Re: Why isn't MSP a busier airport (in normal times)?

I always wonder what would things look like if MSP had relocated to Dakota County. Why do you think status quo would be any different? DTW built the Midfield Terminal, but the hub's physical capacity (raw seat count) reached its peak in 2001, shortly before the new terminal opened. In 2018, Denver ...

Re: Could SLC be a focus city or hub for a second airline?

SLC is not going to become a UA focus city, nor are there any credible rumors suggesting such. SLC has the second-lowest O/D traffic of any trunk hub - there simply isn't enough traffic to warrant a focus city, let alone another hub. Just out of curiosity which hub has the lowest O/D. According to ...

Re: Delta to cut focus city network down to RDU & AUS

We've discussed this before, but DL's definition of a focus city is far different that a.net's. CVG will probably remain a focus city per a.net definition, even if loses a spoke or two.

Re: Could SLC be a focus city or hub for a second airline?

Salt Lake City is a growing market with a strong economy, fast growing population, centrally located out west, and has the 22nd largest CSA population in the country. With that could SLC potentially become a hub or focus city for another airline? I look at B6 and AS as airlines that could build SLC...

Re: Delta Has a Problem: The Boeing 767

The article is merely an opinion piece. FACT: DL purchased ~50 A339 and additional A359. DL was to take delivery of these aircraft by 2025; undoubtedly, they would've replaced a healthy chuck of the 763 fleet. FACT: DL has been upgauging legacy 763 long-haul flights (to B764, A330 and B777) at ATL &...

Re: DTW Detroit Aviation Thread - 2021

FL ran Apple Vacation flights to CUN and that 737-700 turned to RSW. A 737-700 came in from ATL in the morning, turned out to MCO and returned to ATL in the evening. It was usually routed ATL-DTW-MCO-XXX and the reciprocal. Apple Vacations has long operated seasonal CUN service, subcontracting serv...

Re: CLE readies new terminal proposal

Concourse D was designed with the intention that half the terminal would handle turoprops, and the other half 737, although the turboprop gates could be converted to handle 737. The decision for the terminal to handle entirely regional jets was done late. But let's be rational: today, the price tag ...

Re: DTW Detroit Aviation Thread - 2021

Southwest adds Detroit to Ft. Myers nonstops on Saturdays starting in May. FL ran ATL, MCO, TPA, SRQ, RSW, FLL, & CUN at one point from DTW. I'd say this is a step in the right direction for Southwest towards re-introducing regularly scheduled service to Florida. Remember, WN re-added MCO a few...

Re: New service announcement for Grand Rapids tomorrow.

Wow, these COVID routes are getting crazier and crazier. Cares 3, anybody? Even during the hot economy, DL struggled to maintain daily DTW-PDX service, despite housing a large hub that pulls traffic from neighboring communities that are closer to GRR. Heck, NK dumped the route within days of its ina...

Re: DTW Detroit Aviation Thread - 2021

It was designed for an era of massive growth over the next 2-3 decades. It was to be NW's Worldgateway. The forecast demand projections were thinking about big expansion plans for more and more flights to Asia. DTW was designed to have up to 10 744s on international gates at the same time. It was d...

Re: AA Warns of 13,000 Layoffs April 1, Will Union Emps Early-Outs, Union Says FA’s Taking Biggest Hit

Funny, that’s not what was said after Lehman...how is the pandemic shock any different than a financial meltdown? Both do not permit the market to operate normally. Companies are being obliterated through no fault of their own. Yes, and where's their bailout? Businesses that qualified for PPP (forg...

Re: DTW Detroit Aviation Thread - 2021

In all seriousness, I do think DTW is slightly overbuilt for the amount of flights it serves (even in normal times). Why did they build McNamara so big? Of course it's overbuilt -- it was designed in the mid-1990s, to meet projected air needs of the future (both local and as a geographically strate...

Re: Question About DL's MEM Hub Closure

Read the NY Times article on dining changes which occurred after 9/11. While they eliminated meals on shorter flights prior to 9/11, it wasn't until after that they went to West Coast only policy. My memory is correct -- NW largely eliminated domestic meal service well before 9/11. If you search th...

Re: Question About DL's MEM Hub Closure

While you are correct, your timeline is off. The bulk of these changes (limiting meal service to west coast flights from hubs and removing/disabling IFE on domestic routes except for Hawaii) actually occurred after 9/11. Most of the other airlines dropped coach domestic meal service after 9/11 as w...

Re: Question About DL's MEM Hub Closure

One of the things I truly loved about Northwest was that they treated their Airlink customers much better than their counterparts elsewhere, constructing jetway equipped purpose built facilities at DTW (Concourse C), MSP (Concourses A & B), and MEM (Mostly A as I recall, but some CRJ gates were...

Re: Question About DL's MEM Hub Closure

What was the reasoning behind demolishing part of the A terminal? For some reason, I don't even remember that newish, but now gone section of terminal A as pictured above. I left Delta in 1990 and MEM in 1992, so that new part of A happened after I left. I do remember when the gates in the A termin...

Re: Guangzhou (CAN / ZGGG) overtakes ATL, busiest airport worldwide

Congratulations CAN!!!

Re: DTW Detroit Aviation Thread - 2021

Unrelated, but do really high school kids go on unsupervised spring break these days? (Pre Covid?) That is obviously not a target demographic of any airline, but I think the unsupervised high school spring break trips are generally lore of yesteryear. High school kids, and their parents, are far di...

Re: DTW Detroit Aviation Thread - 2021

But don't you think if the had a reasonably priced flight they would fly. I mean if you could get a roundtrip for about $100 bucks verse the probably $300 plus round trip because lack of options. I know I would and NK fares would be competitive with Greyhound and less time consuming. No, I don’t. T...

Re: DTW Detroit Aviation Thread - 2021

I can't say I have ever heard of anyone from Metro Detroit going on Spring Break to Florida Panhandle destinations. They don't have the major resort attractions and theme parks like MCO. They don't have the natural draw an interia and "straight-shot" down I-75 like TPA, RSW, and the gener...

Re: DTW Detroit Aviation Thread - 2021

Several major universities in the vicinity and the airport can't even support a seasonal flight to VPS or ECP, sad. It's hardly sad; both airports have very limited service. In Metro Detroit, most people headed to Panama City during spring break are high school students on a limited budget. Most tr...

Re: Question About DL's MEM Hub Closure

NW studied a move into BNA during the second half of the 1990s. Ultimately, they passed on such move (no doubt WN's rapid growth played a role) and instead reached a deal to expand MEM. Of course, MEM has remained stagnant over the past two decades, whereas BNA has flourished. Commercial lease rates...

Re: Question About DL's MEM Hub Closure

Several key points that I believe haven't been mentioned with regard to CVG and DTW. CVG was only ever built in the first place because Delta couldn't cram any more flights into ATL at the times of day that they wanted them. The reason CVG was declining pre-merger was due to the 5th runway opening ...

Re: Question About DL's MEM Hub Closure

*complains about how packed ATL is, while failing to see that it is packed because people obviously aren't as bothered by it as you are* With Pre/Clear and a SkyClub membership I have never really had an issue with crowds. I stay away from the B club, because it can be a shit show but generally E/F...

Re: Question About DL's MEM Hub Closure

You are not telling the full story. CVG had a sharp increase in traffic in 2005/2006 after DFW closed. I understand wht CVG closed. But I don't understand the hatred for it by some of you. We're aviation fans. Nearly all of us would agree that the more choices -- airlines, fleet types, hubs, etc. -...

Re: Question About DL's MEM Hub Closure

Another (significant) point I'll toss out: post-bankruptcy (and pre-merger), DL was explicit that it planned to transform & grow ATL + NYC ... but overall systemwide capacity would remain stagnant. Given that, where do you think the capacity to grow ATL & NYC was coming from? CVG was a decli...

Re: Question About DL's MEM Hub Closure

CVG had been Delta's hub for years. However Northwest had a lot of tie up with the funds to build up Detroits terminals. Delta had to drop 1 of the 2 and dropping Detroit would have required payback on the loans due to early termination of agreements on Employee numbers and other office space in th...

Re: Question About DL's MEM Hub Closure

MEM failed as hub because its local market lacked both volume and dollar amount. The advert of the regional jet, which allowed airlines to fly from smaller, southeastern destinations to distant larger hubs, was the so-called 'nail in the coffin.' - NW looked at replacing MEM with ATL in the early 1...

Re: Question About DL's MEM Hub Closure

LAX772LR wrote:

WidebodyPTV wrote:

MEM, CVG, STL, CLT, PIT, etc. were small hubs that had largely become obsoleted as the industry consolidated + economics changed.

Not really sure how you're throwing CLT into that one.... I'm guessing you meant RDU?

Re: Question About DL's MEM Hub Closure

MEM failed as hub because its local market lacked both volume and dollar amount. The advert of the regional jet, which allowed airlines to fly from smaller, southeastern destinations to distant larger hubs, was the so-called 'nail in the coffin.' - NW looked at replacing MEM with ATL in the early 19...

Re: DTW Detroit Aviation Thread - 2021

I find it amazing that American is only operating a single daily flight to its PHX hub when apparently demand is (or was) there for Delta to operate 5 daily flights, 3 of which are on the 767-300! All airlines' schedules are based heavily upon speculation. DL pulled a lot of domestic winter widebod...

Re: Delta Fleet Thread - 2021

They could speed up the (deferred) 339 and 359 deliveries, too. I don't fear that intercon demand is going to flip on like a light switch such that DL finds itself 20 widebodies short. They need to match capacity to demand on the right routes such that they're generating free cash flow. Aircraft - ...

Re: Delta Fleet Thread - 2021

Yep..... 2020 was trash 2021 long-haul isn't going to be materially better than 2020 for most of the year. Peak summer TATL isn't happen 2022 will likely be when long-haul, particularly VFR peak summer TATL and TPAC business starts to show some semblance of recovery 2023 may be the first peak summe...

Re: Delta Fleet Thread - 2021

777luver wrote:

5-10 years to recover long haul flying according to who?

Re: Delta Fleet Thread - 2021

I posted this back in December on another thread, but is still holds true at least for the time being. At least until we perhaps hear more about fleet plans and a revised delivery schedule, potentially in the Q4 earnings release later this month. This information was from the 2020 Q3 10-K, for data...

Re: Delta Fleet Thread - 2021

You math doesn't work, because before all of those on-order narrowbodies are delivered they will retire the 117 CR2s as of 12/31/19 and more 757s and A320s. A.net needs to accept reality that post-COVID, air travel isn't going to return to the trajectory it was on in 2019. Ed Bastian recently said ...

Re: DTW Detroit Aviation Thread - 2021

[ Another thing that will support DTW is that I think fewer people will leave Michigan after they retire. My parents chose to stay in Birmingham after they retired, because the health care in the Detroit area is world class, the taxes are relatively low, and there is a much broader range of housing...

Re: DTW (Detroit aviation) thread 2021

With the North, I think there were two planning assumptions that weren't fully taken into consideration: 1) Aircraft size; like you said, it was under the assumption of everyone running a lot more RJs and small narrowbodies (under 150 seaters) which was the prevalant aircraft types that were being ...

Re: DTW Detroit Aviation Thread - 2021

According to Forbes (link at the end), Detroit is one of the worst situated places to recover after the pandemic along with NYC, Philly, and many interior California cities. I do not expect DTW to gain any additional or meaningful service because of this. According to the 2020 census predictions, t...

Re: DTW (Detroit aviation) thread 2021

The main problem with DTW is overcrowding within the gate holds, which is an inherent inefficiently of the linear concourse design. The Midfield Terminal was designed with NW’s then fleet in mind. As DL began upgauging flights, 160 seat MD-90 would frequently park at gates designed for the 100 seat ...

Re: Burger Wars!

Farmer Boys offers a pretty darn good burger. Grass fed beef, locally sourced ingredients too. I really like Five Guys, but my local restaurants are way overpriced. The standard two patty cheeseburger is $9.50, and the single patty is $8.50. Split a fry with a friend, and add a soft drink and you’re...

Re: DL 767-400 Into RSW

Even last week, you could snatch a ride on the 764 from DTW to MCO or RSW for $49 - with great availability throughout the holiday season. ATL-MCO was going for $19. DTW-CUN on the 333 for $79. Heck, DTW-CUN up front was only $212 (!!!). Let’s stop pretending that scheduled capacity reflects actual ...

Re: What cities are next for Southwest?

SBN. Twice daily to MDW on 73G.

Re: HA announces OGG-LGB, ONT-HNL, AUS-HNL, MCO-HNL

Ishrion wrote:

Wow, that’s amazing. I’m excited to see how AUS performs. They’ve been pushing for HNL service with incentives.

Re: Rumor: DL looking to trade 717s for 737 Max

I’m in the camp that feels Delta is not necessarily in the driver seat. Especially as Boeing wins other orders and recovers. That’s less leverage. No one wants to talk about it, but much of the equity built on the savvy low capex and opportunistic fleet planning during the early ‘10s is out the win...

Re: Rumor: DL looking to trade 717s for 737 Max

Bastain has acknowledged that he believes there will be a permanent reduction of 10%-20% in business travel revenues — that’s freaking huge (and industry pundits think it’s too low). Some people need to accept that DL will not match its 2019 size for some. There’s simply no point in discussing 1:1 r...

Re: Rumor: DL looking to trade 717s for 737 Max

Again zero need for the Max at DL 2026+. I’d love to see the math the rest of you are thinking that would suggest otherwise. The CEO made the comments. I understand frustration when someone out of the blue on a website makes claims but sorry, the Chief Indian is making these statements. You have no...

Re: Delta hints at the possibility of purchasing Boeing’s 737 MAX: FT

One resent rumor was that Delta was looking at replacing the 737-800 with 737-8Max. Just a somebody heard something kind of thing. Makes sense in my mind though, and after all isn't that what AA is kind of doing? DL is focused on rebuilding its network for the post-COVID era; Ed Bastian recently sa...

Re: US Airline Booking Trends during COVID-19

Funny you mention this, I had actually been in LA for the past few weeks before leaving yesterday. The LA area was more busy than any other city I've been to since COVID began, all the major LA spots/malls felt nearly as crowded as normal, with the exception of Hollywood Blvd. Crowded as normal? Ne...

Re: Rumor: DL looking to trade 717s for 737 Max

This thread is now 7-months-old. DL is not trading the 717 for 737 -- they're returning the 717 as leases mature, and the handful of owned aircraft will be parked in a few years. The ONLY reason this rumor had any credibility was because the 717 leases were rapidly maturing; DL simply couldn't get r...