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by OldAeroGuy
Wed Aug 07, 2019 9:30 pm
Forum: Technical/Operations
Topic: Did/Does the 779X need a new wing? and does it need to be so big?
Replies: 47
Views: 8844

Re: Did/Does the 779X need a new wing? and does it need to be so big?

Wing loading plays a different role in performance than wing span, it comes down to the objective of the design and how it is optimized. Since lift = weight at cruise, and since wing loading = weight/ wing area, using the lift equation we get the following: Air density = (2 * gravity * wing loading...

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by OldAeroGuy
Wed Aug 07, 2019 9:25 pm
Forum: Technical/Operations
Topic: Did/Does the 779X need a new wing? and does it need to be so big?
Replies: 47
Views: 8844

Re: Did/Does the 779X need a new wing? and does it need to be so big?

Airbus and Boeing use different methods for calculating wing areas, and hence their published wing area figures can’t be compared head to head. This means the wing loading and aspect ratios comparisons using the published figured will be slightly inaccurate, especially when the figures are very clo...

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by OldAeroGuy
Wed Aug 07, 2019 12:55 pm
Forum: Technical/Operations
Topic: Did/Does the 779X need a new wing? and does it need to be so big?
Replies: 47
Views: 8844

Re: Did/Does the 779X need a new wing? and does it need to be so big?

B777-300ER was competing against whom? It can't compete against A350. I think A380 also has high wing loading. To answer these statements in two parts: The B777-300ER was competing against the A340-600. It did rather well in this regard, out-selling its competition at an approximate 8:1 ratio. Let'...

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by OldAeroGuy
Wed Aug 07, 2019 11:46 am
Forum: Technical/Operations
Topic: Single point of failure and incident classifications
Replies: 3
Views: 1918

Re: Single point of failure and incident classifications

The language you are looking for is contained in FAR 25.1309 and AC 25.1309. You have an incorrect understanding of SPOF though. An SPOF cannot prevent "Continued Safe Flight and Landing" (ie a catastrophic event) regardless of its probability. Here's the language of AC 25.1309: 5. THE FAA...

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by OldAeroGuy
Wed Aug 07, 2019 1:45 am
Forum: Technical/Operations
Topic: Can single deck airplanes have gull wings of A380?
Replies: 29
Views: 3404

Re: Can single deck airplanes have gull wings of A380?

What leads you to the belief that wings with a pronounced "gull" won't work on an airplane with a single passenger deck?

Single deck high wing airplanes seem to work just fine i.e. look at the C-141 or BAe 146.

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by OldAeroGuy
Tue Aug 06, 2019 7:20 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Boeing 737MAX Grounded Worldwide Q3 2019
Replies: 4380
Views: 662612

Re: Boeing 737MAX Grounded Worldwide Q3 2019

If they did not the wind tunnelling team is not up to the job. Until wind tunnels are capable of producing full scale Reynolds numbers, wind tunnel data cannot accurately reproduce full scale wing stall patterns. This means flight test stall testing can be highly uncertain and surprises can occur.....

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by OldAeroGuy
Mon Jul 29, 2019 11:58 pm
Forum: Technical/Operations
Topic: 777X high lift system
Replies: 20
Views: 3795

Re: 777X high lift system

All 777's have an all speed Flaperon that was adapted for the 787. All 777's have a double slotted inboard flap. All 777's have a single slotted outboard flap. A major difference for the 777-9 is that the outboard flap has been divided in two inboard and outboard segments. This has required four out...

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by OldAeroGuy
Thu Jul 25, 2019 9:17 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Confirmed: 777X First Flight Delayed Due GE9X Issues
Replies: 320
Views: 77152

Re: Confirmed: 777X First Flight Delayed Due GE9X Issues

With regard to first flight in early 2020 and certification by the end of 2020, there are certification tests that don't require flying to accomplish. Examples would be: Cargo compartment fire suppression HIRF investigation Structural vibration frequency investigation Vmcg (probably doubtful at Pai...

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by OldAeroGuy
Thu Jul 25, 2019 4:43 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Confirmed: 777X First Flight Delayed Due GE9X Issues
Replies: 320
Views: 77152

Re: Confirmed: 777X First Flight Delayed Due GE9X Issues

With regard to first flight in early 2020 and certification by the end of 2020, there are certification tests that don't require flying to accomplish. Examples would be: Cargo compartment fire suppression HIRF investigation Structural vibration frequency investigation Vmcg (probably doubtful at Pain...

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by OldAeroGuy
Tue Jul 23, 2019 2:14 pm
Forum: Technical/Operations
Topic: Minimum Runway Length Requirement
Replies: 10
Views: 3665

Re: Minimum Runway Length Requirement

Minimum takeoff field lengths are usually set by Vmcg considerations so the important parameters are takeoff thrust, vertical tail area, and aft body length. For weights below the Vmcg critical level, TOFL is virtually constant. https://www.boeing.com/resources/boeingdotcom/commercial/airports/acaps...

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by OldAeroGuy
Mon Jul 22, 2019 3:22 pm
Forum: Technical/Operations
Topic: What airplane could make it from ARI to CHC nonstop?
Replies: 9
Views: 2036

Re: What airplane could make it from ARI to CHC nonstop?

For a 777-200LR with 330 min ETOPS, the great circle distance for this route is 5,748nm. There would be no ETOPS route restriction with 330 min ETOPS. Using the performance data from D6-58329-2, 777-200LR takeoff weight from a 7000' field at SL on a 30 deg C day is 292.6t. I haven't checked the pave...

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by OldAeroGuy
Fri Jul 19, 2019 6:29 pm
Forum: Technical/Operations
Topic: Did/Does the 779X need a new wing? and does it need to be so big?
Replies: 47
Views: 8844

Re: Did/Does the 779X need a new wing? and does it need to be so big?

The elephant in the room is Takeoff performance. If the fuel use is effectively identical between the 779X and 77W with GE9x then the Empty weight difference of ~13t can remain. Would the [email protected] 337T be able to cope with 105klb engines?, when does it need the full 115klb? could the GE9X produce this?...

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by OldAeroGuy
Tue Jul 16, 2019 2:42 pm
Forum: Technical/Operations
Topic: RAT Deployment and ETOPS
Replies: 28
Views: 3077

Re: RAT Deployment and ETOPS

Plus, if the RAT is deployed and not needed, the RAT blades will reduce pitch to control RPM. RAT drag under this condition will be considerably less than if hydraulic or electrical power was being produced. True that the blades will feather, but only to a point. There will still be significant dra...

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by OldAeroGuy
Sun Jul 14, 2019 4:13 pm
Forum: Technical/Operations
Topic: RAT Deployment and ETOPS
Replies: 28
Views: 3077

Re: RAT Deployment and ETOPS

Plus, if the RAT is deployed and not needed, the RAT blades will reduce pitch to control RPM. RAT drag under this condition will be considerably less than if hydraulic or electrical power was being produced.

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by OldAeroGuy
Sat Jul 13, 2019 3:08 pm
Forum: Technical/Operations
Topic: RAT Deployment and ETOPS
Replies: 28
Views: 3077

Re: RAT Deployment and ETOPS

The RAT on the 757/767 deploys when both engines fail, to provide hydraulic power to the flight controls. The HMG (Hydraulic Motor Generator) or HDG (Hydraulic Driver Generator) provides electrical power with loss of both AC buses. They do not work at the same time. With loss of both engines you ha...

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by OldAeroGuy
Sun Jul 07, 2019 3:07 pm
Forum: Technical/Operations
Topic: A340 dumps fuel touching down while on runway..
Replies: 21
Views: 4904

Re: A340 dumps fuel touching down while on runway..

No doubt this is an AB airplane dumping fuel while on the ground.

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by OldAeroGuy
Sun Jul 07, 2019 3:01 am
Forum: Technical/Operations
Topic: A340 dumps fuel touching down while on runway..
Replies: 21
Views: 4904

Re: A340 dumps fuel touching down while on runway..

Max Q wrote:
That picture definitely shows fuel coming out of one of the dump nozzles


Except the picture appears to be a 757. The 757 does not have fuel jettison (ie dump) nozzles.

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by OldAeroGuy
Sun Jun 30, 2019 11:37 pm
Forum: Technical/Operations
Topic: Wind tunnel drag test
Replies: 16
Views: 2406

Re: Wind tunnel drag test

The 2-D model has an L/D ratio of 2.46 The 3-D has an L/D of 2.28 So the 2-D model is slightly more efficient. However, with AoA = 15 deg, if this isn't a high lift system test, I suspect both wings are stalled so the L/D values are irrelevant. The low L/D levels are consistent with stalled wings. A...

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by OldAeroGuy
Sun Jun 30, 2019 8:03 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Boeing 737MAX Grounded Worldwide Q3 2019
Replies: 4380
Views: 662612

Re: Boeing 737MAX Grounded Worldwide Q3 2019

From the Q2 Thread: 7BOEING7 Quote: "That's right "facts". Mullaly was behind all the outsourcing of 787 -- we all thought it was an accident looking for a place to happen. He took it to the Board which did not include McNerney at the time and the 787 was born." One must remember...

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by OldAeroGuy
Thu Jun 27, 2019 11:05 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Boeing 737MAX Grounded Worldwide Q2 2019
Replies: 3768
Views: 411391

Re: Boeing 737MAX Grounded Worldwide Q2 2019

Just imagine for a moment spending a few seconds finding the QRH which then tells you to repond within 3 seconds. No it doesnt, nor does the EID because it is ludicrous. Ray No need to find the QRH as the response to a Stab Trim Runaway is a memory item, as stated many times on this thread.. I don'...

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by OldAeroGuy
Thu Jun 27, 2019 10:49 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Boeing 737MAX Grounded Worldwide Q2 2019
Replies: 3768
Views: 411391

Re: Boeing 737MAX Grounded Worldwide Q2 2019

The way I read this section is that it is defining the power and capability that a trim system must have. To my reading, it's determining how much capability the system needs to have so that the pilot can achieve a fast enough response from the system. In other words, the 3 seconds is defining what...

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by OldAeroGuy
Thu Jun 27, 2019 7:52 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Boeing 737MAX Grounded Worldwide Q2 2019
Replies: 3768
Views: 411391

Re: Boeing 737MAX Grounded Worldwide Q2 2019

But what exactly are the symptoms to be determined within 3 seconds? Sts is another source of trim movement without direct pilot command, and it happens often. So how to ensure response to actual runaway without many false alarms? As Mentor Pilot says in his video, STS is making control forces easi...

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by OldAeroGuy
Thu Jun 27, 2019 7:45 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Boeing 737MAX Grounded Worldwide Q2 2019
Replies: 3768
Views: 411391

Re: Boeing 737MAX Grounded Worldwide Q2 2019

Just imagine for a moment spending a few seconds finding the QRH which then tells you to repond within 3 seconds. No it doesnt, nor does the EID because it is ludicrous. Ray No need to find the QRH as the response to a Stab Trim Runaway is a memory item, as stated many times on this thread.. Except...

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by OldAeroGuy
Thu Jun 27, 2019 7:20 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Boeing 737MAX Grounded Worldwide Q2 2019
Replies: 3768
Views: 411391

Re: Boeing 737MAX Grounded Worldwide Q2 2019

While reading technical documents is not my forté, I also did not find where this document suggests anything about requiring a 3-second reaction time from pilots. As far as I can tell, the 3-second references in this Part 25 document are merely about defining how tests ought to be conducted. Search...

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by OldAeroGuy
Thu Jun 27, 2019 6:45 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Boeing 737MAX Grounded Worldwide Q2 2019
Replies: 3768
Views: 411391

Re: Boeing 737MAX Grounded Worldwide Q2 2019

Just imagine for a moment spending a few seconds finding the QRH which then tells you to repond within 3 seconds. No it doesnt, nor does the EID because it is ludicrous. Ray No need to find the QRH as the response to a Stab Trim Runaway is a memory item, as stated many times on this thread.. Just a...

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by OldAeroGuy
Thu Jun 27, 2019 6:13 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Boeing 737MAX Grounded Worldwide Q2 2019
Replies: 3768
Views: 411391

Re: Boeing 737MAX Grounded Worldwide Q2 2019

XRAYretired wrote:
Just imagine for a moment spending a few seconds finding the QRH which then tells you to repond within 3 seconds. No it doesnt, nor does the EID because it is ludicrous.

Ray


No need to find the QRH as the response to a Stab Trim Runaway is a memory item, as stated many times on this thread..

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by OldAeroGuy
Thu Jun 27, 2019 6:07 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Boeing 737MAX Grounded Worldwide Q2 2019
Replies: 3768
Views: 411391

Re: Boeing 737MAX Grounded Worldwide Q2 2019

As I read it, the 3 seconds is about control response to an upset, e.g. pulling the stick back and getting a relevant response when the nose drops unexpectedly, within 3 seconds. It has nothing to do or say about identifying an airframe or system cause of the upset in the first place or doing somet...

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by OldAeroGuy
Thu Jun 27, 2019 5:16 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Boeing 737MAX Grounded Worldwide Q2 2019
Replies: 3768
Views: 411391

Re: Boeing 737MAX Grounded Worldwide Q2 2019

I thought Boeing were going back to the original idea of sanity testing MCAS inputs, I don't see how Boeing can hope to pass certification standards if MCAS gets shut off with a disagree of 5.5 degrees and has less authority. Why was is it there in the first place if it can just be disregarded so e...

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by OldAeroGuy
Thu Jun 27, 2019 5:05 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Boeing 737MAX Grounded Worldwide Q2 2019
Replies: 3768
Views: 411391

Re: Boeing 737MAX Grounded Worldwide Q2 2019

3 seconds might be how long it takes you to say "what the hell" when suddenly the plane does something you do not expect, let alone figure out which systems is the cause, and then turn it off. Are you saying the certification agencies need to change their Part 25 flight test guidance mate...

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by OldAeroGuy
Thu Jun 27, 2019 4:59 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Boeing 737MAX Grounded Worldwide Q2 2019
Replies: 3768
Views: 411391

Re: Boeing 737MAX Grounded Worldwide Q2 2019

So one sensor reads 57 degrees and the other 60, we are all good here right? lets jack on some MCAS!! Nah. You have to make more checks. I believe MCASv2.0 handles this by having only one cycle per event. If your case was present, MCASv2.0 would cycle once only as both vanes would be above the MCAS...

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by OldAeroGuy
Thu Jun 27, 2019 3:40 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Boeing 737MAX Grounded Worldwide Q2 2019
Replies: 3768
Views: 411391

Re: Boeing 737MAX Grounded Worldwide Q2 2019

There was a report last week that Boeing safety analysis for Max relied on pilots being able to deal with MCAS within 3 seconds Which at the time seemed incredibly ambitious and optimistic and risky to me for them to expect and plan for that? Your post above is written in a way that kind of suggest...

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by OldAeroGuy
Sun Jun 23, 2019 1:13 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Boeing 777X Testing Thread - 2019
Replies: 1441
Views: 370006

Re: Boeing 777X Testing Thread - 2019

These inlets are enabled by a clever aerodynamic analysis that enables the engines to be closer to the wing (vertical separation is reduced). There is a nacelle/wing interaction that can be good or really bad. Boeing/GE have figured out how to make it always good. Lightsaber This "clever aerod...

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by OldAeroGuy
Sat Jun 15, 2019 3:09 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Boeing 777X Testing Thread - 2019
Replies: 1441
Views: 370006

Re: Boeing 777X Testing Thread - 2019

Bricktop wrote:
Revelation wrote:
I wonder if that is a FAA-approved rubber band on the gold throttle lever? :biggrin:

Maybe I will start a thread on grandfathering of rubber bands. :white:


I think this is the same rubber band I saw being used during 737-200 flight testing in 1967.

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by OldAeroGuy
Wed Jun 12, 2019 4:04 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Boeing 737MAX Grounded Worldwide Q2 2019
Replies: 3768
Views: 411391

Re: Boeing 737MAX Grounded Worldwide Q2 2019

As for engine failure at takeoff, at least from the formal perspective, what is the probability of failure within those 3-5 critical minutes? Optimistically, I assume less than 1e-6 - although 1 in 100k hours for ETOPS180 means just about 1e-6. If you will, there are 2.5k flights daily at ATL and 2...

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by OldAeroGuy
Wed Jun 12, 2019 3:16 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Boeing 737MAX Grounded Worldwide Q2 2019
Replies: 3768
Views: 411391

Re: Boeing 737MAX Grounded Worldwide Q2 2019

What kind of fatal error engine shutdown can cause? Shutting down wrong engine is surely one thing; and it have happened before. You probably know better than me what are precautions to avoid that. What else can be done what cannot be undone? What other actions are critical to be performed right aw...

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by OldAeroGuy
Wed Jun 12, 2019 1:58 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Boeing 737MAX Grounded Worldwide Q2 2019
Replies: 3768
Views: 411391

Re: Boeing 737MAX Grounded Worldwide Q2 2019

Exactly why I don't really care that much for the pilot training element I want it but it's just icing on the cake for me. I don't want them facing these issues full stop. And thats exactly what aviation safety should be aiming for before we even worry about their training I fear to get MACS safe t...

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by OldAeroGuy
Wed Jun 12, 2019 1:44 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Boeing 737MAX Grounded Worldwide Q2 2019
Replies: 3768
Views: 411391

Re: Boeing 737MAX Grounded Worldwide Q2 2019

We would have a hard time justifying a human based control having a PFD of less than 0.1. If the safety case has a low initiating event frequency, multiple layers of protection, and you end up with an acceptable residual risk then that’s fine - in other words, in the NG case, people can be a long w...

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by OldAeroGuy
Tue Jun 11, 2019 5:17 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Boeing 737MAX Grounded Worldwide Q2 2019
Replies: 3768
Views: 411391

Re: Boeing 737MAX Grounded Worldwide Q2 2019

What is (conveniently?) missing in this comparison is the initial size of the JT8D had when the fuselage was designed compared to the LEAP 1B of today... it was 48" and the same fuselage LEAP 1B Fan/Fuselage Width: 46.7% JT8D Fan/Fuselage Width: 32,5% Still convinced that it has a neglectible ...

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by OldAeroGuy
Tue Jun 11, 2019 3:48 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Boeing 737MAX Grounded Worldwide Q2 2019
Replies: 3768
Views: 411391

Re: Boeing 737MAX Grounded Worldwide Q2 2019

So too large for fuselage or overall layout suffered? I believe A320 fuselage is about same size and handles same size engines as MAX without extra issues. So starting statement plane with engines too big for the fuselage becomes questionable. Which doesn't bring extra credibility to the rest of it...

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by OldAeroGuy
Mon Jun 10, 2019 12:43 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Boeing 737MAX Grounded Worldwide Q2 2019
Replies: 3768
Views: 411391

Re: Boeing 737MAX Grounded Worldwide Q2 2019

I have wondered by Boeing didn't put it in the EAD. It is in the EAD, along with a list of other symptoms. Here's a portion of the EAD along with indications that would have been present shortly after liftoff for ET302 are shown in BOLD. AOA DISAGREE is shown in italic. 737 MAX EAD 2018-23-51 lists...

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by OldAeroGuy
Sun Jun 09, 2019 5:49 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Boeing 737MAX Grounded Worldwide Q2 2019
Replies: 3768
Views: 411391

Re: Boeing 737MAX Grounded Worldwide Q2 2019

Interested wrote:

They deliberately created a defective sensor to prevent pilot overload. Same reason they didn't tell the test pilots who were writing the manual for Max about MCAS


No, Boeing did not create a defective sensor to prevent pilot overload.

Your logic path strains a rational thought process.

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by OldAeroGuy
Sun Jun 09, 2019 3:12 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Boeing 737MAX Grounded Worldwide Q2 2019
Replies: 3768
Views: 411391

Re: Boeing 737MAX Grounded Worldwide Q2 2019

Any help the indicator could give has to be a factor in whether the pilots could have dealt better with the situation they were in Surely that's a given? Not necessarily. The ET302 crew appears to have been overloaded by the indications that were available on the flight deck. Another indication tha...

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by OldAeroGuy
Sun Jun 09, 2019 1:01 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Boeing 737MAX Grounded Worldwide Q2 2019
Replies: 3768
Views: 411391

Re: Boeing 737MAX Grounded Worldwide Q2 2019

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-48461110 So Chris Brady (author of 737 technical guide and pilot) is wrong saying the disagree light would be first warning something is wrong and could have helped save the plane? His view is wrong and can be discounted can it? No point calling him as a witness in...

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by OldAeroGuy
Sun Jun 09, 2019 1:09 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Boeing 737MAX Grounded Worldwide Q2 2019
Replies: 3768
Views: 411391

Re: Boeing 737MAX Grounded Worldwide Q2 2019

. . . With IAS DISAGREE and possibly ALT DISAGREE (amber alerts) visible to the flight crew if they were "familiar" with the bulletin, that would have been more than enough to alert them to an MCAS issue -- IMHO the lack of an AOA DISAGREE amber alert has always been a non-event and blown...

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by OldAeroGuy
Sun Jun 09, 2019 1:05 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Boeing 737MAX Grounded Worldwide Q2 2019
Replies: 3768
Views: 411391

Re: Boeing 737MAX Grounded Worldwide Q2 2019

So, 10 - 25.01, 11 - 25.02, 12 -25.03 is within spec? No, an FAA or OEM AR pilot would consider this as neutrally stable and flunk the configuration per 25.203. Or is there some minimum increase in force? No, this one of the areas in the FAR's that is subject to pilot evaluation. The airplane has t...

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by OldAeroGuy
Sat Jun 08, 2019 8:13 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Boeing 737MAX Grounded Worldwide Q2 2019
Replies: 3768
Views: 411391

Re: Boeing 737MAX Grounded Worldwide Q2 2019

What you're showing in this example is the rate of force decrease, d^2F/da^2. I am referring to fig. 7.2 in AC 25-7D where "acceptable" curve (vs speed) shows that exact behavior - decrease of derivative to zero at the edge. You interpret such behavior (vs AoA) as unacceptable. So where d...

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by OldAeroGuy
Sat Jun 08, 2019 4:51 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Boeing 737MAX Grounded Worldwide Q2 2019
Replies: 3768
Views: 411391

Re: Boeing 737MAX Grounded Worldwide Q2 2019

What you're showing in this example is the rate of force decrease, d^2F/da^2. I am referring to fig. 7.2 in AC 25-7D where "acceptable" curve (vs speed) shows that exact behavior - decrease of derivative to zero at the edge. You interpret such behavior (vs AoA) as unacceptable. So where d...

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by OldAeroGuy
Sat Jun 08, 2019 4:10 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Boeing 737MAX Grounded Worldwide Q2 2019
Replies: 3768
Views: 411391

Re: Boeing 737MAX Grounded Worldwide Q2 2019

The adaptive cruse control is yet again a dismal comparison. If the cruse control would accelerate on the failure off one sensor, you would have a comparison. On the failure of the cruise control, nothing hinders you to brake yourself. The car is not actively trying to kill you and your passengers....

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by OldAeroGuy
Sat Jun 08, 2019 4:02 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Boeing 737MAX Grounded Worldwide Q2 2019
Replies: 3768
Views: 411391

Re: Boeing 737MAX Grounded Worldwide Q2 2019

I've seen a report a couple of weeks ago suggesting the warning light would have allowed the Ethiopian pilots to recognise and identify their problem earlier If that's true then it's end of argument about whether or not it would have helped them. Do you have a source for the suggestion? I'm curious...

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