Search found 690 matches

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • 14
by Loran
Thu Nov 29, 2018 4:18 pm
Forum: Non-Aviation
Topic: Should US Navy park several ships in Ukraine waters near Kerch Strait ?
Replies: 331
Views: 13105

Re: Should US Navy park several ships in Ukraine waters near Kerch Strait ?

Quite entertaining read in here. While I personally enjoy travelling to Russia and have various Russian friends, I do question the political path it is going. Looking back into the recent years, I wonder where there was any positive or progressive contributions to the world. It comes to mind: - Russ...

Jump to post
by Loran
Tue Nov 13, 2018 11:18 am
Forum: Travel, Polls & Preferences
Topic: 5Y-SAZ oldest jet airliner still used for PAX service?
Replies: 28
Views: 10721

Re: 5Y-SAZ oldest jet airliner still used for PAX service?

Didn't know russianplanes.net is back online, great to know. It was shut down a year ago or so.

Russia wouldn't be a candidate for old jet aircraft, there is a 40y age ban on commercial jet pax aircraft. Props are excluded, so still a couple of older Antonovs around.

Regards,
Loran

Jump to post
by Loran
Thu Nov 08, 2018 7:59 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: A220, (CSeries), Too Noisy for Zurich
Replies: 88
Views: 19299

Re: A220, (CSeries), Too Noisy for Zurich

however it is a bit odd that such a new engine design emits such a loud noise in certain instances Don't overlook the possibility that it could be something else than the engines. The design of the aircraft itself might cause it to act like a whistle, after all the air around the aircraft is bend i...

Jump to post
by Loran
Wed Nov 07, 2018 2:56 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: CRAIC CR929 discussion thread
Replies: 523
Views: 51473

Re: China, Russia unveil Widebody to compete with Airbus, Boeing

It's not ability to learn, it's ability to innovate that's the problem. In order to innovate you need free thinkers and an education system and society that encourages people to break the mold to defy rules. Tha tis completely foreign in China and until that changes, China will not be able to do an...

Jump to post
by Loran
Wed Nov 07, 2018 1:39 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: CRAIC CR929 discussion thread
Replies: 523
Views: 51473

Re: China, Russia unveil Widebody to compete with Airbus, Boeing

You do realize how many of those ARJ-21s are required to support the flight? Western aircraft are benchmarked on many fronts as failing any one costs an airline money. You do realize it was somehow certified without a production certification (that is just weird)? You do realize I was talking about...

Jump to post
by Loran
Wed Nov 07, 2018 11:56 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: CRAIC CR929 discussion thread
Replies: 523
Views: 51473

Re: China, Russia unveil Widebody to compete with Airbus, Boeing

All fair points, indeed. Since I'm not a pilot, but rather am just a flying aficionado, I was approaching the issue more from the perspective of a passenger. As a passenger, when selecting a flight, if faced with an option of a Boeing/Airbus versus a 'Made in China' airplane, I would actively avoid...

Jump to post
by Loran
Wed Nov 07, 2018 11:38 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: A220, (CSeries), Too Noisy for Zurich
Replies: 88
Views: 19299

Re: A220, (CSeries), Too Noisy for Zurich

I am one of the locally affected, I live only about 1km from the threshold of Rwy 28 which handles 90% of ZRH's departures. The C-Series is clearly the quietest plane around ZRH and a joy to (not) hear, except the described 'howl' when the engines spool up, during taxi and takeoff. Depending on wind...

Jump to post
by Loran
Wed Nov 07, 2018 11:35 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: A220, (CSeries), Too Noisy for Zurich
Replies: 88
Views: 19299

Re: A220, (CSeries), Too Noisy for Zurich

Double Post

Jump to post
by Loran
Mon Nov 05, 2018 11:17 am
Forum: Technical/Operations
Topic: Aircraft maintenance going downhill?
Replies: 42
Views: 4842

Re: Aircraft maintenance going downhill?

Agree that the article is a bit overly pessimistic. Fact is aviation has never been so safe as it is today. We see less accidents/incidents in a much larger fleet of aircraft. What the article doesn't say that even with all the FAA certified staff in the US, mistakes happened. I recall countless of ...

Jump to post
by Loran
Wed Oct 31, 2018 11:43 am
Forum: Travel, Polls & Preferences
Topic: Oldest flying passenger airliners
Replies: 27
Views: 5814

Re: Oldest flying passenger airliners

What a terrible piece of journalism, must have been researched from a total amateur without any aviation knowledge. Chances to end up on one of the mentioned airframes are very slim, either due to the aircraft being Cargo, owned by charter companies, having crashed or simply not flying any pax. Desp...

Jump to post
by Loran
Mon Oct 08, 2018 10:48 am
Forum: Travel, Polls & Preferences
Topic: LH‘s business class product to Cairo - a joke
Replies: 19
Views: 2278

Re: LH‘s business class product to Cairo - a joke

I find such business class product ok on the intra-Europe routes, but whenever flights go outside Europe I'd also want a proper C seat. LH now sends their A321s as far as Ashgabat / Baku, Cairo, Tel Aviv, not to mention the A319 to Pune. Must be painful on a red eye flight and wouldn't be my choice....

Jump to post
by Loran
Thu Sep 27, 2018 9:25 am
Forum: Non-Aviation
Topic: Trump laughed at by UN General Assembly
Replies: 121
Views: 7044

Re: Trump laughed at by UN General Assembly

We buy very few American cars because they are mediocre. But we do buy iPhones, use American web-services, the freakin cheese grater i bought a couple of days ago says "Made in the USA" on it. How would you possibly arrive at the conclusion that Germany refuses to buy American? And please...

Jump to post
by Loran
Wed Sep 26, 2018 7:42 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: 42 new international routes from Hainan
Replies: 14
Views: 5371

Re: 42 new international routes from Hainan

does anyone have further details on this? I'd be interested to read. I have a CAPA account, and the news article is just this without any specific details: Hainan Airlines reiterated (12-Sep-2018) the carrier and its subsidiary airlines will launch a combined 42 international services from Hainan w...

Jump to post
by Loran
Tue Sep 25, 2018 9:02 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Singapore Airlines takes delivery of first A350-900ULR from Airbus
Replies: 133
Views: 30883

Re: Singapore Airlines takes delivery of first A350-900ULR from Airbus

QueenoftheSkies wrote:
Assuming every seat on that plane is filled consistently.......unlikely.

So you seriously believe SQ's revenue management calculates its route profitabilities with a 100% load factor? :sarcastic:

Jump to post
by Loran
Thu Sep 20, 2018 10:37 am
Forum: Travel, Polls & Preferences
Topic: Your Boeing 747 history
Replies: 88
Views: 6067

Re: Your Boeing 747 history

Mine are as follows:

747 SP 3 (IR)
747-100B(SR/SUD) 3 (OX)
747-200B 9 (LH, UN)
747-200B(M) 2 (LH)
747-300 2 (QF, UN)
747-300(SCD) 2 (W5)
747-400 37 (BA, FJ, QF, NZ, TG, LH, OZ, KE)
747-400(D) 5 (NH)
747-400(ER) 1 (QF)
747-400(M) 3 (CA, OZ, BR)
747-800 1 (LH)
Grand Total 68

Jump to post
by Loran
Tue Sep 04, 2018 7:43 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: What do you guys think about the Comac ARJ21?
Replies: 62
Views: 9031

Re: What do you guys think about the Comac ARJ21?

While I share the views of most people in here, I wouldn't underestimate the ability of the Chinese to learn. Nevertheless I want to share a video I have made from an ARJ-21 flight last year on the first aircraft which was delivered: https://youtu.be/0jnnE79RGt4 Hope you can get a glimpse of what it...

Jump to post
by Loran
Tue Sep 04, 2018 7:34 am
Forum: Technical/Operations
Topic: AN-12 Cargo Aircraft Crew?
Replies: 15
Views: 2305

Re: AN-12 Cargo Aircraft Crew?

On Soviet era aircraft is behind the pilots positioned a flight engineer (or flight mechanic) whose task is to deal with throttles, flaps and landing gear in all phases of flight. Pilot flying gives commands to flight engineer what to do. Pilot's only task during flight is to steer the aircraft... ...

Jump to post
by Loran
Fri Aug 31, 2018 2:12 pm
Forum: Travel, Polls & Preferences
Topic: Which Airline Has The Most Planes Airborne/ % of Fleet at Any Given Time
Replies: 22
Views: 3666

Re: Which Airline Has The Most Planes Airborne/ % of Fleet at Any Given Time

Just read in my newsletter that Jet Airways claims to have the highest in industry B737 utilization of 13.98 FHs per day, which equates to just over 5'000 FHs p.a.. Thats usually a widebody figure, impressive indeed. European legacy narrowbodies usually don't get near 3'000 FHs p.a. and I doubt Ryan...

Jump to post
by Loran
Fri Aug 24, 2018 11:15 am
Forum: Technical/Operations
Topic: Lift loss caused by spoilers
Replies: 20
Views: 2705

Re: Lift loss caused by spoilers

Using simple logic, wouldn't the loss of lift correlate to the amount of span covered by the spoilers? Ergo, if the spoilers are 20% of the length of a straight wing, they will result in something like 20% loss of lift? Tapered wings would be a bit different obviously, but same basic principle, the...

Jump to post
by Loran
Thu Aug 16, 2018 10:01 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: BA1/2 (LCY-SNN-JFK-LCY) Quietly Cancelled?
Replies: 48
Views: 14702

Re: BA1/2 (LCY-SNN-JFK-LCY) Quietly Cancelled?

I'm booked on BA1 in mid-November, hope it'll last until then. This is my second attempt already, the first try was in March this year but the flight got cancelled 12h ahead due to the snow chaos in London. Ended up on a 6am Norwegian (Wamos Air A332) service from LGW to still get to the US, what a ...

Jump to post
by Loran
Wed Jul 04, 2018 2:42 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Interflug IL-62 Landing on a Grass Field???
Replies: 114
Views: 15680

Re: Interflug IL-62 Landing on a Grass Field???

Haha alright, fine, I’ll withdraw my near-disaster comment under protest. You are right about their rather robust gear. It wasn’t pretty, though. The first half had the makings of an accident, but I do actually think he did a good job of saving it. Like I said, I don’t think I’d have done any bette...

Jump to post
by Loran
Wed Jul 04, 2018 12:10 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Interflug IL-62 Landing on a Grass Field???
Replies: 114
Views: 15680

Re: Interflug IL-62 Landing on a Grass Field???

Absolutely! Minute 1:20 in the video is what gave me that impression. Bounce, porpoise, and a nose-down attitude with the ground lift system deploying. Check out the video of the Challenger crash in Aspen, CO. Are ground lift devices the spoilers? I only see them deploying *after* the bounce. Also,...

Jump to post
by Loran
Wed Jul 04, 2018 11:48 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Interflug IL-62 Landing on a Grass Field???
Replies: 114
Views: 15680

Re: Interflug IL-62 Landing on a Grass Field???

I appreciate the people asking that we not judge the pilot so harshly, but you absolutely cannot argue that *that* particular landing wasn’t nearly a disaster. Can you please elaborate what exactly made it a "nearly disaster"? I think most of the technical points have been clarified. I am...

Jump to post
by Loran
Wed Jul 04, 2018 10:54 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Interflug IL-62 Landing on a Grass Field???
Replies: 114
Views: 15680

Re: Interflug IL-62 Landing on a Grass Field???

Let's assume the pilot was Capt. Amazing... what about the ground side? No wind sock, no threshold or touchdown markings .... and how about marking the hazards, like the hump he landed on. And... he landed with a tailwind, downhill. Check out where the dust cloud goes at 1:50, after reverse thrust ...

Jump to post
by Loran
Tue Jul 03, 2018 9:20 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Interflug IL-62 Landing on a Grass Field???
Replies: 114
Views: 15680

Re: Interflug IL-62 Landing on a Grass Field???

A lot of speculations in here. I have been there a few years ago, it is well worth the visit. Here is some info I recall from my visit: There was a 14 months preparation time span until the aircraft finally landed. It wasn't a short-notice stunt which they tried out without thoroughly planning every...

Jump to post
by Loran
Fri Jun 22, 2018 10:47 am
Forum: Travel, Polls & Preferences
Topic: biggest Iran markets from Western Europe
Replies: 8
Views: 1004

Re: biggest Iran markets from Western Europe

I have quickly run the numbers through the schedule analyzer. The seat count for this week is: IKA-FRA: 3’178 IKA-LHR: 1’979 IKA-VIE: 1’899 IKA-CDG: 1’778 IKA-FCO: 1’416 IKA-MXP: 1’086 IKA-DUS: 752 IKA-ARN: 714 IKA-HAM: 522 IKA-GOT: 476 IKA-CGN: 455 IKA-MUC: 376 Seems Germany is by far the biggest m...

Jump to post
by Loran
Wed May 16, 2018 3:11 pm
Forum: Travel, Polls & Preferences
Topic: 100 types reached :)
Replies: 40
Views: 4442

Re: 100 types reached :)

Here's my list. They aren't all individual types, its just a download from my Excel list with sub-variants for Boeing & Airbus. In Flightmemory I don't have that level of detail. Boeing 707-300 (E-3A) Boeing 707-300(C) Boeing 717-200 Boeing 727-100(C) Boeing 727-100(F) Boeing 727-200/Adv Boeing ...

Jump to post
by Loran
Wed Apr 18, 2018 9:07 am
Forum: Site Related
Topic: How to remove photo from album
Replies: 17
Views: 15993

Re: How to remove photo from album

Hi there, will there be a 'edit photos in album' function anytime soon like it used to be on the old site?
I'd also like to delete, add, change the order of photos which was possible before the re-lauch of the site.

Thanks,
Loran

Jump to post
by Loran
Tue Apr 17, 2018 9:36 am
Forum: Travel, Polls & Preferences
Topic: Flying on an A340-500 today
Replies: 18
Views: 3361

Re: Flying on an A340-500 today

The three remaining passenger A345s are all configured the same way...J36-bar-Y201. The problem for this model is that it’s heavier than a 747. Umm, no? At least if we compare anything relatively modern variant of 747: 340-500 OEW: 170.4 t (376,000 lb) 747-400 OEW: 187.0 t (412,300 lb) 747-8 OEW: 2...

Jump to post
by Loran
Tue Apr 17, 2018 9:26 am
Forum: Travel, Polls & Preferences
Topic: Flying on an A340-500 today
Replies: 18
Views: 3361

Re: Flying on an A340-500 today

Unfortunately the French folks who created it might have retired and new hired think that the flying cucumber design called A350 is beautiful... Why do people always refer to Airbus being a French company? It clearly isn't. Ownership between Germany and France is equal, Spain has a lesser share. Al...

Jump to post
by Loran
Tue Apr 17, 2018 8:57 am
Forum: Travel, Polls & Preferences
Topic: is there somewhere in the world where smoking in commercial planes is still allowed for passengers?
Replies: 58
Views: 7009

Re: is there somewhere in the world where smoking in commercial planes is still allowed for passengers?

Further research shows Turkmenistan Airlines will "allow" smoking on pretty much any flight, including those two and from the UK. I am surprised considering Berdimuhamedow is the former health minister, and is a known anti-smoker and is planning to outlaw tobacco by 2025 as stated on Radi...

Jump to post
by Loran
Tue Apr 17, 2018 8:50 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: What all does a lease return entail?
Replies: 7
Views: 1100

Re: What all does a lease return entail?

In regards to components, the leasing companies usually have a clause which limits the component age to a certain percentage of the airframe age. In most cases it will say average of all components 110% and single components not older than 120% or 130% of the airframe. Meaning, an airline cannot sou...

Jump to post
by Loran
Wed Apr 04, 2018 8:23 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: DC8 T/O extremely late - near miss.
Replies: 15
Views: 2972

Re: DC8 T/O extremely late - near miss.

https://youtu.be/MWsgs3AArvc

Here's the view from the opposite side of the airport in better quality.

Regards,
Loran
-->

https://youtu.be/MWsgs3AArvc

Here's the view from the opposite side of the airport in better quality.

Regards,
Loran

Jump to post
by Loran
Wed Apr 04, 2018 6:45 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Swiss aviation thread - 2018
Replies: 399
Views: 58840

Re: Swiss aviation thread - 2018

phofmannsair wrote:
Hi Loran,

The P48 parking will be completely redone and closed for about a year after Ebace.

Regards, Patrick.

Thanks Patrick. So I shouldn't have had any hopes that it'll get back into airworthy condition :indifferent:

Cheers,
Loran

Jump to post
by Loran
Tue Apr 03, 2018 6:13 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Swiss aviation thread - 2018
Replies: 399
Views: 58840

Re: Swiss aviation thread - 2018

Noticed today that Genevas long-term resident L-1329 Jetstar-2 HB-JGK was moved to the other side of the airport.
Does anyone know what the reason was and plans exist to do with it in the future?



Thanks,
Loran

Jump to post
by Loran
Fri Mar 16, 2018 2:14 pm
Forum: Travel, Polls & Preferences
Topic: Finnair MD-11 Economy Seat Width
Replies: 4
Views: 895

Re: Finnair MD-11 Economy Seat Width

I once flew their MD-11 from HKG to HEL in 2007. While I can't tell you the seat width in Inches, I recall it was very tight, and on top the armrests were only half of the width of a regular configuration. My shoulder was constantly in touch with my seat neighbour. :crowded: On the good side there w...

Jump to post
by Loran
Mon Aug 21, 2017 2:29 pm
Forum: Non-Aviation
Topic: Thread for Mercedes (classic) car owners.
Replies: 28
Views: 1406

Re: Thread for Mercedes (classic) car owners.

Not 100% sure what the specific limitation was on the battery (total time or driving distance). Sadly I let the battery change here in Switzerland, so it was extremely expensive (CHF 500 approx. = USD 500), it would have been much less across the border in Germany. I wasn't happy with the repair cos...

Jump to post
by Loran
Mon Aug 21, 2017 10:58 am
Forum: Non-Aviation
Topic: Thread for Mercedes (classic) car owners.
Replies: 28
Views: 1406

Re: Thread for Mercedes (classic) car owners.

Sorry I meant the W212 Yes, I have a W212 E300 Hybrid Stationwagon, built 2013. It is the second series after the facelift. Happy with it so far, no problems at all after a good 25t km (81tkm on the clock), only the Hybrid battery had to be changed which had reached its life limit. Love the space t...

Jump to post
by Loran
Mon Aug 14, 2017 7:16 am
Forum: Travel, Polls & Preferences
Topic: Problems in finding old registrations
Replies: 14
Views: 1202

Re: Problems in finding old registrations

Hi George, sorry for my late reply and a big thanks for chasing my flights! Could you explain which website you used and how you retrieved the data? I struggled with the two websites I quoted in my initial post, it always says 'no results'. If I knew what I am doing wrong, then I wouldn't have to ha...

Jump to post
by Loran
Thu Aug 10, 2017 9:14 am
Forum: Non-Aviation
Topic: Thread for Mercedes (classic) car owners.
Replies: 28
Views: 1406

Re: Thread for Mercedes (classic) car owners.

Great topic! I own 4 Mercedes in total: ⋅ W123 230E (1983) with 123t km ⋅ W123 280CE (1983) with 75t km ⋅ W116 450SEL 6.9 (1978) with 119t km ⋅ W212/2 E300 Hybrid (2013) with 80t km (daily driver) Absolutely love each of them. The W123 is also considered as a ...

Jump to post
by Loran
Fri Aug 04, 2017 11:15 am
Forum: Travel, Polls & Preferences
Topic: Badly Named (Or Branded) Airlines.
Replies: 152
Views: 11020

Re: Badly Named (Or Branded) Airlines.

I think "SCAT" stands for Special Cargo Air Transport. I have flown on their An-24B, Shymkent to Almaty in 2010.

Jump to post
by Loran
Wed Aug 02, 2017 9:57 am
Forum: Travel, Polls & Preferences
Topic: Problems in finding old registrations
Replies: 14
Views: 1202

Re: Problems in finding old registrations

Sorry for moving this topic up.

No one out there who could help?

Thanks,
Loran

Jump to post
by Loran
Mon Jul 24, 2017 8:54 pm
Forum: Travel, Polls & Preferences
Topic: Problems in finding old registrations
Replies: 14
Views: 1202

Problems in finding old registrations

Hello all, I know this has been asked numerous times, and I have done some research in finding old registrations, however it seems I cannot get the results out of the common webpages such as http://www.libhomeradar.org/ or http://www.acarsd.org/. Every time I search it doesn't return any results. Wh...

Jump to post
by Loran
Mon Jul 24, 2017 4:24 pm
Forum: Travel, Polls & Preferences
Topic: Planes you have been with
Replies: 53
Views: 2855

Re: Planes you have been with

Here's my list ('+(WL)' or '+(SL)' means I have flown on both versions): Boeing 707-300 (E-3A Sentry) Boeing 707-300(C) Boeing 717-200 Boeing 727-100(C) Boeing 727-100(F) Boeing 727-200/Adv +(WL) Boeing 727-200(F)/Adv Boeing 727-200(F)/Adv(RE) Super 27 Boeing 737-200/Adv Boeing 737-200(C)/Adv Boeing...

Jump to post
by Loran
Sun Jul 16, 2017 12:10 pm
Forum: Travel, Polls & Preferences
Topic: What airlines have you flown on?
Replies: 76
Views: 3797

Re: What airlines have you flown on?

Here's my list with the most flown airlines at the top. Not all of them are airlines, the list also includes skydiving and flying clubs, companies or private owners. 1 Lufthansa  2 Swiss International Air Lines  3 Thai Airways International  4 Qantas Airways  5 Swiss European Air Lines  6 Swiss Glob...

Jump to post
by Loran
Sun Jul 16, 2017 10:53 am
Forum: Travel, Polls & Preferences
Topic: Any experience in booking Tajik Air's Khorog Service?
Replies: 1
Views: 415

Any experience in booking Tajik Air's Khorog Service?

Hi there, Anyone in here who knows how to book Tajik Air's An-28 service to Khorog and return? I will be there in early September. The flights have just been resumed after a few months Mi-8 and a total suspension. I know there's no online booking engine and you have to write your name down in a list...

Jump to post
by Loran
Sun Jan 22, 2017 9:16 am
Forum: Aviation Hobby
Topic: Successor of FSX?
Replies: 6
Views: 3374

Re: Successor of FSX?

Thanks very much for your replies, interesting to hear about these developments. Sounds like I should give P3D a try. When I used FSX, I didn't have that many add-ons. IIRC, it was the CLS DC-10, MyTraffic 2013, more realistic weather, a few sceneries such as Kai Tak and Quito, and small stuff like ...

Jump to post
by Loran
Tue Jan 17, 2017 9:47 pm
Forum: Aviation Hobby
Topic: Successor of FSX?
Replies: 6
Views: 3374

Successor of FSX?

Hi all, This may be a ridiculous question from your point of view, but I have to admit I lost track of what is the state-of-the-art flightsim software for a windows 10 PC? I've heard that Prepar3D is somewhat the best candidate? I have occasionally played FSX a couple of years ago and would like to ...

Jump to post
by Loran
Fri Nov 11, 2016 9:25 am
Forum: Travel, Polls & Preferences
Topic: Connection at FRA Question
Replies: 8
Views: 670

Re: Connection at FRA Question

Dude, I don't know how long will your connection take but I'm sorry for you. Anything over 1 hour at FRA is a nightmare. Can't find a worst and unfriendly airport for connections. Unless of course you're member of any Elite Club which gives you some VIP Lounge access, otherwise, try to avoid FRA, i...

Jump to post
by Loran
Fri Nov 04, 2016 10:34 am
Forum: Travel, Polls & Preferences
Topic: Bombardier CSeries - likes & dislikes
Replies: 17
Views: 2373

Re: Bombardier CSeries - likes & dislikes

Have flown only once on HB-JBA and from a passenger perspective I found it very good. What I don't like is this very noisy engine spool up sound. Not sure if it is from the geared fan. I live near the airport and every time a C-Series lines up on Rwy 28 I can hear it at home. I do not want to imagin...

Jump to post
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • 14