Search found 3034 matches

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by 7BOEING7
Sat May 18, 2019 3:56 am
Forum: Technical/Operations
Topic: Engine failure question
Replies: 46
Views: 4180

Re: Engine failure question

When empty the of passengers and freight, quads are actually allowed to takeoff on 3 engines and ferry to a maintenance base. If certified to do so. In previous discussions of 3 engine ferry I believe it was mentioned that the 748 was not certified for 3 engine ferry — I could be mistaken. Boeing u...

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by 7BOEING7
Wed May 15, 2019 3:04 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Boeing 737MAX Grounded Worldwide Q2 2019
Replies: 3768
Views: 385282

Re: Boeing 737MAX Grounded Worldwide Q2 2019

If by deficiencies you mean 'clairvoyance' especially in terms of the lion Air pilots then many would be in complete agreement with you. I will reserve judgement until the final reports are out, but it appears he isn't wrong. Why the Lion air crew didn't jump on the "RUNAWAY STABILIZER' NNC is...

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by 7BOEING7
Wed May 15, 2019 2:58 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Boeing 737MAX Grounded Worldwide Q2 2019
Replies: 3768
Views: 385282

Re: Boeing 737MAX Grounded Worldwide Q2 2019

At “high AOA” in a clean wing configuration is all that’s needed to define it. Could be an AF 447 event or FlyDubai. It just doesn’t happen randomly, it happens when pilots mishandle the plane without realizing what they’re doing. High AOA is pretty rare in normal operations. GF Add to that an aft ...

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by 7BOEING7
Wed May 15, 2019 3:33 am
Forum: Technical/Operations
Topic: Engine failure question
Replies: 46
Views: 4180

Re: Engine failure question

If an engine failed but the situation was not critical, I think they would try to land at an airport suitable for a 737 or at least a regional airport (not the best but should land safely) and not a small general aviation airport. But in case of something like a decompression, I think they would tr...

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by 7BOEING7
Tue May 14, 2019 9:32 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Boeing 737MAX Grounded Worldwide Q2 2019
Replies: 3768
Views: 385282

Re: Boeing 737MAX Grounded Worldwide Q2 2019

During production acceptance flights, the 737NG is flown in manual reversion (no hydraulics except standby rudder) and the trim wheel is also used -- there have been no noticeable issues with any of the pilots who come in all ages, sizes, shapes and genders -- IMHO the MAX would not be any differen...

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by 7BOEING7
Tue May 14, 2019 9:15 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Boeing 737MAX Grounded Worldwide Q2 2019
Replies: 3768
Views: 385282

Re: Boeing 737MAX Grounded Worldwide Q2 2019

During production acceptance flights, the 737NG is flown in manual reversion (no hydraulics except standby rudder) and the trim wheel is also used -- there have been no noticeable issues with any of the pilots who come in all ages, sizes, shapes and genders -- IMHO the MAX would not be any differen...

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by 7BOEING7
Tue May 14, 2019 5:53 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Boeing 737MAX Grounded Worldwide Q2 2019
Replies: 3768
Views: 385282

Re: Boeing 737MAX Grounded Worldwide Q2 2019

To be fair, it's probably because a lot of the systems haven't been updated since 1967... I guess at this point we can call it great-grandfathering? I think this is slowly becoming a problem on its own. Overspeed in ET flight notwithstanding, you do need certain amount of physical power to fly the ...

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by 7BOEING7
Mon May 13, 2019 3:25 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Boeing 737MAX Grounded Worldwide Q2 2019
Replies: 3768
Views: 385282

Re: Boeing 737MAX Grounded Worldwide Q2 2019

Ok, so say that Boeing does re-brand the Max as Trump suggests.... what will they call it? -800 and -900 are already taken.....the -10 would be ok.... but what about the other 2. Boeing 737NEO? :lol: Why not. Boeing was using the term "Airbus" to describe one of its 747 models -- later Ai...

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by 7BOEING7
Mon May 13, 2019 3:06 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Boeing 787 Production/Delivery Thread - 2019
Replies: 550
Views: 123655

Re: Boeing 787 Production/Delivery Thread - 2019

There is always a rejected takeoff performed before first flight. New brakes+heavy use=dust. Also, a great angle to capture the effect. Not be picky but, The RTO (Rejected Take Off) check is performed at the end of the flight. What you see before the flight is a check to confirm full takeoff thrust...

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by 7BOEING7
Sun May 12, 2019 3:00 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Boeing 737MAX Grounded Worldwide Q2 2019
Replies: 3768
Views: 385282

Re: 737-10MAX - Potential problem?

I thought this could be a thread on its own. If not, merge it with one of the many MAX threads. I was thinking and got worried about something for boeing. With current models of the MAX being under scrutiny in regards to certification with the latest news showing some emergency procedures havent be...

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by 7BOEING7
Sat May 11, 2019 9:11 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Boeing 737MAX Grounded Worldwide Q2 2019
Replies: 3768
Views: 385282

Re: Boeing 737MAX Grounded Worldwide Q2 2019

This i probably old news, but the claim that MCAS relied on only one AoA sensor was a deliberate design choice in order to avoid extra training for pilots, since new two-sensor features would require just that, is horrifying. https://youtu.be/QytfYyHmxtc?t=35m23s And doesn't make any sense, especia...

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by 7BOEING7
Sat May 11, 2019 4:56 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Boeing 777X Testing Thread - 2019
Replies: 636
Views: 164939

Re: Boeing 777X Testing Thread - 2019

Most if not all of the fatigue tests are/ were conducted outside. The static test is always inside.

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by 7BOEING7
Sat May 11, 2019 5:00 am
Forum: Technical/Operations
Topic: Direct mode charachteristics and currency
Replies: 12
Views: 2078

Re: Direct mode charachteristics and currency

Prior to delivery every 777 is flown in Secondary Mode -- by turning off both L & R Main generators and the L & R Backup generators. Once the power is recovered the PFC switch is selected to DISC (as noted above) to go to Direct mode. When done flying in Direct mode (it's no big deal -- that...

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by 7BOEING7
Fri May 10, 2019 8:33 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Boeing 737MAX Grounded Worldwide Q2 2019
Replies: 3768
Views: 385282

Re: Boeing 737MAX Grounded Worldwide Q2 2019

See here: https://youtu.be/QytfYyHmxtc?t=2120 "We knew that FAA would not certify 2 sensor setup without level D training" I’ve seen this stated before, and I’m not doubting it’s true, but what is the logic behind it? Why would two sensor inputs require sim time while 1 does not? I’m not ...

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by 7BOEING7
Fri May 10, 2019 5:18 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Boeing 737MAX Grounded Worldwide Q2 2019
Replies: 3768
Views: 385282

Re: Boeing 737MAX Grounded Worldwide Q2 2019

Here are the highlihts: "2 INTRODUCTION Aircraft Evaluation Groups (AEG) are responsible for working with aircraft manufacturers and modifiers during the development and Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) certification of new and modified aircraft to determine: 1) the pilot type rating; 2) f...

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by 7BOEING7
Fri May 10, 2019 12:15 am
Forum: Military Aviation & Space Flight
Topic: US Approves P-8 Sale To UK
Replies: 50
Views: 14920

Re: RE: US Approves P-8 Sale To UK

Quoting Max Q (Reply 7): How significant / important is the MAD boom, all the older ASW platforms had it, why has it been deleted on all but the IAF aircraft ? My understanding is they aren't that significant anymore as many submarines have various levels of demagnetizing designed into them. Plus i...

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by 7BOEING7
Thu May 09, 2019 4:02 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Boeing 737MAX Grounded Worldwide Q2 2019
Replies: 3768
Views: 385282

Re: Boeing 737MAX Grounded Worldwide Q2 2019

The airpseed unreliable checklist for the 737 has been criticized more than once in the past: For example: http://www.aaiu.ie/sites/default/files/report-attachments/REPORT%202013-017.pdf And here is a QRH handbook for a NG http://www.737ng.co.uk/737-800%20Quick%20Reference%20Handbook%20%28QRH%29.pd...

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by 7BOEING7
Thu May 09, 2019 12:12 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Boeing 737MAX Grounded Worldwide Q2 2019
Replies: 3768
Views: 385282

Re: Boeing 737MAX Grounded Worldwide Q2 2019

Yes, they could have gone to the "Airspeed Unreliable" drill immediately at Flaps 5 if they were willing to do it at about 1000' AGL. Cutting thrust back to 80% N1 and setting pitch at 10 deg would have kept them from overrunning the Flaps 5 placard It was an option and part of good "...

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by 7BOEING7
Tue May 07, 2019 4:58 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Boeing 737MAX Grounded Worldwide Q2 2019
Replies: 3768
Views: 385282

Re: Boeing 737MAX Grounded Worldwide Q2 2019

Your first two items contradict the IAS disagree checklist. So you are saying, they should have complied with one procedure but disobey the other. So you're arguing that ignoring the Boeing Procedure of not raising Flaps with an active stick shaker is OK, but changing power or pitch is not OK becau...

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by 7BOEING7
Tue May 07, 2019 3:42 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Boeing 737MAX Grounded Worldwide Q2 2019
Replies: 3768
Views: 385282

Re: Boeing 737MAX Grounded Worldwide Q2 2019

So much about the question, why the pilots have raised the flaps. There is nothing to criticize about raising the flaps when speed is approaching 250 quickly. So OldAeroGuy IMO is wrong calling the raised flaps a failure. If you look at the facts of the flight, ET302 did not approach 250 KIAS quick...

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by 7BOEING7
Tue May 07, 2019 3:30 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Boeing 737MAX Grounded Worldwide Q2 2019
Replies: 3768
Views: 385282

Re: Boeing 737MAX Grounded Worldwide Q2 2019

Good cut and paste (except for the digital airspeed) -- it would have been even better if you had shown the AOA DISAGREE hardly noticeable in the lower righthand corner (737NG). But, if you actually had a bad AOA the "red squares" would have probably extended from the bottom to the top of...

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by 7BOEING7
Mon May 06, 2019 9:35 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Boeing 737MAX Grounded Worldwide Q2 2019
Replies: 3768
Views: 385282

Re: Boeing 737MAX Grounded Worldwide Q2 2019

I think, they raised the flaps because after about a minute the PFD looked similar like this or even worse (with speed even deeper in the red area): https://flightzoomer.com/images/PFD737.jpg Good cut and paste (except for the digital airspeed) -- it would have been even better if you had shown the...

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by 7BOEING7
Mon May 06, 2019 6:37 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Boeing 737MAX Grounded Worldwide Q2 2019
Replies: 3768
Views: 385282

Re: Boeing 737MAX Grounded Worldwide Q2 2019

Wow! I didn't realize before how incredibly old are the mechanical flaps command design on the 737-8 MAX. Electric flaps command was developed almost 4 decades ago on the A310. For the 737-8 MAX, it look a bit like the pilots have to learn more than the engineers to compensate the very old design. ...

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by 7BOEING7
Mon May 06, 2019 1:21 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Boeing 737MAX Grounded Worldwide Q2 2019
Replies: 3768
Views: 385282

Re: Boeing 737MAX Grounded Worldwide Q2 2019

let me get this straight...the Lion Air plane crashes because of a malfunctioning AoA sensor, and they still do not deem it necessary to correct their mistake of having the disagree light disabled? An alert for a sensor failure that caused the crash that should be working? Not only that, but they d...

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by 7BOEING7
Sun May 05, 2019 10:13 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Miami Air 737 runway overrun into river at NAS Jacksonville
Replies: 247
Views: 41916

Re: Miami Air 737 runway overrun into river at NAS Jacksonville

I just really do not see how with the conditions we know now, two pilots agree to land on a non grooved runway during a thunderstorm with only 1 reverser. Good thing Skylease is hiring for these guys. :checkmark: Throwing some numbers together (compliments AVH) it looks like they were about 125,000...

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by 7BOEING7
Sun May 05, 2019 3:46 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Boeing 767 Production/Activity Thread - 2019
Replies: 223
Views: 44179

Re: Boeing 767 Production/Activity Thread - 2019

Are new build 767s now being fitted with LCDs at the factory? I saw a video of one being built a only a few years ago and it was still being fitted with CRTs. They’re doing the certification (see above) because this is the first one. The certification done for refit on 767’s in the fleet doesn’t ap...

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by 7BOEING7
Sun May 05, 2019 12:33 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Boeing 737MAX Grounded Worldwide Q2 2019
Replies: 3768
Views: 385282

Re: Boeing 737MAX Grounded Worldwide Q2 2019

No - I have always held lots of blame to go around - If I've had an Agenda it's to get people to realize that training has been lacking Worldwide and needs to be looked at - along with Boeing and the FAA training seems as efficient as it can be. It is hard, if at all possible, to train instant resp...

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by 7BOEING7
Fri May 03, 2019 8:26 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Boeing 737MAX Grounded Worldwide Q2 2019
Replies: 3768
Views: 385282

Re: Boeing 737MAX Grounded Worldwide Q2 2019

Boeing orginally intended, and presumably still intends, Max pilots to have their ongoing training and checks on NG simulators with no MCAS etc. If this is deemed unacceptable going forward, what is the production rate of Max sims? I think the likely hood of NG simulator being unacceptable for MAX ...

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by 7BOEING7
Fri May 03, 2019 8:06 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Boeing 737MAX Delivery/Production Thread - 2019
Replies: 371
Views: 104503

Re: Boeing 737MAX Delivery/Production Thread - 2019

I wonder what the ramp up in deliveries is going to look like once they are un-grounded. I imagine there are finite resources available to accomplish this! It would make sense to use external contractors then for painting etc if they don’t have the internal resources across the business. They would...

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by 7BOEING7
Fri May 03, 2019 12:41 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Boeing 737MAX Grounded Worldwide Q2 2019
Replies: 3768
Views: 385282

Re: Boeing 737MAX Grounded Worldwide Q2 2019

As for blaming the pilots for keeping thrust at 94% and overspeeding, wasn't auto-throttle engaged? And shouldn't that be configured to reduce thrust when maximum speed is reached? Since the thrust setting did not change throughout the flight the autothrottle either wasn't engaged for takeoff or wa...

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by 7BOEING7
Thu May 02, 2019 8:56 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Boeing 737MAX Grounded Worldwide Q2 2019
Replies: 3768
Views: 385282

Re: Boeing 737MAX Grounded Worldwide Q2 2019

"These pitch and power settings provide a simple reference setting for the crew to use for a short period of time while the initial steps of the checklist are accomplished. These settings do not ensure a level flight or constant airspeed at any particular altitude/airspeed/weight combination. ...

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by 7BOEING7
Thu May 02, 2019 7:52 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Boeing 737MAX Grounded Worldwide Q2 2019
Replies: 3768
Views: 385282

Re: Boeing 737MAX Grounded Worldwide Q2 2019

Neither airplane involved in the two crashes had the option installed that included the AoA disagree light. First, it' not a light, it's an amber message down in the lower righthand corner of the PFD (Primary Flight Display) and on the HUD. When you look up AOA DISAGREE in the QRH (its not a memory...

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by 7BOEING7
Thu May 02, 2019 4:26 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Boeing 737MAX Grounded Worldwide Q2 2019
Replies: 3768
Views: 385282

Re: Boeing 737MAX Grounded Worldwide Q2 2019

Reference the AoA sensor disagree lights and Southwest. Southwest is Boeings best customer and they are not happy campers right now. Neither are the pilots at Southwest. Southwest has even been talking to Airbus about the A220. I just wonder how Boeing is going to regain their trust Although the Ao...

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by 7BOEING7
Tue Apr 30, 2019 9:10 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Boeing 737MAX Grounded Worldwide Q2 2019
Replies: 3768
Views: 385282

Re: Boeing 737MAX Grounded Worldwide Q2 2019

The lawyers were right except it’s not a “light”. It’s just an alert message which if they had had time to look it up in the QRH just tells you that you might get one or two other alert messages. In the heat of battle (stick shaker going off) they wouldn’t have noticed any of those messages and woul...

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by 7BOEING7
Tue Apr 30, 2019 7:35 pm
Forum: Technical/Operations
Topic: AI completes dispatch with no alternate destination B787 flight
Replies: 42
Views: 6280

Re: AI completes dispatch with no alternate destination B787 flight

Back in the late '70's in 747 Performance Engineering at Boeing we used to do calculations for re-dispatch and double re-dispatch flights from the US to the far east. ICAO requires a 5% of trip fuel reserve/contingency amount which could be 15,000 lbs on along flight, so the object was to dispatch ...

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by 7BOEING7
Tue Apr 30, 2019 4:27 pm
Forum: Technical/Operations
Topic: AI completes dispatch with no alternate destination B787 flight
Replies: 42
Views: 6280

Re: AI completes dispatch with no alternate destination B787 flight

Back in the late '70's in 747 Performance Engineering at Boeing we used to do calculations for re-dispatch and double re-dispatch flights from the US to the far east. ICAO requires a 5% of trip fuel reserve/contingency amount which could be 15,000 lbs on along flight, so the object was to dispatch t...

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by 7BOEING7
Mon Apr 29, 2019 11:05 pm
Forum: Technical/Operations
Topic: Eyebrow windows
Replies: 56
Views: 5798

Re: Eyebrow windows

P-3 also had one, didn’t want to get lost in the middle of the Pacific. Worked great as a vacuum cleaner when we had to clean up the airplane after a long flight.

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by 7BOEING7
Mon Apr 29, 2019 4:11 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: B737MAX Grounded Worldwide Q1 2019
Replies: 6472
Views: 716094

Re: B737MAX Grounded Worldwide

Please go back and review the JT610 and ET302 FDR traces. MCAS is only active when Flaps are retracted. Before the Flaps are retracted, there were no "unexpected nose down forces". Retracting Flaps with an active stick shaker is contrary to Boeing operational procedures. If either JT610 a...

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by 7BOEING7
Mon Apr 29, 2019 3:31 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: B737MAX Grounded Worldwide Q1 2019
Replies: 6472
Views: 716094

Re: B737MAX Grounded Worldwide

Thanks a lot for the links. My takeaway is: ⋅ this is still all about the AoA disagree warning light ⋅ the articles wording convey the meaning that the AoA disagree warning was available on the NG ("... was included in previous versions of the 737 ...", "... a saf...

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by 7BOEING7
Mon Apr 29, 2019 4:17 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: B737MAX Grounded Worldwide Q1 2019
Replies: 6472
Views: 716094

Re: B737MAX Grounded Worldwide

[twoid][/twoid] , 2) Would not have seen the airspeed in the amber bar region/airspeed box flashing amber or heard the "AIRSPEED LOW, AIRSPEED LOW" voice alert (optional on the NG, don't know about the MAX), . Why would such a thing be optional? It’s not required for the safe operation of ...

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by 7BOEING7
Sun Apr 28, 2019 10:14 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: B737MAX Grounded Worldwide Q1 2019
Replies: 6472
Views: 716094

Re: B737MAX Grounded Worldwide

In one region of the flight test envelope, where a Pilot would have disregarded multiple policy and procedural steps, at an airspeed below BUFFET ALERT, AIRSPEED LOW, and stick shaker, there exists a regime where stick forces do not continue on a linear path as AOA increases. I’m trying to understa...

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by 7BOEING7
Sun Apr 28, 2019 5:12 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: B737MAX Grounded Worldwide Q1 2019
Replies: 6472
Views: 716094

Re: B737MAX Grounded Worldwide

AOA disagree is present on WN NGs, and was absent from the WN MAX until it dawned on someone after the Lion Air crash that it wasn't part of the WN package? Sheesh. I can see how that would be disturbing to, well, everyone. Or is it not on the NGs? Business Insider sort of implies that it is. At th...

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by 7BOEING7
Sun Apr 28, 2019 1:35 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: B737MAX Grounded Worldwide Q1 2019
Replies: 6472
Views: 716094

Re: B737MAX Grounded Worldwide

I don't think this thread should become a facts-only discussion. The board is for discussion. However, I do have a modest suggestion for participants and the moderators: if you find yourself making 10-15 posts per page, sometimes up to half of the content, could you perhaps slow down? You may belie...

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by 7BOEING7
Sun Apr 28, 2019 1:17 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: B737MAX Grounded Worldwide Q1 2019
Replies: 6472
Views: 716094

Re: B737MAX Grounded Worldwide

Don't know what "normal flight operating speeds" mentour was simulating, but based on my experience manually trimming the 737 (Jurrasic, Classic and Next Gen -- several hundred times) at altitudes from 15000ft to FL350 at "normal flight operating speeds" his simulation looked bo...

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by 7BOEING7
Sat Apr 27, 2019 11:37 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: B737MAX Grounded Worldwide Q1 2019
Replies: 6472
Views: 716094

Re: B737MAX Grounded Worldwide

If the manual trim works as advertised, the 737 can be safely flown home independent what happens on the electrical / automation system. Just switch everything off. What has to be determined for the 737 is the exact force needed to rotate the manual trim wheel in comparison with speed, altitude, tr...

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by 7BOEING7
Sat Apr 27, 2019 4:23 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Why are UA´s 777-300ER designated as 777-322ERs?
Replies: 71
Views: 12863

Re: Why are UA´s 777-300ER designated as 777-322ERs?

Aircraft are more modular and standardised these days. Back in the day TWA for example, had its flight deck switches installed to flip in the opposite direction to everybody else. Qantas had a shortened version of the 707-100 to allow for extra range. BA often had non standard galley's installed. A...

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by 7BOEING7
Sat Apr 27, 2019 1:33 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: B737MAX Grounded Worldwide Q1 2019
Replies: 6472
Views: 716094

Re: B737MAX Grounded Worldwide

Pilots are trained to handle stalls as part of there licensing they just don’t practise it in reality cause it can cause a lot of damage to a commercial jet ( mostly interior fittings).. IIRC the main concern is the excessive loads that could be put on the empennage during full stalls so they are g...

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by 7BOEING7
Thu Apr 25, 2019 2:07 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Ethiopian Airlines 737MAX crashes enroute to Nairobi Q1 2019
Replies: 5474
Views: 718368

Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737MAX crashes enroute to Nairobi

Unless it is different that the one I found posted online for the NG, the Runaway Stabilizer NNC is I see your point. Just for reference, here is the Runaway Stabilizer checklist for 737 MAX, from the ET302 Prelim Report Appendix 3. There are some differences from NG, but nothing major. (Here is al...

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by 7BOEING7
Thu Apr 25, 2019 1:21 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Why are UA´s 777-300ER designated as 777-322ERs?
Replies: 71
Views: 12863

Re: Why are UA´s 777-300ER designated as 777-322ERs?

TWA has all the overhead switches go forward for OFF while everyone else specified forward ON, aft OFF. GF TWA (Two Worlds Apart) was the only US airline with that configuration, called the European Convention, but nowhere near the only airline. Most European airlines were configured that way as we...

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by 7BOEING7
Wed Apr 24, 2019 5:03 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Why are UA´s 777-300ER designated as 777-322ERs?
Replies: 71
Views: 12863

Re: Why are UA´s 777-300ER designated as 777-322ERs?

Another thing making customer codes less relevant was if an operator changed configurations the code would stay the same. MH early 744s were CF6-80 powered but at some point changed to PW4056 on later deliveries both aircraft were 747-4H6s but were fundamentally different configurations. NZ is anot...

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