Search found 315 matches

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • 7
by Toenga
Wed Dec 01, 2021 12:06 am
Forum: Non-Aviation
Topic: COVID-19 Non Aviation Thread - Q4 2021
Replies: 159
Views: 9926

Re: COVID-19 Non Aviation Thread - Q4 2021

Yes, Australia bought 400k doses from Poland a little while back. But the need in developing countries remains higher than available supply. And NZ bought some top up supply of Pfizer from Spain, and I think Denmark, for September delivery to supplement the delivery schedule direct from Pfizer, tha...

Jump to post
by Toenga
Tue Nov 30, 2021 7:54 am
Forum: Non-Aviation
Topic: COVID-19 Non Aviation Thread - Q4 2021
Replies: 159
Views: 9926

Re: COVID-19 Non Aviation Thread - Q4 2021

In reply to both lightsabre and Francoflier. These are very very broad and personal observations so forgive me. Pure US style capitalism has huge strengths in spotting emerging technologies and then commercialising them. And then ushering them expeditiously through regulatory processes, and before g...

Jump to post
by Toenga
Mon Nov 29, 2021 8:20 pm
Forum: Non-Aviation
Topic: COVID-19 Non Aviation Thread - Q4 2021
Replies: 159
Views: 9926

Re: COVID-19 Non Aviation Thread - Q4 2021

I was really trying to illustrate how, what seems like some small tasks are in reality incredibly demanding. Depending on recently obtained extraordinarily detailed knowledge obtained from years of research, and then analysis by the recently obtained immense computing power. This in contrast with wh...

Jump to post
by Toenga
Mon Nov 29, 2021 7:29 am
Forum: Non-Aviation
Topic: COVID-19 Non Aviation Thread - Q4 2021
Replies: 159
Views: 9926

Re: COVID-19 Non Aviation Thread - Q4 2021

I've always wondered why can we now detect exoplanets in faraway GALAXIES, catch minute traces of DNA in 100,000 year old fossilized bone, have machines that detect elementary particles which exist for merely just fractions of a plank second (and are a fraction the size of an atom), but we still ca...

Jump to post
by Toenga
Sun Nov 28, 2021 12:46 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: New Zealand Aviation Thread - November 2021
Replies: 289
Views: 30658

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - November 2021

Totally agree that Auckland International Airport Ltd and the other Internatilnal airport operators should lead and facilitate such a service. They could encourage by offering seriously discounted terminal space rentals, for suppliers at agreed prices and turnaround times. Perhaps both PCR tests and...

Jump to post
by Toenga
Sat Nov 27, 2021 7:45 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: New Zealand Aviation Thread - November 2021
Replies: 289
Views: 30658

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - November 2021

The bits of Australia, NSW and VIC, that were open to double vaxed travellers without Quarantine are now not. https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-11-27/states-and-territories-tighten-borders-omicron-variant/100656490 So Kiwis who have booked flights over, with return after Jan 15th will now have to all...

Jump to post
by Toenga
Sat Nov 27, 2021 12:01 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: New Zealand Aviation Thread - November 2021
Replies: 289
Views: 30658

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - November 2021

Ironically Australia did it around the other way, eg opening up the two covid infected states to the rest of the world before domesticity. Ironically AKL is on level with NSW at the moment. NSW and Sydney are still considerably more vaccinated then the NZ and Auckland pairings. But the observed col...

Jump to post
by Toenga
Fri Nov 26, 2021 8:36 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: New Zealand Aviation Thread - November 2021
Replies: 289
Views: 30658

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - November 2021

Wonder if this will delay the re-opening: (New Omicron variant) https://www.stuff.co.nz/world/300464646/covid19-new-omicron-variant-highly-transmissible-virus--who I think NZ has been very good at observing how the disease is developing overseas, and observing the effects, of changing circumstances...

Jump to post
by Toenga
Wed Nov 24, 2021 10:40 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: New Zealand Aviation Thread - November 2021
Replies: 289
Views: 30658

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - November 2021

The ultimate question many have is - 15 Dec vs 17 Jan. What's the difference? The difference on the NZ side is that on the 15th December NZ opens our internal border. By leaving a two covid cycle gap, until the next significance change, any unexpected rise in case numbers, case distribution, or str...

Jump to post
by Toenga
Wed Nov 24, 2021 7:34 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: New Zealand Aviation Thread - November 2021
Replies: 289
Views: 30658

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - November 2021

A couple of points. Australia is now open. No. NSW and VIC are now open. There is a lot more to Australia then the SE corner. I think there is too much extrapolation, that the next stage in our covid journey will be the ultimate phase. They are all interim phases, totally dependant on how the diseas...

Jump to post
by Toenga
Wed Nov 24, 2021 6:51 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: New Zealand Aviation Thread - November 2021
Replies: 289
Views: 30658

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - November 2021

If I have read the announcement correctly, as an Australian citizen I am going to have to wait until at least April 30 to be able to visit NZ and then go into isolation for 7 days? That's not going to work for business travel and it will also be a deterrent for tourists. I really feel for those wor...

Jump to post
by Toenga
Wed Nov 24, 2021 4:33 am
Forum: Non-Aviation
Topic: COVID-19 Non Aviation Thread - Q4 2021
Replies: 159
Views: 9926

Re: COVID-19 Non Aviation Thread - Q4 2021

Singapore is just about a best case scenario for the pandemic. They kept the infection very low until vaccines were available, they succeeded in vaccinating almost everyone and are now proceeding to open up slowly, with the full expectation that the infection rate and hospitalisations - along with ...

Jump to post
by Toenga
Wed Nov 24, 2021 3:48 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: New Zealand Aviation Thread - November 2021
Replies: 289
Views: 30658

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - November 2021

Certainly not for a short holiday.
Pre departure negative test.
On arrival test.
7 days self isolation at home, what if you don't have a home and are coming to see somebody in care?
Further test before release into the community.
It is easier then the current MIQ arrangements though.

Jump to post
by Toenga
Wed Nov 24, 2021 1:12 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: New Zealand Aviation Thread - November 2021
Replies: 289
Views: 30658

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - November 2021

The addition of an earlier stage, restricted to returning Kiwis only from Australia seems sensible, and in line with the strategy of a succession of more changes, minimilising the size of these changes and stress testing things on the way through. No grand reopening, or freedom day to celebrate but ...

Jump to post
by Toenga
Tue Nov 23, 2021 8:36 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: New Zealand Aviation Thread - November 2021
Replies: 289
Views: 30658

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - November 2021

I think there are several things at play in whether or not to bring forward opening up to Australia. The most important, I think, is the need to stagger the stages of any reopening program, to deal with the undoubted problems that such significant changes, implemented at speed, will have, and give t...

Jump to post
by Toenga
Tue Nov 23, 2021 7:43 pm
Forum: Non-Aviation
Topic: COVID-19 Non Aviation Thread - Q4 2021
Replies: 159
Views: 9926

Re: COVID-19 Non Aviation Thread - Q4 2021

The theory being proposed was that, enzyme induced change boosting mutation rate and weakening its stability as it transmit, ultimately losing out its transitivity. First, for that to happen, the mutated version must first dominate a country's caseload, and it'd be more difficult in situation where...

Jump to post
by Toenga
Tue Nov 23, 2021 7:43 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: New Zealand Aviation Thread - November 2021
Replies: 289
Views: 30658

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - November 2021

More uncertainty for Air NZ leading to more flight cancellations on the Tasman. https://i.stuff.co.nz/travel/travel-troubles/127066431/air-new-zealand-cancels-1000-flights-between-aotearoa-and-australia I don't know what you guys feel about this. I mean NZ's vaccination rate is way ahead of QLD (71...

Jump to post
by Toenga
Tue Nov 23, 2021 6:17 am
Forum: Non-Aviation
Topic: COVID-19 Non Aviation Thread - Q4 2021
Replies: 159
Views: 9926

Re: COVID-19 Non Aviation Thread - Q4 2021

A theory is that delta has mutated to self extinction!!! https://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/covid-19-new-research-suggests-delta-strain-drove-itself-to-extinction-in-japan/Q37746Q7NJS3W4XXTQYC4BGDOA/ Well that sure would be nice. that's the report I posted sone weeks ago But it rely on an enzyme that...

Jump to post
by Toenga
Tue Nov 23, 2021 4:04 am
Forum: Non-Aviation
Topic: COVID-19 Non Aviation Thread - Q4 2021
Replies: 159
Views: 9926

Re: COVID-19 Non Aviation Thread - Q4 2021

Australia is waiting until the new year to start 5-11yo vaccination. 12+ fully vaccinated is now over 90%.in my state of NSW, with close to 95% having had at least a first dose. The booster program has also started. Of the 1,601 cases reported for the week ending 13 November, just over a third were...

Jump to post
by Toenga
Mon Nov 22, 2021 11:01 pm
Forum: Non-Aviation
Topic: COVID-19 Non Aviation Thread - Q4 2021
Replies: 159
Views: 9926

Re: COVID-19 Non Aviation Thread - Q4 2021

Well here is one completly out of left field. Japan which had a serious delta outbreak in October, has now had a spectacular decline in case numbers, from 26000 per day to 200 per day Yesterday was the first day in 15months not to record a covid death. Vaccination rates are good but not spectacular....

Jump to post
by Toenga
Sun Nov 21, 2021 1:07 am
Forum: Non-Aviation
Topic: Cruise Ship/Ocean Liner Thread -2021
Replies: 366
Views: 45772

Re: Cruise Ship/Ocean Liner Thread -2021

Is it just we have a very able progressive young female leader who continues our fiercely independent foreign policies that old middle aged conservatives find so threatening? Her very success constitutes a threat. Is it "old" or is it "middle aged"? Sorry a typo. Just missed the...

Jump to post
by Toenga
Sat Nov 20, 2021 11:45 pm
Forum: Non-Aviation
Topic: Cruise Ship/Ocean Liner Thread -2021
Replies: 366
Views: 45772

Re: Cruise Ship/Ocean Liner Thread -2021

It doesn't really matter what Australia does, as long as New Zealand remains buttoned up. On my OZ/NZ cruise, I found NZ to be the more interesting country. Most of the itineraries include both countries. With the cost and length of flights from the US to Oceania, very few people are going to fly t...

Jump to post
by Toenga
Sat Nov 20, 2021 9:16 pm
Forum: Non-Aviation
Topic: Cruise Ship/Ocean Liner Thread -2021
Replies: 366
Views: 45772

Re: Cruise Ship/Ocean Liner Thread -2021

The return of cruise ships may bring a storm of protest to regional Australian ports. https://www.theguardian.com/business/2021/nov/21/i-cant-see-any-positives-return-of-cruise-ships-may-bring-a-storm-of-protest-to-regional-australian-ports Pre pandemic Australia was reputed to be the largest contri...

Jump to post
by Toenga
Wed Nov 17, 2021 2:14 am
Forum: Non-Aviation
Topic: Covid19 - Vaccine News and discussion thread
Replies: 370
Views: 24832

Re: Covid19 - Vaccine News and discussion thread

Should countries actively infect their population so as to obtain sympathy from vaccine producers to get quicker access ro vaccines? One thing very apparent in NZ, and I strongly suspect in Australia also, is that Pfizer are scrupulous in handling orders in strict order, that they were received. An...

Jump to post
by Toenga
Tue Nov 16, 2021 7:18 pm
Forum: Non-Aviation
Topic: Covid19 - Vaccine News and discussion thread
Replies: 370
Views: 24832

Re: Covid19 - Vaccine News and discussion thread

Covid zero did not fail in Australia and NZ. It was actually incredibly successful. Actually, even post delta. Five Australian states and Northern Territory have been able maintain covid zero to the present, and live with only minimal disruption, losing next to no lives to covid, and move at pace, ...

Jump to post
by Toenga
Mon Nov 15, 2021 9:58 pm
Forum: Non-Aviation
Topic: Covid19 - Vaccine News and discussion thread
Replies: 370
Views: 24832

Re: Covid19 - Vaccine News and discussion thread

People outside China/Hong Kong just do not understand CCP's obssession with Covid-zero and the lengths they are willing to go to, to maintain it. I know the vaccines work, and I have convinced my entire family to have the vaccine long ago. But there really is no need for anyone to take it in Hong K...

Jump to post
by Toenga
Mon Nov 15, 2021 7:42 pm
Forum: Non-Aviation
Topic: Covid19 - Vaccine News and discussion thread
Replies: 370
Views: 24832

Re: Covid19 - Vaccine News and discussion thread

In New Zealand Booster shots available to all over 18, 6 months minimum after their last shot, from November 29th https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/300454957/covid19-nz-booster-vaccine-shots-available-from-end-of-this-month.. Vaccine stock is in hand. The six month limitation and our late av...

Jump to post
by Toenga
Mon Nov 15, 2021 7:16 pm
Forum: Non-Aviation
Topic: What is in Britain's future?
Replies: 114
Views: 4871

Re: What is in Britain's future?

All true, and when you read history it seems like we really haven’t progressed at all. I, too, was shocked by how weak our institutions really are. And how fragile our basic humanity is. As someone born just post WW2, I had come to the view that the genocidal atrocities of WW2 were an apparition in...

Jump to post
by Toenga
Fri Nov 12, 2021 8:18 pm
Forum: Non-Aviation
Topic: Covid19 - Vaccine News and discussion thread
Replies: 370
Views: 24832

Re: Covid19 - Vaccine News and discussion thread

Covid Zero is destined to fail regardless of how draconian the measures. Australia learned, New Zealand learned, Singapore learned and China/Hong Kong will learn too. The only hope we had on getting this squashed was to do a full lockdown of Wuhan/China when the virus was first identified. Even the...

Jump to post
by Toenga
Mon Nov 08, 2021 12:56 am
Forum: Non-Aviation
Topic: COVID-19 Non Aviation Thread - Q4 2021
Replies: 159
Views: 9926

Re: COVID-19 Non Aviation Thread - Q4 2021

We also saw in Australia that the delta strain is so infectious that contact tracing finds it extremely difficult to catch up when it falls behind, even fomr a zero caseload starting point. The Victorian outbreak started via a superspreader event in NSW, where the householders failed to advise trac...

Jump to post
by Toenga
Sun Nov 07, 2021 10:34 pm
Forum: Travel, Polls & Preferences
Topic: What are your favorite planes that you've flown on?
Replies: 43
Views: 2366

Re: What are your favorite planes that you've flown on?

DC3 tops, the first plane I flew on, followed by a few other flights in passenger configuration, plus the most memorable flight of all in the right hand front seat, of ZK AWO converted for single person operation, for dropping fertiliser on to rugged hill country sheep pasture. 3 drop runs at 500 no...

Jump to post
by Toenga
Sun Nov 07, 2021 8:37 am
Forum: Non-Aviation
Topic: COVID-19 Non Aviation Thread - Q4 2021
Replies: 159
Views: 9926

Re: COVID-19 Non Aviation Thread - Q4 2021

Fascinating video today on status in Colorado. https://www.9news.com/video/news/health/coronavirus/vaccine/health-officials-to-provide-friday-update-on-covid-19-in-colorado/73-ef35cd97-c8ca-4a15-aaa1-bf9460201917 Big point at 14:47, due to delayed care on non-coronavirus patients, they are being hi...

Jump to post
by Toenga
Thu Nov 04, 2021 1:45 am
Forum: Non-Aviation
Topic: COVID-19 Non Aviation Thread - Q4 2021
Replies: 159
Views: 9926

Re: COVID-19 Non Aviation Thread - Q4 2021

An study published in the British Medical Journal studied the effect of covid on life expectancy in 37 countries. This is a macro measurement taking into account the secondary effects of the epidemic and the sum of the control measures imposed in the countries studied. The actual deaths in the perio...

Jump to post
by Toenga
Sat Oct 30, 2021 9:00 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: New Zealand Aviation thread - October 2021
Replies: 193
Views: 23682

Re: New Zealand Aviation thread - October 2021

Thanks Nouflyer for an informed and balanced perspective on the choices ahead and the possible consequences. There is a huge disconnect between those that are inconvenienced to varying degrees, by the current overseas travel restrictions, and those for whom the possibilities of overseas travel even...

Jump to post
by Toenga
Sat Oct 30, 2021 7:17 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: New Zealand Aviation thread - October 2021
Replies: 193
Views: 23682

Re: New Zealand Aviation thread - October 2021

Thanks Nouflyer for an informed and balanced perspective on the choices ahead and the possible consequences. There is a huge disconnect between those that are inconvenienced to varying degrees, by the current overseas travel restrictions, and those for whom the possibilities of overseas travel even ...

Jump to post
by Toenga
Tue Oct 26, 2021 9:51 pm
Forum: Travel, Polls & Preferences
Topic: Airliner types under threat of extinction
Replies: 15
Views: 1443

Re: Airliner types under threat of extinction

The 767-400 is an interesting model. Only 48 frames were built for Continental and Delta with the split at 21 and 28, but I can't remember who got which sets of frames. The landing gear was unique and spares were an issue when changing out a set to be overhauled. Actually, only 37 frames were built...

Jump to post
by Toenga
Mon Oct 25, 2021 9:59 pm
Forum: Non-Aviation
Topic: Covid19 - Vaccine News and discussion thread
Replies: 370
Views: 24832

Re: Covid19 - Vaccine News and discussion thread

The virus does not know or care who is eligible for vaccination This is true. Schools in particular spread the virus: To others: https://gazette.com/news/us-world/children-fuel-english-covid-case-rise-after-slow-vaccine-start/article_34a701de-c0e1-5c6c-9f40-fc9461ea456c.amp.html The UK tends to hav...

Jump to post
by Toenga
Mon Oct 25, 2021 7:32 am
Forum: Non-Aviation
Topic: Covid19 - Vaccine News and discussion thread
Replies: 370
Views: 24832

Re: Covid19 - Vaccine News and discussion thread

The virus does not know or care who is eligible for vaccination Although appears to present a lower risk in the young than in adults, even with Delta variant. In my state (NSW Australia), 83.1% of 12yo+ are fully vaccinated. Approx. 5.6% of almost 59,000 cases since 16 June have been fully vaccinat...

Jump to post
by Toenga
Mon Oct 25, 2021 5:22 am
Forum: Non-Aviation
Topic: Can Islam reform ?
Replies: 61
Views: 3637

Re: Can Islam reform ?

Islam like any other religion is very very far from homogeneous. And like other religions, it is dynamic, the views and practices are constantly evolving. The basic tenants are very subject to interpretation. Although I think the Koran is more prescriptive, and less allegorical then the Bible, slowi...

Jump to post
by Toenga
Sun Oct 24, 2021 9:23 pm
Forum: Non-Aviation
Topic: Covid19 - Vaccine News and discussion thread
Replies: 370
Views: 24832

Re: Covid19 - Vaccine News and discussion thread

@scrimbl I take my data re:vaccination in England from the vaccination data published daily by NHS England. Any calculations done by me are based on the population of England. So if I say that 80% of the population... whatever, it refers to 80% of the entire population, not 80% those who qualify fo...

Jump to post
by Toenga
Sun Oct 24, 2021 7:50 pm
Forum: Non-Aviation
Topic: Covid19 - Vaccine News and discussion thread
Replies: 370
Views: 24832

Re: Covid19 - Vaccine News and discussion thread

I see a late, large government reaction to the rising infection rate looming. The rise in the English population being vaccinated - currently at 74% first dosed, 68% fully dosed - is petering out at a level too low to stop the epidemic spiralling upwards without behavioural changes. Where did you g...

Jump to post
by Toenga
Fri Oct 22, 2021 10:55 pm
Forum: Non-Aviation
Topic: Covid19 - Vaccine News and discussion thread
Replies: 370
Views: 24832

Re: Covid19 - Vaccine News and discussion thread

New Zealand is transitioning away from it' current 3 level covid alert system to a three colour traffic light system once 90% vaccination levels of eligible people, are reached in local district health boards. (NZ has age 12 and over eligible for vaccination) https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/4540...

Jump to post
by Toenga
Mon Oct 18, 2021 8:23 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: 50-seat RJ replacement: "the plane that doesn't exist..."
Replies: 218
Views: 21715

Re: 50-seat RJ replacement: "the plane that doesn't exist..."

Do telecommuters and zoom addicts need to travel for business on a weekly basis? Or even monthly? Quarterly? Its not telecommuters. Lots of the travel out to these places is really technical or observational in nature, in my experience. Its really a function of how we as a country treat the rural c...

Jump to post
by Toenga
Sun Oct 17, 2021 11:03 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: New Zealand Aviation thread - October 2021
Replies: 193
Views: 23682

Re: New Zealand Aviation thread - October 2021

It will be interesting to see if AKL is opened upt o international visitors without quarantine. If Covid is in the community & the community is vaccinated how much risk does a person arriving who is also fully vaccinated and tested negative pose ? I've heard this argument a lot over the weekend...

Jump to post
by Toenga
Sat Oct 16, 2021 11:35 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: New Zealand Aviation thread - October 2021
Replies: 193
Views: 23682

Re: New Zealand Aviation thread - October 2021

My own view is that as long as we can keep covid confined to within the Auckland containment lines it is best to do so. So although Auckland may start to move down the alert levels, or shortly, the three part colour traffic light spectrum, we will still retain the Auckland border for some time yet. ...

Jump to post
by Toenga
Sun Oct 10, 2021 9:40 pm
Forum: Non-Aviation
Topic: Covid19 - Vaccine News and discussion thread
Replies: 370
Views: 24832

Re: Covid19 - Vaccine News and discussion thread

Perhaps it's also a function of items like personal behaviors (people get more cautious during a surge), weather, time of year, etc.). Undoubtably fear of catching covid is a huge incentive for receiving the vaccination. This is particularily evident in the disparity of vaccination rates in Austral...

Jump to post
by Toenga
Sun Oct 10, 2021 7:25 pm
Forum: Non-Aviation
Topic: Covid19 - Vaccine News and discussion thread
Replies: 370
Views: 24832

Re: Covid19 - Vaccine News and discussion thread

There is continuing confusion of the % of vaccination levels required to achieve what, because governments conginue to use the measure that makes them look the best. The % of "eligible" population but the age of eligibity is variable between countries. Australia publishes it's figures on t...

Jump to post
by Toenga
Wed Oct 06, 2021 2:13 am
Forum: Non-Aviation
Topic: Covid19 - Vaccine News and discussion thread
Replies: 370
Views: 24832

Re: Covid19 - Vaccine News and discussion thread

So time and medical science is continuing to deliver more and more measures to reduce transmission, and or reduce the consequences of being infected. Public Health measures such as contact tracing and placing infected people in isolation such as already employed for diseases such as measles, plus mo...

Jump to post
by Toenga
Tue Oct 05, 2021 3:49 am
Forum: Non-Aviation
Topic: COVID-19 Non Aviation Thread - Q4 2021
Replies: 159
Views: 9926

Re: COVID-19 Non Aviation Thread - Q4 2021

https://www.wsj.com/articles/new-zealand-to-end-zero-covid-19-strategy-11633331640 https://www.asahi.com/ajw/articles/14453754 https://www.ndtv.com/world-news/coronavirus-new-zealand-drops-covid-zero-goal-after-game-changer-delta-variant-2562950 New Zealand announced end to covid zero policy, relax...

Jump to post
by Toenga
Tue Oct 05, 2021 1:24 am
Forum: Non-Aviation
Topic: ‘Stab in the back’: France accuses US of sinking Australia submarine deal
Replies: 274
Views: 14849

Re: ‘Stab in the back’: France accuses US of sinking Australia submarine deal

It's nice how you ignored my questions about your distorted view of history. All history is distorted by all commentators in attempt to explain the multitude of factors, and the interactions between them. Simple question--who were the two empires fighting over colonies? There were more then two, co...

Jump to post
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • 7