Search found 2344 matches

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by zakuivcustom
Mon May 20, 2019 2:53 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Which routes do BA have their 77W on?
Replies: 23
Views: 3623

Re: Which routes do BA have their 77W on!?

As of today: Tokyo Haneda, Singapore/Sidney, Hong Kong, Beijing, JFK, TLV, Sao Paulo, and San Diego. Aircraft do move around a lot, and in the winter San Diego is a 747 And just adding on to this: BA247/246 LHR-GRU BA039/038 LHR-PEK BA027/028 LHR-HKG BA165/164 LHR-TLV BA007/008 LHR-HND BA015/016 LH...

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by zakuivcustom
Mon May 20, 2019 1:53 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Why doesn't Delta fly ATL-PEK?
Replies: 21
Views: 3363

Re: Why doesn't Delta fly ATL-PEK?

LAXdude1023 wrote:
DTW-China is actually pretty large. Much more so than ATL. But PVG is the primary demand source not PEK.


True...when SAIC-GM is right there to fill up those seat.

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by zakuivcustom
Mon May 20, 2019 1:50 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Asiana starting ICN-ULN starting 7/9/2019
Replies: 19
Views: 2026

Re: Asiana starting ICN-ULN starting 7/9/2019

TWA772LR wrote: An airline that is havong big financial woes, is starting a new route. ...to Mongolia. What can go wrong? A) there's more tourism to Mongolia than you probably realize... and Koreans are the clear #3 group (following China, Russia) B) there are no non-stops to Japan... leaving conne...

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by zakuivcustom
Mon May 20, 2019 1:21 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Why doesn't Delta fly ATL-PEK?
Replies: 21
Views: 3363

Re: Why doesn't Delta fly ATL-PEK?

I'll put aside whether DL "can" or "can't" fly the route. They could have asked for route authority if DL really wish to fly the route. Quite frankly, the demand is not there at all. No matter which way you put it, Chinese routes still depend on VFR traffic in the back to fill th...

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by zakuivcustom
Mon May 20, 2019 1:11 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Asiana starting ICN-ULN starting 7/9/2019
Replies: 19
Views: 2026

Re: Asiana starting ICN-ULN starting 7/9/2019

I remember some time ago when I landed at ICN there was a MIAT B767 parked so volume is probably there. Also, I don't think we can compare this route to DEL as at least here their costs will be considerably lower since the flight is shorter and they can use a narrowbody. And KE currently fly the ro...

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by zakuivcustom
Sun May 19, 2019 5:41 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Asiana starting ICN-ULN starting 7/9/2019
Replies: 19
Views: 2026

Re: Asiana starting ICN-ULN starting 7/9/2019

I'm also wondering how this route is going to compare to their ICN-DEL performance (which is ending in July). As far as I know, India and Mongolia are somewhat distant travel destinations for Koreans, so my guess is that the tourist volume would be roughly the same. Also, OZ probably would have a b...

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by zakuivcustom
Sun May 19, 2019 3:16 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Will DL return to Hong Kong anytime soon?
Replies: 102
Views: 10208

Re: Will DL return to Hong Kong anytime soon?

Just because you guys can enjoy the fare that is not applicable to HKers. I once had family emergency near xmas (i.e. one of the peak seasons for Western world) and some family members had to rush back to HK from US. The last min fare during a peak seasons merely cost them a little more then HKD300...

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by zakuivcustom
Sun May 19, 2019 2:45 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Will DL return to Hong Kong anytime soon?
Replies: 102
Views: 10208

Re: Will DL return to Hong Kong anytime soon?

Strikes me that it might be a similar transaction if the bought Hong Kong Airlines. This would give them a local partner with their own FFer community and contracts to sell DL's US network in competition with CX/AA. It was something that I throw out before (Way back when DL ended HKG). But if you l...

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by zakuivcustom
Sun May 19, 2019 3:52 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Will DL return to Hong Kong anytime soon?
Replies: 102
Views: 10208

Re: Will DL return to Hong Kong anytime soon?

I think PEK, SIN, MNL are all on the chopping block. Getting somewhat off topic, but why would DL drop PEK (Other than moving to PKX, that is)? Mainland PRC is not part of KE-DL JV, and PEK involved a backtrack from PVG on MU. Plus MU has a decent presence in BJS market even now. And that should on...

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by zakuivcustom
Sun May 19, 2019 1:02 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: New Greater Seattle Airport
Replies: 93
Views: 8367

Re: New Greater Seattle Airport

As for the main subject, I look forward to this airport opening in 2075. It'll still open before BER does, though. :duck: For the article - seriously, they're comparing Moses Lake to NRT? They realized that NRT is only ~40mi away from central Tokyo, right? BLI is a lot closer, and there's even Olym...

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by zakuivcustom
Sun May 19, 2019 12:51 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: ICN Restrictions
Replies: 30
Views: 4173

Re: ICN Restrictions

FYI, here are the 2018 Jan-Nov Transpacific seat capacity (excl. Oceania; only U.S. Mainland): Row Labels Sum of SEATS United Air Lines Inc. 2311078 Delta Air Lines Inc. 1359460 Korean Air Lines Co. Ltd. 1240742 American Airlines Inc. 1212120 Cathay Pacific Airways Ltd. 1133895 Eva Airways Corporat...

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by zakuivcustom
Sat May 18, 2019 10:50 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: ICN Restrictions
Replies: 30
Views: 4173

Re: ICN Restrictions

ICN-DAD round trip load factor for January 2019 is... 92.1%. I know it's crazy. More than half of the S Korean population departed the country last year. I'm not surprised by the "half of the South Korean population departed the country last year" part at all. Korean tourists are everywhe...

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by zakuivcustom
Sat May 18, 2019 6:57 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Will DL return to Hong Kong anytime soon?
Replies: 102
Views: 10208

Re: Will DL return to Hong Kong anytime soon?

I though I read that MF is leaving SEA. Is that not correct? I couldn't find anything in that regards. MF is staying AFAIK. UA actually has partnerships on the HKG end and, for example, will sell a discount ticket SFO-HKG-xyz connecting on CX/KA/JM/HX. I was definitely surprised by the amount of in...

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by zakuivcustom
Sat May 18, 2019 6:34 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Will DL return to Hong Kong anytime soon?
Replies: 102
Views: 10208

Re: Will DL return to Hong Kong anytime soon?

I read someone that the HKG market is incredibly alliance driven with OneWorld & CX making the majority of the passengers and only routes with high O&D survive on *A for example (e.g. United & SFO, EWR & ORD). It's not as much "alliance driven" IMHO, but more of the fact t...

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by zakuivcustom
Sat May 18, 2019 5:11 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Will DL return to Hong Kong anytime soon?
Replies: 102
Views: 10208

Re: Will DL return to Hong Kong anytime soon?

“We welcome Cathay Pacific to the Seattle market and hope they lose just as much money flying to Hong Kong as we did.” -Delta last fall shortly after they canceled the route and CX picked it up. The problems for DL in SEA-HKG were myriad: no onward connections, inefficient airplanes for the route (...

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by zakuivcustom
Sat May 18, 2019 2:21 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Will DL return to Hong Kong anytime soon?
Replies: 102
Views: 10208

Re: Will DL return to Hong Kong anytime soon?

don't know why they kept on failing in HKG while AA as a late entrance can be successful in LAX & DTW. They have relatively good services and product images in HKG (compared to other US3). Are you not aware of AA's partner Cathay Pacific? DL to HKG is O&D. AA has lots on onward connections....

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by zakuivcustom
Sat May 18, 2019 2:07 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: ICN Restrictions
Replies: 30
Views: 4173

Re: ICN Restrictions

Could UA potentially make ICN their secondary hub given their strong partnership with OZ (not sure if they have a JV), I'm not sure about this part. AFAIK UA and OZ doesn't really partner with each other all that much other than some codeshares. At a minimum, I'm pretty sure UA-NH relation is a lot...

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by zakuivcustom
Sat May 18, 2019 1:24 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Korean Air Athens flight?
Replies: 7
Views: 4023

Re: Korean Air Athens flight?

When I was in Prague, I was shocked that KE sent the 747-8 there. That and the Emirates A380 seemed huge compared to the size of the airport. Korean owns 44% of CSA, of course they will be sending heavy metal into CSA´s fortress hub! Not anymore, as KE sold that share to Travelservice. Regardless, ...

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by zakuivcustom
Sat May 18, 2019 1:16 am
Forum: Travel, Polls & Preferences
Topic: Why doesn't Itami have any International Flights?
Replies: 10
Views: 1635

Re: Why doesn't Itami have any International Flights?

Perhaps a better question is why does Itami still exist after megabucks were spent building KIX. B/c for all the noise concern, people love their airport that's in the smack middle of the city? Hence they come up with all the restrictions as compromise, i.e. No international flights; Limited to 370...

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by zakuivcustom
Fri May 17, 2019 7:12 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Airbus A350 Production/Delivery Thread - 2019
Replies: 585
Views: 229469

Re: Airbus A350 Production/Delivery Thread - 2019

First flight for Japan Airlines A359 #1 MSN321 JA01XJ https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D6rx6wOXkAAAZJa?format=jpg https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D6rx6vNWkAA5n28?format=jpg https://twitter.com/CAlloing/status/1128980990620327937?s=20 And The Wind Plane Rises. That Airbus A350 text in the back make a beautif...

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by zakuivcustom
Fri May 17, 2019 6:12 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Seattle is Vancouver's greatest threat to Trans-Pacific airport hub supremacy
Replies: 82
Views: 10533

Re: Seattle is Vancouver's greatest threat to Trans-Pacific airport hub supremacy

International flights out of Canadian airports are very competitive and a lot of US and Latin American traffic will connect via YYZ and YVR as they don't need transit visas or are required to clear Canadian customs. Only Chilean and Mexican in Latin America. And even then, they still need eTA (US C...

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by zakuivcustom
Fri May 17, 2019 6:02 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Updated: US DOT awards Haneda slots
Replies: 709
Views: 116425

Re: Updated: US DOT awards Haneda slots

And I don't understand why people keep thinking everyone will just drive 2+ hours to catch a flight. The fact is, most people don't. Exactly right. The same argument can be said for San Diego to LAX...most people don't. They fly out of the airport that's closest to them. The only time I've driven u...

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by zakuivcustom
Fri May 17, 2019 3:52 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Updated: US DOT awards Haneda slots
Replies: 709
Views: 116425

Re: Updated: US DOT awards Haneda slots

It’s not a short nor is it a convenient drive at all. That argument is tired. And I don't understand why people keep thinking everyone will just drive 2+ hours to catch a flight. The fact is, most people don't. I'm also curious why you keep saying access to ICN is highly restricted. KE (and now DL ...

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by zakuivcustom
Fri May 17, 2019 3:33 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Leeham News: Mitsubishi appears to be well positioned to take over the RJ market
Replies: 150
Views: 18584

Re: Leeham News: Mitsubishi appears to be well positioned to take over the RJ market

The rest of the world doesn't have them - and the rest of the world has very few regional jets. WIthout artificially low pilot costs, RJ are niche - which is why you see more turboprops instead (better economics for short thin routes) And in the rest of the world, "regional jets" fly true...

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by zakuivcustom
Fri May 17, 2019 3:09 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: JAL announces first A350 route
Replies: 119
Views: 30471

Re: JAL announces first A350 route

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1411835&start=550#p21361051

And the Wind Plane Rises!
-->

Sort of bumping this...

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1411835&start=550#p21361051

And the Wind Plane Rises!

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by zakuivcustom
Fri May 17, 2019 1:43 pm
Forum: Travel, Polls & Preferences
Topic: Busiest aviation markets without nonstop service
Replies: 20
Views: 2816

Re: Busiest aviation markets without nonstop service

SFO-HGH (I am shocked by this absence. Would SEA-HGH/SJC-HGH be profitable too?) UA tried the route, and left the market in less than a year. It's just not as high yield as you think. Plus Hangzhou is close enough to Shanghai where there are some bargain bin fares (including premium cabin) to/from ...

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by zakuivcustom
Fri May 17, 2019 4:50 am
Forum: Travel, Polls & Preferences
Topic: Do you ever get nervous about flying solo to a communist country?
Replies: 36
Views: 1753

Re: Do you ever get nervous about flying solo to a communist country?

Yes, your fears are irrational. Anyone visiting a foreign nation will find out that all nations enforce their laws, and aren't in the business of "framing" people for no reason. Didn't that Otto person try to steal a poster or something? So when you travel, don't do anything stupid, and y...

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by zakuivcustom
Fri May 17, 2019 4:43 am
Forum: Non-Aviation
Topic: White House Creates Tool For People To Report Alleged Social Media Bias
Replies: 21
Views: 1051

Re: White House Creates Tool For People To Report Alleged Social Media Bias

LOL...seriously, inputting personal information into that database? As if the big gov't is not going to abused that? Those right wing extremists have their own "social media" sites. And it always ends badly. We know this. Let them have their hate sites and their hate speech. We know it wil...

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by zakuivcustom
Fri May 17, 2019 4:36 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Why is there only 3 daily flights HND-ICN!?
Replies: 5
Views: 2338

Re: Why is there only 3 daily flights HND-ICN!?

Well... 1. The OZ flight is ok for connection (Mainly to Europe), but the KE flight? Not so much. It's a red-eye utilizing the availability of late-night/early morning HND international slot (and the fact that they can't fly into GMP at 4:35am). Same can be said for MM (Peach), who actually only fly...

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by zakuivcustom
Fri May 17, 2019 4:19 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Updated: US DOT awards Haneda slots
Replies: 709
Views: 116425

Re: Updated: US DOT awards Haneda slots

I'm taking that comment as the DOT should have declined PDX with the hope that NH or JL will pick it up and add more utility. I can see the point to it. With DL there with a dead-end at HND, it provides much less utility to PDX O&D traffic. But maybe neither JL nor NH wants to fly to PDX? While...

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by zakuivcustom
Thu May 16, 2019 3:18 am
Forum: Travel, Polls & Preferences
Topic: What is your favorite airplane as a passenger?
Replies: 41
Views: 1262

Re: What is your favorite airplane as a passenger?

As a passenger in economy, for narrowbodies, I love flying on the MD-80/90/717 series for the 2-3 seating. Of course opportunities to fly on those are quickly diminishing. There's always C-Series (Ok...A220) for 2-3 seating, and those will be around for awhile. Well, there's always ARJ21 in China a...

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by zakuivcustom
Wed May 15, 2019 9:22 pm
Forum: Non-Aviation
Topic: Renting a car and driving in the UK with a US drivers license
Replies: 38
Views: 1591

Re: Renting a car and driving in the UK with a US drivers license

In New England and the north east in general we call them rotaries. In other parts of the country they are often called traffic circles. Although I have seen them in most states they seem to be the most common in Massachusetts by a long shot, they're all over the place here. I might be in the minor...

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by zakuivcustom
Wed May 15, 2019 4:17 pm
Forum: Travel, Polls & Preferences
Topic: Do you ever get nervous about flying solo to a communist country?
Replies: 36
Views: 1753

Re: Do you ever get nervous about flying solo to a communist country?

Besides, I feel way safer in places like Vietnam or China than in the US. In the US, you never know when some crazy person is going to whip out a semiautomatic rifle and start butchering people for no reason, at the mall, on the street, at the movie theater, at schools. THAT is really scary. Hence ...

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by zakuivcustom
Wed May 15, 2019 4:13 pm
Forum: Travel, Polls & Preferences
Topic: What is your favorite airplane as a passenger?
Replies: 41
Views: 1262

Re: What is your favorite airplane as a passenger?

For me it's E-Jets series - 2-2 seatings (aka no middle seat), wide cabin (Especially compared to CRJs), and good ride comfort.

Otherwise, JL's 788/789, just b/c they still use 2-4-2 seatings.

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by zakuivcustom
Wed May 15, 2019 4:06 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Three Class Narrowbodies
Replies: 81
Views: 8908

Re: Three Class Narrowbodies

The OP already stated that he (or she) is looking for narrowbodies with F, J, and Y. Who cares if Y+/MCE/Comfort+/whatever is a separate "class"/cabin or not? Take that to another thread... I've long had a concept for a three-class narrowbody airliner with J at 2-2, W at 2-3, and Y at 3-3....

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by zakuivcustom
Wed May 15, 2019 1:59 pm
Forum: Non-Aviation
Topic: US Infrastructure Issues - how to get them fixed given the budget issues?
Replies: 52
Views: 2492

Re: US Infrastructure Issues - how to get them fixed given the budget issues?

The transportation funding is an easy fix. Raise the fuel tax a bit to cover the hybrid loss and tax electric vehicles by the mile, if you’re driving a big SUV, then you can afford the gas. Trust me, I’m one of them. If you can’t, then you shouldn’t be driving one. Well... 1. Gas in US is actually ...

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by zakuivcustom
Wed May 15, 2019 1:35 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Hong Kong airline leadership storm
Replies: 23
Views: 4834

Re: Hong Kong airline leadership storm

Umm... https://www.forbes.com/sites/willhorton1/2019/05/14/cathay-pacific-delays-payment-to-hna-for-hk-express-as-it-probes-747-purchase/amp/ Just goes to tell you how complicated (and shady) HNA dealings are. The mind twisting business transaction.....i need to read twice to understand what actual...

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by zakuivcustom
Wed May 15, 2019 11:21 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Hong Kong airline leadership storm
Replies: 23
Views: 4834

Re: Hong Kong airline leadership storm

https://www.forbes.com/sites/willhorton ... chase/amp/

Just goes to tell you how complicated (and shady) HNA dealings are.
-->

Umm...

https://www.forbes.com/sites/willhorton ... chase/amp/

Just goes to tell you how complicated (and shady) HNA dealings are.

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by zakuivcustom
Wed May 15, 2019 4:11 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Air Peace Plans to Launch Johannesburg, London, Houston, Guangzhou and Mumbai; Most Likely from Lagos.
Replies: 56
Views: 7426

Re: Air Peace Plans to Launch Johannesburg, London, Houston, Guangzhou and Mumbai; Most Likely from Lagos.

Anyone know where these 777s are coming from? They already have 2 777 - both ex-EK birds. Seems like they're getting another B773A, a ex-SQ bird. https://www.planespotters.net/airline/Air-Peace I don't think the 773A can make LOS-CAN non-stop, though, although they still got that 772ER. But maybe t...

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by zakuivcustom
Wed May 15, 2019 2:22 am
Forum: Non-Aviation
Topic: US Infrastructure Issues - how to get them fixed given the budget issues?
Replies: 52
Views: 2492

Re: US Infrastructure Issues - how to get them fixed given the budget issues?

Some good thoughts in this discussion so far - I would add that since the government railways in Japan were privatized in the 1980s and 90s, companies had to contend with massive maintenance costs given heavy usage of both passenger and freight lines. They couldn’t increase user fees much, so they ...

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by zakuivcustom
Tue May 14, 2019 9:21 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Seattle is Vancouver's greatest threat to Trans-Pacific airport hub supremacy
Replies: 82
Views: 10533

Re: Seattle is Vancouver's greatest threat to Trans-Pacific airport hub supremacy

How much of YVR's hub status is due to just its location but not its demographics anyway? For example, all those services to China will be there regardless of SEA growth just b/c of the local O&D. I mean, you think Vancouverites are going to connect at, let say, SEA when it's a huge pain to conn...

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by zakuivcustom
Tue May 14, 2019 9:08 pm
Forum: Non-Aviation
Topic: US Infrastructure Issues - how to get them fixed given the budget issues?
Replies: 52
Views: 2492

Re: US Infrastructure Issues - how to get them fixed given the budget issues?

I know this won't be popular with politicians and has almost zero chance of happening, but cut the military budget and re-allocate those funds to infrastructure. It's well known that the US defense budget is higher than the next several highest spending countries combined. Yet somehow it's a sacred...

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by zakuivcustom
Tue May 14, 2019 7:05 pm
Forum: Non-Aviation
Topic: China threats Boeing to punish for Trump policy
Replies: 123
Views: 12100

Re: China threats Boeing to punish for Trump policy

It means the USA won’t be able to run large budget and trade deficits anymore as the rest of the world won’t hold USD indefinitely. What would happen would be similar to what happened to Canada in the early 1990s. Canada was living well beyond its means and came very close to a failed bond salei. 1...

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by zakuivcustom
Tue May 14, 2019 3:43 pm
Forum: Travel, Polls & Preferences
Topic: Do you ever get nervous about flying solo to a communist country?
Replies: 36
Views: 1753

Re: Do you ever get nervous about flying solo to a communist country?

Other than North Korea, there are almost no real communist countries left in this world. All have some kind of market economy. Perhaps it would be better if you told us exactly which country you're planning to visit. Canada :D Denmark if you believe FOX. Wrong one...it's Sweden (BTW..."Sociali...

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by zakuivcustom
Tue May 14, 2019 2:58 pm
Forum: Non-Aviation
Topic: Stocks sheds all 2018 gains, 600 points today
Replies: 206
Views: 21049

Re: Stocks sheds all 2018 gains, 600 points today

602 points down today, and the Republicans are trying to blame the Democrats. What a freaking pathetic attempt to always blame someone other than them. Precisely. The NYSE & commodities/futures market analysts ALL KNOW that the US government is highly dependent upon the Chinese banks (which are...

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by zakuivcustom
Tue May 14, 2019 12:01 pm
Forum: Non-Aviation
Topic: China threats Boeing to punish for Trump policy
Replies: 123
Views: 12100

Re: China threats Boeing to punish for Trump policy

People forget that it was the US that actively encouraged China's manufacturing base. In the late 1980s it was Bush 1 (former US Ambassador to China) who kicked it off, followed by Clinton who ramped it up. Manufacturing was outsourced to China. Services were outsourced to India (call a 1-800 custo...

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by zakuivcustom
Tue May 14, 2019 4:15 am
Forum: Non-Aviation
Topic: China threats Boeing to punish for Trump policy
Replies: 123
Views: 12100

Re: China threats Boeing to punish for Trump policy

Moving beyond the racism and dick jerking in this thread to a more fundamental question: if the US-China trade relationship was so bad for so long (ie so “against” US interests), why have corporate elites actively reproduced this relationship? I have a slight suspicion that trade balances aren’t ev...

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by zakuivcustom
Tue May 14, 2019 3:50 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Three Class Narrowbodies
Replies: 81
Views: 8908

Re: Three Class Narrowbodies

If I remember correctly, some 737-800 of the now defunct Transaero has F,J, and Y. 2588818 You're correct: https://thedesignair.net/2013/10/30/transaero-launch-spectacular-737-cabin/ "Imperial Class"... :scratchchin: :scratchchin: As for the question - perhaps the OP should clarify it a l...

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by zakuivcustom
Tue May 14, 2019 1:11 am
Forum: Non-Aviation
Topic: Stocks sheds all 2018 gains, 600 points today
Replies: 206
Views: 21049

Re: Stocks sheds all 2018 gains, 600 points today

Oh well, only down ~2.4%, DJIA will be up 10k if only the Feds reduce the rate back down to 0% anyway. :duck: Let's reduce the rate to 0% and watch how inflation becomes hyperinflation...all for a gain in the stock market. And then: 1. "Nobody knew the stock market could be so complicated"...

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by zakuivcustom
Mon May 13, 2019 8:11 pm
Forum: Non-Aviation
Topic: Stocks sheds all 2018 gains, 600 points today
Replies: 206
Views: 21049

Re: Stocks sheds all 2018 gains, 600 points today

And DJIA ends up down 617.38 (2.38%), NASDAQ down 269.92 (3.41%...OUCH), and S&P 500 down 68.08 (2.37%).

Oh well, only down ~2.4%, DJIA will be up 10k if only the Feds reduce the rate back down to 0% anyway. :duck:

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