along with part of a wing. They state that nothing seems to have been wrong with the model as such (no apparent desi...

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by FredrikHAD
Fri Jul 26, 2019 7:48 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Airbus Reveals Hybrid-Electric 'Bird Of Prey' Airliner Concept
Replies: 98
Views: 11845

Re: Airbus Reveals Hybrid-Electric 'Bird Of Prey' Airliner Concept

How big, heavy, and power consuming do you think an electric motor needs to be today to make the horsepower needed to turn a fan that makes 20000-30000 lbs of thrust. Electric motors are already lighter at the same horsepower level. Gas turbines can not spin faster to double their rated power for a...

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by FredrikHAD
Wed Jul 24, 2019 6:45 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Airbus Reveals Hybrid-Electric 'Bird Of Prey' Airliner Concept
Replies: 98
Views: 11845

Re: Airbus Reveals Hybrid-Electric 'Bird Of Prey' Airliner Concept

Is electric aviation even possible? Weight is going to be a nightmare - take a look at ground transport: any BEV is significantly heavier than competing vehicles in its class. Sure, I have previously shown that using components from the car industry in mass production right now you can convert an A...

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by FredrikHAD
Tue Jul 23, 2019 9:49 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: US Commercial Aviation Fuel Consumption
Replies: 34
Views: 2824

Re: US Commercial Aviation Fuel Consumption

Phil Are you serious about trains topping out at 110mph. We had trains doing 125mph in 1975. I think that the new trains since 2014 do 140mph. Sorry to interfere, you didn`t ask me, but I got something to add: it is a well-established common wisdom that trains become inefficient at speeds over 160 ...

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by FredrikHAD
Tue Jul 23, 2019 9:19 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Airbus Reveals Hybrid-Electric 'Bird Of Prey' Airliner Concept
Replies: 98
Views: 11845

Re: Airbus Reveals Hybrid-Electric 'Bird Of Prey' Airliner Concept

I get upset when someone touts an electric vehicle as cleaner, greener, more sustainable. It depends on where the electricity comes from, and in the US at least, its mostly fossil fuels. My daily driver is a Tesla, but I have some gasoline cars too. I tell people I have three oil powered cars, and ...

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by FredrikHAD
Tue Jul 23, 2019 8:21 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Airbus Reveals Hybrid-Electric 'Bird Of Prey' Airliner Concept
Replies: 98
Views: 11845

Re: Airbus Reveals Hybrid-Electric 'Bird Of Prey' Airliner Concept

clickhappy wrote:
Still no cloaking device.

Emmet is reluctant to release the flux condenser for industrial use (afraid it will be used for time travel), and as it’s needed for cloaking, it’s a no-go for now.

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by FredrikHAD
Mon Jul 22, 2019 9:22 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Passenger is ordered to pay 172G for causing early landing while drunk
Replies: 37
Views: 10395

Re: Passenger is ordered to pay 172G for causing early landing while drunk

I didn't understand what you mean with the car manufacturers. In post #7, VirginFlyer went on a rant about incorrect units used (G for thousand is not correct as it stands for giga, k/kilo means a thousand which would seem correct). I wanted to second him on that, mentioning that in my Volvo’s spee...

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by FredrikHAD
Sun Jul 21, 2019 4:48 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: GippsAero GA8 Airvan Grounded in Australia, New Zealand, and Europe
Replies: 7
Views: 2304

Re: GippsAero GA8 Airvan Grounded in Australia, New Zealand, and Europe

As mentioned, the fact that about half the wing was missing during the spinning descent is not established as either cause of the crash nor the effect of something else. There were 8 parachutists and one pilot on board and the pilot had radioed that they were ready to jump. Therefore flight should h...

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by FredrikHAD
Fri Jul 19, 2019 10:18 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Plane Crash at TKK (Chuuk, FSM) - Air Niugini
Replies: 156
Views: 39380

Re: Plane Crash at TKK (Chuuk, FSM) - Air Niugini

It sure would be interesting to see the video, but I’m not sure how it can improve pilot training. I hope pilots are already tought not to ignore 16 warnings before committing to land ;) Jokes aside, of course there may be lessons learned. Do we know why the pax that was killed had no seatbelt? Did...

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by FredrikHAD
Thu Jul 18, 2019 5:12 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Plane Crash at TKK (Chuuk, FSM) - Air Niugini
Replies: 156
Views: 39380

Re: Plane Crash at TKK (Chuuk, FSM) - Air Niugini

http://avherald.com/h?article=4be42f25/0000&opt=0 Final report released today. To give the ultra-short version, the pilots put the plane in a way-too-fast descent after going into IMC and ignored 16 warnings they were given. The dead pax was wearing no seatbelt and died of blunt force trauma, a...

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by FredrikHAD
Thu Jul 18, 2019 8:01 am
Forum: Technical/Operations
Topic: Solar batteries on airliner skin
Replies: 27
Views: 2558

Re: Solar batteries on airliner skin

Add in the system safety aspect of having to have redundancy in all of this and it really isn't practical. As stated, there’s not enough energy ro go around, but the redundancy would not be an issue, that’s the beauty with electric systems. You can just put them in parallell with protection circuit...

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by FredrikHAD
Wed Jul 17, 2019 6:04 pm
Forum: Technical/Operations
Topic: Solar batteries on airliner skin
Replies: 27
Views: 2558

Re: Solar batteries on airliner skin

Ha anyone taken into account that airliners use some of the compressed air for pressurization and the heat for heating the cabin and wing an engine inlet deicing? On an electric plane, you will need to use electric power for compressing air, cabin heating and deicing in absence of jet engine heat. ...

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by FredrikHAD
Tue Jul 16, 2019 8:48 am
Forum: Technical/Operations
Topic: Solar batteries on airliner skin
Replies: 27
Views: 2558

Re: Solar batteries on airliner skin

The problem with electric jets is the propulsion itself. Propellers can pretty easily be powered with electric motors, but rushing air through a turbine at supersonic speeds (which you need in order to get to jet airliner speeds) is not very easily done.

/Fredrik

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by FredrikHAD
Thu Jul 11, 2019 8:36 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Passenger opens exit door
Replies: 14
Views: 3379

Re: Passenger opens exit door

Shocked that the passenger was allowed to reboard the next day. If it were up to me she'd be swimming home. The article doesn’t state explicitly that the woman who opened the door was allowed to reboard, just that ”the passengers” reboarded the following day. If she indeed was on board the second t...

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by FredrikHAD
Tue Jul 09, 2019 6:30 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: KLM 747-400ERF loses flap during approach
Replies: 34
Views: 7821

Re: KLM 747-400ERF loses flap during approach

That flap looks astonishingly intact, considering it fell from considerable hight. It's pretty light (interior is honeycomb foam), so terminal velocity is not that high and it's meant to take quite a bit of force. I'm astonished that the two large pieces of metal just snapped like that. Corrosion p...

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by FredrikHAD
Tue Jul 09, 2019 6:05 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Passenger is ordered to pay 172G for causing early landing while drunk
Replies: 37
Views: 10395

Re: Passenger is ordered to pay 172G for causing early landing while drunk

The man gets drunk and the judge decides to ruin his life because of it? You guys agree with this? Disgusting. How do you know this ruins his life? Citation please. According to Hervey Cleckley it's often the parents or the wives who make up for the damage. Spacepope is right. It may ruin his fathe...

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by FredrikHAD
Sat Jul 06, 2019 7:41 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Nordic Aviation - 2019
Replies: 878
Views: 139673

Re: Nordic Aviation - 2019

BRA is getting rid of their Avros, but they have now hinted that they have some jets on busy routes in the future. But if that means A220s, E-jets, CRJs or something else is unknown so far. Any idea of when they will go? I see SE-DSO/P/T are already retired (stored). I guess the rest will go as the...

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by FredrikHAD
Wed Jul 03, 2019 11:25 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Nordic Aviation - 2019
Replies: 878
Views: 139673

Re: Nordic Aviation - 2019

I can only answer for Denmark. No, Flygskam is not that wide spread here. Nor is it growing that much. One thing that "helps" is that our train network is very outdated. The infrastructure is breaking down all the time, the InterCity trains and trains to Germany are from the late 80's-ear...

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by FredrikHAD
Sat Jun 29, 2019 8:58 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Angara Airlines An-24 crashes on landing
Replies: 11
Views: 3287

Re: Angara Airlines An-24 crashes on landing

Video reveals (thanks to the beautifully coloured rooftops) that the approach speed was 153 knots or there about. A tad fast perhaps... Obviously there might be a reason for that. It has been suggested that flaps were set to 5˚ due to TOGA capabilities with one engine out. Even the An-24 should be a...

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by FredrikHAD
Wed Jun 26, 2019 7:22 pm
Forum: Non-Aviation
Topic: Israel reports partially GPS signal loss
Replies: 11
Views: 3752

Re: Israel reports partially GPS signal loss

https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2019/03/18/norway-a64852

Jamming GPS signals in specific areas isn’t that hard. You basically transmit garbage on the same frequencies that GPS systems use, with a directional antennae.

/Fredrik
-->

Russia seems eager to show their ability to jam GPS signals as well:

https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2019/03/18/norway-a64852

Jamming GPS signals in specific areas isn’t that hard. You basically transmit garbage on the same frequencies that GPS systems use, with a directional antennae.

/Fredrik

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by FredrikHAD
Mon Jun 24, 2019 7:41 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Brussels Airlines Nine Hour Flight to Nowhere
Replies: 11
Views: 4808

Re: Brussels Airlines Nine Hour Flight to Nowhere

Ziyulu wrote:
Didn't NZ do something similar a few months ago?

Yup, just looked it up:
https://www.airliners.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1415213

It was a flight from NewZealand to China. It seems this reason for returns isn’t all that unique.

/Fredrik

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by FredrikHAD
Sat Jun 22, 2019 6:08 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: AC Passenger left on plane at remote stand at YYZ
Replies: 128
Views: 19307

Re: AC Passenger left on plane at remote stand at YYZ

If the passenger had paid attention during the safety briefing and read the card they should have no pro.blem opening a door and popping the slide. Plus they have the luxury of time because it's not a true emergency. Opening a door would be easy, but the slides aren’t armed after the FA’s disarm th...

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by FredrikHAD
Sun Jun 09, 2019 8:27 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: F50 Questions
Replies: 48
Views: 7164

Re: F50 Questions

Maybe I should try to fly the Fokker 50 one more time in the near future. The type still flies in Sweden, not too far from the Netherlands. BRA (Braathens regional airlines) has four, all in service, flying more or less daily to some destinations. I used to fly them from HAD when Skyways was still ...

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by FredrikHAD
Wed May 22, 2019 9:03 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: United Tries to Seat 2-,4-,6-Year Old Children Separate from Parents
Replies: 105
Views: 13439

Re: United Tries to Seat 2-,4-,6-Year Old Children Separate from Parents

Who would be responsible for making sure the 2 year old toddler stays in the seat during t/o and landing? (Assuming paid seats and family split up by crew.) I can easily imagine a 2 yo getting out of the seat just like that.

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by FredrikHAD
Fri May 17, 2019 7:38 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Nordic Aviation - 2019
Replies: 878
Views: 139673

Re: Nordic Aviation - 2019

The future of ARN is causing tension in the Swedish government. The social democrats want to expand Arlanda and make it the biggest airport in the nordics, including the construction of a 4th runway and preparations for a 5th. Their coalition partner, the greens, are not too fond of the plans. Link...

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by FredrikHAD
Fri May 17, 2019 7:24 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Nordic Aviation - 2019
Replies: 878
Views: 139673

Re: Nordic Aviation - 2019

I know you can walk landside from T2 to T5 via Sky City. Is it possible for them to make an airside connection so it effectively becomes one big terminal? They do have a bus transfer which can take you between T2 and T5 I belive, airside that is. Airside? There is the shuttle landside between all t...

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by FredrikHAD
Mon May 13, 2019 7:39 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Challenger 601 down - Vegas to Monterrey
Replies: 46
Views: 11590

Re: Challenger 601 down - Vegas to Monterrey

Wow that wreckage picture is startling. To imagine an airplane all the way up at FL400 or higher to land pancaked with what appears to be little to no forward motion. Almost kind of reminds me how AF447 was said to have pancaked into the ocean. There was a CRJ-200 that crashed in northern Norway a ...

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by FredrikHAD
Wed May 08, 2019 4:37 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Updated: Aeroflot 1492 SSJ100 fire at Moscow (SVO) - 40+ confirmed dead
Replies: 818
Views: 142303

Re: Updated: Aeroflot 1492 SSJ100 fire at Moscow (SVO) - 40+ confirmed dead

And the video is agonizing!! I mean, I can't tell you how many times I screamed in my mind about the fire response. But, then I had to account for getting the vehicle in drive, and getting the vehicle to the scene. Those trucks dont go from zero to 60 in 3 seconds. In the 80's and 90's, ARFF rules ...

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by FredrikHAD
Wed May 08, 2019 4:20 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Updated: Aeroflot 1492 SSJ100 fire at Moscow (SVO) - 40+ confirmed dead
Replies: 818
Views: 142303

Re: Updated: Aeroflot 1492 SSJ100 fire at Moscow (SVO) - 40+ confirmed dead

What would happen if the pilot asked for emergency crew, and it the end, the landing was routine and nothing bad happened, therefore fire fighters are not needed? In another forum they asked if the pilots or the airline would receive a fine for having called a emergency when it wasn't needed. What ...

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by FredrikHAD
Tue May 07, 2019 8:39 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Why was El Al 1862 doomed to crash?
Replies: 15
Views: 4903

Re: Why was El Al 1862 doomed to crash?

acjbbj wrote:
Could they have used right Rudder to keep it level during descent?

No, not if the aircraft is moving too slow. A wing that stalls will generate no lift at all and will drop no matter how much rudder you use. In this particular case, ”too slow” means slower than the stall speed of the damaged wing.

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by FredrikHAD
Tue May 07, 2019 7:17 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Why was El Al 1862 doomed to crash?
Replies: 15
Views: 4903

Re: Why was El Al 1862 doomed to crash?

Not only were the slats inop, but I believe there was quite some damage to the right wing, worsening lift characteristics even further. As mentioned, it was flyable at high speed, but they had no idea and were probably more concerned about the fire hazard than problems with lift. They could probaby ...

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by FredrikHAD
Mon May 06, 2019 8:35 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Updated: Aeroflot 1492 SSJ100 fire at Moscow (SVO) - 40+ confirmed dead
Replies: 818
Views: 142303

Re: Updated: Aeroflot 1492 SSJ100 fire at Moscow (SVO) - 40+ confirmed dead

1) Having seen fire crews deployed for emergency landings, they always approach the aircraft from the rear, presumably to prevent them from being hit by a high-speed out-of-control plane. This means that even at high road-vehicle speeds, they have to catch up with a target that passes them at up to...

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by FredrikHAD
Sun May 05, 2019 10:13 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Updated: Aeroflot 1492 SSJ100 fire at Moscow (SVO) - 40+ confirmed dead
Replies: 818
Views: 142303

Re: Aeroflot SSJ100 on fire at Moscow (SVO)

Something else one can see on this image (since I've read a few comments about the fire brigade reacting slowly): They obviously had fire engines on standby, since there's one already fighting the fire while the evacuation is in progress (i.e. seconds after the plane came to rest). You just can't s...

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by FredrikHAD
Sun May 05, 2019 9:57 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Updated: Aeroflot 1492 SSJ100 fire at Moscow (SVO) - 40+ confirmed dead
Replies: 818
Views: 142303

Re: Aeroflot SSJ100 on fire at Moscow (SVO)

As far as I understand, of the 41 casualties, there are 40 passengers (including 2 children) and 1 male flight attendant. ... Was it due to the smoke or the heat? Normally smoke is what kills you, or the carbon monoxide/dioxide to be specific, but other gases may come in play as well. In this case,...

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by FredrikHAD
Sun May 05, 2019 8:19 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Updated: Aeroflot 1492 SSJ100 fire at Moscow (SVO) - 40+ confirmed dead
Replies: 818
Views: 142303

Re: Aeroflot SSJ100 on fire at Moscow (SVO)

In the BA 777 fire at LAS a couple of years ago, fire engines swarmed the aircraft in no time compared to this. There, the fire crew ran to their engines even before the alarm sounded because they heard a noise that sounded "no good". Here, the pilots lost comms, and that alone should have...

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by FredrikHAD
Sun May 05, 2019 7:05 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Nordic Aviation - 2019
Replies: 878
Views: 139673

Re: Nordic Aviation - 2019

Will BRA renrew the airworthyness certificates for their RJ100/85s? Is that a complicated and expensive process or just a formality? I stumbled on this table at Transportstyrelsen (sort of Swedish FAA). Registrerade luftfartyg Regbet Typ Tillvnr Luftvärdighetshandling giltig t.o.m. Roll SE-DSO AVRO-...

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by FredrikHAD
Sat May 04, 2019 10:16 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Nordic Aviation - 2019
Replies: 878
Views: 139673

Re: Nordic Aviation - 2019

Glider SE-UUL, LAK17-AT, landed on semi-busy highway 41 a few km south of Borås May 4th at 13:22. Two cars received minor damages and no one was hurt. The glider seems somewhat ruffed up, but could be repairable. The AT version is engine powered (self sustaining), but was towed by SE-FVZ, PA-25 Pawn...

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by FredrikHAD
Sat Apr 27, 2019 8:42 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Nordic Aviation - 2019
Replies: 878
Views: 139673

Re: Nordic Aviation - 2019

There are rumours that one of them is Easyjet, but thanks for revealing the other! :D Looking forward to see A350s in Sälen! Why not Emirates hauling snow-adventure seeking arabs to the mysterious dark and cold north with some A380s! Jokes aside, a few days ago I would have bet on BRA. They usually...

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by FredrikHAD
Sat Apr 27, 2019 10:38 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Nordic Aviation - 2019
Replies: 878
Views: 139673

Re: Nordic Aviation - 2019

Sälen airport now claims that there are two airlines that will start flying there once the airport opens. They have not revealed which airlines though. Gotta be DL to DTW :duck: There are rumours that one of them is Easyjet, but thanks for revealing the other! :D Looking forward to see A350s in Säl...

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by FredrikHAD
Fri Apr 26, 2019 10:01 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Nordic Aviation - 2019
Replies: 878
Views: 139673

Re: Nordic Aviation - 2019

BRA has 13 ATR-72, 10 RJ 100 and 2 RJ 85. Scrapping half the fleet will lead to fewer destinations. Unless more ATRs are brought in there is exactly one less ATR per domestic destination they fly to (14), not counting JKG but counting HEL. There are four categories of destinations: Short and medium ...

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by FredrikHAD
Fri Apr 26, 2019 8:26 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Nordic Aviation - 2019
Replies: 878
Views: 139673

Re: Nordic Aviation - 2019

BRA has just announced that they are laying off 363 employees. Severance negotiations are starting immediately. During 2019-2020 they will start phasing out "older jets" and do more of the flying with turboprops. They blame the reduction in the Swedish Domestic airline market. So they wen...

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by FredrikHAD
Tue Apr 16, 2019 8:43 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Airport Berlin-Schönefeld (SXF) currently closed because of an accident
Replies: 29
Views: 9021

Re: Airport Berlin-Schönefeld (SXF) currently closed because of an accident

It seems even more similar to the Astana E190 last November, with severe flight control issues after heavy maintenance at Lisbon.

http://avherald.com/h?article=4c04438e&opt=1

/Fredrik

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by FredrikHAD
Sun Mar 31, 2019 7:42 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Weird Flight path
Replies: 14
Views: 2477

Re: Weird Flight path

There are all sorts of weird flight patterns. https://media.wired.com/photos/59837dd10ec7cc35b6d79806/master/w_942,c_limit/PlaneDrawing.jpg https://mondrian.mashable.com/uploads%252Fcard%252Fimage%252F937971%252F89f44a5a-2be3-45d2-b906-cf8da58cfb3d.png%252F950x534__filters%253Aquality%252890%2529.png

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