Search found 171 matches

by mig17
Fri May 10, 2019 2:45 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Updated: Qantas saying it is almost ready to select Project Sunrise aircraft
Replies: 1327
Views: 226427

Re: Updated: Qantas saying it is almost ready to select Project Sunrise aircraft

From someone who knows better than me- A ulh 320t mtow a35k with a lightweight interior seating ~300pax should have a dow of ~147t. A payload of 30t will result in 139t of trip fuel with 4t as reserves. At 6.7t/hour 21 hours should be possible. This without any aerodynamic improvements that are in ...

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by mig17
Wed May 08, 2019 10:46 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Updated: Qantas saying it is almost ready to select Project Sunrise aircraft
Replies: 1327
Views: 226427

Re: Updated: Qantas saying it is almost ready to select Project Sunrise aircraft

My numbers point to a 330T MTOW required for the A350-1000 to match 777-8. flipdewaf calculated a 333T MTOW required. At only a 320T MTOW for the A350-1000 I estimate it could only carry around 75% of the payload as the 777-8. 225 passenger vs 300 passengers. That is a big profit margin difference....

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by mig17
Tue May 07, 2019 7:09 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Updated: Qantas saying it is almost ready to select Project Sunrise aircraft
Replies: 1327
Views: 226427

Re: Qantas Project Sunrise Close to a Go

Why so thin skinned? The 778 is a much more capable aircraft than the A350. It can fly more payload farther. This is not difficult to understand. Airbus fans make the same point regarding the A350 versus the 787 and they are correct. The 778 can do Project Sunrise without a lot of modification. The...

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by mig17
Sat May 04, 2019 2:45 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: How come the DL A350 can't fly LAX-SYD it is rumored?
Replies: 314
Views: 54965

Re: How come the DL A350 can't fly LAX-SYD it is rumored?

So the 789 can do 17 hour mission with 5t under MTOW; it’s a truly ULH king. So why is Qantas still looking for a project sunrise aircraft? I doubt Qantas is still looking. There is only one option, B778, unless Airbus can raise MTOW of A350-1000 by 20t. Bof! Without an MTOW bump, the 778 isn't so ...

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by mig17
Sat May 04, 2019 12:40 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: How come the DL A350 can't fly LAX-SYD it is rumored?
Replies: 314
Views: 54965

Re: How come the DL A350 can't fly LAX-SYD it is rumored?

The QF flight has been longer by up to an hour recently. QF9 https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/QFA9 PR127 https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/PAL127 However, PR127 has 25% more seats in a 9.3% greater floor area. Sample QF9 weights are available on this site and I'd be very interested in se...

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by mig17
Tue Apr 30, 2019 1:17 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Cathay Pacific's Airbus A350-1000s and upcoming Boeing 777-9Xs
Replies: 62
Views: 15879

Re: Cathay Pacific's Airbus A350-1000s and upcoming Boeing 777-9Xs

I have tryed to make a simplstic comparaison between A35K, 778, 779 and 77W. Simplistic because I used data avaible to the general public and press on the 77X and applied a linear fuel consumption per weight principle. That gives : A35K 778 779 77W MTOW 316 352 352 352 OEW 155 170 181 167 max struct...

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by mig17
Sat Apr 27, 2019 1:35 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Air France - KLM: can only continue if the French abandon power thinking
Replies: 38
Views: 10063

Re: Air Fance - KLM

Funny, since recently, the Dutch seems very concerned about power balance ... The battle between Ben Smith and Pieter Elbers for the control of the group and the battle for shares between governement for extra AF/KL purposes to protects jobs in the Schiphol area. By the way, speaking of conflict of...

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by mig17
Sat Apr 27, 2019 11:53 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Air France - KLM: can only continue if the French abandon power thinking
Replies: 38
Views: 10063

Re: Air Fance - KLM

Funny, since recently, the Dutch seems very concerned about power balance ... The battle between Ben Smith and Pieter Elbers for the control of the group and the battle for shares between governement for extra AF/KL purposes to protects jobs in the Schiphol area. By the way, speaking of conflict of ...

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by mig17
Tue Apr 23, 2019 8:59 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Cathay Pacific's Airbus A350-1000s and upcoming Boeing 777-9Xs
Replies: 62
Views: 15879

Re: Cathay Pacific's Airbus A350-1000s and upcoming Boeing 777-9Xs

I think the 779s are mainly there for the extra payload (CX does a lot of freight). They might like the few extra passengers, but I think they probably would have kept to the a35k if their main concern was passengers. Without an MTOW increase over the 77W or a lower empty weight over the current pr...

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by mig17
Fri Apr 05, 2019 6:37 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Ethiopian Airlines 737MAX crashes enroute to Nairobi Q1 2019
Replies: 5474
Views: 713775

Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737MAX crashes enroute to Nairobi

You would tear off the flaps IF you could even extend them at unsafe aerodynamic pressure (I would assume system does not allow that). Even worse, you would partially tear of only one of them, sending plane into unrecoverable spin and end up as pile of smoking debris on the ground, with investigato...

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by mig17
Fri Mar 29, 2019 1:03 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Air France - KLM no 737 MAX / A320 NEO orders
Replies: 142
Views: 32717

Re: Air France - KLM no 737 MAX / A320 NEO orders

I would expect things to happen in this years Paris Air Show. If the group place a narrowbody order at Le Bourget, it will be for some Airbus ones. Or ... E-jet ^^ KLM's 737NG fleet is not that old; AF's A32Xs, while slightly older, aren't ancient either, so I am guessing that they are happy to sit...

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by mig17
Fri Mar 29, 2019 12:06 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Your advice to Boeing for the upcoming Paris Air Show ?
Replies: 94
Views: 10227

Re: Your advice to Boeing for the upcoming Paris Air Show ?

It will just be a stop on the Boeing apology tour, nothing more nothing less. PR by then will have massaged the message Boeing uses and how to properly answer the “inconvenient questions.” Let’s not forget the air show is a trade show . People there are not going to beat up Boeing. Most of them are...

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by mig17
Fri Mar 29, 2019 11:59 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Your advice to Boeing for the upcoming Paris Air Show ?
Replies: 94
Views: 10227

Re: Your advice to Boeing for the upcoming Paris Air Show ?

It will just be a stop on the Boeing apology tour, nothing more nothing less. PR by then will have massaged the message Boeing uses and how to properly answer the “inconvenient questions.” Let’s not forget the air show is a trade show . People there are not going to beat up Boeing. Most of them are...

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by mig17
Fri Mar 29, 2019 9:58 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Your advice to Boeing for the upcoming Paris Air Show ?
Replies: 94
Views: 10227

Re: Your advice to Boeing for the upcoming Paris Air Show ?

For now, the MAX is radioactive. No airlines will want to see their brand associated to it until the general population forgets. Le Bourget maybe to soon. So my advice to Boeing is to do what Mercedes did with the Classe A in the late 90 : rework the plane until it is realy safe and passes the autor...

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by mig17
Tue Mar 19, 2019 7:43 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: B737MAX Grounded Worldwide Q1 2019
Replies: 6472
Views: 710509

Re: B737MAX Grounded Worldwide

The pilots before them did it didn't they? Bradin 's post, just after yours is terrifying. You have juste taken off and your plane doesn't seem to want to climb. You pull the yoke to go up while the opposit happens and in no time the nose goes really down. Then, more you pull up more you dive. It's...

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by mig17
Mon Mar 18, 2019 9:30 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: B737MAX Grounded Worldwide Q1 2019
Replies: 6472
Views: 710509

Re: B737MAX Grounded Worldwide

The pilots before them did it didn't they? Bradin 's post, just after yours is terrifying. You have juste taken off and your plane doesn't seem to want to climb. You pull the yoke to go up while the opposit happens and in no time the nose goes really down. Then, more you pull up more you dive. That...

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by mig17
Mon Mar 18, 2019 7:24 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: B737MAX Grounded Worldwide Q1 2019
Replies: 6472
Views: 710509

Re: B737MAX Grounded Worldwide

Maybe I am too pessimistic, but I just feel that the 737 MAX is a bridge too far, and that it will, as currently designed, not be allowed back into the world's airspace I love hearing these comments on various Facebook posts, here, Reddit, etc from people who aren't aerospace engineers, much less p...

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by mig17
Wed Mar 13, 2019 10:58 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: B737MAX Grounded Worldwide Q1 2019
Replies: 6472
Views: 710509

Re: Should airline regulators consider grounding B737 MAX series

For those who believe the groundings were justified; do you likewise believe that turning planes around mid-flight was justified, given that the main known commonality between the two crashes is that they occurred shortly after takeoff (and the vague "control problems")? In terms of PAX s...

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by mig17
Sun Mar 10, 2019 11:40 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: B737MAX Grounded Worldwide Q1 2019
Replies: 6472
Views: 710509

Re: Should airline regulators consider grounding B737 MAX series

Not knowing yet what caused this crash is not a valid argument against grounding the MAX. It is in fact the opposit. If we knew it was a bombing, a crew suicide, a maintenance problem, a pilot error, ... we could say grounding isn't necessary. But if we have doubt about the plane itself, and with th...

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by mig17
Sun Mar 10, 2019 10:16 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Ethiopian Airlines 737MAX crashes enroute to Nairobi Q1 2019
Replies: 5474
Views: 713775

Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737MAX crashes enroute to Nairobi

Should more people potentially die before someone makes the decision? No. More facts should be garnered. They're not going to ground all aircraft, the night of a crash, on a hunch. No regulatory body is going to make a risk-utility call in that manner. Never have, probably never will... regardless ...

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by mig17
Sat Mar 09, 2019 5:59 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: WSJ: Airbus Not Interested In Stretching A350-1000
Replies: 81
Views: 14239

Re: WSJ: Airbus Not Interested In Stretching A350-1000

Is it a good idea to stretch the A350-1000? Simple stretch or stretch and capability increase? In any case, wait and see the 777-X true in flight performances before. What does a stretched A350-1000 have to do with 777-9's performance? A stretch would be justified by a strong demand for a plane big...

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by mig17
Sat Mar 09, 2019 3:43 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: WSJ: Airbus Not Interested In Stretching A350-1000
Replies: 81
Views: 14239

Re: WSJ: Airbus Not Interested In Stretching A350-1000

VV wrote:
Is it a good idea to stretch the A350-1000?

Simple stretch or stretch and capability increase?
In any case, wait and see the 777-X true in flight performances before.

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by mig17
Fri Mar 08, 2019 10:38 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Airbus And Boeing 2019 Orders
Replies: 164
Views: 46245

Re: Airbus And Boeing 2019 Orders

frigatebird wrote:
But I can't see any other cancellations for the 777X you desperately seem to hope for.

Who is the unidentified customer for 10*777-9? And like EY, QR isn't doing so weel with a lot of widebody on order.

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by mig17
Sun Feb 24, 2019 4:56 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: a MTOW increase on 787-10 to compete with A359?
Replies: 604
Views: 85628

Re: a MTOW increase on 787-10 to compete with A359?

I've kind of lost the point of this thread. Can someone please remind me? Summarize for me? Like I said before : "On any distance, the A359 can fly more paylaod than the 78X and the 78X hits max fuel before the A359. But as long as the 78X isn't trading payload for fuel, it can accomodate more...

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by mig17
Sat Feb 23, 2019 8:49 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: a MTOW increase on 787-10 to compete with A359?
Replies: 604
Views: 85628

Re: a MTOW increase on 787-10 to compete with A359?

10t is 100 pax approx! Exactly. 10t is the delta between 100%LF and 70%LF since both planes seats more than 300 pax. If the number is two directions combined, the difference would be 20t. On that I concur. Both the note and the weight difference in LF make sence for the 78X at UA. It is for the A35...

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by mig17
Sat Feb 23, 2019 8:37 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: a MTOW increase on 787-10 to compete with A359?
Replies: 604
Views: 85628

Re: a MTOW increase on 787-10 to compete with A359?

I don't know why, but DL numbers here on a.net for the 268T A359 always seems odd. Indeed, the bits and pieces of data we get from Delta on their A350s diverge very hard from OEM numbers for some reason.... Delta has 275t planes, which means their performance diverges even further than OEM numbers....

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by mig17
Sat Feb 23, 2019 8:34 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: a MTOW increase on 787-10 to compete with A359?
Replies: 604
Views: 85628

Re: a MTOW increase on 787-10 to compete with A359?

Not true either, the 789 has less cabin floor space than both A359 and 78X so, it can accomodate less pax than both. Now it has lower OEW and DOW than both and a shorter fuselage, meaning better fuel flow and more "onboard weight than the 78X (and closer to the 268T A359 in termes of onboard w...

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by mig17
Sat Feb 23, 2019 8:17 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: a MTOW increase on 787-10 to compete with A359?
Replies: 604
Views: 85628

Re: a MTOW increase on 787-10 to compete with A359?

Can you explain the A359's presence on so many of the world's longest routes? And the 78X's lack of presence? And can you answer my questions more specifically? For longest routes there is a better choice than both: 787-9. Plus there are more considerations when choosing an aircraft other than payl...

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by mig17
Sat Feb 23, 2019 8:04 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: a MTOW increase on 787-10 to compete with A359?
Replies: 604
Views: 85628

Re: a MTOW increase on 787-10 to compete with A359?

LAX-HND is 4768nm. DTW-HND is 5585nm. Yes, but 787-10 has 318 pax + bags + 22.6t cargo whereas 359 has 308 pax + bags + 6.7t cargo. Equalizing the cargo, it's clear that 787-10 flies farther. The A359 and the 78X have approximately the same fuel flow per hour but the A359 has more fuel capacity. So...

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by mig17
Fri Feb 22, 2019 11:46 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: a MTOW increase on 787-10 to compete with A359?
Replies: 604
Views: 85628

Re: a MTOW increase on 787-10 to compete with A359?

Does a UA pax on US to Asia weigh the same as a DL pax? Especially on the luggage policy.

edit, yes seems so, the difference between 100% and 70% LF is 10T for each ...

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by mig17
Sat Feb 16, 2019 11:50 am
Forum: Travel, Polls & Preferences
Topic: BA’s 777-200ER replacement?
Replies: 129
Views: 18705

Re: BA’s 777-200ER replacement?

I see the B777X in the future BA fleet............ And I do not. Like some other here, I see more 787 (-9 &-10) and A350 (-900 & -1000). Now it will depend if BA wants one big order or to proced by increment. By increment, BA longhaul fleet would look like : - 20 A380 (if 2nd hand market wo...

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by mig17
Thu Feb 14, 2019 7:26 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Reuters: Etihad restructures aircraft orders
Replies: 83
Views: 13763

Re: Reuters: Etihad restructures aircraft orders

If they are really only taking 6x B779, cancelling 19, that number will more or less replace their oldest batch of 777Ws. What I mean is when you have on order 40 A359, 22 A35K,17 777-9 and 8 777-8 and have to cancel 61 of them, why do you keep 20 A35K and 6 777-X while you could have cancelled all...

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by mig17
Thu Feb 14, 2019 7:04 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Reuters: Etihad restructures aircraft orders
Replies: 83
Views: 13763

Re: Etihad restructures aircraft orders

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-02-14/abu-dhabi-s-etihad-slashes-21-billion-of-airbus-boeing-orders The spinning on this post would make any PR firm proud. Makes for entertaining reading.. The M3 influence on Airbus and Boeing they had enjoyed in the past is now gone. Influence is back...

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by mig17
Sun Feb 10, 2019 10:27 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Air France will place an order at Le Bourget - Anne Rigail, CEO
Replies: 116
Views: 22754

Re: Air France will place an order at Le Bourget - Anne Rigail, CEO

FlightLevel360 wrote:
Stupid question, but any chance of a new A380 order if the price is lowered drastically?


Not a chance. AF already converted the 2 last A380 they had on order to A350 and they are going to let go soon 2 to 5 of their 10 frames.

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by mig17
Sun Feb 10, 2019 10:16 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Air France will place an order at Le Bourget - Anne Rigail, CEO
Replies: 116
Views: 22754

Re: Air France will place an order at Le Bourget - Anne Rigail, CEO

Even if it is just AF, it has to include Hop! fleet renewal. I would say something like 70 to 100 A220 (100 and 300) and 50 A320NEO (mostly A321NEO/LR).
If it also involved Transavia and KLM, this should be fun to watch.

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by mig17
Sun Feb 10, 2019 8:51 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Air France will place an order at Le Bourget - Anne Rigail, CEO
Replies: 116
Views: 22754

Re: Air France will place an order at Le Bourget - Anne Rigail, CEO

Also depends if Transavia is involved.

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by mig17
Sat Feb 02, 2019 9:55 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Emirates considering order changes - Airbus A380 for A330/A350 confirmed, Boeing 787 for 777-9 still possible
Replies: 880
Views: 137668

Re: Emirates is exploring switching the Airbus A380 to A350

Why do so much people here think EK needs all the bird they have on order? They have on order 150 777-X (115 -9 and 35-8). That is far enought if not too much to replace the oldest 77W, 77L and A380. They also can ceep longer some "old" frames with is not realy the midle-estern way but wou...

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by mig17
Fri Feb 01, 2019 5:34 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Emirates considering order changes - Airbus A380 for A330/A350 confirmed, Boeing 787 for 777-9 still possible
Replies: 880
Views: 137668

Re: Emirates is exploring switching the Airbus A380 to A350

This can be nothing, just a PR/negociation move but it also can be more. It even can be a big bang ... Emirates has 53 A380 on orders, 36 of them not firmed because of engine option. Emirates has 150 77X still not unconditional. And Emirates has 40 787 on MOU. That is 243 aircraft "on order&quo...

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by mig17
Sun Jan 27, 2019 11:17 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Etihad to cancel a "significant amount" of A350 Order according to Aviation Analyst
Replies: 187
Views: 50682

Re: Etihad to cancel a "significant amount" of A350 Order according to Aviation Analyst

I strongly suspect aircraft contracts are negotiated individually with no consideration for the other manufacturer. And they all have penalties for cancellation, which can usually be waived only if the manufacturer is in violation of the contract, either in performance or delivery time. So I suspec...

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by mig17
Sun Jan 27, 2019 10:29 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Etihad to cancel a "significant amount" of A350 Order according to Aviation Analyst
Replies: 187
Views: 50682

Re: Etihad to cancel a "significant amount" of A350 Order according to Aviation Analyst

who would be able to pick up 5 a35k at fairly short notice? the a35k is not a particulary popular plane. BA is getting it's firsts A35K this year. They have 18 on order and are also getting a few more 77W. 5 more A35K could be a good fit after negotiation. Or for IB who already has the A359. Virgin...

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by mig17
Mon Jan 21, 2019 10:42 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Will UA order more 77W’s ?
Replies: 87
Views: 8676

Re: Will UA order more 77W’s ?

[twoid][/twoid] Agreed also, except I think a combination of 789s and 77Ws will replace the 772s. UA definitely needs the A220. The 100 seat plane at UA are the A319 still entering the fleet and the aging 737-700. United Express is more E-jet 170/5. And UA already have massives order of 737MAX -9/-...

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by mig17
Mon Jan 21, 2019 9:45 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Will UA order more 77W’s ?
Replies: 87
Views: 8676

Re: Will UA order more 77W’s ?

Plot twist: UA converts 45x A350 to 100x A220. 778 replaces the 772. You heard it here first ;) That would be a very good outcome. UA needs a 100 seat aircraft more than another large widebody. Agreed also, except I think a combination of 789s and 77Ws will replace the 772s. UA definitely needs the...

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by mig17
Sat Jan 19, 2019 12:39 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Why did UA choose the B777-300ER and ditch the A350-1000?
Replies: 110
Views: 25098

Re: Why did UA choose the B777-300ER and ditch the A350-1000?

What would be the capacity difference in United's 77W to a comparable A35K? Look at Cathay: 77W => 368 seats (40/32/296) A35K => 334 seats (46/32/256) So 9% less seat on the A350, 6 more J, 40 less Y (at 10 abreast on 777 while A350 is 9 abreast), overall same payload /range and better trip cost fo...

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by mig17
Thu Jan 17, 2019 5:58 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: a MTOW increase on 787-10 to compete with A359?
Replies: 604
Views: 85628

Re: a MTOW increase on 787-10 to compete with A359?

They AREN'T MEANINGLESS at all! The reason for this sales advantage during that time period is obvious- the 787 had SERIOUS problems with exploding batteries and other production issues! So manufacturers RATIONALLY saw a problem or potential one with a particular jet and they cancelled the heck out...

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by mig17
Thu Jan 10, 2019 11:28 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: B777-9 future prospects?
Replies: 350
Views: 52228

Re: B777-9 future prospects?

So the 77W "was not great at all" compared to 77E or 773? The 77W gained only 5% in empty weight yet also got 6% more wingspan and the engines were half a generation newer. None of this applies to the A350-1000 which gains twice as much weight, without any wingspan or engine improvements....

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by mig17
Thu Jan 10, 2019 10:50 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: B777-9 future prospects?
Replies: 350
Views: 52228

Re: B777-9 future prospects?

The only way to make a 777-10 is a simple stretch of a 777-9, same MTOW. No bigger engine needed. Any increase in MTOW would need a new MLG with big changes. Perhaps a third center MLG would do it, but I can not see such a solution. No sense to produce some few frames with big changes. The situatio...

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by mig17
Thu Jan 10, 2019 10:47 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: B777-9 future prospects?
Replies: 350
Views: 52228

Re: B777-9 future prospects?

A350-1000 provide great fuel efficiency and lower risk. The A350-1000 isn't that great at all. The A350-900 will always have 75+% of the order book which shows the 1000 isn't attractive. The reasons why is as follows: The 1000 is heavy as it is not a simple stretch. Most stretchs add capacity but p...

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by mig17
Tue Jan 08, 2019 2:23 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: B777-9 future prospects?
Replies: 350
Views: 52228

Re: B777-9 future prospects?

The 777-X, at least the -8 and -9 aren't A380 size aircraft. I can understand some airlines may want to down-gauge the whale but that doesn't make the 777-9 a dedicated A380 for the future. Also, the 777-X isn't in a completely different category than the A350-1000. In fact, the 777-8 has similar ca...

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by mig17
Sat Jan 05, 2019 10:53 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: B777-9 future prospects?
Replies: 350
Views: 52228

Re: B777-9 future prospects?

777-X future prospects? => Any airline with 747, 777, A340 or A380 to replace. That said, the business case of the 777-X isn't so bright for now. The 787 and A350 are the new"stars" and they are already here while the X isn-t ready yet. Plan to replace 747 have already been made without th...

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by mig17
Thu Dec 06, 2018 10:20 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Hop! end ATR ops, consider merger with Transavia
Replies: 38
Views: 9481

Re: Hop! end ATR ops, consider merger with Transavia

I flew a lot with Brit Air and Régional ten years ago between Strasbourg and Paris but since the arrival of the TGV (high speed train) all the way on this line, HOP was forced to retreated. Same goes with every TGV destination from / to Paris, HOP suffers too much of the train competition to be an e...

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