I guess this is mostly a warning shot at the EU that LH can still decide whether any terms & conditions of the bailout are acceptable or not. If the conditions are too harsh, they have the option to decline and try to ride this out on their own. I'm not seeing how you are spinning this. I'm rem...Jump to post
https://www.irishtimes.com/business/tra ... -1.4262909
Ryanair are, understandably, unhappy and will go to the E.U. Courts.
Finding a second life for these planes will be the difference between Air France loosing just a lot of money and a humongous amount of money.
https://www.deutschlandfunk.de/lufthansa-staatshilfe-eu-genehmigung-offenbar-nur-unter.1939.de.html?drn:news_id=1134174 German text. DLF says that the E.U. will demand that Lufthansa surrender slots at their fortress airports in exchange for support but Merkel has rejected it although last time I lo...Jump to post
I've moved on to freight now, not passenger traffic.Jump to post
The European Single Market, Internal Market or Common Market is a single market which seeks to guarantee the free movement of goods, capital, services, and labour – the ‘four freedoms‘ – within the European Union (EU).
I think they are lower cost than Wizz Air on everything already except Labour and Leases on Airframes and that is now addressed with this move.
They're back on cheap 737-800s which they own and they have the option of cheap Polish or Maltese labour or a combination of both.
60million was mentioned as resale price of a A380 now. That leeham screenshot mentions a resale price of 120m for a mid-life 777.
My arithmetic tells me there are 60 million reasons to try to make it work where ever it can work.
They're not as insurmountable for the big freight airports.Jump to post
shareholders have to be diluted. To get a 20%shareo fthe company the amount of shares issued to the government will be around 25% of the current issued shares in circulation.
So the cost so far is 3 billion loan plus unknown amount for the 20% share.
Some genius will find out how to lay down a lattice of light carbon fibre or aluminium support rods and beams for the floor and the planes will become attractive for Freight. I'd guess they'll put in some sort of internal lift from floor to floor so that fewer expensive cargo doors are needed. Many ...Jump to post
No really, I have to take you to task on this; there is absolutely no way that the company can return the additional debt\equity and still keep the business on an even keel but you are asserting that it is entirely possible. Somebody may be drinking the Kool Aid but it isn't me.Jump to post
Blerg wrote:Lufthansa cabin crew union UFO fears that now that the government did not get a blocking majority, there might be layoffs at LH.
https://www.aero.de/news-35509/Ufo-fuer ... hansa.html
Altmaier, the Finance Minister is on TV this morning swearing they'll be in and out of Lufthansa in a jiffy and wont' be there for the long run. How they expect any business to be able to clear 9 to 10 Billion of equity\debt in the space of a few years is beyond me. This company has a market capita...Jump to post
Altmaier, the Finance Minister is on TV this morning swearing they'll be in and out of Lufthansa in a jiffy and wont' be there for the long run. How they expect any business to be able to clear 9 to 10 Billion of equity\debt in the space of a few years is beyond me. This company has a market capital...Jump to post
Right on point! Being yet not completely ruined, I will continue to vote with my wallet, and avoid FR as much as possible, also because the cheapest fare hides also worst service and the airport they serve they are not the best, I need space for my legs, and prefer to fly with whom respects the emp...Jump to post
https://www.forbes.com/sites/michaelgoldstein/2020/03/09/airbus-a380-value-continues-to-plummet/#33dc7d5c489c I don't know if this was posted here or elsewhere previously. Interesting estimated low part out prices. https://leehamnews.com/2018/02/16/leahy-remains-steadfast-a380-future/ Leahy said the...Jump to post
https://www.airliners.de/bundesregierun ... buch/55543
148 Airbus airframes in play.
https://www.reuters.com/article/health- ... SFWN2D40JO
As mentioned earlier Airbus Order pre-conditons for Lufthansa aid.
Ryanair knows their offer was below any minimum standard. They put it on the table to have an excuse to close the base and blame it on the union. Exactly this. Good riddance, Ryanair is the sort of company that no one should be sad to see go. :checkmark: Ryanair is a scourge on the European skies a...Jump to post
No one sad beyond the 300 and taxpayers who have to pay corporate welfare and lose more locally employed employees so those same taxpayers have to shoulder more of the cost of running the country. The incumbent airlines are laughing at ye all while ye spout Socialist jingoism.Jump to post
Yes, the Austrian economy won't get independent companies back and fall in to the clutches of Lufthansa who expect to be bailed out forever more.
Bad deal for Austrian taxpayers. This corporate social welfare must stop as ot distorts the market.
The only support should be in the form of pso routes.
One step closer:
Lauda, an Airbus fleet, closing in Vienna.
If there wasn't enough information to understand all of that, the fact that they could not get enough customer buy ins to do a NEO or even wingtip optimizations in the mid 2010s should have been enough to understand it was not long for this world. If you think that, you're somehow seeing the world ...Jump to post
I think the number is higher than you'd think. Many of us have felt that the a380 was a financial disaster and once egos cooled and EK hit some maturity, it was dead in the water. Launching the a380 in the mid-2000s is akin to Ford bringing a Steam powered car. Obsolete as the 77W had sapped up the...Jump to post
Blerg wrote:Criticism is mounting regarding this deal, regardless of what they say I doubt it will change anything.
https://www.airliners.de/schlechter-dea ... aket/55521
Governments don't sell once they take a shareholding. It is politically unpalatable. Ireland could have sold its shares it the Irish banks in 2018 when it was advised by experts to do so but politically they felt it was better to avoid it despite being able to recover billions of euro. Now the share...Jump to post
All the past years we had strikes all over with a private independent Lufthansa. Maybe this is part of their problem? Unwillingness to change? Now with the public behind it and the pressure to pay back those loans the situation can only improve. The government will not oppose restructuring as they ...Jump to post
Because it is now a company run which is now controlled by an entity that will do anything to avoid unrest and the company once funded by Government will not be in danger of bankruptcy so Unions can play hardball again. It will be Alitalia all over again. If they don't start kicking up by Christmas ...Jump to post
I really don't see the need to bail them out as other airlines especially LCCs will jump on the routes they vacate. Lufthansa will vacate less profitable routes which they can't make money on but which LCCs or airlines with smaller efficient planes will operate. The routes which don't get picked up ...Jump to post
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... -rumble-on
Still dragging on with Lufthansa Management becoming impatient.
"So are ye going to give us that €10,000,000,000 or not? Hop to. Los, Los, Los"
I have touched a nerve there and you are tying yourself up in knots to defend the indefensible.. You really are struggling to defend this Island which can't be maintained as an overseas territory of France. Firstly US isn't the nearest first world country so lets get that strawman knocked down down ...Jump to post
Not everything is about making money. Essential air services and all that. AFAIK, it is Air Tahiti Nui's job to transport patients to and from France for complicated medical treatment. There is cargo that needs to be transported to the islands. If a ferry breaks down, you can't wait 2 months for th...Jump to post
https://www.lnc.nc/breve/french-bee-bat-le-record-du-vol-le-plus-long-entre-papeete-et-paris This interests me - not a small aircraft because a smaller aircraft can't do it. French Polynesia is sinking or rather sea levels are rising and these type routes aren't doing a jot of good for the long ter...Jump to post
https://www.lnc.nc/breve/french-bee-bat-le-record-du-vol-le-plus-long-entre-papeete-et-paris This interests me - not a small aircraft because a smaller aircraft can't do it. French Polynesia is sinking or rather sea levels are rising and these type routes aren't doing a jot of good for the long term...Jump to post
https://www.irishtimes.com/business/transport-and-tourism/ryanair-to-oppose-800m-subsidy-to-rival-austrian-airlines-1.4252755 Nothing especially new here. State Aid accessible to all is OK. It can easily afford to bring each one of these illegal state support measures to E.U. Courts. The French stat...Jump to post
737 can do everything the want it to do for the next 15 to 20 years... City pairs, economic migrant transport, bucket and spade routes from Northern Europe, even hop over to East Coast America from British Isles(I can only see them doing this to damage the revenue streams of their competitors rather...Jump to post
This means Ryanair has offers in the bag from Boeing for airframe at prices they are happy with. They may still be in negotiation but they've got 737s at the right price.
There is no way they would talk about switching to 737 in Lauda until this was done.
If the guiding principles of the E.U. are not upheld then the smaller states might as well not be in the E.U. and they will one by one fall away and fall under the influence of external actors who will endanger the long term prospects of the founding member economically and otherwise.Jump to post
This is exactly what you see in France. They tie state support to whether the business in in France. They do it in the automotive market, they do it now in aviation as well. Moreover, you see this logic in more countries. Why support companies who either don't (or barely) pay taxes in the respectiv...Jump to post