Search found 1463 matches

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by PSAatSAN4Ever
Thu May 26, 2022 4:23 pm
Forum: Travel, Polls & Preferences
Topic: Help Me: I don’t get why doors are so important in business class
Replies: 6
Views: 588

Re: Help Me: I don’t get why doors are so important in business class

There are a LOT of broken ankles in the emergency room right now from all the jumping on the bandwagon to include "doors". If you are old enough to remember the early 1990's, the "clear liquid" craze swept the United States. Everything new had to be transparent: "Crystal&quo...

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by PSAatSAN4Ever
Thu May 26, 2022 4:18 pm
Forum: Travel, Polls & Preferences
Topic: Where was Condor flying its DC-8-73CF during the mid-80s?
Replies: 3
Views: 1055

Re: Where was Condor flying its DC-8-73CF during the mid-80s?

Boy, does that ever look like a -62/-72 model? My memories of the stretched DC-8's had that thing longer than a football field! Perspective is everything... Given that Condor was primarily charter in the 1980's (including scheduled charter), I'm going to guess holiday destinations such as Majorca an...

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by PSAatSAN4Ever
Tue May 24, 2022 8:49 pm
Forum: Travel, Polls & Preferences
Topic: Questions about transiting in FRA
Replies: 5
Views: 406

Re: Questions about transiting in FRA

When you arrive at Frankfurt airport, you can go through customs, get your passport stamped, and then head out to the train station. "Flughafen Frankfurt Fernbahnhof" is the name of the station at the airport (Airport Frankfurt Long-Distance Train Station), whereas downtown will be the &qu...

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by PSAatSAN4Ever
Tue May 24, 2022 5:26 pm
Forum: Travel, Polls & Preferences
Topic: International To Domestic At JFK, Past & Present: Your Stories
Replies: 6
Views: 436

International To Domestic At JFK, Past & Present: Your Stories

Long story short: does anyone still transfer from Europe at JFK? Ahh, the gold ol' days of American travel to Europe…your travel agent probably booked you on a TWA "GetAway Vacation" package or a similar Pan Am inclusive trip, which included hotels and local transportation, and then depend...

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by PSAatSAN4Ever
Sun May 22, 2022 12:03 am
Forum: Travel, Polls & Preferences
Topic: Your 2022 Booked/Flown Flights
Replies: 71
Views: 10014

Re: Your 2022 Booked/Flown Flights

An update to my previous plan: Had to change it as British Airways suffered through their early May schedule meltdown and the airline was completely unwilling to work with us in any way. The new itinerary is: SAN-SEA Delta 737-800 SEA-LHR Virgin Atlantic 787-900 LHR-JFK Virgin Atlantic A350-1000 JFK...

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by PSAatSAN4Ever
Fri May 20, 2022 8:54 pm
Forum: Travel, Polls & Preferences
Topic: if the tupolev 144 was exported, would it be sold only to the warsaw pact airlines or not?
Replies: 3
Views: 639

Re: if the tupolev 144 was exported, would it be sold only to the warsaw pact airlines or not?

Quality of build and design issues aside, what kills many transportation builders' hopes of exporting is the availability of spare parts. How are you going to take care of all those stranded passengers if your plane goes tech on you? The Tu-144 was a vanity project that was rushed through production...

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by PSAatSAN4Ever
Fri May 20, 2022 8:41 pm
Forum: Travel, Polls & Preferences
Topic: Your Most Flown Airline?
Replies: 43
Views: 2798

Re: Your Most Flown Airline?

Until September of last year, it was American Airlines. From Bakersfield or LAX or San Diego to Fort Smith, Arkansas via DFW is still the most heavily traveled single route, with DFW-FSM the most in my records. United took over that title on my last SAN-IAH-LIT trip, surpassing it by one. The irony,...

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by PSAatSAN4Ever
Thu May 19, 2022 8:29 pm
Forum: Travel, Polls & Preferences
Topic: Most Memorable Approaches as a Passenger?
Replies: 37
Views: 1672

Re: Most Memorable Approaches as a Passenger?

Probably one not mentioned often, but it is quite a spectacular approach: Bakersfield, CA (BFL), if you are coming in from the southeast (from PHX or DFW, and usually DEN), you overfly the high desert, including flying over The Great Mojave Boneyard, and then across the Sierra Nevadas / Tehachapi Mo...

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by PSAatSAN4Ever
Tue May 17, 2022 5:22 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Biden Admin. to ease Cuba travel restrictions
Replies: 30
Views: 5904

Re: Biden Admin. to ease Cuba travel restrictions

Once again, there is no restriction on Americans VISITING Cuba. What Americans are not allowed to do is SPEND MONEY in Cuba. THAT is how the "embargo" works. Americans have, for decades, gotten around this by traveling to a third country, such as The Bahamas or Mexico, purchased everything...

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by PSAatSAN4Ever
Mon May 16, 2022 7:14 pm
Forum: Travel, Polls & Preferences
Topic: Transcontinental Economy Free Meal Service Gone?
Replies: 51
Views: 4875

Re: Transcontinental Economy Free Meal Service Gone?

United's last meal service for coach was, to my knowledge, in 2005. I flew United IAD-SAN and was expecting peanuts, but I got a hot meal. "Flights over XXX hours still get a meal". It was nice, but I knew it wouldn't last...and my next transcon flight on UA was buy on board, which I think...

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by PSAatSAN4Ever
Mon May 16, 2022 7:02 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Any possibility of WN adding bus service to airports not currently served by WN?
Replies: 15
Views: 2260

Re: Any possibility of WN adding bus service to airports not currently served by WN?

Interlining is not done for cost/complexity reason. You seem to be confusing interlining with code-sharing: the two are not the same. You can have an interline agreement with another carrier and never sell or place your passengers on the other airline’s flight if you so desire. I'm not sure what yo...

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by PSAatSAN4Ever
Mon May 16, 2022 6:45 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Any possibility of WN adding bus service to airports not currently served by WN?
Replies: 15
Views: 2260

Re: Any possibility of WN adding bus service to airports not currently served by WN?

I believe it is in Southwest's contracts with its workers that "all transportation purchased by Southwest must be completed solely by Southwest planes and crews", or something to that effect. It's been discussed many times as to why Southwest doesn't interline with anyone at all, period. ...

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by PSAatSAN4Ever
Mon May 16, 2022 3:32 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Any possibility of WN adding bus service to airports not currently served by WN?
Replies: 15
Views: 2260

Re: Any possibility of WN adding bus service to airports not currently served by WN?

I believe it is in Southwest's contracts with its workers that "all transportation purchased by Southwest must be completed solely by Southwest planes and crews", or something to that effect. It's been discussed many times as to why Southwest doesn't interline with anyone at all, period. E...

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by PSAatSAN4Ever
Thu May 12, 2022 4:39 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: The consequences of crew and staff shortage in aviation - 2022 thread
Replies: 56
Views: 6246

Re: The consequences of crew and staff shortage in aviation - 2022 thread

I've chimed in on this issue on a couple of threads, so if you've read this before, skip it. Original ticket purchased in December. LAX-LHR on BA (A380), returning LHR-SAN (777-300). BA canceled the A380, and I called to change the ticket to SAN-LHR. No problem. Lovely people, easy to reach, all tak...

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by PSAatSAN4Ever
Wed May 11, 2022 9:04 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: BA in big management shake up.
Replies: 28
Views: 7743

Re: BA in big management shake up.

Quick story about my experience with British Airways Customer Service: Purchased LAX-LHR / LHR-SAN round-trip tickets. BA canceled the A380 service (reason for LAX instead of SAN). I called British Airways and IMMEDIATELY spoke with a customer service agent who, without any issues whatsoever, chang...

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by PSAatSAN4Ever
Wed May 11, 2022 8:59 pm
Forum: Travel, Polls & Preferences
Topic: Changes in leadership at Boeing
Replies: 9
Views: 1310

Re: Changes in leadership at Boeing

We were literally having these discussions over 20 years ago. There were major problems in 1999. Nothing ever changes. Just bringing in more bad leadership. Agreed. There are now two types of companies on this planet: those run by engineers and managers, and those run by bean counters and "on-...

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by PSAatSAN4Ever
Wed May 11, 2022 7:22 pm
Forum: Travel, Polls & Preferences
Topic: Changes in leadership at Boeing
Replies: 9
Views: 1310

Re: Changes in leadership at Boeing

It has been damage control for too long. With so many delayed programs and deliveries they have too much on their table to do the real future proofing and investments. At the same time Airbus expands. A new strategy would be needed in any case. And MUCH more of a vision for my taste. So where is th...

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by PSAatSAN4Ever
Wed May 11, 2022 5:23 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: BA in big management shake up.
Replies: 28
Views: 7743

Re: BA in big management shake up.

Ummm, NO... I don't understand why BA would refuse to offer any connecting flights on my desired day of travel, even when I came prepared with options. One of the Ferengi Rules of Acquisition HAS to be "never place any obstacles between you and your customer's money". British Airways foll...

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by PSAatSAN4Ever
Wed May 11, 2022 4:13 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: BA in big management shake up.
Replies: 28
Views: 7743

Re: BA in big management shake up.

Quick story about my experience with British Airways Customer Service: Purchased LAX-LHR / LHR-SAN round-trip tickets. BA canceled the A380 service (reason for LAX instead of SAN). I called British Airways and IMMEDIATELY spoke with a customer service agent who, without any issues whatsoever, change...

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by PSAatSAN4Ever
Tue May 10, 2022 10:14 pm
Forum: Travel, Polls & Preferences
Topic: Airports with longest and shortest takeoff queues
Replies: 20
Views: 1779

Re: Airports with longest and shortest takeoff queues

Newark is in the unenviable position of (a) too close to JFK, (b) too close to LGA, (c) too close to too much restricted east coast airspace, and (d) having two runways FAR too close together for parallel usage in inclement weather. And yet, Continental and United both over-scheduled the airport at ...

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by PSAatSAN4Ever
Fri May 06, 2022 5:56 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2022
Replies: 334
Views: 48840

Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2022

Thank you for the thoughtful responses. The intransigence of the airline, coupled with the insane lack of any kind of customer communication, really frightens me. Anytime I have ever had an issue with a flight schedule change, I offer an alternative, and it gets taken care of. Not here. Three days t...

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by PSAatSAN4Ever
Thu May 05, 2022 10:05 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2022
Replies: 334
Views: 48840

Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2022

I FINALLY got through to British Airways. A lovely woman in India (I had trouble understanding her at times, but she was quite helpful!) answered, and we discussed the situation. I wanted a re-routing on the day I had originally chosen. She said, "the computer says no". No connections ava...

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by PSAatSAN4Ever
Thu May 05, 2022 7:23 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2022
Replies: 334
Views: 48840

Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2022

I FINALLY got through to British Airways. A lovely woman in India (I had trouble understanding her at times, but she was quite helpful!) answered, and we discussed the situation. I wanted a re-routing on the day I had originally chosen. She said, "the computer says no". No connections avai...

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by PSAatSAN4Ever
Thu May 05, 2022 3:54 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2022
Replies: 334
Views: 48840

Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2022

So I just got an e-mail today from British Airways: "your flight to London on Monday, September 19, 2022, has been canceled. We have already booked on the next flight the next day". Has anyone heard if BA is reducing frequency out of SAN? Why else would a flight be canceled so far in adva...

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by PSAatSAN4Ever
Wed May 04, 2022 8:35 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2022
Replies: 334
Views: 48840

Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2022

So I just got an e-mail today from British Airways: "your flight to London on Monday, September 19, 2022, has been canceled. We have already booked on the next flight the next day". Has anyone heard if BA is reducing frequency out of SAN? Why else would a flight be canceled so far in advan...

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by PSAatSAN4Ever
Tue May 03, 2022 5:06 pm
Forum: Travel, Polls & Preferences
Topic: Unserved/Underserved US Routes Thread
Replies: 24
Views: 1975

Re: Unserved/Underserved US Routes Thread

SAN-DCA was served until AA switched the route authority to LAX. That ridiculous perimeter rule needs to go away. SAN-BFL would be a godsend, again - the eleven months ExpressJet flew this route saved me time, money, and aggravation! But BFL, being the premium traffic black hole of non-existence tha...

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by PSAatSAN4Ever
Tue May 03, 2022 5:01 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2022
Replies: 334
Views: 48840

Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2022

I would add that a Latin American carrier is needed to truly round out the offerings from SAN, and we know that the airport folks would definitely agree with that. I could also see a carrier to China, or perhaps at least one other airline to some hub in Asia. (Once the covid recovery opens things u...

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by PSAatSAN4Ever
Tue May 03, 2022 2:21 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2022
Replies: 334
Views: 48840

Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2022

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UKHmF5V8IQ0

Just happened to be at the right place at the right time.
-->

So here's another video from me of our British Airways A350-1000 arriving, as seen from Balboa Park:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UKHmF5V8IQ0

Just happened to be at the right place at the right time.

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by PSAatSAN4Ever
Mon May 02, 2022 4:58 pm
Forum: Travel, Polls & Preferences
Topic: Passengers Only: Best Cockpit Visit Or Aircraft Tour Story!
Replies: 14
Views: 980

Re: Passengers Only: Best Cockpit Visit Or Aircraft Tour Story!

LOVE these stories - exactly what I was looking for. Thank you!!

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by PSAatSAN4Ever
Mon May 02, 2022 12:28 am
Forum: Travel, Polls & Preferences
Topic: Airline & Airport Crew Only: Best Customer Interaction Stories
Replies: 0
Views: 427

Airline & Airport Crew Only: Best Customer Interaction Stories

As promised, all employees of all types, from ground crew to front line agents to flight attendants, pilots, mechanics, handlers, etc - all are welcome! Please share your best customer interaction stories - anything that has stayed with you about anything and anyone. Every story is welcome, but I ca...

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by PSAatSAN4Ever
Mon May 02, 2022 12:24 am
Forum: Travel, Polls & Preferences
Topic: Passengers Only: Best Cockpit Visit Or Aircraft Tour Story!
Replies: 14
Views: 980

Passengers Only: Best Cockpit Visit Or Aircraft Tour Story!

All airline & airport personnel, I will solicit your stories in a separate poll; however, this one is for passengers only. What is your best cockpit visit and/or aircraft tour story? My best was in late May of 2004. Friends of mine who were living in Chicago had announced they would be moving ba...

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by PSAatSAN4Ever
Sun May 01, 2022 10:33 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2022
Replies: 334
Views: 48840

Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2022

I like your analysis, PSAatSAN4Ever! I think the comparison to West Berlin is fairly apt. Two factors that I would add would be (1) the fear of homeowners in the coastal regions that their property values would diminish if Miramar was converted to civilian use and aircraft were flying overhead with...

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by PSAatSAN4Ever
Sun May 01, 2022 6:00 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: American 727 tribute
Replies: 57
Views: 8454

Re: American 727 tribute

Again, another book I have in storage called "The 727 Story", there is an incident written about a Braniff 727-100 that suffered a nearly catastrophic part failure with a near-complete hydraulic loss; however, the plane made a safe emergency landing without injury. Anyone remember this in...

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by PSAatSAN4Ever
Sun May 01, 2022 4:00 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2022
Replies: 334
Views: 48840

Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2022

I remember several years ago the city was talking about building a completely new airport inland. Is there any discussion regarding this today? When I look at what Denver did with the old Stapleton, it is an amazing transformation that will be worth $3.4B billion in redevelopment. It would really b...

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by PSAatSAN4Ever
Sun May 01, 2022 3:07 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: American 727 tribute
Replies: 57
Views: 8454

Re: American 727 tribute

In my personal airplane log, I have only five 727's: two United 727-100's (BFL-LAX and SBA-BFL), two American 727-200's (LAX-DFW and ORD-LGA), and one Mexicana 727-200 (MLM-LAX). The United and American flights were my first, second, eighth, and twelfth trips ever, occurring between December, 1974 a...

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by PSAatSAN4Ever
Sun May 01, 2022 2:52 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Do they exceed MTOW/TBO in less developed countries?
Replies: 21
Views: 4937

Re: How much do they exceed MTOW/TBO in “third world”

I am reminded of a story I read somewhere in one of my aviation books. The story was the investigation of the crash of Avianca 052 near JFK in January, 1990. In the aftermath, the anecdote is told that one investigator went down to Colombia and inquired at Avianca about weighing procedures for lugga...

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by PSAatSAN4Ever
Sat Apr 30, 2022 3:27 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2022
Replies: 334
Views: 48840

Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2022

Oh, my! My house in North Park just got buzzed by a VERY low-flying airplane, which is HIGHLY unusual... I live in North Park, smack-dab between the eastbound flight track over Mission Valley (to my north) and westbound final descent track for Lindbergh Field (to my south). Lots of helicopters fly o...

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by PSAatSAN4Ever
Fri Apr 29, 2022 8:02 pm
Forum: Trip Reports
Topic: A340s of Switzerland: Edelweiss & Swiss A340-300 J
Replies: 5
Views: 3569

Re: A340s of Switzerland: Edelweiss & Swiss A340-300 J

I flew Edelweiss Air in 2017, on JB-JMG, Zurich to San Diego. I absolutely LOVED the premium economy seating in the front! We're hoping for its return here one day...

thank you for a great report!

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by PSAatSAN4Ever
Fri Apr 29, 2022 5:46 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2022
Replies: 334
Views: 48840

Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2022

For example, Japan Air Lines received this incentive package when it first started the 787 to NRT. JL has AS's FF base in San Diego in addition to its FF base in Japan to support JL SAN-NRT nonstop service. There are also connecting opportunities available through NRT on JL to other Asian destinati...

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by PSAatSAN4Ever
Fri Apr 29, 2022 4:39 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2022
Replies: 334
Views: 48840

Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2022

Let's pretend SAN got its second runway. It won't, but this just for the sake of argument. What additional longhaul routes could SAN accommodate with this extra capacity? Before COVID, SAN had three longhaul routes, all daily: BA SAN-LHR: 4 class 772, 77W, or SHJ 744 depending on the season. LH SAN...

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by PSAatSAN4Ever
Wed Apr 27, 2022 9:10 pm
Forum: Travel, Polls & Preferences
Topic: Am I a "victim" of my alliance?
Replies: 8
Views: 1972

Re: Am I a "victim" of my alliance?

Alliances are great if you travel frequently and use the rewards, as are an airline's credit cards. Otherwise, no. There are advantages to all this when you live in a hub or focus city, and have the multitude of options; however, if you don't, you're essentially trapped with them. The number of peo...

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by PSAatSAN4Ever
Wed Apr 27, 2022 9:07 pm
Forum: Travel, Polls & Preferences
Topic: Airports You've Transited Through In Cities You've Never Visited
Replies: 91
Views: 5097

Re: Airports You've Transited Through In Cities You've Never Visited

In the United States: Europe: FRA (LH LAX-FRA-STG) Did you really go to an Alaskan island from Los Angeles via Frankfurt? :lol: Good grief, I did it again...I think my fingers are getting too fat for the keyboard anymore. Like Homer Simpson, gaining extra weight so he can work from home on disabili...

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by PSAatSAN4Ever
Wed Apr 27, 2022 6:24 pm
Forum: Travel, Polls & Preferences
Topic: Am I a "victim" of my alliance?
Replies: 8
Views: 1972

Re: Am I a "victim" of my alliance?

Alliances are great if you travel frequently and use the rewards, as are an airline's credit cards. Otherwise, no. There are advantages to all this when you live in a hub or focus city, and have the multitude of options; however, if you don't, you're essentially trapped with them. The number of peop...

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by PSAatSAN4Ever
Wed Apr 27, 2022 6:20 pm
Forum: Travel, Polls & Preferences
Topic: Airports You've Transited Through In Cities You've Never Visited
Replies: 91
Views: 5097

Re: Airports You've Transited Through In Cities You've Never Visited

In the United States: PDX (AS, SEA-PDX-SAN) SLC (DL, SAN-SLC-MSP roundtrip) SMF (Amtrak + WN) ABQ (Amtrak + United Express) MCI (Original Frontier FSM-Old Fayetteville-Joplin-MCI to TWA MCI-LAX in 1974) STL (TWA LAX-STL-TPA roundtrip) DFW (too many times to mention, but y'all know what AAirline I wa...

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by PSAatSAN4Ever
Fri Apr 22, 2022 12:00 am
Forum: Travel, Polls & Preferences
Topic: Large Cities with the most leakage from local airport
Replies: 36
Views: 2547

Re: Large Cities with the most leakage from local airport

You're welcome. However, there have been American customs agents on Mexican soil at Tijuana and Mexican customs agents on US soil at Laredo, Texas. Check out the main picture in this article (in Spanish, don't have to read) from 2016: https://www.chicagotribune.com/hoy/ct-hoy-8536292-agentes-de-eeu...

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by PSAatSAN4Ever
Thu Apr 21, 2022 6:39 pm
Forum: Travel, Polls & Preferences
Topic: Large Cities with the most leakage from local airport
Replies: 36
Views: 2547

Re: Large Cities with the most leakage from local airport

In the San Diego Aviation thread, there is much discussion about Tijuana airport. It is, in reality, Southern California / the Southwest portion of the United States' southernmost Latin America airport. And while the Tijuana metropolitan area certainly produces SOME traffic on its own, this airport ...

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by PSAatSAN4Ever
Wed Apr 20, 2022 7:28 pm
Forum: Travel, Polls & Preferences
Topic: Your shortest flight on a widebody and longest flight on a narrowbody
Replies: 153
Views: 15606

Re: Your shortest flight on a widebody and longest flight on a narrowbody

These surprised me!

ORD-DEN, United 777-200

SAN-BOS or BOS-SAN, JetBlue A320/A321

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by PSAatSAN4Ever
Wed Apr 20, 2022 7:20 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2022
Replies: 334
Views: 48840

Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2022

i just booked on the LH flight to MUC for a business trip in June. excited for my first A350 ride and first TATL non stop out of SAN. still never made it on the BA flight. anyone been on the LH flight yet? Not yet, but in 2023. This year, however, my husband and I are going to London on BA 272/273....

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by PSAatSAN4Ever
Wed Apr 20, 2022 5:36 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Hawaiian Airlines interisland cancellations these past few days (April 14~)
Replies: 127
Views: 18303

Re: Hawaiian Airlines interisland cancellations these past few days (April 14~)

Yes but in Hawaii WN does not have to short hop after short hop. If you do LAX-OGG-HNL-OGG you can land at OGG & in 40 min hop over to HNL. But that short hop does not allow the engine to cool down from the climb out due to temps & very high humidity. So you have to sit for at least an hour...

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by PSAatSAN4Ever
Tue Apr 19, 2022 8:33 pm
Forum: Travel, Polls & Preferences
Topic: Airlines You've Flown Exactly Once
Replies: 82
Views: 5215

Re: Airlines You've Flown Exactly Once

One time and one time only flights (no connections): Mesa Airlines (America West Express) MSP-PHX in July, 2004. I know, that one surprised me, but there it is! airBerlin SZG-TXL in July, 2017. Edelweiss Air, ZRH-SAN. I would LOVE to take that one off my list and fly them again, but we're waiting fo...

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