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by leghorn
Wed May 27, 2020 10:03 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Updated: Majority of LH Shareholders are Voting for Rescue Package
Replies: 502
Views: 61661

Re: Lufthansa: 10B EUR bailout - Update

I guess this is mostly a warning shot at the EU that LH can still decide whether any terms & conditions of the bailout are acceptable or not. If the conditions are too harsh, they have the option to decline and try to ride this out on their own. I'm not seeing how you are spinning this. I'm rem...

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by leghorn
Tue May 26, 2020 8:53 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Updated: Majority of LH Shareholders are Voting for Rescue Package
Replies: 502
Views: 61661

Re: Lufthansa: 10B EUR bailout - Update

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/tra ... -1.4262909

Ryanair are, understandably, unhappy and will go to the E.U. Courts.
-->

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/tra ... -1.4262909

Ryanair are, understandably, unhappy and will go to the E.U. Courts.

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by leghorn
Mon May 25, 2020 7:29 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Air France A380 retirement/parking thread
Replies: 483
Views: 60425

Re: Air France to retire A380 fleet effective immediately

Beautiful Bird.

Finding a second life for these planes will be the difference between Air France loosing just a lot of money and a humongous amount of money.

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by leghorn
Mon May 25, 2020 3:07 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Updated: Majority of LH Shareholders are Voting for Rescue Package
Replies: 502
Views: 61661

Re: Lufthansa: 10B EUR bailout - Update

https://www.deutschlandfunk.de/lufthansa-staatshilfe-eu-genehmigung-offenbar-nur-unter.1939.de.html?drn:news_id=1134174 German text. DLF says that the E.U. will demand that Lufthansa surrender slots at their fortress airports in exchange for support but Merkel has rejected it although last time I lo...

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by leghorn
Mon May 25, 2020 2:56 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Air France A380 retirement/parking thread
Replies: 483
Views: 60425

Re: Air France to retire A380 fleet effective immediately

I've moved on to freight now, not passenger traffic.

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by leghorn
Mon May 25, 2020 2:49 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Updated: Laudamotion scaling down VIE base to 10 aircraft, from 16
Replies: 168
Views: 19909

Re: Laudamotion closing its VIE base May 29th.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Single_Market

The European Single Market, Internal Market or Common Market is a single market which seeks to guarantee the free movement of goods, capital, services, and labour – the ‘four freedoms‘ – within the European Union (EU).
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Single_Market

The European Single Market, Internal Market or Common Market is a single market which seeks to guarantee the free movement of goods, capital, services, and labour – the ‘four freedoms‘ – within the European Union (EU).

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by leghorn
Mon May 25, 2020 2:32 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Updated: Laudamotion scaling down VIE base to 10 aircraft, from 16
Replies: 168
Views: 19909

Re: Laudamotion closing its VIE base May 29th.

I think they are lower cost than Wizz Air on everything already except Labour and Leases on Airframes and that is now addressed with this move.
They're back on cheap 737-800s which they own and they have the option of cheap Polish or Maltese labour or a combination of both.

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by leghorn
Mon May 25, 2020 2:26 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Air France A380 retirement/parking thread
Replies: 483
Views: 60425

Re: Air France to retire A380 fleet effective immediately

60million was mentioned as resale price of a A380 now. That leeham screenshot mentions a resale price of 120m for a mid-life 777.
My arithmetic tells me there are 60 million reasons to try to make it work where ever it can work.

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by leghorn
Mon May 25, 2020 2:00 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Air France A380 retirement/parking thread
Replies: 483
Views: 60425

Re: Air France to retire A380 fleet effective immediately

They're not as insurmountable for the big freight airports.

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by leghorn
Mon May 25, 2020 11:28 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Updated: Majority of LH Shareholders are Voting for Rescue Package
Replies: 502
Views: 61661

Re: Lufthansa: 10B EUR bailout - Update

shareholders have to be diluted. To get a 20%shareo fthe company the amount of shares issued to the government will be around 25% of the current issued shares in circulation.
So the cost so far is 3 billion loan plus unknown amount for the 20% share.

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by leghorn
Mon May 25, 2020 10:59 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Air France A380 retirement/parking thread
Replies: 483
Views: 60425

Re: Air France to retire A380 fleet effective immediately

Some genius will find out how to lay down a lattice of light carbon fibre or aluminium support rods and beams for the floor and the planes will become attractive for Freight. I'd guess they'll put in some sort of internal lift from floor to floor so that fewer expensive cargo doors are needed. Many ...

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by leghorn
Sun May 24, 2020 8:20 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Updated: Majority of LH Shareholders are Voting for Rescue Package
Replies: 502
Views: 61661

Re: Lufthansa: 10B EUR bailout - Update

No really, I have to take you to task on this; there is absolutely no way that the company can return the additional debt\equity and still keep the business on an even keel but you are asserting that it is entirely possible. Somebody may be drinking the Kool Aid but it isn't me.

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by leghorn
Sun May 24, 2020 1:49 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Updated: Majority of LH Shareholders are Voting for Rescue Package
Replies: 502
Views: 61661

Re: Lufthansa: 10B EUR bailout - Update

Do you expect them to carry the 135000 workers for the next two to three years while revenue and passenger numbers have fallen off a cliff and the Politicians are promising that the investment of 10Bn will be returned to taxpayers.

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by leghorn
Sun May 24, 2020 1:25 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Updated: Majority of LH Shareholders are Voting for Rescue Package
Replies: 502
Views: 61661

Re: Lufthansa: 10B EUR bailout - Update

https://www.aero.de/news-35509/Ufo-fuer ... hansa.html

...because a lean, competitive company would be a bad thing.
-->

Blerg wrote:
Lufthansa cabin crew union UFO fears that now that the government did not get a blocking majority, there might be layoffs at LH.

https://www.aero.de/news-35509/Ufo-fuer ... hansa.html

...because a lean, competitive company would be a bad thing.

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by leghorn
Sun May 24, 2020 12:54 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Updated: Majority of LH Shareholders are Voting for Rescue Package
Replies: 502
Views: 61661

Re: Lufthansa: 10B EUR bailout - Update

So you admit you are wrong and you are suffering the same irrational exuberance as the Politicians involved in this sh!tshow.. Alright.

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by leghorn
Sun May 24, 2020 11:29 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Updated: Majority of LH Shareholders are Voting for Rescue Package
Replies: 502
Views: 61661

Re: Lufthansa: 10B EUR bailout - Update

Altmaier, the Finance Minister is on TV this morning swearing they'll be in and out of Lufthansa in a jiffy and wont' be there for the long run. How they expect any business to be able to clear 9 to 10 Billion of equity\debt in the space of a few years is beyond me. This company has a market capita...

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by leghorn
Sat May 23, 2020 11:18 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Updated: Majority of LH Shareholders are Voting for Rescue Package
Replies: 502
Views: 61661

Re: Lufthansa: 10B EUR bailout - Update

Altmaier, the Finance Minister is on TV this morning swearing they'll be in and out of Lufthansa in a jiffy and wont' be there for the long run. How they expect any business to be able to clear 9 to 10 Billion of equity\debt in the space of a few years is beyond me. This company has a market capital...

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by leghorn
Sat May 23, 2020 11:11 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Updated: Laudamotion scaling down VIE base to 10 aircraft, from 16
Replies: 168
Views: 19909

Re: Laudamotion closing its VIE base May 29th.

Right on point! Being yet not completely ruined, I will continue to vote with my wallet, and avoid FR as much as possible, also because the cheapest fare hides also worst service and the airport they serve they are not the best, I need space for my legs, and prefer to fly with whom respects the emp...

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by leghorn
Fri May 22, 2020 9:37 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Air France A380 retirement/parking thread
Replies: 483
Views: 60425

Re: Air France to retire A380 fleet effective immediately

https://www.forbes.com/sites/michaelgoldstein/2020/03/09/airbus-a380-value-continues-to-plummet/#33dc7d5c489c I don't know if this was posted here or elsewhere previously. Interesting estimated low part out prices. https://leehamnews.com/2018/02/16/leahy-remains-steadfast-a380-future/ Leahy said the...

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by leghorn
Fri May 22, 2020 3:10 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Updated: Majority of LH Shareholders are Voting for Rescue Package
Replies: 502
Views: 61661

Re: Lufthansa: 10B EUR bailout - Update

https://www.reuters.com/article/health- ... SFWN2D40JO
As mentioned earlier Airbus Order pre-conditons for Lufthansa aid.
-->

https://www.reuters.com/article/health- ... SFWN2D40JO
As mentioned earlier Airbus Order pre-conditons for Lufthansa aid.

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by leghorn
Fri May 22, 2020 1:49 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Updated: Laudamotion scaling down VIE base to 10 aircraft, from 16
Replies: 168
Views: 19909

Re: Laudamotion closing its VIE base May 29th.

I don't see Ryanair leaving Vienna. Buzz it will be most likely and they'll continue to compete from a lower cost base than the others...perhaps even with many of the same staff on different contracts.

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by leghorn
Fri May 22, 2020 1:45 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Updated: Majority of LH Shareholders are Voting for Rescue Package
Replies: 502
Views: 61661

Re: Lufthansa: 10B EUR bailout - Update

Well they can only buy so many A350s for the government fleet themselves.

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by leghorn
Fri May 22, 2020 12:11 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Updated: Laudamotion scaling down VIE base to 10 aircraft, from 16
Replies: 168
Views: 19909

Re: Laudamotion closing its VIE base May 29th.

Ryanair knows their offer was below any minimum standard. They put it on the table to have an excuse to close the base and blame it on the union. Exactly this. Good riddance, Ryanair is the sort of company that no one should be sad to see go. :checkmark: Ryanair is a scourge on the European skies a...

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by leghorn
Fri May 22, 2020 10:52 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Updated: Laudamotion scaling down VIE base to 10 aircraft, from 16
Replies: 168
Views: 19909

Re: Laudamotion closing its VIE base May 29th.

No one sad beyond the 300 and taxpayers who have to pay corporate welfare and lose more locally employed employees so those same taxpayers have to shoulder more of the cost of running the country. The incumbent airlines are laughing at ye all while ye spout Socialist jingoism.

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by leghorn
Fri May 22, 2020 10:19 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Updated: Laudamotion scaling down VIE base to 10 aircraft, from 16
Replies: 168
Views: 19909

Re: Laudamotion closing its VIE base May 29th.

was the union protecting other sub payers at their expense?

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by leghorn
Fri May 22, 2020 10:14 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Updated: Laudamotion scaling down VIE base to 10 aircraft, from 16
Replies: 168
Views: 19909

Re: Laudamotion closing its VIE base May 29th.

Yes, the Austrian economy won't get independent companies back and fall in to the clutches of Lufthansa who expect to be bailed out forever more.
Bad deal for Austrian taxpayers. This corporate social welfare must stop as ot distorts the market.
The only support should be in the form of pso routes.

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by leghorn
Fri May 22, 2020 9:34 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Updated: Laudamotion scaling down VIE base to 10 aircraft, from 16
Replies: 168
Views: 19909

Re: Laudamotion closing its VIE base May 29th.

you seem to be taking delight in the loss of jobs at a difficult time when employees will find it hard to find new positions.

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by leghorn
Fri May 22, 2020 9:07 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Ryanair Threatens EU Over State Aid to Airlines
Replies: 342
Views: 29942

Re: Ryanair Threatens EU Over State Aid to Airlines

https://wien.orf.at/stories/3049817/
-->

Lauda base at Vienna closing:
https://wien.orf.at/stories/3049817/

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by leghorn
Fri May 22, 2020 9:05 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Ryanair back to all Boeing, cancelling leases for Airbus A320s.
Replies: 45
Views: 10694

Re: Ryanair back to all Boeing, cancelling leases for Airbus A320s.

https://wien.orf.at/stories/3049817/
-->

One step closer:
Lauda, an Airbus fleet, closing in Vienna.
https://wien.orf.at/stories/3049817/

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by leghorn
Thu May 21, 2020 9:03 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Updated: Majority of LH Shareholders are Voting for Rescue Package
Replies: 502
Views: 61661

Re: Lufthansa: 10B EUR bailout - Update

even if you were right do you think that having the greens in power instead of the SPD will make it easier for the taxpayer to get a return on their involuntary investment?

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by leghorn
Thu May 21, 2020 6:48 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Air France A380 retirement/parking thread
Replies: 483
Views: 60425

Re: Air France to retire A380 fleet effective immediately

If there wasn't enough information to understand all of that, the fact that they could not get enough customer buy ins to do a NEO or even wingtip optimizations in the mid 2010s should have been enough to understand it was not long for this world. If you think that, you're somehow seeing the world ...

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by leghorn
Thu May 21, 2020 6:11 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Updated: Majority of LH Shareholders are Voting for Rescue Package
Replies: 502
Views: 61661

Re: Lufthansa: 10B EUR bailout - Update

last time I looked SPD were in Government. The greens won't be enough to form a government with CDU so Germany will have some sort of rainbow government with socialists in it. They will never find the right time to sell it.

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by leghorn
Thu May 21, 2020 6:06 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Air France A380 retirement/parking thread
Replies: 483
Views: 60425

Re: Air France to retire A380 fleet effective immediately

I think the number is higher than you'd think. Many of us have felt that the a380 was a financial disaster and once egos cooled and EK hit some maturity, it was dead in the water. Launching the a380 in the mid-2000s is akin to Ford bringing a Steam powered car. Obsolete as the 77W had sapped up the...

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by leghorn
Thu May 21, 2020 1:11 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Updated: Majority of LH Shareholders are Voting for Rescue Package
Replies: 502
Views: 61661

Re: Lufthansa: 10B EUR bailout - Update

https://www.airliners.de/schlechter-dea ... aket/55521


It is a bad deal but I was fairly sure that it would happen - after all, it is only taxpayer's money.
-->

Blerg wrote:
Criticism is mounting regarding this deal, regardless of what they say I doubt it will change anything.

https://www.airliners.de/schlechter-dea ... aket/55521


It is a bad deal but I was fairly sure that it would happen - after all, it is only taxpayer's money.

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by leghorn
Thu May 21, 2020 1:09 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Updated: Majority of LH Shareholders are Voting for Rescue Package
Replies: 502
Views: 61661

Re: Lufthansa: 10B EUR bailout - Update

Governments don't sell once they take a shareholding. It is politically unpalatable. Ireland could have sold its shares it the Irish banks in 2018 when it was advised by experts to do so but politically they felt it was better to avoid it despite being able to recover billions of euro. Now the share...

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by leghorn
Thu May 21, 2020 1:02 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Updated: Majority of LH Shareholders are Voting for Rescue Package
Replies: 502
Views: 61661

Re: Lufthansa: 10B EUR bailout - Update

All the past years we had strikes all over with a private independent Lufthansa. Maybe this is part of their problem? Unwillingness to change? Now with the public behind it and the pressure to pay back those loans the situation can only improve. The government will not oppose restructuring as they ...

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by leghorn
Thu May 21, 2020 1:00 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Updated: Majority of LH Shareholders are Voting for Rescue Package
Replies: 502
Views: 61661

Re: Lufthansa: 10B EUR bailout - Update

Because it is now a company run which is now controlled by an entity that will do anything to avoid unrest and the company once funded by Government will not be in danger of bankruptcy so Unions can play hardball again. It will be Alitalia all over again. If they don't start kicking up by Christmas ...

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by leghorn
Thu May 21, 2020 12:27 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Updated: Majority of LH Shareholders are Voting for Rescue Package
Replies: 502
Views: 61661

Re: Lufthansa: 10B EUR bailout - Update

Lufthansa was an industrial relations nightmare before this. It will be strikes all the way going forward now that the Government is the largest shareholder but Mutti will be retired in 2021 so she won't care.

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by leghorn
Wed May 20, 2020 1:46 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Updated: Majority of LH Shareholders are Voting for Rescue Package
Replies: 502
Views: 61661

Re: Lufthansa: 10B EUR bailout - Update

I really don't see the need to bail them out as other airlines especially LCCs will jump on the routes they vacate. Lufthansa will vacate less profitable routes which they can't make money on but which LCCs or airlines with smaller efficient planes will operate. The routes which don't get picked up ...

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by leghorn
Wed May 20, 2020 10:38 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Updated: Majority of LH Shareholders are Voting for Rescue Package
Replies: 502
Views: 61661

Re: Lufthansa: 10B EUR bailout - Update

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... -rumble-on

Still dragging on with Lufthansa Management becoming impatient.
"So are ye going to give us that €10,000,000,000 or not? Hop to. Los, Los, Los"
-->

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... -rumble-on

Still dragging on with Lufthansa Management becoming impatient.
"So are ye going to give us that €10,000,000,000 or not? Hop to. Los, Los, Los"

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by leghorn
Tue May 19, 2020 5:25 pm
Forum: Travel, Polls & Preferences
Topic: Scheduled long distance routes with small aircraft (incl stopovers)?
Replies: 49
Views: 4709

Re: Scheduled long distance routes with small aircraft (incl stopovers)?

I have touched a nerve there and you are tying yourself up in knots to defend the indefensible.. You really are struggling to defend this Island which can't be maintained as an overseas territory of France. Firstly US isn't the nearest first world country so lets get that strawman knocked down down ...

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by leghorn
Tue May 19, 2020 1:38 pm
Forum: Travel, Polls & Preferences
Topic: Scheduled long distance routes with small aircraft (incl stopovers)?
Replies: 49
Views: 4709

Re: Scheduled long distance routes with small aircraft (incl stopovers)?

Not everything is about making money. Essential air services and all that. AFAIK, it is Air Tahiti Nui's job to transport patients to and from France for complicated medical treatment. There is cargo that needs to be transported to the islands. If a ferry breaks down, you can't wait 2 months for th...

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by leghorn
Mon May 18, 2020 8:20 pm
Forum: Travel, Polls & Preferences
Topic: Scheduled long distance routes with small aircraft (incl stopovers)?
Replies: 49
Views: 4709

Re: Scheduled long distance routes with small aircraft (incl stopovers)?

https://www.lnc.nc/breve/french-bee-bat-le-record-du-vol-le-plus-long-entre-papeete-et-paris This interests me - not a small aircraft because a smaller aircraft can't do it. French Polynesia is sinking or rather sea levels are rising and these type routes aren't doing a jot of good for the long ter...

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by leghorn
Mon May 18, 2020 1:34 pm
Forum: Travel, Polls & Preferences
Topic: Scheduled long distance routes with small aircraft (incl stopovers)?
Replies: 49
Views: 4709

Re: Scheduled long distance routes with small aircraft (incl stopovers)?

https://www.lnc.nc/breve/french-bee-bat-le-record-du-vol-le-plus-long-entre-papeete-et-paris This interests me - not a small aircraft because a smaller aircraft can't do it. French Polynesia is sinking or rather sea levels are rising and these type routes aren't doing a jot of good for the long term...

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by leghorn
Thu May 14, 2020 12:14 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Ryanair Threatens EU Over State Aid to Airlines
Replies: 342
Views: 29942

Re: Ryanair Threatens EU Over State Aid to Airlines

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/transport-and-tourism/ryanair-to-oppose-800m-subsidy-to-rival-austrian-airlines-1.4252755 Nothing especially new here. State Aid accessible to all is OK. It can easily afford to bring each one of these illegal state support measures to E.U. Courts. The French stat...

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by leghorn
Tue May 12, 2020 6:43 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Ryanair back to all Boeing, cancelling leases for Airbus A320s.
Replies: 45
Views: 10694

Re: Ryanair back to all Boeing, cancelling leases for Airbus A320s.

737 can do everything the want it to do for the next 15 to 20 years... City pairs, economic migrant transport, bucket and spade routes from Northern Europe, even hop over to East Coast America from British Isles(I can only see them doing this to damage the revenue streams of their competitors rather...

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by leghorn
Tue May 12, 2020 6:12 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Ryanair back to all Boeing, cancelling leases for Airbus A320s.
Replies: 45
Views: 10694

Re: Ryanair back to all Boeing, cancelling leases for Airbus A320s.

This means Ryanair has offers in the bag from Boeing for airframe at prices they are happy with. They may still be in negotiation but they've got 737s at the right price.

There is no way they would talk about switching to 737 in Lauda until this was done.

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by leghorn
Tue May 12, 2020 12:32 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Ryanair Threatens EU Over State Aid to Airlines
Replies: 342
Views: 29942

Re: Ryanair Threatens EU Over State Aid to Airlines

If the guiding principles of the E.U. are not upheld then the smaller states might as well not be in the E.U. and they will one by one fall away and fall under the influence of external actors who will endanger the long term prospects of the founding member economically and otherwise.

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by leghorn
Tue May 12, 2020 9:26 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Ryanair Threatens EU Over State Aid to Airlines
Replies: 342
Views: 29942

Re: Ryanair Threatens EU Over State Aid to Airlines

This is exactly what you see in France. They tie state support to whether the business in in France. They do it in the automotive market, they do it now in aviation as well. Moreover, you see this logic in more countries. Why support companies who either don't (or barely) pay taxes in the respectiv...

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