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by Sancho99504
Sat Aug 13, 2022 11:39 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: More fisticuffs for NK at DFW
Replies: 47
Views: 7108

Re: More fisticuffs for NK at DFW

That’s a pretty big presumption that it was the passenger and not the employee that escalated this. I was through DFW on Aug 10/11. The 10th saw severe wx that caused an afternoon 3 hour ground stop. My AA flight diverted to LIT. I got to DFW almost 5 hours late and went to the AA FL for dinner bef...

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by Sancho99504
Sat Aug 13, 2022 11:25 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: DL159 DTW-ICN diversion ANC
Replies: 7
Views: 3312

Re: DL159 DTW-ICN diversion ANC

Not too many details, but it looks like severe turbulence caused some injuries requiring the diversion. https://flightaware.com/live/flight/id/DAL159-1660105346-fa-0000 Where did you get the info that it was severe turbulence? It was a medical diversion due to ill crew member. It was a medical dive...

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by Sancho99504
Sat Aug 13, 2022 3:43 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: DL159 DTW-ICN diversion ANC
Replies: 7
Views: 3312

Re: DL159 DTW-ICN diversion ANC

Not too many details, but it looks like severe turbulence caused some injuries requiring the diversion. https://flightaware.com/live/flight/id/DAL159-1660105346-fa-0000 Where did you get the info that it was severe turbulence? It was a medical diversion due to ill crew member. That's what I heard a...

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by Sancho99504
Sat Aug 13, 2022 3:42 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: More fisticuffs for NK at DFW
Replies: 47
Views: 7108

Re: More fisticuffs for NK at DFW

Maybe one day airlines will get rid of the $59 fares and what comes with it. Then airlines wouldn't have to operate as credit card mills. WN has fare sales all the time with fares as low as $39 yet don't have the problems that NK gets. G4 and F9 don't seem to have this problem either. You don't nee...

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by Sancho99504
Sat Aug 13, 2022 11:56 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: DL159 DTW-ICN diversion ANC
Replies: 7
Views: 3312

DL159 DTW-ICN diversion ANC

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/id/ ... 46-fa-0000
-->

Not too many details, but it looks like severe turbulence caused some injuries requiring the diversion.


https://flightaware.com/live/flight/id/ ... 46-fa-0000

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by Sancho99504
Sat Aug 13, 2022 11:46 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: More fisticuffs for NK at DFW
Replies: 47
Views: 7108

Re: More fisticuffs for NK at DFW

miami123 wrote:
Maybe one day airlines will get rid of the $59 fares and what comes with it. Then airlines wouldn't have to operate as credit card mills.

WN has fare sales all the time with fares as low as $39 yet don't have the problems that NK gets. G4 and F9 don't seem to have this problem either.

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by Sancho99504
Fri Aug 12, 2022 10:10 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: More fisticuffs for NK at DFW
Replies: 47
Views: 7108

More fisticuffs for NK at DFW

Haven't seen this posted yet. I'm kind of in his corner at the moment. Getting real tired of the lack of respect that people feel they can get away with. I don't know if he called for DFWPD. Spirit Airlines employee suspended after fighting woman in viral video https://www.foxnews.com/us/spirit-airl...

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by Sancho99504
Thu Aug 11, 2022 12:06 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: DL 941 757-300 gear problem
Replies: 35
Views: 8538

Re: DL 941 757-300 gear problem

Often you wouldn’t know until the tower reported the debris on the runway. I had one blow on take-off in Denmark. Shanwick called me to pass the reported debris on the runway must have been ours. Engineer looked thru the viewing port on extension to confirm it. IINM, aircraft with EICAS have a tire...

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by Sancho99504
Wed Aug 10, 2022 1:40 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Spirit NK earnings are out 2Q22 - $52 million loss
Replies: 53
Views: 7996

Re: Spirit NK earnings are out 2Q22 - $52 million loss

While I haven't followed the main merger thread, I could see this too, two airlines with opposite market segments, and both with known operational issues, what could go wrong when you try to merge them into one? Mm let me tell you a little story about an airline called American Airlines… As long as...

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by Sancho99504
Tue Aug 09, 2022 5:28 pm
Forum: Travel, Polls & Preferences
Topic: Replacing the 717 for Hawaiian
Replies: 80
Views: 6135

Re: Replacing the 717 for Hawaiian

QX Q400s are only leaving because the cost of an aging fleet with no replacement in sight, one less aircraft on the AOC, one less pilot pool, mx spares down to one fleet type.... I forgot where I was going with this...... oh, the Q400 has been a boon to the AS network over the last 20 years. If HA w...

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by Sancho99504
Mon Aug 08, 2022 11:06 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: DL 941 757-300 gear problem
Replies: 35
Views: 8538

Re: DL 941 757-300 gear problem

Often you wouldn’t know until the tower reported the debris on the runway. I had one blow on take-off in Denmark. Shanwick called me to pass the reported debris on the runway must have been ours. Engineer looked thru the viewing port on extension to confirm it. IINM, aircraft with EICAS have a tire...

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by Sancho99504
Mon Aug 08, 2022 11:01 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: DL 941 757-300 gear problem
Replies: 35
Views: 8538

Re: DL 941 757-300 gear problem

Couldn't have been as big an issue as it appeared in the video. She's over BHM right now. Thanks More-likely it was indeed a "big issue" -- problems with gear extension and blown tire(s), but DL has the MRO resources, parts and expertise in-house to diagnose and repair the broken stuff, i...

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by Sancho99504
Mon Aug 08, 2022 6:28 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: DL 941 757-300 gear problem
Replies: 35
Views: 8538

Re: DL 941 757-300 gear problem

Often you wouldn’t know until the tower reported the debris on the runway. I had one blow on take-off in Denmark. Shanwick called me to pass the reported debris on the runway must have been ours. Engineer looked thru the viewing port on extension to confirm it. IINM, aircraft with EICAS have a tire...

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by Sancho99504
Sun Aug 07, 2022 8:55 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Business Case/Niche for 737-MAX10 ?
Replies: 78
Views: 10498

Re: Business Case/Niche for 737-MAX10 ?

FI was flying KEF-SEA daily in the winter using -9 which is 3140 nm , 3194 nm KEF-MCO ,3242 nm KEF-PDX on a -8 all of them against strong headwinds ,most of times the flight time exceeds 8 hours , with a record of 9h 09m on GOL 7734 there is at least a dozen of flights with similar length and durat...

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by Sancho99504
Sun Aug 07, 2022 8:52 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Business Case/Niche for 737-MAX10 ?
Replies: 78
Views: 10498

Re: Business Case/Niche for 737-MAX10 ?

Yes. 737-9 48.000-49.500kgs DOW depending on LOPA (real life numbers) and 737-10 projections IIRC 49.500kgs-50.500. Lie-flats are heavy and would push this towards the upper figures. Number of lav´s, galley layouts, seat weights all contribute here. Using wikipedia numbers is pretty ridiculous. Quo...

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by Sancho99504
Sun Aug 07, 2022 7:30 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: DL 941 757-300 gear problem
Replies: 35
Views: 8538

Re: DL 941 757-300 gear problem

Lots of good info there. Funny enough, a B763 operated DL859 this morning while it now shows 5816 operating DL834 ATL-LAS this afternoon. Looks like it's at A16 now. Yes, N596NW did not operate DL859 this morning (it was B763 N196DN) but instead was towed to the Delta hanger after 7AM EDT this morn...

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by Sancho99504
Sun Aug 07, 2022 5:51 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: DL 941 757-300 gear problem
Replies: 35
Views: 8538

Re: DL 941 757-300 gear problem

FR24 has it as N596NW, ship 5816 Here are the ADS-B Exchange logs for DL 941 (LAS-ATL 08/06/2022) / N596NW B757-351 (ex NW) 5550693,1213449 Initial ATL go-around and landing on 9L: https://globe.adsbexchange.com/?icao=a7b4f2&lat=33.594&lon=-84.595&zoom=12.0&showTrace=2022-08-06&...

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by Sancho99504
Sun Aug 07, 2022 7:58 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: DL 941 757-300 gear problem
Replies: 35
Views: 8538

Re: DL 941 757-300 gear problem

FR24 has it as N596NW, ship 5816. Also. FR24 has 5816 operating as DL859 ATL-MCO today(08/07/22)

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by Sancho99504
Fri Aug 05, 2022 11:24 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Only 3 to Go: Atlas Air takes one of the last 747's to be build
Replies: 44
Views: 10071

Re: Only 3 to Go: Atlas Air takes one of the last 747's to be build

I thought the 747s they picked for Air Force One were ex-Transaero and couldn't be retrofitted with in-air refueling capabilities. Thanks. That seems absurd and choosing theatrical budget machinations over mission-critical capabilities, but that's what you get with that decision-making team. except...

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by Sancho99504
Thu Aug 04, 2022 3:16 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Korean Air Boeing 747 damaged at Ted Stevens Anchorage Airport
Replies: 10
Views: 4431

Re: Korean Air Boeing 747 damaged at Ted Stevens Anchorage Airport

747 SOP : During push an/or pull always a licenced technician/ engineer / pilot must be at the flightdeck to operate the hydraulics and the brakes, when needed. I'm not a tech/engineer/pilot and I was certified to brake ride at ORD on 747F/MD-11F/A320. It's not very difficult to do. Start APU, make...

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by Sancho99504
Thu Aug 04, 2022 3:10 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Updated: Atlas Air Worldwide to be acquired in $5.2bn takeover
Replies: 24
Views: 8589

Re: Possible Atlas Air Sale

https://www.aircargonews.net/airlines/f ... -takeover/
-->

It's official;

$5.2b all cash deal
Atlas Worldwide will be delisted from NYSE
Apollo taking Atlas private



https://www.aircargonews.net/airlines/f ... -takeover/

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by Sancho99504
Sun Jul 17, 2022 3:23 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Student Pilot Arrested for DUI
Replies: 21
Views: 5286

Re: Student Pilot Arrested for DUI

No doubt inspired by fellow drunk pilot, Tom Fitzpatrick who accomplished a far more difficult landing, not once but twice. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Fitzpatrick_(pilot) Apparently the content is missing. Is that the guy that stole a plane twice and landed in Manhattan? Yes, I checked th...

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by Sancho99504
Sat Jul 16, 2022 11:36 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Student Pilot Arrested for DUI
Replies: 21
Views: 5286

Re: Student Pilot Arrested for DUI

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Fitzpatrick_(pilot)

Apparently the content is missing.

Is that the guy that stole a plane twice and landed in Manhattan?
-->

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
No doubt inspired by fellow drunk pilot, Tom Fitzpatrick who accomplished a far more difficult landing, not once but twice.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Fitzpatrick_(pilot)

Apparently the content is missing.

Is that the guy that stole a plane twice and landed in Manhattan?

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by Sancho99504
Sun Jun 26, 2022 8:20 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Updated: JetBlue Agrees to Buy Spirit Airlines for $3.8 Billion After Frontier Deal Dies
Replies: 2278
Views: 302362

Re: JetBlue Makes Hostile Takeover Offer for Spirit

I said in recent years.....Mint was introduced almost 10 years ago and B6 has only been around for just over 20 years. A Northeast based carrier adding a couple JFK/BOS-LON flights is not "defying the odds." It's a move that analysts expected for a long time. Counting RDU, SFO, PHL, e.t.c...

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by Sancho99504
Wed Jun 22, 2022 5:07 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: End of AA LuxuryLiner and LuxuryJet
Replies: 32
Views: 5335

Re: End of AA LuxuryLiner and LuxuryJet

Now the luxury is gone. Two first class flights, no hot meal. Coach flights on return, no food for purchase, not even the chips. These were coast to coast itineraries connecting in DFW. Back in the 80s those same flights had omelettes for breakfast and steaks for dinner in F with sundaes and coach ...

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by Sancho99504
Fri Apr 22, 2022 8:33 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Mike Tyson Punches Passenger on JetBlue Flight
Replies: 97
Views: 24776

Re: Mike Tyson Punches Passenger on JetBlue Flight

"Tell the crew", "violence isn't the answer", " a professional should carry themselves better"...... utter horse apples. People were a lot more respectful to one another when getting popped in the mouth was a normal reaction instead of a felony and crying to teacher. Th...

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by Sancho99504
Wed Apr 06, 2022 2:46 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: JetBlue bids 3.6B for Spirit
Replies: 992
Views: 155363

Re: JetBlue bids 3.6B for Spirit

This site is so confusing sometimes; Blast the legacies for cutting service and shrinking legroom to add more seats to lower costs to try to compete with the ULCC's and LCC's of the world. Champion and root for the ULCC's for finding new and creative ways to nickel and dime consumers. Cheer on a ULC...

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by Sancho99504
Tue Apr 05, 2022 2:05 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: American Airlines Network Thread - 2022
Replies: 1821
Views: 353946

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2022

My source said that Brazil had more than Argentina https://www.worldatlas.com/articles/which-countries-of-latin-america-receive-the-greatest-number-of-international-tourists.html Also, you should have said AA's regional HQ is in Buenos Aires, not the regional corporate HQs You can't compare 2015 nu...

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by Sancho99504
Mon Mar 21, 2022 3:10 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: China Eastern 737-800 crashes in Guangxi, southern China
Replies: 1178
Views: 457468

Re: China Eastern 737-800 crashes in Guangxi, southern China

I wouldn't be surprised, in the past 10 years almost all non-intentional unsurvivable airplane crashes killing 50 or more people have been Boeing 737's. This happened 8 times and 7 times it was a 737, that's a very suspicious statistic. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_accidents_and_incidents_...

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by Sancho99504
Mon Mar 21, 2022 2:40 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: China Eastern 737-800 crashes in Guangxi, southern China
Replies: 1178
Views: 457468

Re: China Eastern 737-800 crashes in Guangxi, southern China

I've only seen one reference to it, but AS261 comes to mind. Rapid descent, sharp climb, rapid descent to crash. Going to be a while, but hopefully China is transparent with the investigation findings. From everything that I've learned here, the problems with the vertical stabilizer on the classics ...

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by Sancho99504
Sat Mar 12, 2022 7:28 am
Forum: Trip Reports
Topic: Experiencing a Legend: B6 DTW-BOS-DTW
Replies: 3
Views: 6075

Re: Experiencing a Legend: B6 DTW-BOS-DTW

Nice report. Soon enough you'll be on the A223 with better, nicer IFE.

BTW that's a BA 787-9 :)

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by Sancho99504
Sat Mar 12, 2022 6:23 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: 40 Years of the Mighty 757
Replies: 129
Views: 20345

Re: 40 Years of the Mighty 757

Cabin width is the same 707/727/737/757. Maybe you're recognizing different PSU/overhead bin designs? The upper fuselage lobe and cabin width are the same but the floor beams on the 757 were changed to lower the floor by 1-2" giving a little more headroom and a slightly more spacious feeling. ...

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by Sancho99504
Thu Mar 03, 2022 11:44 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Updated: Air Canada to add 26 A321neo
Replies: 185
Views: 21277

Re: Air Canada ordering A321-LR?

There are basically only 2 manufacturers for anything beyond regional aircraft (Airbus and Boeing); and there are a plethora of airlines around the world who fly planes from both manufacturers. Air Canada is not unique in doing this. No, but it needs to buy & operate in economic quantities. Ten...

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by Sancho99504
Sat Feb 19, 2022 10:38 am
Forum: Travel, Polls & Preferences
Topic: Why didn’t Alaska order the 737-500?
Replies: 9
Views: 2674

Re: Why didn’t Alaska order the 737-500?

No gravel kit / lower slung engines - I bet that they were operating the 737-200 into some remote strips where the better clearance and/or gravel kit on the -200s helped. A combi -500 would not really have made sense, and getting a cargo door installed may have been a bit tight, the -300 would have...

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by Sancho99504
Sat Feb 19, 2022 10:19 am
Forum: Technical/Operations
Topic: Very basic question for pilots: How do airliners slow down when they are already at flight idle?
Replies: 39
Views: 6356

Re: Very basic question for pilots: How do airliners slow down when they are already at flight idle?

I fly into LAW a lot on the E145. When high winds and/or inclement weather is moving thru, ATC keeps you high until you're about 25-30 miles from the field. Cruise is usually 16,000 feet, so it's a pretty quick descent. I'm pretty sure that the spoiler is just there so it could be certified. It defi...

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by Sancho99504
Thu Feb 17, 2022 5:17 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: FAA administrator Steve Dickson resigns
Replies: 44
Views: 7989

Re: FAA administrator Steve Dickson resigns

It's easy to lay all the blame on Dickinson but has anyone put much thought into the people he was tasked with managing? They're the same people previous administrators had to deal with and you can't fire them like you can private sector employees unless you're Ronald Reagan. Also, if you took the t...

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by Sancho99504
Sat Jan 29, 2022 1:08 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Boeing Hints at Next New Jet as It Weighs Tough Engine Decisions
Replies: 115
Views: 19753

Re: Boeing Hints at Next New Jet as It Weighs Tough Engine Decisions

Good lord, not another round of clean sheet design fluff. I've heard this in 2015, then I thought we got another fresh wave in 2020. Are they back with Max and 787 and friends in terms of getting those in operation? Last I looked they were still working out program kinks there. This is going to be ...

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by Sancho99504
Sat Jan 22, 2022 9:04 pm
Forum: Technical/Operations
Topic: DE-icing while idle
Replies: 10
Views: 3275

Re: DE-icing while idle

When deicing an aircraft while engines are running isn't much different than engines off. Big thing is to make sure when clearing snow and ice from the engine cover is to not spray directly into the engine.

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by Sancho99504
Thu Jan 20, 2022 6:46 am
Forum: Travel, Polls & Preferences
Topic: China Eastern MD-11 service to North America
Replies: 5
Views: 2116

Re: China Eastern MD-11 service to North America

You could find the CK MD-11Fs at LAX, ORD, DFW, JFK, ATL, SEA, ANC and a couple other places. They were quickly phased out when CK got their 744Fs.

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by Sancho99504
Thu Dec 30, 2021 3:16 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Strong headwinds in the US causing issues this week
Replies: 62
Views: 13358

Re: Strong eastbound headwinds causing problems over the US this week.

Is flightaware correct showing the DL BOS-LAX flights clocking at 8 hours on December 26th? https://flightaware.com/live/flight/DAL458/history/20211226/2339Z/KBOS/KLAX Altitude graph is all kinds of weird, too. Perhaps they were trying to stay under the jet stream? They started off at FL 260, then ...

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by Sancho99504
Fri Dec 24, 2021 4:15 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: AS, UA, DL and others struggle to crew flights due to Omicron
Replies: 193
Views: 48931

Re: AS, UA, DL, LH and others struggle to crew flights due to Omnicron

American Airlines is running a phenomenal operation compared to Delta, United, Jetblue, Alaska, Southwest. Just 1 cancellation today so far and no delays. Paying the flight attendants 300% was very successful. They’re up to 10 cancellations and 98 delays. I'm on one of the delays, which might end u...

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by Sancho99504
Thu Dec 16, 2021 4:24 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Final A320ceo Family Aircraft Delivered to Delta
Replies: 34
Views: 8605

Re: Final A320ceo Family Aircraft Delivered to Delta

JohanTally wrote:
All of these were delivered without ACTs correct? If so what is the longest stage length they operate?

Yes. I've seen ATL-PDX/SFO/LAX/SAN and SLC to Florida on the A321s. Doesn't seem like they're on anything longer than 4:30 block time.

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by Sancho99504
Thu Dec 16, 2021 4:14 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Final A320ceo Family Aircraft Delivered to Delta
Replies: 34
Views: 8605

Re: Final A320ceo Family Aircraft Delivered to Delta

All of these were delivered without ACTs correct? If so what is the longest stage length they operate? Yes correct. ACT is not available for ceo. A321-100= 2,300-2,400nm A321-200=2,750-3,000nm A321neo= 3,100-3,700nm A321neo ACF= 3,100-4,000nm (97t=4,000nm with 3 ACTs= A321LR) A321XLR= 4,450-4,700nm...

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by Sancho99504
Wed Dec 08, 2021 4:29 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Doug Parker set to retire - Isom will be AA's new CEO
Replies: 122
Views: 20946

Re: Doug Parker set to retire - Isom will be AA's new CEO

I have mixed emotions on this. On the one hand, Doug did an incredible job at HP and to an extent, US as well. When he started at HP, prior to his appointment as CEO, he got the maintenance side of the operation in order and kept them from being grounded by the FAA. Before he got his hands on the co...

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by Sancho99504
Sat Nov 27, 2021 4:36 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: UA’s Financial Position after 9/11
Replies: 49
Views: 7456

Re: UA’s Financial Position after 9/11

Jeff Smisek was the wrong guy to run the merged company. Glenn Tilton succeeded in making some improvements at legacy UA but was desperate to marry it off to anyone willing to merge. Oscar Munoz managed to settle down the labor issues that plagued both companies post-merger, but it is Scott Kirby w...

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by Sancho99504
Tue Nov 02, 2021 3:49 am
Forum: Technical/Operations
Topic: What's this contraption?
Replies: 14
Views: 3539

Re: What's this contraption?

There used to be a few gates at PHX terminal 4 on the HP side that were 737 only gates where the jet bridge move only two directions rather than standard ones. There was a bar that hung from a chain on each side of the bar. When the center window frame hit the bar, you stopped and the jet bridge was...

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by Sancho99504
Sat Oct 16, 2021 8:37 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Tulsa Aviation Thread
Replies: 11
Views: 1562

Re: Tulsa Aviation Thread - 2021

What happens in TUL is largely dependant on the post-Covid rebound. TUL-ORD on AA is business travel dependant and is Eagle only currently, TUL-CLT can handle much of the traffic heading to the northeast (though TUL-PHL could be interesting,) TUL-PHX was a great addition for western connections. I ...

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by Sancho99504
Tue Oct 05, 2021 4:58 am
Forum: Technical/Operations
Topic: American Airlines Phoenix Pilot Base
Replies: 14
Views: 2150

Re: American Airlines Phoenix Pilot Base

.... ...... Once upon, PHX was a 747 base...... American Airlines? Or America West? I know America West during the time of their questionable foray into the wide body market with three 747s in the early 90's, based their pilots in PHX. It's only American Airlines in name only. Headquarters may be i...

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by Sancho99504
Tue Oct 05, 2021 4:57 am
Forum: Technical/Operations
Topic: American Airlines Phoenix Pilot Base
Replies: 14
Views: 2150

Re: American Airlines Phoenix Pilot Base

Is there an American Airlines pilot base in Phoenix? If there is, what equipment (Boeing or Airbus) can pilots bid for? Thank You Very much. They have 737 and A320 groups at PHX. Once upon, PHX was a 747 base...... PHX has been exclusively an Airbus base since the 757's were parked approximately 18...

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by Sancho99504
Mon Oct 04, 2021 4:11 am
Forum: Technical/Operations
Topic: American Airlines Phoenix Pilot Base
Replies: 14
Views: 2150

Re: American Airlines Phoenix Pilot Base

kparke777 wrote:
Is there an American Airlines pilot base in Phoenix? If there is, what equipment (Boeing or Airbus) can pilots bid for? Thank You Very much.

They have 737 and A320 groups at PHX. Once upon, PHX was a 747 base......

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