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by Finn350
Sun Mar 17, 2019 6:57 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Lion Air 737MAX8 Crashed Jakarta to Pangkal Pinang
Replies: 3187
Views: 610083

Re: Lion Air 737MAX8 Crashed Jakarta to Pangkal Pinang

You have misunderstood it. In that case you can add me to the list; I must have "misunderstood" it too. :o I just wish I could find the relevant posts upthread; I'm not certain what search criteria is needed to narrow it down from over 6000 posts It was in the thread about the NYT article...

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by Finn350
Sun Mar 17, 2019 6:55 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: B737MAX Grounded Worldwide Q1 2019
Replies: 6476
Views: 743624

Re: B737MAX Grounded Worldwide

https://www.insurancejournal.com/news/n ... 520773.htm
-->

Regarding punitive damages, the standard is whether they acted with a ‘conscious indifference’ to the safety of others. I suspect the bar is relatively high.

Source: https://www.insurancejournal.com/news/n ... 520773.htm

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by Finn350
Sun Mar 17, 2019 4:48 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Lion Air 737MAX8 Crashed Jakarta to Pangkal Pinang
Replies: 3187
Views: 610083

Re: Lion Air 737MAX8 Crashed Jakarta to Pangkal Pinang

In addition, MCAS engaged on both sides even though the AOA was faulty on the left side. From the Seattle Times article: "The black box data released in the preliminary investigation report shows that after this cycle repeated 21 times, the plane’s captain ceded control to the first officer. A...

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by Finn350
Sun Mar 17, 2019 4:30 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Lion Air 737MAX8 Crashed Jakarta to Pangkal Pinang
Replies: 3187
Views: 610083

Re: Lion Air 737MAX8 Crashed Jakarta to Pangkal Pinang

https://www.seattletimes.com/business/boeing-aerospace/failed-certification-faa-missed-safety-issues-in-the-737-max-system-implicated-in-the-lion-air-crash/ Aside of the FAA safety assessment activity delegation to Boeing scandal, I found this regarding MCAS: The original Boeing document provided t...

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by Finn350
Sun Mar 17, 2019 4:26 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: B737MAX Grounded Worldwide Q1 2019
Replies: 6476
Views: 743624

Re: B737MAX Grounded Worldwide

Has anybody heard any details on the new logic in the MCAS? I was reading the nytimes article on “lack of training”. It made a statement when the chief AA pilot was told of the new logic, he was satisfied. All I have heard is the MCAS only reacting once to a possible stall and some sort of indicato...

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by Finn350
Sun Mar 17, 2019 11:41 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: B737MAX Grounded Worldwide Q1 2019
Replies: 6476
Views: 743624

Re: B737MAX Grounded Worldwide

Based on the complaints by US pilots about lack of training and understanding of the new systems I have zero faith that ANY pilots have been adequately trained to deal with the new planes. As far as we can tell the official line is no training is even needed. Icelandair MAX pilots trained specifica...

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by Finn350
Sun Mar 17, 2019 11:16 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: 737Max Impact on 797 Launch
Replies: 133
Views: 20750

Re: 737Max Impact on 797 Launch

Again, the whole safety debate seems a bit overwrought as to airlines abandoning the MAX. .13 fatal crashes per million flights, and basically conducting half of the flights around the world in a huge segment for 50 years? Yeah, I am gonna go with “this will be fixed via software within a couple we...

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by Finn350
Sun Mar 17, 2019 9:24 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: 737Max Impact on 797 Launch
Replies: 133
Views: 20750

Re: 737Max Impact on 797 Launch

Boeing is under pressure and needs to resolve this MAX issue at the earliest. But do they already have all data, information, and comprehensive understanding what has happened to both flights? Boeing's and to a certain degree MAX's image is damaged, however it is recoverable. What is not recoverabl...

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by Finn350
Sun Mar 17, 2019 4:00 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Ethiopian Airlines 737MAX crashes enroute to Nairobi Q1 2019
Replies: 5479
Views: 741240

Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737MAX crashes enroute to Nairobi

There is a new article in reuters with few new details about the last moments of the doomed aircraft .. After one or two minutes, the voice on the air traffic control recording requested to remain on the same path as the runway and to climb to 14,000 feet, the source said. The aircraft’s ground spe...

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by Finn350
Sun Mar 17, 2019 3:46 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: B737MAX Grounded Worldwide Q1 2019
Replies: 6476
Views: 743624

Re: B737MAX Grounded Worldwide

It is possible and perhaps likely the investigation concludes the flying or ground crew in one or both crashes might be partially to blame. But if MACS was indeed involved, there is absolutely no outcome in which Boeing is not partially to blame also. No one will be blamed, as the objective of acci...

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by Finn350
Sat Mar 16, 2019 7:45 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: 737Max Impact on 797 Launch
Replies: 133
Views: 20750

Re: 737Max Impact on 797 Launch

I hold the opposite view. Until now, Boeing didn't have a clear-cut business case for the 797 (a.k.a NMA) because of the high development cost and limited market size. Now the recent 737MAX crashes have painfully shown that the 737MAX is at end of the road, and doing nothing risks their product por...

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by Finn350
Sat Mar 16, 2019 7:27 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: B737MAX Grounded Worldwide Q1 2019
Replies: 6476
Views: 743624

Re: B737MAX Grounded Worldwide

That makes sense assuming that specific training for max planes even exists? The fact that Boeing says no training is needed if you can fly NG makes you even wonder whether there has been any new training created for the max planes? Or they just use old training? I'm surprised I'm even asking the q...

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by Finn350
Sat Mar 16, 2019 7:12 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: B737MAX Grounded Worldwide Q1 2019
Replies: 6476
Views: 743624

Re: B737MAX Grounded Worldwide

Based on the complaints by US pilots about lack of training and understanding of the new systems I have zero faith that ANY pilots have been adequately trained to deal with the new planes. As far as we can tell the official line is no training is even needed. Icelandair MAX pilots trained specifica...

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by Finn350
Sat Mar 16, 2019 5:49 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: 737Max Impact on 797 Launch
Replies: 133
Views: 20750

Re: 737Max Impact on 797 Launch

I never believed Boeing would launch the 797 (because it would not have been a smart business decision) but in view of the MAX developments I absolutely do not see them going ahead with it in the near to medium term future at all. Boeing's focus and cash will be entirely consumed by the MAX events....

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by Finn350
Sat Mar 16, 2019 11:00 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Ethiopian Airlines 737MAX crashes enroute to Nairobi Q1 2019
Replies: 5479
Views: 741240

Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737MAX crashes enroute to Nairobi

What you're describing is the logical endpoint of a once-vibrant American (and global) aircraft-manufacturing industry which narrowed itself, at least in the Western world, to a duopoly and - in the USA - a monopoly. Monopolies create certain efficiencies but also certain dangers. The freight train...

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by Finn350
Fri Mar 15, 2019 10:40 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Ethiopian Airlines 737MAX crashes enroute to Nairobi Q1 2019
Replies: 5479
Views: 741240

Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737MAX crashes enroute to Nairobi

For 50 years, normal stall recovery procedures were perfectly adequate on prior aircraft, even when it came time to certify the NG. For some reason, that's not the case with the MAX. It's not really a "feature" Boeing added as an upgrade with the new plane or something - it's a requiremen...

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by Finn350
Fri Mar 15, 2019 9:20 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Ethiopian Airlines 737MAX crashes enroute to Nairobi Q1 2019
Replies: 5479
Views: 741240

Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737MAX crashes enroute to Nairobi

Way too much speculation going on from people without the proper expertise and hard facts from scene. Why can't we say "we don't know at this point?? As time has gone on I have continued to flesh out what *I* feel the chain of events is and to my mind now it starts before the take-off roll: 1)...

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by Finn350
Fri Mar 15, 2019 7:26 pm
Forum: Technical/Operations
Topic: Is it possible to downgrade B737MAX to 737NG?
Replies: 34
Views: 9859

Re: Is it possible to downgrade B737MAX to 737NG?

I hope the moderators will allow this silly question in the subject line. This is for the sake of asking more informed members of this forum about their technical expertise. What are the modification of B737MAX vs B737NG apart from the different engines and, obviously, attachment pads and interface...

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by Finn350
Fri Mar 15, 2019 7:04 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Ethiopian Airlines 737MAX crashes enroute to Nairobi Q1 2019
Replies: 5479
Views: 741240

Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737MAX crashes enroute to Nairobi

Based on the current information, the defective AoA vane is definitely a contributing factor. don't make things simpler than they are. What we know is that one downstream AoA value was wrong ( #1 showing offset vs .#2) AoA sensors, other sensors -> ADIRU -> downstream sinks ( for air data sets ). T...

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by Finn350
Fri Mar 15, 2019 6:35 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Ethiopian Airlines 737MAX crashes enroute to Nairobi Q1 2019
Replies: 5479
Views: 741240

Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737MAX crashes enroute to Nairobi

MCAS may have its issues and like all software it is work in progress Outch, Outch, Outch. This is not "beta test by user" stuff from Microsoft. This is a qualitycontrolled certfied piece of software. ( at least that is the requirement.) and small chance that this is due to bad production...

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by Finn350
Fri Mar 15, 2019 12:06 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: B737MAX Grounded Worldwide Q1 2019
Replies: 6476
Views: 743624

Re: B737MAX Grounded Worldwide

Putting up a link from Hindustan Times. Original article was from Bloomberg but if people are hitting the paywall, the full article is in this one. https://www.hindustantimes.com/world-news/clue-linking-mysterious-boeing-737-max-disasters-came-from-space/story-jxj0hMt6koypZpPtV5kq2J.html This artic...

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by Finn350
Fri Mar 15, 2019 7:57 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: B737MAX Grounded Worldwide Q1 2019
Replies: 6476
Views: 743624

Re: B737MAX Grounded Worldwide

http://www.boeing.com/assets/pdf/commer ... sensor.pdf
-->

ELBOB wrote:
smartplane wrote:
ALL FBW planes have three AoA sensors, or all Airbus FBW aircraft? Do some have four?


787 two


Interesting tidbit about the 787 left hand AoA sensor placement (and how sensors can become damaged)

http://www.boeing.com/assets/pdf/commer ... sensor.pdf

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by Finn350
Fri Mar 15, 2019 5:04 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Air France A380 engine blades disintegrates diverts to Abidjan
Replies: 37
Views: 19677

Re: Air France A380 engine blades disintegrates diverts to Abidjan

When was the last time a four engined aircraft crashed because of engine problems? I can't recall one in recent times. Latest must be AF4590, which was effectively a dual engine failure, albeit due to external causes. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_France_Flight_4590 There probably are no othe...

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by Finn350
Fri Mar 15, 2019 3:35 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: B737MAX Grounded Worldwide Q1 2019
Replies: 6476
Views: 743624

Re: B737MAX Grounded Worldwide

So the same software fix they've been working on since November is needed to be finished and tested before they can fly again. And FAA saying it's months from being complete! Must be an incredibly tough software fix with the amount of resource they could put behind it? It probably is the validation...

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by Finn350
Thu Mar 14, 2019 8:15 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: B737MAX Grounded Worldwide Q1 2019
Replies: 6476
Views: 743624

Re: B737MAX Grounded Worldwide

https://theaircurrent.com/aviation-safe ... e-737-max/ it works during taxi.


I doubt the correctness of that conclusion. AoA sensors are not expected to give correct readings while on ground - there is not sufficent air flow to measure.
-->

RickNRoll wrote:
According to this https://theaircurrent.com/aviation-safe ... e-737-max/ it works during taxi.


I doubt the correctness of that conclusion. AoA sensors are not expected to give correct readings while on ground - there is not sufficent air flow to measure.

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by Finn350
Thu Mar 14, 2019 7:48 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: B737MAX Grounded Worldwide Q1 2019
Replies: 6476
Views: 743624

Re: B737MAX Grounded Worldwide

From the Lion Air thread https://theaircurrent.com/aviation-safety/the-world-pulls-the-andon-cord-on-the-737-max/ Boeing has an OPTIONAL module that will warn the pilots while they are still on the ground that the AoA sensors are not in agreement with each other. MCAS depended on AoA being correct....

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by Finn350
Thu Mar 14, 2019 4:34 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: B737MAX Grounded Worldwide Q1 2019
Replies: 6476
Views: 743624

Re: B737MAX Grounded Worldwide

LTC8K6 wrote:
It will be leaked...


Not likely. Nobody has leaked the satellite ADS-B data, although several aviation accident organisations have it.

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by Finn350
Thu Mar 14, 2019 4:27 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Ethiopian Airlines 737MAX crashes enroute to Nairobi Q1 2019
Replies: 5479
Views: 741240

Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737MAX crashes enroute to Nairobi

My point about the FOs 200hr Total time is not about weather he or she did anything wrong or not. Even IF he or she did everything right my point is a 200hr total time pilot does not provide for the best possible outcomes for the fight and passenger. Most likely he or she didn’t do anything wrong. ...

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by Finn350
Thu Mar 14, 2019 6:08 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Ethiopian Airlines 737MAX crashes enroute to Nairobi Q1 2019
Replies: 5479
Views: 741240

Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737MAX crashes enroute to Nairobi

FR24 data is 3 first minutes of the flight ADS-B data only. There exists satellite based ADS-B data for the whole flight (on which the FAA Emergency Order is based),but that has not been made publicly available. https://aireon.com/services/global-air-traffic-surveillance/ True...but from reports, t...

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by Finn350
Thu Mar 14, 2019 5:53 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Ethiopian Airlines 737MAX crashes enroute to Nairobi Q1 2019
Replies: 5479
Views: 741240

Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737MAX crashes enroute to Nairobi

Still so much focus on MCAS. While there is always a chance that MCAS may be involved on some way, if the flaps are extended, MCAS is designed to be disabled...which means that the sensors which trigger MCAS, are irrelevant in this case, as would be their potential failure modes. If the flaps were ...

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by Finn350
Thu Mar 14, 2019 4:24 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Ethiopian Airlines 737MAX crashes enroute to Nairobi Q1 2019
Replies: 5479
Views: 741240

Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737MAX crashes enroute to Nairobi

hivue wrote:
Finn350 wrote:
I know they have first made the order and then cooked up the basis, but what could be aircraft's configuration discovered from the wreckage that would be basis for the similarity?


If it was cooked up what do you care?


Good point. It is cooked up better if it is based on facts, though.

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by Finn350
Thu Mar 14, 2019 4:22 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Ethiopian Airlines 737MAX crashes enroute to Nairobi Q1 2019
Replies: 5479
Views: 741240

Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737MAX crashes enroute to Nairobi

And even that is far from foolproof. You could have 100 and still have weird corner case failures. Not that I am defending a single point of failure system but one thing that people do have to remember is it's not just the cost of the part. It is all the maintenance that comes with adding even more...

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by Finn350
Wed Mar 13, 2019 9:53 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Ethiopian Airlines 737MAX crashes enroute to Nairobi Q1 2019
Replies: 5479
Views: 741240

Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737MAX crashes enroute to Nairobi

[*] There is no redundancy with 2 vanes. The only information you get is that they disagree. That's not very helpful. If you have 3 or 4 then you know which ones to use, which to disable and the whole set replaced on the ground. On the hull the fixings could hold dual vanes (of different types), so...

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by Finn350
Wed Mar 13, 2019 9:38 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: B737MAX Grounded Worldwide Q1 2019
Replies: 6476
Views: 743624

Re: Should airline regulators consider grounding B737 MAX series

Boeing has to compensate for all the losses this grounding has brought to different operators. Airlines have insurance that covers this. But no doubt they will try and get Boeing to pay the premiums, which are going to be ridiculously high. Boeing compensated airlines for the 787 battery problems. ...

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by Finn350
Wed Mar 13, 2019 9:27 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Ethiopian Airlines 737MAX crashes enroute to Nairobi Q1 2019
Replies: 5479
Views: 741240

Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737MAX crashes enroute to Nairobi

From the basis for the FAA order: ...On March 13, 2019, the investigation of the ET302 crash developed new information from the wreckage concerning the aircraft's configuration just after takeoff that, taken together with newly refined data from satellite-based tracking tracking of the aircraft's fl...

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by Finn350
Wed Mar 13, 2019 7:50 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Obscure airlines chartered for 737 Max grounding
Replies: 53
Views: 11817

Re: Obscure airlines chartered for 737 Max grounding

I wonder if this is really the safer way to perform the flights compared to flying using 737 MAX?

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by Finn350
Wed Mar 13, 2019 7:49 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Ethiopian Airlines 737MAX crashes enroute to Nairobi Q1 2019
Replies: 5479
Views: 741240

Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737MAX crashes enroute to Nairobi

https://aireon.com/services/global-air- ... veillance/
-->

This is the satellite solution through which complete flight path has apparently been obtained
https://aireon.com/services/global-air- ... veillance/

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by Finn350
Wed Mar 13, 2019 7:34 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: B737MAX Grounded Worldwide Q1 2019
Replies: 6476
Views: 743624

Re: Should airline regulators consider grounding B737 MAX series

We don't have to ponder any longer whether Boeing will launch 797. That will happen because of this debacle. Actually, I think it puts the 797 in great question. Boeing may well decide to move up their MAX replacement strategy and focus on a smaller design. It really depends on the fallout from thi...

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by Finn350
Wed Mar 13, 2019 7:16 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: B737MAX Grounded Worldwide Q1 2019
Replies: 6476
Views: 743624

Re: Should airline regulators consider grounding B737 MAX series

I have two naive questions since i'm just a spotter not an engineer a) How come Airbus with its Neo bigger engines isn't facing the same kind of problems with the MAX?(aside from the problems the engines have had)..What are the structural differences in this case that don't cause stability/stall/MC...

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by Finn350
Wed Mar 13, 2019 7:06 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: B737MAX Grounded Worldwide Q1 2019
Replies: 6476
Views: 743624

Re: Should airline regulators consider grounding B737 MAX series

dozerman wrote:
https://twitter.com/BoeingAirplanes/status/1105905132720406528

Looks like Boeing is the one who advised FAA to ground it, globally. Not Trump.


That is just optics. In reality it was rest of the world.

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by Finn350
Wed Mar 13, 2019 6:55 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Trump overrules FAA, grounds 737MAX
Replies: 24
Views: 3414

Re: Trump overrules FAA, grounds 737MAX

I probably could be called an Airbus fanboy, but even in my opinion the groundings are quite drastic compared to the actual safety hazard. Especially very short notices to the grounding.

Trump is probably delivering the message so that the FAA face can be saved.

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by Finn350
Wed Mar 13, 2019 5:39 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Ethiopian Airlines 737MAX crashes enroute to Nairobi Q1 2019
Replies: 5479
Views: 741240

Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737MAX crashes enroute to Nairobi

I know it is confusing but here are the facts: - every 737 MAX has dual, independent AoA vanes, one on each side of the nose - every 737 MAX has an MCAS implementation that uses input of only one of the AoA vanes, alternating side between each flight - what is an option on the 737 MAX is AoA Disagr...

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by Finn350
Wed Mar 13, 2019 5:31 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Ethiopian Airlines 737MAX crashes enroute to Nairobi Q1 2019
Replies: 5479
Views: 741240

Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737MAX crashes enroute to Nairobi

APA is saying US MAXes have dual, independent AoA vanes, one on each side of the nose. These vanes are compared to each other and if they don’t compare equally the AoA Disagree message is displayed on the PFD. The Lion Air CEO stated they don’t have the system that compares the two vanes. So, in th...

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by Finn350
Wed Mar 13, 2019 5:26 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Ethiopian Airlines 737MAX crashes enroute to Nairobi Q1 2019
Replies: 5479
Views: 741240

Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737MAX crashes enroute to Nairobi

Have we heard anything more about this "satellite data"? I haven't seen any mentions of it on this forum. This could be the next bit of data we're all waiting for. I'm curious how satellite data could even give any kind of information that could be used to make such a decision. It can't. ...

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by Finn350
Wed Mar 13, 2019 5:20 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Ethiopian Airlines 737MAX crashes enroute to Nairobi Q1 2019
Replies: 5479
Views: 741240

Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737MAX crashes enroute to Nairobi

I’ve received word that AA has notified their pilots that ALL US operated MAXes have a dual AoA system for redundancy. The Lion Air CEO has confirmed their delivered MAXes only had a single AoA system. No confirmation on the setup for the Ethiopian jets yet. Just another piece to the puzzle. ILL Th...

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by Finn350
Wed Mar 13, 2019 3:09 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Ethiopian Airlines 737MAX crashes enroute to Nairobi Q1 2019
Replies: 5479
Views: 741240

Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737MAX crashes enroute to Nairobi

I’ve received word that AA has notified their pilots that ALL US operated MAXes have a dual AoA system for redundancy. The Lion Air CEO has confirmed their delivered MAXes only had a single AoA system. No confirmation on the setup for the Ethiopian jets yet. Just another piece to the puzzle. ILL Th...

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by Finn350
Wed Mar 13, 2019 10:44 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Atlas Air 3591 Down in Trinity Bay, Texas
Replies: 1891
Views: 434504

Re: Atlas Air 3591 Down in Trinity Bay, Texas

The NTSB report is filled with clues that are worth picking apart rather than just focusing on it for confirmation of one's own theory, like the nitwits in the media have done. You learn about a turn directed by ATC which was executed, a quicker-than-usual descent requested by ATC which they were i...

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by Finn350
Wed Mar 13, 2019 10:29 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: B737MAX and Passenger stranded
Replies: 19
Views: 5820

Re: B737MAX and Passenger stranded

As I understand the EASA directive, there's nothing to prevent airlines returning MAX aircraft to their home or other maintenance bases as long as no passengers are on board. So no aircraft are necessarily stranded as long as the country they're currently in doesn't have more onerous restrictions, ...

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by Finn350
Wed Mar 13, 2019 7:03 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: B737MAX Grounded Worldwide Q1 2019
Replies: 6476
Views: 743624

Re: Should airline regulators consider grounding B737 MAX series

Do Other Boeing models have multiple AOA sensors with majority readings prevailing or do they also rely on a single sensor.? If other models have multiple sensors, what was the logic in "simplifying" the system in MAX.? 737MAX has two Angle-of-Attack sensors, but MCAS relies currently on ...

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