Search found 2885 matches

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by JayinKitsap
Fri May 13, 2022 6:04 pm
Forum: Military Aviation & Space Flight
Topic: What would you have spent the B-2 money on?
Replies: 108
Views: 5234

Re: What would you have spent the B-2 money on?

Congress is considering adding more Arleigh Burke's. Similarly, in subs they are keeping 2 Virginias a year and 1 D5 boat each year, up from just 2 subs a year of previous. The Navy is happy with the Burke class, not happy with the LCS, and wants to see the Constitution in service before ramping tha...

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by JayinKitsap
Fri May 13, 2022 1:13 am
Forum: Military Aviation & Space Flight
Topic: Boeing KC-46 News, Production and Delivery Thread - 2022
Replies: 38
Views: 8397

Re: Boeing KC-46 News, Production and Delivery Thread - 2022

The KC-46 has now done the longest endurance tanker flight, 24.2 hours. I'm sort of surprised that we didn't do 36 hour mission tests back in the hot parts of the cold war. What are the longest ferry flight lengths, and say B-52 flights. https://www.airforcemag.com/kc-46-sets-amc-endurance-record-wi...

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by JayinKitsap
Fri May 13, 2022 1:06 am
Forum: Military Aviation & Space Flight
Topic: What would you have spent the B-2 money on?
Replies: 108
Views: 5234

Re: What would you have spent the B-2 money on?

It is a big crack up :roll: Looks like some grift involved with the LCS class that's not all it's cracked up to be; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=beNUTnJjPNI This is a real classic, yes a lot of amatuer hour but he has some interesting facts. As a structural I see right away where the problem is. ...

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by JayinKitsap
Fri May 13, 2022 12:21 am
Forum: Military Aviation & Space Flight
Topic: What would you have spent the B-2 money on?
Replies: 108
Views: 5234

Re: What would you have spent the B-2 money on?

This overstatement is quite visible in Ukraine right now, both sides have Soviet equipment, Ukraine upped their game since 2014 but the Russians don't look like a top 3 military, a lot due to the Russians lack of training and a shaky supply chain. It has very little to do with training or supply ch...

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by JayinKitsap
Thu May 12, 2022 8:39 am
Forum: Military Aviation & Space Flight
Topic: What would you have spent the B-2 money on?
Replies: 108
Views: 5234

Re: What would you have spent the B-2 money on?

The thing is that I don't know if the last two months of watching the Russians flounder in Ukraine really puts them in the "first world adversaries" bin. The US overstates the capability of potential adversaries to keep the huge military budgets and research and development flowing. My fa...

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by JayinKitsap
Thu May 12, 2022 2:00 am
Forum: Military Aviation & Space Flight
Topic: What would you have spent the B-2 money on?
Replies: 108
Views: 5234

Re: What would you have spent the B-2 money on?

[ Currently, the LCS and DDG-1000 programs are the only ones where the Navy would prefer for them all to "go away". Replacing the combining gear on the Independence is a warranty issue, with Lockmart basically paying for the overhaul. I thought Lockmart was the Freedom class, and the Indy...

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by JayinKitsap
Tue May 10, 2022 5:49 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Boeing moving HQ to Arlington, VA
Replies: 242
Views: 30265

Re: Boeing moving HQ to Arlington, VA

just read that there was a robbery/murder in an upscale neighborhood of Chicago. The local media claimed that one of the reasons comapnies like Boeing are leaving the Chicago area is that they feel it is unsafe for their employees. Dont shoot me, Im just the messenger. Everyone seems to be jumping ...

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by JayinKitsap
Mon May 09, 2022 8:27 pm
Forum: Military Aviation & Space Flight
Topic: Russian Invasion of Ukraine - Military Aviation News and Discussion Thread
Replies: 945
Views: 125733

Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine - Military Aviation News and Discussion Thread

Fighters generally cannot accept fuel faster than 1,000 lb/minute. Hose & Drogue can provide between 1,500 lb to 2,000 lb/minute. Booms can supply up to 6,000 lb per minute. A B-52 takes up to 312 K of fuel, so refueling takes 40 to 45 minutes. Many hours from a Hose & Drogue. A C-17 takes u...

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by JayinKitsap
Mon May 09, 2022 8:09 pm
Forum: Military Aviation & Space Flight
Topic: What would you have spent the B-2 money on?
Replies: 108
Views: 5234

Re: What would you have spent the B-2 money on?

The US Navy is retiring LCS hulls as fast as it can. The biggest constrain is whether Congress will let the USN retire ships that are so new and cost so much when built. I won't join in but I see you are getting a lot of push back from others on this subject. I politely don't think that's true. I t...

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by JayinKitsap
Sun May 08, 2022 7:50 pm
Forum: Military Aviation & Space Flight
Topic: What would you have spent the B-2 money on?
Replies: 108
Views: 5234

Re: What would you have spent the B-2 money on?

Back to the OP, at the time of conception the B-2 was a vital program providing the tip of the spear, a huge leap in stealth tech. It was going to be a large program but the unit costs got crazy so the fleet became 32 I recall. Enough for the mission after the Soviet Union collapsed, but other airc...

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by JayinKitsap
Sun May 08, 2022 7:48 pm
Forum: Military Aviation & Space Flight
Topic: New J-20 Variant: A Two Seat Stealth Fighter
Replies: 30
Views: 5893

Re: New J-20 Variant: A Two Seat Stealth Fighter

The Ukraine theater is throwing a lot of assumptions in the dumpster. Ukraine has somewhere less than 50 TB-2 drones, they still have many flying after 2.5 months of fighting. It is a 1,500 lb MTOW, 40 foot wingspan 70 knot cruise, 120 knot max speed, 100 HP engine. This speed is akin to the Fairey ...

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by JayinKitsap
Sun May 08, 2022 7:26 pm
Forum: Military Aviation & Space Flight
Topic: What would you have spent the B-2 money on?
Replies: 108
Views: 5234

Re: What would you have spent the B-2 money on?

Back to the OP, at the time of conception the B-2 was a vital program providing the tip of the spear, a huge leap in stealth tech. It was going to be a large program but the unit costs got crazy so the fleet became 32 I recall. Enough for the mission after the Soviet Union collapsed, but other aircr...

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by JayinKitsap
Wed May 04, 2022 6:44 pm
Forum: Military Aviation & Space Flight
Topic: T-7A Red Hawk News and Discussion Thread
Replies: 173
Views: 38263

Re: T-7A Red Hawk News and Discussion Thread

DOD sometime prior to the KC-46 bidding shifted the terms of the contract from more risk sharing in the development and production phase. Before many programs were basically true cost + a fixed margin for profit. The KC-46 RFP was a very much fixed price contract for both development and production,...

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by JayinKitsap
Sat Apr 30, 2022 5:45 am
Forum: Military Aviation & Space Flight
Topic: German Heavy Lift Helicopter Replacement Program News and Discussion Thread
Replies: 364
Views: 100420

Re: German Heavy Lift Helicopter Replacement Program News and Discussion Thread

Railroad locomotives are having the same thing happen, no railroad wants to buy new, besides the old metal is probably better castings, forgings, and materials compared to the new stuff with a remaining life of decades. I expect the B-52 work to gradually include everyting like wing skin replacemen...

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by JayinKitsap
Sat Apr 30, 2022 1:21 am
Forum: Military Aviation & Space Flight
Topic: German Heavy Lift Helicopter Replacement Program News and Discussion Thread
Replies: 364
Views: 100420

Re: German Heavy Lift Helicopter Replacement Program News and Discussion Thread

Janes noted that CH-47 Block 2 Lot 1 begins production The word "production" has a different connotation for some of us. As in new built. Looks like what they are doing is retrofit work . . . Taking an existing frame and swapping out with newer, better components. bt I didn't mention that...

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by JayinKitsap
Fri Apr 29, 2022 6:54 pm
Forum: Military Aviation & Space Flight
Topic: German Heavy Lift Helicopter Replacement Program News and Discussion Thread
Replies: 364
Views: 100420

Re: German Heavy Lift Helicopter Replacement Program News and Discussion Thread

Both Germany and Boeing have "no comment" but several sites including Flightglobal have articles indicating that the Chinook will get an order for 60, formal announcement next week as it will come to the "floor". https://www.inquirer.com/business/boeing-germany-chinook-ukraine-20...

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by JayinKitsap
Thu Apr 21, 2022 5:13 am
Forum: Military Aviation & Space Flight
Topic: Boeing MQ-25 News and Discussion Thread
Replies: 140
Views: 29913

Re: Boeing MQ-25 News and Discussion Thread

I suspect the Navy is treating the specs as classified for now. I am sure they had a ton of data back at the RFP stage. No reason for Boeing or the Navy to divulge anything beyond the RFP

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by JayinKitsap
Mon Apr 18, 2022 4:38 am
Forum: Military Aviation & Space Flight
Topic: German Heavy Lift Helicopter Replacement Program News and Discussion Thread
Replies: 364
Views: 100420

Re: German Heavy Lift Helicopter Replacement Program News and Discussion Thread

Gilday started as CNO in August 2019, per the link below there were 5 deployments, yes just FIVE, prior to him being CNO. LCS-1 was commisioned in 2008, LCS-2 in Jan 10, LCS-3 9/12, LCS-4 5/14, LCS-6 12/15, LCS-7 10/16, LCS-8 9/16, LCS-9 12/17, LCS-10 10/17, LCS-11 11/18, LCS-12 2/18, LCS-13 1/19, L...

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by JayinKitsap
Sun Apr 17, 2022 3:17 am
Forum: Military Aviation & Space Flight
Topic: Boeing MQ-25 News and Discussion Thread
Replies: 140
Views: 29913

Re: Boeing MQ-25 News and Discussion Thread

Is the passing gas some form of booster rocket? :cry2: :roll: :praise: The Sea Air Space convention is going on, an article and interview video. https://www.navalnews.com/event-news/sea-air-space-2022/2022/04/video-mq-25-stingray-uas-program-update-at-sea-air-space-2022/ It seems like they want to g...

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by JayinKitsap
Fri Apr 15, 2022 6:40 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Airbus A220 Sales Campaign Thread - 2022
Replies: 314
Views: 66786

Re: Airbus A220 Sales Campaign Thread - 2022

Heck, Spirit would love to do more stuffing, so expanding production to 240/year is a non-issue. Lightsaber Rate 15 is a minimum for the program to have long term success, rate 20 (240/year) would be quite healthy for the program. Until the recent huge jumps in backlog over the last decade +, optim...

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by JayinKitsap
Fri Apr 15, 2022 6:12 pm
Forum: Military Aviation & Space Flight
Topic: Re-Engine the C-130
Replies: 53
Views: 5019

Re: Re-Engine the C-130

And the original engine when used on the osprey develops 6000 hp. Allison/RR could easily bump the power on those 2100s if requested, but the roughly similar hp ratings between the H and J Herks is a feature, not a bug. Sure. I understood that. I was really wondering of the three turbine engines th...

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by JayinKitsap
Fri Apr 15, 2022 6:07 pm
Forum: Military Aviation & Space Flight
Topic: Re-Engine the C-130
Replies: 53
Views: 5019

Re: Re-Engine the C-130

Wouldn't new engines require a recertification of the airframe, new engine controls, and change to the avionics? This would essentially be a new variant of the H model requiring differences training as well? On top of all this, the new engine would also the aforementioned wings and engine mounts, g...

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by JayinKitsap
Thu Apr 14, 2022 8:47 pm
Forum: Military Aviation & Space Flight
Topic: Russian Invasion of Ukraine - Military Aviation News and Discussion Thread
Replies: 945
Views: 125733

Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine - Military Aviation News and Discussion Thread

The Russian Defense Ministry confirms the the cruiser Moskva has suffered sever damage and has been abandoned in the Black Sea. The governor of Odessa claims that it was hit by Neptune anti-ship missiles. It will be interesting to see if this claim is true or if its a case of poor ammo handling/dam...

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by JayinKitsap
Tue Apr 12, 2022 6:36 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Dash 8 life extended
Replies: 23
Views: 5744

Re: Q400 life extended

They haven't yet but I only see a few deliveries in 2022, when they settled with the Union in October 2021 production was only going to complete the few frames remaining and the downsview lease expired at the end of 2021. Earlier in 21 they paused production for a number of months due to lack of or...

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by JayinKitsap
Mon Apr 11, 2022 10:41 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Dash 8 life extended
Replies: 23
Views: 5744

Re: Q400 life extended

if and when they can they'll announce the 400. production line is closed. if they can't extend the life of Q400s they have little opportunity for revenue generation. They haven't yet but I only see a few deliveries in 2022, when they settled with the Union in October 2021 production was only going ...

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by JayinKitsap
Mon Apr 11, 2022 10:03 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Aircraft Certification Problems
Replies: 25
Views: 3263

Re: Aircraft Certification Problems

The SkyCourier is a clean sheet and a very basic airplane for the 9 and 19 seat category, it still took months and months longer than Cessna expected. If the A321XLR does require a clean sheet certification while the A321LR didn't just a bit earlier it basically means that grandfathering is effectiv...

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by JayinKitsap
Mon Apr 11, 2022 4:11 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Dash 8 life extended
Replies: 23
Views: 5744

Re: Q400 life extended

Yes, it is about the Dash 8-100 a 30 pax plane, there are no in production planes in that size range nor prospects for any as the market is small.

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by JayinKitsap
Mon Apr 11, 2022 7:11 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Why hasn't the A330NEO been nearly as successful as the A330ceo?
Replies: 200
Views: 41591

Re: Why hasn't the A330NEO been nearly as successful as the A330ceo?

Besides, wide-bodies do longer runs; 36,000 cycles should be plenty for a healthy resale market. So the A330NEO must overcome used 787 sales. As must new 787 sales (which has the advantage of the 787-10). Lightsaber As you have noted previously the used market is saturated at this point, until volu...

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by JayinKitsap
Wed Apr 06, 2022 8:19 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Why hasn't the A330NEO been nearly as successful as the A330ceo?
Replies: 200
Views: 41591

Re: Why hasn't the A330NEO been nearly as successful as the A330ceo?

Sales stats are an excellent proxy for performance. Airlines look at all of the available aircraft to perform a host of routes along with the best data on costs and demand available. Back in 2008 the A330 was in its heyday when the 7 Late 7 was trying to obtain EIS and production ramp. Orders for th...

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by JayinKitsap
Sun Apr 03, 2022 6:10 pm
Forum: Military Aviation & Space Flight
Topic: Russian Invasion of Ukraine - Military Aviation News and Discussion Thread
Replies: 945
Views: 125733

Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine - Military Aviation News and Discussion Thread

Ukrainian forces at Hostomel airport https://twitter.com/Osinttechnical/status/1510391122379608067 This is just an airport. It can be rebuilt. Not so much human beings or (un)civil societies. Over and over, the terror Russia's barbaric forces unleash to destroy not only bodies but also souls has be...

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by JayinKitsap
Fri Apr 01, 2022 4:58 am
Forum: Military Aviation & Space Flight
Topic: Lockheed reveals new LMXT refueling tanker
Replies: 334
Views: 44715

Re: Lockheed reveals new LMXT refueling tanker

Speculating only, but the bean counters may have realized that a sole source follow on contract has specific rules in the FARs on pricing increases. However, if a competative bid, Boeing could probably tuck in the estimates of LM's cost to certify into their pricing, they only have to be the next lo...

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by JayinKitsap
Sun Mar 27, 2022 8:06 pm
Forum: Military Aviation & Space Flight
Topic: Boeing KC-46 News, Production and Delivery Thread - 2022
Replies: 38
Views: 8397

Re: Boeing KC-46 News, Production and Delivery Thread - 2022

Took my son's family to the Museum of Flight yesterday, hadn't been there in a decade, the cover was not over the display planes the last time I was there. As we were leaving a KC-46 landed, quite cool. I couldn't read the numbers on it. Do they do much with the KC-46 at BFI? Always see AWACs and t...

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by JayinKitsap
Sat Mar 26, 2022 5:47 pm
Forum: Military Aviation & Space Flight
Topic: Boeing KC-46 News, Production and Delivery Thread - 2022
Replies: 38
Views: 8397

Re: Boeing KC-46 News, Production and Delivery Thread - 2022

Took my son's family to the Museum of Flight yesterday, hadn't been there in a decade, the cover was not over the display planes the last time I was there. As we were leaving a KC-46 landed, quite cool. I couldn't read the numbers on it. Do they do much with the KC-46 at BFI? Always see AWACs and th...

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by JayinKitsap
Fri Mar 25, 2022 5:18 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Alaska Airlines Fleet Network and News Discussion - 2022
Replies: 928
Views: 152586

Re: Alaska Airlines Fleet Network and News Discussion - 2022

What is the Alaska - Horizon scope clause? Can they fly or negotiate to fly the E2-175? Otherwise, I think Horizon needs to up the E175 order or buy used ones. AS does not have a scope clause. That being said, the E2 has a limited resale value, and AS tends to look to resale when making fleet plann...

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by JayinKitsap
Fri Mar 25, 2022 5:04 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Airbus A220 Sales Campaign Thread - 2022
Replies: 314
Views: 66786

Re: Airbus A220 Sales Campaign Thread - 2022

What about the A220s price? Is it a rather cheap plane to acquire or a rather expensive one? Especially compared to A319neo/737MAX 7. (Like A350/787 are much more expensive than A330neo) The A220 isn't expected to be profitable until 2025. :cry2: https://mentourpilot.com/a220-airbus-and-quebec-agre...

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by JayinKitsap
Fri Mar 25, 2022 1:49 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Alaska Airlines Fleet Network and News Discussion - 2022
Replies: 928
Views: 152586

Re: Alaska Airlines Fleet Network and News Discussion - 2022

Anybody arguing for props as a more efficient solution to short-haul U.S. flight really needs to take a lesson from this: 50+ seat props are not competitive for passengers in the U.S. market. I point that at Embraer, specifically, because their choice to make the E2-175 not comply with AA/DL/UA sco...

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by JayinKitsap
Fri Mar 25, 2022 1:26 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Alaska Airlines Fleet Network and News Discussion - 2022
Replies: 928
Views: 152586

Re: Alaska Airlines Fleet Network and News Discussion - 2022

PAE is a unique airport operating with a unique operation. It attracts similar passengers that would fly mostly ULCC’s. I believe that’s why AS has found niche markets and found success to places such as PHX and LAS. It is like a ULCC with some micro hubs PAE, BOI, Reno, and the like. The Winter ma...

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by JayinKitsap
Thu Mar 24, 2022 5:07 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Delta in talks to purchase 100 737MAX-10's
Replies: 343
Views: 87314

Re: Delta in talks to purchase 100 737MAX-10's

I'll rephrase, the MAX is to upgauge the overall fleet and make use of much more valuable gate space at congested airports. The airports with a large DL presence are unlikely to see any frequency drop. What will happen is certain routes will reduce frequency. In particular if that route's business ...

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by JayinKitsap
Tue Mar 22, 2022 3:52 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: China Eastern 737-800 crashes in Guangxi, southern China
Replies: 1166
Views: 429848

Re: China Eastern 737-800 crashes in Guangxi, southern China

Many years ago in Japan a Captain on a 737 went to the toilet just before top of descent, when he asked for entry back into the cockpit the FO reached around without looking and moved the control that they thought opened the door. They had their hand on the trim, and the aircraft went into a dive w...

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by JayinKitsap
Mon Mar 21, 2022 7:01 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Delta in talks to purchase 100 737MAX-10's
Replies: 343
Views: 87314

Re: Delta in talks to purchase 100 737MAX-10's

The key is CFM giving DL the MRO rights on the LEAP. Would DL at this point order A320's with LEAP instead of PW's? Perish the thought! It's business, so I guess it depends on the deal. I think if CFM insists on something like that in return for granting the MRO authority, there might be some kind ...

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by JayinKitsap
Mon Mar 21, 2022 6:08 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Delta in talks to purchase 100 737MAX-10's
Replies: 343
Views: 87314

Re: Delta in talks to purchase 100 737MAX-10's

I am curious at which point DL drops another A220 order. The challenge there is around production rates and whether or not an A225 happens. I doubt we will see more A221s, but I am sure there will be more than just 45 A223s in DL's future fleet. I would add Airbus A220 pricing to your list of consi...

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by JayinKitsap
Mon Mar 21, 2022 4:36 am
Forum: Military Aviation & Space Flight
Topic: B-52 re-engine question…
Replies: 11
Views: 2790

Re: B-52 re-engine question…

Reengining using 8 engines of the current size required the least alterations. Doing just 4 requires a larger tail than is currently there in the engine out condition, but the larger tail needs more body structure than is there so a full rebuild of the structure. Some of the B-52 cargos require uniq...

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by JayinKitsap
Mon Mar 21, 2022 4:14 am
Forum: Military Aviation & Space Flight
Topic: Russian Invasion of Ukraine - Military Aviation News and Discussion Thread
Replies: 945
Views: 125733

Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine - Military Aviation News and Discussion Thread

The problem with intercepting a hypersonic is the interceptor needs something like 120% of the missile speed to allow for closure. Even if the missile is coming toward the interceptor launch site a 3,000 mph missile will cover 50 miles in a minute. Basically the interceptor needs to get in front of...

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by JayinKitsap
Sun Mar 20, 2022 7:31 pm
Forum: Military Aviation & Space Flight
Topic: Russian Invasion of Ukraine - Military Aviation News and Discussion Thread
Replies: 945
Views: 125733

Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine - Military Aviation News and Discussion Thread

Russia claims to have used hypersonic missile one more time. I’m curious why No western intelligence is either confirming or denying it yet. https://edition.cnn.com/europe/live-news/ukraine-russia-putin-news-03-19-22/h_e258f4d62704c278417a897db16cac80 US officials confirmed to CNN that Russia launc...

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by JayinKitsap
Sat Mar 19, 2022 1:21 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Delta in talks to purchase 100 737MAX-10's
Replies: 343
Views: 87314

Re: Delta in talks to purchase 100 737MAX-10's

This makes good sense, the rep of the 737 is it is more efficient than the A320, but has less capability. How is a 737 less capable than the A320? The most direct comparison would be a 737-800 and I’ve seen data for one of DL’s competitors that the -800 burns less fuel (737NG vs. A320CEO) while car...

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by JayinKitsap
Fri Mar 18, 2022 6:31 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Delta in talks to purchase 100 737MAX-10's
Replies: 343
Views: 87314

Re: Delta in talks to purchase 100 737MAX-10's

This makes good sense, the rep of the 737 is it is more efficient than the A320, but has less capability. The -10 will be a great people mover for the <2,000 nm routes. Delta will still need A321's to do its NB routes that are 2,500 nm and above with a similar pax load. There are currently two major...

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by JayinKitsap
Tue Mar 15, 2022 7:50 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Russian Invasion of Ukraine - Civil Aviation Related *Discussion* Thread
Replies: 782
Views: 244045

Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine - Civil Aviation Related *Discussion* Thread

Look at Iran's airline industry, not much there and many of the frames they do have are quite old. Buying parts on the black market that had lost their paper trail for certification in the West, that is really great stuff. It's like buying engines that have no green time left, a Russian roulette sit...

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by JayinKitsap
Tue Mar 15, 2022 10:30 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Russian Airbus and Boeing aircraft and sanctions
Replies: 105
Views: 27329

Re: Putin Signs Law to Seize Foreign Aircraft, Redeploy for Domestic Use

Two questions: 1) How many foreign-owned/leased/registered aircraft are under direct Russian control at this moment? 2) Even at 100% operating capacity, how many aircraft can Tupolev and/or Ilyushin create without foreign parts? I am under the impression that a lot of Tupolev and IIyushin parts com...

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by JayinKitsap
Mon Mar 14, 2022 10:58 pm
Forum: Military Aviation & Space Flight
Topic: Lockheed reveals new LMXT refueling tanker
Replies: 334
Views: 44715

Re: Lockheed reveals new LMXT refueling tanker

If you're hit by an EMP, you'd feel nothing and have no effects. Like I said, all that is black magic to me. All I know is they tell us to not walk in front of the airplane when the nose radar is on. bt You were taught good black magic. Amana introduced the microwave oven "The Radar Range"...

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