Search found 1838 matches

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by SomebodyInTLS
Sat Jun 29, 2019 10:38 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Boeing 737MAX Grounded Worldwide Q2 2019
Replies: 3768
Views: 411370

Re: Boeing 737MAX Grounded Worldwide Q2 2019

The CNN report claims there is an issue with the microprocessor that leads to the nose pointing down if the chip fails and this cannot be recovered quickly enough by pilots It almost seems to suggest that if the pilots could correct the problem quick enough it wouldn't be such a big thing? So, if y...

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by SomebodyInTLS
Sat Jun 29, 2019 10:15 am
Forum: Non-Aviation
Topic: Brexit part 6: Encore un moment Monsieur le Bourreau
Replies: 3167
Views: 189560

Re: Brexit part 6: Encore un moment Monsieur le Bourreau

This thread has become like the Tory leadership "race" for me - a colleague at work keeps reporting what stupid thing Boris or Hunt has said, but I don't care any more since every utterance has literally nothing to do with reality. It's come down to just ignoring the noise and waiting for ...

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by SomebodyInTLS
Thu Jun 27, 2019 9:29 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: The Atlantic Tackles MH370 Final Conclusions
Replies: 177
Views: 29936

Re: The Atlantic Tackles MH370 Final Conclusions

I DID NOT translate what i said into "malicious intent etc. etc."; YOU did that and started making accusations. Exactly what do you think the word "evasive" means? You tell me...for example "fighter pilot took evasive measures when a missile was launched" [interpreted ...

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by SomebodyInTLS
Thu Jun 27, 2019 2:10 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Boeing 737MAX Grounded Worldwide Q2 2019
Replies: 3768
Views: 411370

Re: Boeing 737MAX Grounded Worldwide Q2 2019

2. Boeing cannot realistically change the computing hardware within 24 months. They would have to re-certify the whole architecture (S/W and H/W). That would be an absolute nightmare scenario. Let's take a step back. Remember when everyone were shaking their heads how on Earth MCAS V1.0 found its w...

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by SomebodyInTLS
Thu Jun 27, 2019 12:19 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Boeing 737MAX Grounded Worldwide Q2 2019
Replies: 3768
Views: 411370

Re: Boeing 737MAX Grounded Worldwide Q2 2019

https://edition.cnn.com/2019/06/26/politics/boeing-737-max-flaw/index.html Havent seen it posted before... it seems a New flaw discovered on Boeing 737 Max. "In simulator tests, government pilots discovered that a microprocessor failure could push the nose of the plane toward the ground. It is...

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by SomebodyInTLS
Tue Jun 25, 2019 12:22 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: The Atlantic Tackles MH370 Final Conclusions
Replies: 177
Views: 29936

Re: The Atlantic Tackles MH370 Final Conclusions

747megatop wrote:
I DID NOT translate what i said into "malicious intent etc. etc."; YOU did that and started making accusations.


Exactly what do you think the word "evasive" means?

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by SomebodyInTLS
Mon Jun 24, 2019 1:03 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Air France delays A380 cabin refit; future of fleet under study
Replies: 147
Views: 23486

Re: Air France delays A380 cabin refit; future of fleet under study

Pretty much everyone says you can make money on A380 if you can always fill it, but very few can. Not that it means anything but I have flown the 380 twice on AF, to ABJ and JNB and all 4 legs were full to the roof. I know for a fact that there wasn't a single seat left on the ABJ-CDG leg because a...

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by SomebodyInTLS
Mon Jun 24, 2019 12:50 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: The Atlantic Tackles MH370 Final Conclusions
Replies: 177
Views: 29936

Re: The Atlantic Tackles MH370 Final Conclusions

Even if the flight path was a deliberate action by the pilot,there is still the question WHY? It doesn`t automatically have to be suicide. It could be an (unusual and rare) emergency or hijacking. If any pilot would commit suicide he would do it like 4U 9525 or MS 990 and not make it as complicated...

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by SomebodyInTLS
Mon Jun 24, 2019 12:44 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: The Atlantic Tackles MH370 Final Conclusions
Replies: 177
Views: 29936

Re: The Atlantic Tackles MH370 Final Conclusions

As mentioned before, you are looking for a rational reason why he would make it that complicated. If this was a pilot suicide (which was my conclusion from almost the first week once the flight path became known) You realise that Indicates a predilection to blame the pilot instead of keeping an ope...

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by SomebodyInTLS
Sat Jun 22, 2019 5:53 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: The Atlantic Tackles MH370 Final Conclusions
Replies: 177
Views: 29936

Re: The Atlantic Tackles MH370 Final Conclusions

According to the article in the Atlantic: “There has been a serious flaw in the scenario of pilot-directed (or other) hijacking. Had Zaharie really wanted to disappear his jet, he would not have made the sudden turn to the left -as the plane did- but to the right, where, flying over The South China...

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by SomebodyInTLS
Fri Jun 21, 2019 11:26 am
Forum: Non-Aviation
Topic: Brexit part 6: Encore un moment Monsieur le Bourreau
Replies: 3167
Views: 189560

Re: Brexit part 6: Encore un moment Monsieur le Bourreau

I think the EU deal on the north of Ireland is still available. And roughly speaking it says the goods on all of Ireland must be treated the same as the rest of Ireland (i.e., EU standards and tariffs). With that accomplished the UK deal with the EU will become much simpler. Conservatives are alrea...

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by SomebodyInTLS
Wed Jun 19, 2019 12:10 pm
Forum: Non-Aviation
Topic: Brexit part 6: Encore un moment Monsieur le Bourreau
Replies: 3167
Views: 189560

Re: Brexit part 6: Encore un moment Monsieur le Bourreau

I of course wouldn't vote for a Conservative party under Rory Stewart because he still wants to go ahead with Brexit, but he's much more palatable and on the ball that any of the others. The thing about Stewart is that he's the only person in the room who seems vaguely normal and moral. I liked tha...

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by SomebodyInTLS
Wed Jun 19, 2019 12:02 pm
Forum: Non-Aviation
Topic: Brexit part 6: Encore un moment Monsieur le Bourreau
Replies: 3167
Views: 189560

Re: Brexit part 6: Encore un moment Monsieur le Bourreau

Fun poll today: https://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/inlineimage/2019-06-17/Con%20party%20members%20Brexit%20sacrifices-01.jpg I guess scotland will be a bit surprised (not) :mrgreen: So basically no love for the country, they don't care what happens, but they absolutely hate Jerem...

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by SomebodyInTLS
Wed Jun 19, 2019 11:40 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: The Atlantic Tackles MH370 Final Conclusions
Replies: 177
Views: 29936

Re: The Atlantic Tackles MH370 Final Conclusions

He said, “Zaharie’s marriage was bad. In the past he slept with some of the flight attendants. And so what? We all do. You’re flying all over the world with these beautiful girls in the back. But his wife knew.” I wonder if they sleep with any of the guys in the back? Got money? Don't understand wh...

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by SomebodyInTLS
Wed Jun 19, 2019 11:37 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: The Atlantic Tackles MH370 Final Conclusions
Replies: 177
Views: 29936

Re: The Atlantic Tackles MH370 Final Conclusions

How about explaining all the deliberate and evasive maneuvering after the last contact with ATC? Then this theory can be even remotely entertained and picked up for further debate/discussion. When you start using words like "deliberate" with literally no evidence then you discount yoursel...

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by SomebodyInTLS
Wed Jun 19, 2019 11:34 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: The Atlantic Tackles MH370 Final Conclusions
Replies: 177
Views: 29936

Re: The Atlantic Tackles MH370 Final Conclusions

But it must be easier to plan a fake accident than going through all that! If you want to fake an accident surely it would be quicker and easier to do something like sabotage a hydraulic line in such a way as to look like failure. The more complicated, the more chance your plan will fail. You are t...

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by SomebodyInTLS
Tue Jun 18, 2019 4:51 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: The Atlantic Tackles MH370 Final Conclusions
Replies: 177
Views: 29936

Re: The Atlantic Tackles MH370 Final Conclusions

But this is simply wrong. It is your belief, not a fact. I can see other scenarios which would fit as well. If I latch onto one of those and state that the evidence doesn't support any other conclusion - where does that leave you? It's not my belief at all, it is the logical conclusion I've come to...

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by SomebodyInTLS
Tue Jun 18, 2019 4:37 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: The Atlantic Tackles MH370 Final Conclusions
Replies: 177
Views: 29936

Re: The Atlantic Tackles MH370 Final Conclusions

- if it was deliberate, no convincing rationale for such a bizarre sequence of events instead of e.g. just crashing into the sea or some building to make a statement There are lots of reasons to make a suicide look like an accident. Insurance is a big one. If he felt guilt over shacking up with a F...

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by SomebodyInTLS
Tue Jun 18, 2019 3:06 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: The Atlantic Tackles MH370 Final Conclusions
Replies: 177
Views: 29936

Re: The Atlantic Tackles MH370 Final Conclusions

My big problems with "pilot did it" are: - statistically highly unlikely (only one proven case and a couple of other suspected cases) - started by a journalistic character assassination based on that flight sim data and a Facebook image where he's brandishing a knife as a joke (yes, seriou...

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by SomebodyInTLS
Tue Jun 18, 2019 2:49 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: The Atlantic Tackles MH370 Final Conclusions
Replies: 177
Views: 29936

Re: The Atlantic Tackles MH370 Final Conclusions

So, let me re-phrase: there is tons of evidence that supports the conclusion that it was a deliberate action. Granted. Furthermore, the evidence (in total) doesn't support any other conclusion except that there was a deliberate action on behalf of a pilot. But this is simply wrong. It is your belie...

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by SomebodyInTLS
Tue Jun 18, 2019 2:31 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: The Atlantic Tackles MH370 Final Conclusions
Replies: 177
Views: 29936

Re: The Atlantic Tackles MH370 Final Conclusions

Conjecture IS NOT EVIDENCE! I used the word "literally" for a reason... It is factually incorrect to say that there is only one explanation to fit the circumstantial evidence... the point about the oxygen bottle above demonstrates an alternative scenario which can be made to fit the circum...

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by SomebodyInTLS
Tue Jun 18, 2019 12:20 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: The Atlantic Tackles MH370 Final Conclusions
Replies: 177
Views: 29936

Re: The Atlantic Tackles MH370 Final Conclusions

One thing I keep noticing about myself reading this, is how my first instinct is to side with the pilots and assume something just went terribly wrong (midair collision with a Malay military jet tearing open the cockpit window, fire on board, etc etc), but the home simulator has always perplexed me...

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by SomebodyInTLS
Tue Jun 18, 2019 12:07 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: The Atlantic Tackles MH370 Final Conclusions
Replies: 177
Views: 29936

Re: The Atlantic Tackles MH370 Final Conclusions

I've heard a fairly convincing story that the real culprit of this was not the Captain but the crew oxygen cylinder exploding. Apparently it was serviced prior to departure, perhaps overfilled or not tightened properly. An explosion of the crew oxygen cylinder would knock out various electrical bus...

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by SomebodyInTLS
Tue Jun 18, 2019 12:04 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: The Atlantic Tackles MH370 Final Conclusions
Replies: 177
Views: 29936

Re: The Atlantic Tackles MH370 Final Conclusions

I've heard a fairly convincing story that the real culprit of this was not the Captain but the crew oxygen cylinder exploding. Apparently it was serviced prior to departure, perhaps overfilled or not tightened properly. An explosion of the crew oxygen cylinder would knock out various electrical bus...

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by SomebodyInTLS
Tue Jun 18, 2019 11:50 am
Forum: Non-Aviation
Topic: Brexit part 6: Encore un moment Monsieur le Bourreau
Replies: 3167
Views: 189560

Re: Brexit part 6: Encore un moment Monsieur le Bourreau

I am not a Labour supporter, but since nothing was on TV last night I was trawling the channels when I stumbled across Tom Watson (Labour deputy) making a long speech that very strongly - and very convincingly - put the case of the EU being a very good thing indeed and that British values and standa...

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by SomebodyInTLS
Fri Jun 14, 2019 5:05 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: A380 was success for Airbus, says new CEO
Replies: 564
Views: 56522

Re: A380 was success for Airbus, says new CEO

SomebodyInTLS wrote: Which is still correct - despite one exceptional cancellation, ALL RLIs are set out as loans, not subsidies. Unless the program is a failure: Page 94 begins a discussion LA/MSF measures for the A350: 6.229. The amounts of funding disbursed by the French Government are to be rep...

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by SomebodyInTLS
Fri Jun 14, 2019 4:56 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: A380 was success for Airbus, says new CEO
Replies: 564
Views: 56522

Re: A380 was success for Airbus, says new CEO

SomebodyInTLS wrote: Fair enough, *ONE CASE* where only part of the *loan* was written off - but still within WTO rules. Oh please, all means ALL, no exceptions. Stop moving the goalposts. The *definition* of RLI is *by definition* a loan. That is the fact that I posited and which you continue to d...

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by SomebodyInTLS
Fri Jun 14, 2019 12:11 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Switzerland University EPFZ Creates Kerosene With Solar Panels
Replies: 5
Views: 650

Re: Switzerland University EPFZ Creates Kerosene With Solar Panels

Interesting - but my guess is that it will take a long while before they get litres of fuel on tap from a reasonably sized demonstrator. In the mean time electric storage and propulsion will probably have rendered it moot. It's hard to see how this process can be more efficient or useful than solar ...

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by SomebodyInTLS
Fri Jun 14, 2019 11:49 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: A380 was success for Airbus, says new CEO
Replies: 564
Views: 56522

Re: A380 was success for Airbus, says new CEO

Because it *IS* a loan and it *DOES* have to be fully paid back (within 17 years in the case of the A320 and same for the A380 IIRC). And then royalties continue to be coined by the governments for any further aircraft sold. You don't recall correctly: Airbus has taken a €463m charge for shutdown c...

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by SomebodyInTLS
Thu Jun 13, 2019 12:11 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: A380 was success for Airbus, says new CEO
Replies: 564
Views: 56522

Re: A380 was success for Airbus, says new CEO

But note that the article only ever talks about LOANS which SHOULD BE REPAID.

That is the fact which is constantly denied here and elsewehere.

Airbus seeking to cancel repayments is another matter.

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by SomebodyInTLS
Thu Jun 13, 2019 12:04 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: A380 was success for Airbus, says new CEO
Replies: 564
Views: 56522

Re: A380 was success for Airbus, says new CEO

You only forget to mention that Airbus had already paid a lot more than they originally had lent and that all parties involved agreed to lower the fee. How do you know that Airbus had already paid a lot more than they originally had lent to them? (And it's not a loan if you don't have to pay it bac...

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by SomebodyInTLS
Thu Jun 13, 2019 11:28 am
Forum: Non-Aviation
Topic: Brexit part 6: Encore un moment Monsieur le Bourreau
Replies: 3167
Views: 189560

Re: Brexit part 6: Encore un moment Monsieur le Bourreau

Dutchy wrote:
noviorbis77 wrote:
There will be a trade deal.

Regardless whether we chose to pay or not.


I know you want to try, but the underlining premise: "they need us more then we need them" is only believed by the most extreme Brexiteers.


QED...

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by SomebodyInTLS
Mon Jun 10, 2019 12:31 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Boeing 737MAX Grounded Worldwide Q2 2019
Replies: 3768
Views: 411370

Re: Boeing 737MAX Grounded Worldwide Q2 2019

Well I for one hope EASA do the right thing which is to lift the grounding if, and only if, they are completely satisfied with the fixes. How do you suggest they do that, have a MAX shipped to Europe by barge so that EASA personnel can verify and test everything? In this environment, it makes no se...

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by SomebodyInTLS
Wed Jun 05, 2019 9:55 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: A380 was success for Airbus, says new CEO
Replies: 564
Views: 56522

Re: A380 was success for Airbus, says new CEO

Did you even read the rest of what I wrote before you went with this kneejerk response? If not, I'll provide it again: I think the 748 was largely driven by Boeing's evaluation of the cargo business and discussions with customers in that space. The 748i wasn't a huge effort if they were going to be...

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by SomebodyInTLS
Wed Jun 05, 2019 9:14 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: AF447 - 10 Years Later
Replies: 96
Views: 18695

Re: AF447 - 10 Years Later

It appears the captain deliberately intended to ditch the 77E in some of the most remote areas of the Indian ocean in order to prevent anyone from ever finding the wreckage. Better tracking of planes in remote areas would have made it more difficult to make a plane disappear. Just like AF447 and do...

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by SomebodyInTLS
Wed May 29, 2019 5:46 am
Forum: Non-Aviation
Topic: Brexit part 6: Encore un moment Monsieur le Bourreau
Replies: 3167
Views: 189560

Re: Brexit part 6: Encore un moment Monsieur le Bourreau

The backstop is there for the freedom of movement of Irish citizens in respects to the GFA, remember respecting the GFA. Now that’s been sorted you are making assertions to something that is not there. A far as I know the backstop has nothing whatsoever to do with freedom of movement, since it conc...

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by SomebodyInTLS
Tue May 28, 2019 10:26 pm
Forum: Non-Aviation
Topic: Brexit part 6: Encore un moment Monsieur le Bourreau
Replies: 3167
Views: 189560

Re: Brexit part 6: Encore un moment Monsieur le Bourreau

What? You are pointing to the UK/ROI agreement with freedom of people aren't you? Now that is not what I asked. The backstop was because Ireland wanted it, now show us that Ireland is fine with it and doesn't want the backstop anymore. Please show us the shift in point of view. The backstop is ther...

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by SomebodyInTLS
Sat May 18, 2019 10:20 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Boeing 737MAX Grounded Worldwide Q2 2019
Replies: 3768
Views: 411370

Re: Boeing 737MAX Grounded Worldwide Q2 2019

Some more bad news: 737 MAX simulators don't properly simulate all the force needed to turn the trim wheels.... https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/17/business/boeing-737-max-simulators.html This is not a surprise, of course... Simulators are designed to reproduce expected behaviour, not unplanned beha...

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by SomebodyInTLS
Fri May 17, 2019 11:53 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Boeing 737MAX Grounded Worldwide Q2 2019
Replies: 3768
Views: 411370

Re: Boeing 737MAX Grounded Worldwide Q2 2019

Why is it that all the armchair pilots on here believe they know better than trained 737 pilots with years of experience? Because a lot of us are involved in design, manufacture, maintenance etc. and might therefore know a damned sight more than a 737 pilot! :rotfl: said no F1 designer / mechanic t...

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by SomebodyInTLS
Fri May 17, 2019 2:30 pm
Forum: Non-Aviation
Topic: Climate Change - Is aviation heading for a slump?
Replies: 96
Views: 10473

Re: Climate Change - Is aviation heading for a slump?

Just like the post I replied to Enilria showing indisputably how wind energy is both the cheapest form of energy and powers more than 15% of the UK with no harm to birds or massive amounts of human maintenance. Does that include the reserve power that has to be kept to account for variability? Some...

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by SomebodyInTLS
Fri May 17, 2019 2:26 pm
Forum: Non-Aviation
Topic: Climate Change - Is aviation heading for a slump?
Replies: 96
Views: 10473

Re: Climate Change - Is aviation heading for a slump?

To be blunt, a lot of the sources you cite are frankly unreliable. There's political bias at issue for one. To be blunt in return, I entirely disagree (and expected that the messenger would be shot when I posted). The "truth" - for want of a better word - is that all the political bias co...

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by SomebodyInTLS
Fri May 17, 2019 11:42 am
Forum: Non-Aviation
Topic: Climate Change - Is aviation heading for a slump?
Replies: 96
Views: 10473

Re: Climate Change - Is aviation heading for a slump?

Well I would love to say that I did actually give you many many links to proof, after spending to much of my working day researching it all for you, but inexplicably my post disappeared. How strange! Just like the post I replied to Enilria showing indisputably how wind energy is both the cheapest f...

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by SomebodyInTLS
Thu May 16, 2019 8:55 pm
Forum: Non-Aviation
Topic: Climate Change - Is aviation heading for a slump?
Replies: 96
Views: 10473

Re: Climate Change - Is aviation heading for a slump?

The economic benefits of using renewables is far greater than all the old technologies. WIND AND SOLAR ARE ALREADY CHEAPEST! Nuclear is by far the MOST EXPENSIVE way to generate electricity. Show me an economic cost-benefit analysis proving this, please. If wind and solar were the cheapest they'd o...

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by SomebodyInTLS
Thu May 16, 2019 1:56 pm
Forum: Non-Aviation
Topic: Brexit part 6: Encore un moment Monsieur le Bourreau
Replies: 3167
Views: 189560

Re: Brexit part 6: Encore un moment Monsieur le Bourreau

Of course I’m going to go for it — says @BorisJohnson about the Conservative leadership speaking at @BIBAbroker in Manchester #BIBA2019 source Well, well, Boris Johnson will take some responsibility for this at last? Although he will not be able to get a hard Brexit past parliament so we'll see wha...

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by SomebodyInTLS
Thu May 16, 2019 1:44 pm
Forum: Non-Aviation
Topic: Climate Change - Is aviation heading for a slump?
Replies: 96
Views: 10473

Re: Climate Change - Is aviation heading for a slump?

na wrote:
Worst are cargo ships anyway.


Electric ships are arriving as well... again, because it is becoming cheaper than fossil fuels for the operators...

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by SomebodyInTLS
Thu May 16, 2019 1:41 pm
Forum: Non-Aviation
Topic: Climate Change - Is aviation heading for a slump?
Replies: 96
Views: 10473

Re: Climate Change - Is aviation heading for a slump?

No, because climate change is an externality. The benefit (to themselves) of travel greatly exceed the negative impacts they (personally) will experience from climate change. And even so, how much does one plane ticket really contribute (by itself) to climate change? Not very much. So there's no re...

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by SomebodyInTLS
Thu May 16, 2019 1:34 pm
Forum: Non-Aviation
Topic: Climate Change - Is aviation heading for a slump?
Replies: 96
Views: 10473

Re: Climate Change - Is aviation heading for a slump?

1. Aviation is growing as fast as ever, right now even the take up of electric cars is small and in most cases isn't actually about climate change but other reasons such as the Tesla factor or efficiency. Plus with the majority of our electricity coming from coal anyway its not actually doing much....

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by SomebodyInTLS
Thu May 16, 2019 12:18 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Boeing 737MAX Grounded Worldwide Q2 2019
Replies: 3768
Views: 411370

Re: Boeing 737MAX Grounded Worldwide Q2 2019

(On the subject of discussing Boeing's problems instead of just blaming pilots)

Saintor wrote:
You are totally diverting the issue (and conveniently not answering basic questions).


[Read thread title... rolls eyes...]

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by SomebodyInTLS
Thu May 16, 2019 12:11 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Boeing 737MAX Grounded Worldwide Q2 2019
Replies: 3768
Views: 411370

Re: Boeing 737MAX Grounded Worldwide Q2 2019

InsideMan wrote:
Why is it that all the armchair pilots on here believe they know better than trained 737 pilots with years of experience?


Because a lot of us are involved in design, manufacture, maintenance etc. and might therefore know a damned sight more than a 737 pilot!

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by SomebodyInTLS
Tue May 14, 2019 5:27 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Boeing 737MAX Grounded Worldwide Q2 2019
Replies: 3768
Views: 411370

Re: Boeing 737MAX Grounded Worldwide Q2 2019

xmp125a wrote:
I am curious whether a very normal female of 1.6 cm and 50 kg would actually be able to handle 737 (MAX or NG).

Any thoughts or even data on this?


I'm pretty sure a 1.6cm person of any sort would find piloting a MAX tricky. How would they even get from the pedals to the top of the yoke? ;)

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