Search found 208 matches

by Noray
Sat Sep 18, 2021 1:01 pm
Forum: Military Aviation & Space Flight
Topic: Airbus A400M News, Production and Delivery Thread - 2021
Replies: 84
Views: 16854

Re: Airbus A400M News, Production and Delivery Thread - 2021

Currently, the Swedish Air Force is hosting a campaign together with the German Air Force to certify the Gripen C/D for in flight refuelling from the A400M. A German Luftwaffe A400M and Swedish Gripens are involved. https://twitter.com/Saab/status/1439154676914696198 https://twitter.com/Team_Luftwaf...

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by Noray
Tue Sep 07, 2021 1:30 pm
Forum: Military Aviation & Space Flight
Topic: Airbus A400M News, Production and Delivery Thread - 2021
Replies: 84
Views: 16854

Re: Airbus A400M News, Production and Delivery Thread - 2021

Yes, Airbus suggested that a couple of years back for Charter operators flying for the UN and other relief operations. Best regards Thomas Interesting question, and I'm not sure about the correct answer. The civilian A400M type certificate issued by EASA contains the following points on page 13: 19...

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by Noray
Mon Sep 06, 2021 8:00 pm
Forum: Military Aviation & Space Flight
Topic: Airbus A400M News, Production and Delivery Thread - 2021
Replies: 84
Views: 16854

Re: Airbus A400M News, Production and Delivery Thread - 2021

Some more facts about the Afghanistan evacuations: From August 17th to August 26th, German A400Ms evacuated 5347 people in 35 flights out of Kabul, an average of 152,8 per flight. ( German ) Spanish A400Ms evacuated 2206 people in 17 flights between Kabul and Dubai. ( Spanish ) The record number of...

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by Noray
Mon Sep 06, 2021 7:29 pm
Forum: Military Aviation & Space Flight
Topic: Airbus A400M News, Production and Delivery Thread - 2021
Replies: 84
Views: 16854

Re: Airbus A400M News, Production and Delivery Thread - 2021

Just out of curiosity asking that would it be possible (at least in theory) for commercial cargo airline to operate A400M? To my knowledge A400M has civil certification so does it mean that any airline could buy that aircraft? It may not make sense financially, but just thinking that there could be...

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by Noray
Wed Sep 01, 2021 7:01 pm
Forum: Military Aviation & Space Flight
Topic: Airbus A400M News, Production and Delivery Thread - 2021
Replies: 84
Views: 16854

Re: Airbus A400M News, Production and Delivery Thread - 2021

tommy1808 wrote:
and the A400M with a Tanker system couldn't fuel their combat aircraft.

Not sure about that point. Kazakhstan has SU-30s. A400Ms have refuelled Malaysia's Su-30s: Atlas Refuels Flankers

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by Noray
Wed Sep 01, 2021 4:58 pm
Forum: Military Aviation & Space Flight
Topic: Airbus A400M News, Production and Delivery Thread - 2021
Replies: 84
Views: 16854

Re: Airbus A400M News, Production and Delivery Thread - 2021

Kazkhstan orders 2 A400M https://airbus-h.assetsadobe2.com/is/image/content/dam/products-and-solutions/military-aircraft/a400m/A400M-KAZ-2.jpg?wid=991&fit=fit,1&qlt=85,0 https://www.airbus.com/newsroom/press-releases/en/2021/09/the-republic-of-kazakhstan-orders-two-airbus-a400ms.html Upon c...

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by Noray
Wed Sep 01, 2021 1:11 pm
Forum: Military Aviation & Space Flight
Topic: Airbus A400M News, Production and Delivery Thread - 2021
Replies: 84
Views: 16854

Re: Airbus A400M News, Production and Delivery Thread - 2021

Some more facts about the Afghanistan evacuations: From August 17th to August 26th, German A400Ms evacuated 5347 people in 35 flights out of Kabul, an average of 152,8 per flight. ( German ) Spanish A400Ms evacuated 2206 people in 17 flights between Kabul and Dubai. ( Spanish ) The record number of ...

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by Noray
Wed Sep 01, 2021 12:22 pm
Forum: Military Aviation & Space Flight
Topic: Airbus A400M News, Production and Delivery Thread - 2021
Replies: 84
Views: 16854

Re: Airbus A400M News, Production and Delivery Thread - 2021

So Kazkhstan will be the ninth operator of the A400M. This is the first signing of a new contract since Malaysia joined the program in 2005. The total number of aircraft ordered is now 176.

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by Noray
Mon Aug 23, 2021 1:12 pm
Forum: Military Aviation & Space Flight
Topic: Airbus A400M News, Production and Delivery Thread - 2021
Replies: 84
Views: 16854

Re: Airbus A400M News, Production and Delivery Thread - 2021

A French A400M dispensing flares during takeoff from Kabul. https://twitter.com/air_intel/status/1429162130926940160 I've read various explanations for this, the one I found the most compelling is that it's a bug: the open landging gear doors extend beyond the aircraft's sponsons, and as they close...

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by Noray
Sun Aug 22, 2021 9:55 pm
Forum: Military Aviation & Space Flight
Topic: Airbus A400M News, Production and Delivery Thread - 2021
Replies: 84
Views: 16854

Re: Airbus A400M News, Production and Delivery Thread - 2021

Many A400Ms from Belgium/Luxemburg, France, Germany, Spain, Turkey and the UK are currently involved in the Kabul evacuation. A short video of seven German A400Ms in Tashkent, Uzbekistan, Germany's hub for the operation. https://twitter.com/Bw_Einsatz/status/1429130161463697414 Two of these were bri...

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by Noray
Sun Aug 22, 2021 9:51 pm
Forum: Military Aviation & Space Flight
Topic: C-17 departs Kabul with 800 passengers!
Replies: 100
Views: 10685

Re: C-17 departs Kabul with 800 passengers!

Maybe they should've waited and send their new C-130 instead. Are you trying to say that the US troops that controled the access to that first German A400M arriving in Kabul would have let more people get through if it had been an American-made type? No, he's saying that a smaller C130 could've hau...

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by Noray
Sun Aug 22, 2021 8:50 pm
Forum: Military Aviation & Space Flight
Topic: C-17 departs Kabul with 800 passengers!
Replies: 100
Views: 10685

Re: C-17 departs Kabul with 800 passengers!

Care to share your intelligence? I mean, with words like those you must have a pretty solid picture of the situation at the airport when the German plane was there. It's confirmed that the German A400 only rescued 7 people. Maybe they should've waited and send their new C-130 instead. Are you tryin...

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by Noray
Sat Aug 21, 2021 3:21 pm
Forum: Military Aviation & Space Flight
Topic: C-17 gear retraction side doors
Replies: 17
Views: 3096

Re: C-17 gear retraction side doors

And if the engineers had known that the gear would be this large, they almost certainly would've chosen a larger sponson. This assumes that the gear requires more space than planned initially. Do we know? Maybe the sponsons were larger in an earlier design stage and these doors were invented as a m...

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by Noray
Tue Aug 17, 2021 10:41 pm
Forum: Military Aviation & Space Flight
Topic: Russian Military Crashes Discussion Thread - Part 2
Replies: 92
Views: 13936

Re: Be-200 crashes in Turkey

After the drop, why did they fly towards that high mountain ridge at all, instead of away from it? Bad flight planning? Navigation error? Communication error? Overconfidence? Or were they, after technical problems, hoping to crash land on the mountain slope like that Transall in Corsica in 1995 ? An...

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by Noray
Tue Aug 17, 2021 10:27 pm
Forum: Military Aviation & Space Flight
Topic: C-17 departs Kabul with 800 passengers!
Replies: 100
Views: 10685

Re: C-17 departs Kabul with 800 passengers!

That landing gear video is something horrific…I wonder how long the body stayed there. This was a no-win situation The people mobbing the airplane are likely thinking that if they don’t get on, they’ll die Having seen the video with cheering people running next to the C-17, I wonder if all of them ...

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by Noray
Mon Jul 26, 2021 9:24 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Unique aerial drone footage of AN-225 takeoff
Replies: 29
Views: 5771

Re: Unique aerial drone footage of AN-225 takeoff

N14AZ wrote:
What a pity I cannot understand anything …

So one question: where did they fly to? I cannot identify this airport… :scratchchin:

There are English subtitles available. It's Leipzig/Halle Airport (LEJ/EDDP), recognizable by the motorway that runs between the runways.

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by Noray
Fri Jun 18, 2021 12:00 pm
Forum: Military Aviation & Space Flight
Topic: Airbus A400M News, Production and Delivery Thread - 2021
Replies: 84
Views: 16854

Re: Airbus A400M News, Production and Delivery Thread - 2021

AKKA Technologies is now offering a quick-change solution for the A400M to be used as fire fighting aircraft with a capability of 20 tons. https://www.journal-aviation.com/en/news/46135-the-airbus-a400m-soon-to-be-used-as-a-firefighting-aircraft I think that´s a capability which is quite interestin...

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by Noray
Thu Jun 03, 2021 3:41 pm
Forum: Military Aviation & Space Flight
Topic: Airbus A400M News, Production and Delivery Thread - 2021
Replies: 84
Views: 16854

Re: Airbus A400M News, Production and Delivery Thread - 2021

Today, the French Armée de l'Air et de l'Espace has declared the initial tactical capability of the A400M. They can land with vehicles more than 24 metric tons heavy on a laterite runway less than 1500 metres long, day or night, or airdrop up to 25 tons in a single pass, all of that with self protec...

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by Noray
Tue Jun 01, 2021 2:42 pm
Forum: Military Aviation & Space Flight
Topic: Embraer KC-390 News and Discussion Thread
Replies: 241
Views: 69011

Re: Embraer KC-390 News and Discussion Thread

Obviously the Brazilian Air Force found that the (refueling) capacitiy of the KC-390 isn't sufficient for some of their tasks and so they plan the additional acquisition of a larger platform. That should eat up some of the financial resources that were designated for the KC-390. Fuel capacity accord...

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by Noray
Fri May 28, 2021 11:06 pm
Forum: Military Aviation & Space Flight
Topic: Airbus A400M News, Production and Delivery Thread - 2021
Replies: 84
Views: 16854

100th delivery milestone

On May 24, Airbus delivered the tenth A400M to Spain. It was also the 100th operational A400M delivered to a customer. In late May, the global operational fleet topped a combined 100,000 flying hours, with 40,000h having been added since late 2019. This strong growth is due to a rise in activity dur...

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by Noray
Fri May 28, 2021 9:15 pm
Forum: Military Aviation & Space Flight
Topic: Embraer KC-390 News and Discussion Thread
Replies: 241
Views: 69011

Re: Embraer KC-390 News and Discussion Thread

Due to budgetary constraints after the Corona crisis, the Brazilian Air Force will try to renegotiate their KC-390 contract. The aim is to limit deliveries to two aircraft per year and to reduce the overall number of KC-390s to be purchased, which is currently 28. The Air Force says that, owing to v...

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by Noray
Wed May 12, 2021 4:41 pm
Forum: Military Aviation & Space Flight
Topic: Updated: Germany signs order for Five Boeing P-8A Poseidon Aircraft
Replies: 242
Views: 29163

Re: Germany Future MPA Aircraft News and Discussion Thread

But they only need to fly it for 15-17 years. Germany could figure out a maintenance cooperation with France and push for more air frames. Choosing the P-8 is a lot more costly, jeopardizes a key development cooperation project, and actually increases the risk of a capability gap (because the parli...

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by Noray
Wed May 12, 2021 4:29 pm
Forum: Military Aviation & Space Flight
Topic: Airbus A400M News, Production and Delivery Thread - 2021
Replies: 84
Views: 16854

Re: Airbus A400M News, Production and Delivery Thread - 2021

Airbus video Did they forget to slap on some sunscreen on the plane? What's up with the peeling paint (00:26 in the video)? I guess that this test frame originally was supposed to be retired after a few years, but as the first tests of helicopter refuelling failed, it had to be kept airworthy for m...

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by Noray
Wed May 12, 2021 2:44 pm
Forum: Military Aviation & Space Flight
Topic: Airbus A400M News, Production and Delivery Thread - 2021
Replies: 84
Views: 16854

Re: Airbus A400M News, Production and Delivery Thread - 2021

Some updates: 1. The tests for aerial refuelling of helicopters mentioned in #37 have been widely reported a few days later. Airbus video Airbus press release: Airbus A400M conducts major helicopter refuelling certification campaign Flightglobal: A400M nearing tanker clearance for French Caracal ope...

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by Noray
Wed May 12, 2021 1:40 pm
Forum: Military Aviation & Space Flight
Topic: Updated: Germany signs order for Five Boeing P-8A Poseidon Aircraft
Replies: 242
Views: 29163

Re: Germany Future MPA Aircraft News and Discussion Thread

When BMVg Parliamentary State Secretary Thomas Silberhorn was asked about the ATL2 he just responded that they didn't even consider the French offer because the state of the aircraft that the French government was offering wasn't clear. Lacking information is a poor rationale because it hints at a ...

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by Noray
Wed May 05, 2021 8:08 pm
Forum: Military Aviation & Space Flight
Topic: Updated: Germany signs order for Five Boeing P-8A Poseidon Aircraft
Replies: 242
Views: 29163

Re: Germany Future MPA Aircraft News and Discussion Thread

The P-8 will bring brownie points with the US administration so it will be bought, even though a European solution would be in the interest of the taxpayer and would fill the needs much better. First of all it's a decision in favour of the German Navy, who, after many years with decrepit airframes,...

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by Noray
Mon Apr 26, 2021 1:16 am
Forum: Military Aviation & Space Flight
Topic: A400M ZM406
Replies: 4
Views: 1797

Re: A400M ZM406

On ADS-B exchange you can see that it started the same day from Gibraltar towards North Africa, where there's little to no ADS-B coverage at all. It becomes visible again when it's close enough to ADS-B receivers in Sardinia. FlightAware ADS-B Coverage Map

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by Noray
Sat Apr 17, 2021 1:57 pm
Forum: Military Aviation & Space Flight
Topic: Germany retired the Bell UH-1D
Replies: 5
Views: 1440

Re: Germany retired the Bell UH-1D

Rarely if required it was used in other missions. Where I live, the Hueys from Niederstetten were the only rescue helicopters equipped with a winch. Whenever I heard the flap-flap-flap above me, I knew a climber or paraglider was in trouble in the nearby mountains. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r...

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by Noray
Sat Apr 17, 2021 3:10 am
Forum: Military Aviation & Space Flight
Topic: Airbus A400M News, Production and Delivery Thread - 2021
Replies: 84
Views: 16854

Re: Airbus A400M News, Production and Delivery Thread - 2021

With its tank capacity of ca. 60,000 litres, the A400M can also serve as a Forward Area Refueling Point for helicopters. This capability was successfully tested by the Luftwaffe in Wunstorf. Gravity refueling was tested with an H145M and pressure refueling with an NH90 and a CH53G. A400M besteht Tes...

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by Noray
Sat Apr 17, 2021 2:26 am
Forum: Military Aviation & Space Flight
Topic: UK Defence Command Paper: RAF to Axe C-130 Fleet by 2023
Replies: 40
Views: 3961

Re: UK Defence Command Paper: RAF to Axe C-130 Fleet by 2023

The tail numbers and corresponding airframe hours accrued for the UK's C-130. Ministry of Defence written question – answered on 15th April 2021 . Tail Number | Airframe Hours (Rounded to the nearest 10) ____________|___________________________________________ ZH865 | 13,860 ZH866 | 10,070 ZH867 | 1...

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by Noray
Mon Apr 12, 2021 6:40 pm
Forum: Military Aviation & Space Flight
Topic: US drone flying over the Ukraine
Replies: 5
Views: 911

Re: US drone flying over the Ukraine

hello everyone ,sorry i'm not a big aircraft geek like many here but i was just watching on flightradar a US drone is flying at 54000feet over the Ukraine not anywhere over Ukraine but the part occupied by the Russains !! is this something that happens a lot over the area ?isn't it going to cause m...

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by Noray
Sun Apr 11, 2021 10:50 pm
Forum: Military Aviation & Space Flight
Topic: Airbus A400M News, Production and Delivery Thread - 2021
Replies: 84
Views: 16854

Re: Airbus A400M News, Production and Delivery Thread - 2021

Meanwhile, the tests to certificate aerial refuelling of helicopters continue. A recent image from the DGA shows two H225Ms making contact with the A400M simultaneously. The same event in southern France was observed by a spotter from the ground: Essais ravitaillements A400M-Caracals – Cooper-JR – Y...

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by Noray
Sun Apr 11, 2021 10:27 pm
Forum: Military Aviation & Space Flight
Topic: Airbus A400M News, Production and Delivery Thread - 2021
Replies: 84
Views: 16854

Re: Airbus A400M News, Production and Delivery Thread - 2021

A report about the certification of simultaneous drop of parachutists written by an engineer responsible for the A400M at the French DGA armament office: A400M ET PARACHUTISTES – UNE SAGA À SURSAUTS (French; Google Translate English ) Abstract: The A400M being a modern aircraft, there were certain s...

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by Noray
Sat Apr 03, 2021 2:30 am
Forum: Military Aviation & Space Flight
Topic: Embraer KC-390 News and Discussion Thread
Replies: 241
Views: 69011

Re: Embraer KC-390 News and Discussion Thread

I don't think that copying the manufacturer's glowing promotional texts adds much to this forum. You should also name your source.

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by Noray
Fri Apr 02, 2021 12:53 pm
Forum: Military Aviation & Space Flight
Topic: C-17 Usage
Replies: 67
Views: 9220

Re: C-17 Usage

The inside of the fuselage would still be circular for pressurisation. The side chines on the exterior would be on the outer skin. Doesn't the outer skin normally form the pressurisation vessel of large aircraft? This concept requires an additional layer then. I could see all tactical transports de...

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by Noray
Thu Apr 01, 2021 8:45 pm
Forum: Military Aviation & Space Flight
Topic: Embraer KC-390 News and Discussion Thread
Replies: 241
Views: 69011

Re: Embraer KC-390 News and Discussion Thread

The great advantage of the KC-390 is that a nation that has 4 units can use them every day, as if they were commercial aircraft. It can transport more than 20 tons effortlessly, launch loads, launch parachutists through 2 doors simultaneously, as well as refuel from helicopters to supersonic aircra...

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by Noray
Thu Apr 01, 2021 8:08 pm
Forum: Military Aviation & Space Flight
Topic: Embraer KC-390 News and Discussion Thread
Replies: 241
Views: 69011

Re: Embraer KC-390 News and Discussion Thread

kitplane01 wrote:
Wow. I wonder if this is the largest airplane to ever buddy-refuel, or even to be refueled using probe-and-droge.

No. The A400M is larger.

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by Noray
Thu Apr 01, 2021 8:03 pm
Forum: Military Aviation & Space Flight
Topic: Airbus A400M News, Production and Delivery Thread - 2021
Replies: 84
Views: 16854

Re: Airbus A400M News, Production and Delivery Thread - 2021

A report of the Bundeswehr about their recent successful operational test of simultaneous automatic parachute jumps from the A400M: German ( Google translate ) Also includes a video (in German, Google translation of video transcript ). Some details: Tests were made with conventional T-10 parachutes,...

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by Noray
Mon Mar 29, 2021 6:37 am
Forum: Military Aviation & Space Flight
Topic: Airbus A400M News, Production and Delivery Thread - 2021
Replies: 84
Views: 16854

Re: Airbus A400M News, Production and Delivery Thread - 2021

Well A400 sales have been brisk , a huge backlog from countries not in the original group, lots and lots of top off orders. There were 174 orders by 2011 and there are 174 orders on the books today. Massive sales, just massive. See my previous post: You keep digging up old stuff and you totally fai...

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by Noray
Sun Mar 28, 2021 8:54 pm
Forum: Military Aviation & Space Flight
Topic: Airbus A400M News, Production and Delivery Thread - 2021
Replies: 84
Views: 16854

Re: Airbus A400M News, Production and Delivery Thread - 2021

There’s no evidence/cite that the C-130J’s need new wing boxes. The A400M costs (largely due to the TP400) per hour are significantly higher than the C-130. This is why even the Germans/French bought the J’s. The Germans are desperate to unload some of their committed A400’s so I would expect the R...

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by Noray
Sat Mar 27, 2021 1:38 am
Forum: Military Aviation & Space Flight
Topic: Airbus A400M News, Production and Delivery Thread - 2021
Replies: 84
Views: 16854

Re: Airbus A400M News, Production and Delivery Thread - 2021

There’s no evidence/cite that the C-130J’s need new wing boxes. The A400M costs (largely due to the TP400) per hour are significantly higher than the C-130. This is why even the Germans/French bought the J’s. The Germans are desperate to unload some of their committed A400’s so I would expect the R...

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by Noray
Fri Mar 26, 2021 10:48 am
Forum: Military Aviation & Space Flight
Topic: Airbus A400M News, Production and Delivery Thread - 2021
Replies: 84
Views: 16854

Re: Airbus A400M News, Production and Delivery Thread - 2021

as the transport fleet improves availability we will retire the C130-J Hercules in 2023, after 24 years of service. Twenty-two A400Ms, alongside the C17s, will provide a more capable and flexible transport fleet. Does anyone else feel completely shocked by this decision regarding the C-130s? Unless...

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by Noray
Wed Mar 24, 2021 11:44 pm
Forum: Military Aviation & Space Flight
Topic: Airbus A400M News, Production and Delivery Thread - 2021
Replies: 84
Views: 16854

Re: Airbus A400M News, Production and Delivery Thread - 2021

Within a few years, the A400M will be the smallest fixed wing transport aircraft of the RAF. The UK will retire its complete C130J fleet by 2023, rather than 2035 as previously planned. This is at least what the Defence Command Paper of the UK's Integrated Review says that was released on March 22. ...

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by Noray
Sun Feb 14, 2021 10:43 am
Forum: Military Aviation & Space Flight
Topic: Airbus A400M News, Production and Delivery Thread - 2021
Replies: 84
Views: 16854

Re: Airbus A400M News, Production and Delivery Thread - 2021

I guess that adds to my confusion on the subject, the aircraft was designed and built for a mission it wasn't ready to do upon entrance into service. There is really no reason to add the side doors and spoiler to an aircraft unless you intend to drop paratroops from that door. Unless I am missing s...

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by Noray
Sat Feb 13, 2021 6:46 am
Forum: Military Aviation & Space Flight
Topic: Airbus A400M News, Production and Delivery Thread - 2021
Replies: 84
Views: 16854

Re: Airbus A400M News, Production and Delivery Thread - 2021

Grizzly410 wrote:
Given the quietness of the Flight Test fleet these days I'd think it's job done. We'll see.

Adsbexchange shows lots of EC-400 flights from Toulouse in the recent months, often low level in the Pyrenees or Massif Central.

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by Noray
Thu Feb 11, 2021 4:06 am
Forum: Military Aviation & Space Flight
Topic: Airbus A400M News, Production and Delivery Thread - 2021
Replies: 84
Views: 16854

Re: Airbus A400M News, Production and Delivery Thread - 2021

https://www.defensenews.com/global/europe/2020/06/03/airbus-a400m-cleared-to-drop-more-paratroopers-through-its-side-doors/ This has probably already been posted, but I cannot believe I missed this. I had erroneously assumed that paratroop deployment was part of the initial development of the aircr...

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by Noray
Mon Jan 11, 2021 11:47 pm
Forum: Military Aviation & Space Flight
Topic: Germany Tornado Replacement News and Discussion Thread
Replies: 1688
Views: 252493

Re: Germany Considers Tornado Replacement

Some commentary from the German Air Force Chief on the Tornado replacement. Seems like the GAF is pretty keen on going for the SH/Growler combo although that will have to survive some strong Airbus lobbying at the political level. He simply echoes the selection decision that Germany’s defence minis...

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by Noray
Sat Jan 09, 2021 8:44 pm
Forum: Military Aviation & Space Flight
Topic: How do you move an AFV in 2021?
Replies: 40
Views: 2366

Re: How do you move an AFV in 2021?

I think you're right the pricing for a new customer is difficult. Germany says they cost 175M Euros each, so I didn't pull a number from the air. See Wikipedia. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airbus_A400M_Atlas What export customer paid $150M? I'm curious. (Also, the difference is only 25% or 33%.) ...

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by Noray
Sat Jan 09, 2021 7:56 pm
Forum: Military Aviation & Space Flight
Topic: How do you move an AFV in 2021?
Replies: 40
Views: 2366

Re: How do you move an AFV in 2021?

Both the C-2 and A400M cost about $200M each. Discussions based on fictitious prices aren't really useful. I don't think that you or me know how much a new costumer would pay for any of these aircraft. It would depend on negotiations about the extent to which a new customer would have to contribute...

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by Noray
Sat Jan 09, 2021 1:13 pm
Forum: Military Aviation & Space Flight
Topic: How do you move an AFV in 2021?
Replies: 40
Views: 2366

Re: How do you move an AFV in 2021?

Both the C-2 and A400M cost about $200M each. Discussions based on fictitious prices aren't really useful. I don't think that you or me know how much a new costumer would pay for any of these aircraft. It would depend on negotiations about the extent to which a new customer would have to contribute...

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