Search found 17159 matches

by zeke
Sat Apr 02, 2022 3:45 pm
Forum: Non-Aviation
Topic: Pilot caught taking pics of FA
Replies: 297
Views: 26184

Re: Pilot caught taking pics of FA

The First Amendment only prevents the government restricting your speech. A company can and will restrict speech. If you violate the company’s rules of conduct you can be fired for Just Case. It a crime to yell fire in a crowded movie theater, so there are restrictions on freedom of speech even by ...

Jump to post
by zeke
Sat Apr 02, 2022 2:43 pm
Forum: Non-Aviation
Topic: Pilot caught taking pics of FA
Replies: 297
Views: 26184

Re: Pilot caught taking pics of FA

The people arguing about the legality of this are missing the point entirely. People get fired all the time for doing things that are perfectly legal. What matters here is Delta's code of conduct and whether or not this action violates that. If his behavior violates their code of conduct then they ...

Jump to post
by zeke
Sat Apr 02, 2022 12:06 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: China Eastern 737-800 crashes in Guangxi, southern China
Replies: 1166
Views: 424466

Re: China Eastern 737-800 crashes in Guangxi, southern China

Apologies if this question may sound a little ignorant, but do local Chinese cockpit crews communicate with Chinese ATC in Mandarin or in English? It depends, could be either. While Russian and Chinese are official ICAO languages, in reality there is literally hundreds of dialects. Mandarin if ofte...

Jump to post
by zeke
Sat Apr 02, 2022 5:58 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: China Eastern 737-800 crashes in Guangxi, southern China
Replies: 1166
Views: 424466

Re: China Eastern 737-800 crashes in Guangxi, southern China

BTW, Reuters also reports that the CVR is now at NTSB's lab in Washington for downloading . Hope this news could dispel some of the transparency concerns. Also, don't know if that means that the FDR is in a better shape: Under the international investigation protocols, the NTSB is not allowed to re...

Jump to post
by zeke
Fri Apr 01, 2022 3:39 pm
Forum: Non-Aviation
Topic: Pilot caught taking pics of FA
Replies: 297
Views: 26184

Re: Pilot caught taking pics of FA

Posted on Twitter. A pilot was “seen” taking inappropriate pictures of a flight attendant. According to the account, he’s a Delta pilot. Was he hiding his cell phone infront of his kindle? I find it very odd someone is recording what they are recording, makes me suspect something happened before th...

Jump to post
by zeke
Thu Mar 31, 2022 5:32 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: LATAM A320 Emergency Landing at MDE Airport
Replies: 14
Views: 3753

Re: Emergency Landing at MDE Airport

The failure mode is designed to lock at 90 degrees which does keep the aircraft on the runway but there is an underlying issue that is requiring multiple aircraft to land with the gear locked. The B6 incident was 17 years ago. It is very rare, here is a recent summary of events and what was done to...

Jump to post
by zeke
Thu Mar 31, 2022 4:45 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: ICAO approves creation of Doha FIR
Replies: 14
Views: 4108

Re: ICAO approves creation of Doha FIR

lesfalls wrote:
Who were the other players then?


I seem to remember Bahrain, Jeddah, Tehran, Sharjah, and Muscat, been a while. A lot of flights back then went via Iran into Pakistan. These days we avoid Iran so we fly more south Pakistan over water control into Muscat, UAE, Bahrain etc

Jump to post
by zeke
Thu Mar 31, 2022 4:27 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Delta depressurization incident 3/28
Replies: 41
Views: 9333

Re: Delta depressurization incident 3/28

Exactly. The left pack failed on takeoff and at cruise the RT pack failed making it impossible to keep pressurization. With the failure of both packs the outflow valves (or whatever they are called on the 757) should close, the cabin altitude should only rise at a fairly small rate (circa 500 fpm),...

Jump to post
by zeke
Thu Mar 31, 2022 4:01 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Delta depressurization incident 3/28
Replies: 41
Views: 9333

Re: Delta depressurization incident 3/28

Boof02671 wrote:
The plane wouldn’t have been dispatched with a known problem that’s against the FARs.


On the A330 it is perfectly legal to dispatch with an inoperative pack under the MEL, I would be surprised if the 757 does not provide similar MEL relief.

Jump to post
by zeke
Thu Mar 31, 2022 3:51 pm
Forum: Technical/Operations
Topic: music/movie in cockpit on (ultra) long haul?
Replies: 20
Views: 3843

Re: music/movie in cockpit on (ultra) long haul?

Cockpit crew on very long flights, are they allowed to listen music / watch movies during their cockpit time? On very long flights there tends to be times where a pilot is on duty in the cockpit, and a time when they are off duty having their allocated rest. During their allocated rest it is perfec...

Jump to post
by zeke
Thu Mar 31, 2022 3:12 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: LATAM A320 Emergency Landing at MDE Airport
Replies: 14
Views: 3753

Re: Emergency Landing at MDE Airport

This is very similar to the B6 landing and has happened to multiple A320 series aircraft. Fortunately I believe they have all been able to land safely but clearly Airbus has a design flaw that thus far has been overcome by outstanding airmanship. This is different to B6 as the RAT is out in that ph...

Jump to post
by zeke
Thu Mar 31, 2022 2:54 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Airbus / Qatar A350 dispute - Airbus filed defence and counter-claim
Replies: 285
Views: 69166

Re: Airbus / Qatar A350 dispute - Airbus filed defence and counter-claim

The question revolves around the the long-term effects of the condition and if actually affects the structural performance of the composite material itself? This is where the argument of UV comes into the equation. This is incorrect, and seems to a fundamental misunderstanding many have. In order t...

Jump to post
by zeke
Thu Mar 31, 2022 5:12 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Airbus / Qatar A350 dispute - Airbus filed defence and counter-claim
Replies: 285
Views: 69166

Re: Airbus / Qatar A350 dispute - Airbus filed defence and counter-claim

From what has been reported, Qatar and the service provider contacted Airbus for technical assistance when they discovered the defect associated with the delaminating paint. News reports at the time suggested that this occurred only after the paint had been removed. “ However, when the aircraft was...

Jump to post
by zeke
Thu Mar 31, 2022 1:38 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Highly questionable rumor: 747 supertanker coming back?
Replies: 7
Views: 2629

Re: Highly questionable rumor: 747 supertanker coming back?

I definitely think a replacement should be in the works. Although I doubt it would be a 757 taking the full tank system from a 747 as the lengths are completely different... Either that or a 767 like Boeing is building for the KC46 could work. I never got to see the 747 land at SMX (Central Coast F...

Jump to post
by zeke
Thu Mar 31, 2022 1:07 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: China Eastern 737-800 crashes in Guangxi, southern China
Replies: 1166
Views: 424466

Re: China Eastern 737-800 crashes in Guangxi, southern China

Hierarchy here would be board integrity, package integrity, chip integrity. It gets harder to deal with the farther you have to disassemble, but you're right... the silicon is likely intact. You're talking a tiny bit of silicon, a few millimeters on a side. "Package" is sort of a catchall...

Jump to post
by zeke
Thu Mar 31, 2022 12:39 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Airbus / Qatar A350 dispute - Airbus filed defence and counter-claim
Replies: 285
Views: 69166

Re: Airbus / Qatar A350 dispute - Airbus filed defence and counter-claim

Aren't all orders in the name of Qatar Airways Group? Operator is Qatar Airways. IAG uses similar order / operator distinctions. Looking at the court records for the case HT-2022-000037 Qatar Airways QCSC v Airbus S.A.S (the A321neo case) Role Name Representative Claimant Qatar Airways QCSC Crowell...

Jump to post
by zeke
Wed Mar 30, 2022 2:15 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Airbus / Qatar A350 dispute - Airbus filed defence and counter-claim
Replies: 285
Views: 69166

Re: Airbus / Qatar A350 dispute - Airbus filed defence and counter-claim

Anyone interested in reading the source ramblings that the Bloomberg article is based upon, the Qatar filing can be read on this link https://sabercathost.com/eddN/2022_03_18_-_Reply_and_Defence_to_Counterclaim_Signed.pdf They have also updated their A321neo counter claim, interesting aspect is they...

Jump to post
by zeke
Wed Mar 30, 2022 12:14 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Russian Invasion of Ukraine - Civil Aviation Related *Discussion* Thread
Replies: 782
Views: 240208

Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine - Civil Aviation Related *Discussion* Thread

casinterest wrote:
The article did state that "funds" prevented a better backup plan. That would make me suspect issues around encryption and security as well.


Would not surprise me if they still used ArVid.

Jump to post
by zeke
Wed Mar 30, 2022 11:57 am
Forum: Technical/Operations
Topic: 787-8/9/10 Handling Characteristics
Replies: 1
Views: 1953

Re: 787-8/9/10 Handling Characteristics

Cannot really design them physically to handle them the same, however there is no reason why the FBW cannot be programmed to achieve similar handling that is totally transparent to the pilot.

Jump to post
by zeke
Wed Mar 30, 2022 11:10 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: ICAO approves creation of Doha FIR
Replies: 14
Views: 4108

Re: ICAO approves creation of Doha FIR

I think it goes way back when so many airlines before the 747-400 would go via BAH for a fuel stop.

Jump to post
by zeke
Wed Mar 30, 2022 2:11 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: China Eastern 737-800 crashes in Guangxi, southern China
Replies: 1166
Views: 424466

Re: China Eastern 737-800 crashes in Guangxi, southern China

Until you convince me otherwise (which is definitely possible given your well established credentials), I stand by my definition of TrueSpeed ("is there a better name for it"). I define TrueSpeed as the total speed relative to the WGS-84 ellipsoid. It is not TAS, we could do away with exp...

Jump to post
by zeke
Wed Mar 30, 2022 1:42 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Russian Invasion of Ukraine - Civil Aviation Related *Discussion* Thread
Replies: 782
Views: 240208

Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine - Civil Aviation Related *Discussion* Thread

I'd be willing to bet the hackers had inside knowledge to be able to effectively wipe out all of this data. No backup? That is just pathetic in this days and age. That is going to be destructive to Russian aviation , both internal and any international travel agreements. Maybe the attack was over a...

Jump to post
by zeke
Tue Mar 29, 2022 3:30 pm
Forum: Military Aviation & Space Flight
Topic: Antonov rolls out the first fully domestic An-178 transport
Replies: 10
Views: 3672

Re: Antonov rolls out the first fully domestic An-178 transport

Anyone have an idea where this has ended up since the invasion ?

Jump to post
by zeke
Tue Mar 29, 2022 3:27 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Russian Invasion of Ukraine - Civil Aviation Related *Discussion* Thread
Replies: 782
Views: 240208

Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine - Civil Aviation Related *Discussion* Thread

Aviation Sources in Russia report that Rosaviatsia fell victim to a hacker attack started on last Saturday (Mar 26th 2022), which wiped out their entire database and files consisting of 65 Terabytes of data including e-mail of 1.5 years, documents, aircraft registration data. No backup of these dat...

Jump to post
by zeke
Tue Mar 29, 2022 3:10 pm
Forum: Travel, Polls & Preferences
Topic: Will Cathay Pacific convert its 777x order to 787-10?
Replies: 11
Views: 2099

Re: Will Cathay Pacific convert its 777x order to 787-10?

I think that possibility had been discussed on here and even in the press previously.

Jump to post
by zeke
Tue Mar 29, 2022 2:37 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Delta depressurization incident 3/28
Replies: 41
Views: 9333

Re: Delta depressurization incident 3/28

NLINK wrote:
Not that big of deal. Crew did a great job. They went from 28,000 to 10,000ft in 7-8 minutes which they should do for safety.


That is a standard descent rate, 2500 ft/min, emergency descent would be 3 times higher.

Jump to post
by zeke
Tue Mar 29, 2022 2:34 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Cathay Pacific News and Discussion Thread - 2022
Replies: 87
Views: 13166

Re: Cathay Pacific to launch the world's longest flight ever

HKG to JKF going the other way over Alaska, skirting Russia airspace is quite a bit shorter, around 14,000km. Why would they fly the long way in this case? Prevailing winds? A number of factors come into play, I have done the flight over Alaska a number of times, I have also done flights which are ...

Jump to post
by zeke
Tue Mar 29, 2022 2:21 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: China Eastern 737-800 crashes in Guangxi, southern China
Replies: 1166
Views: 424466

Re: China Eastern 737-800 crashes in Guangxi, southern China

That is not correct. "Subtypes 1 and 2 are used to report ground speeds of aircraft. Subtypes 3 and 4 are used to report aircraft true airspeed or indicated airspeed. Reporting of airspeed in ADS-B only occurs when aircraft position cannot be determined based on the GNSS system. In the real wo...

Jump to post
by zeke
Tue Mar 29, 2022 8:11 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: China Eastern 737-800 crashes in Guangxi, southern China
Replies: 1166
Views: 424466

Re: China Eastern 737-800 crashes in Guangxi, southern China

Not true. You can't from public available data. But remember, this is a global network of ADS-B receivers. ADS-B messages do carry velocity data (IIRC, it's twice a second). ADS-B frames can carry all necessary speed info - IAS, TAS, GS (as calculated by plane). See: http://airmetar.main.jp/radio/A...

Jump to post
by zeke
Tue Mar 29, 2022 3:35 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: China Eastern 737-800 crashes in Guangxi, southern China
Replies: 1166
Views: 424466

Re: China Eastern 737-800 crashes in Guangxi, southern China

hongkongflyer wrote:
I am quoting the exact words of news report in Chinese, just to add the English translation according to this forum’s rules.


I searched for those EXACT words in Chinese, returned no results. It would have been easy to supply the link in the original post.

Jump to post
by zeke
Sun Mar 27, 2022 9:43 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: China Eastern 737-800 crashes in Guangxi, southern China
Replies: 1166
Views: 424466

Re: China Eastern 737-800 crashes in Guangxi, southern China

I don't know how they are using it the above post, but the definition of True Airspeed (TAS) is the speed relative to the air mass in which the aircraft is flying https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/True_airspeed#:~:text=The%20true%20airspeed%20(TAS%3B%20also,accurate%20navigation%20of%20an%20aircraft. ....

Jump to post
by zeke
Sun Mar 27, 2022 9:32 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: China Eastern 737-800 crashes in Guangxi, southern China
Replies: 1166
Views: 424466

Re: China Eastern 737-800 crashes in Guangxi, southern China

I found this well-made chart on Chinese social media. I contacted the author and got permission to post it on airliners.net. Parts of the original chart are in Chinese, and I have completed the English translation. Please correct me if you have trouble understanding certain words. Please do not rep...

Jump to post
by zeke
Sun Mar 27, 2022 9:25 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: China Eastern 737-800 crashes in Guangxi, southern China
Replies: 1166
Views: 424466

Re: China Eastern 737-800 crashes in Guangxi, southern China

According to the previous press conference of the National Emergency Response Headquarters, the second co-pilot of the flight was an observer, with a total flight experience of 556 hours. This arrangement is to help him establish and increase flight experience. 据国家应急指挥部此前新闻发布会介绍,此次飞行的第二副驾驶为观察员,总飞行经...

Jump to post
by zeke
Sun Mar 27, 2022 12:42 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: China Eastern 737-800 crashes in Guangxi, southern China
Replies: 1166
Views: 424466

Re: China Eastern 737-800 crashes in Guangxi, southern China

That means the earlier images posted by @cuisinart were of the CVR, because that was posted at 4:45am local (CST) time, so the FDR hadn't been found yet. Which is good news as well, because that CVR looked in great shape and not damaged. That gives credence to a commenter who said that the press co...

Jump to post
by zeke
Sun Mar 27, 2022 4:50 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: China Eastern 737-800 crashes in Guangxi, southern China
Replies: 1166
Views: 424466

Re: China Eastern 737-800 crashes in Guangxi, southern China

ShenzhenBay wrote:

The ELT recovered yesterday


There is normally multiple ELTs on an aircraft, a fixed on that normally sits in the ceiling space of the aft cabin and 1-2 portable ones crew can take with them in the event of a remote crash or ditching. The portable ones are often cylinderical.

Jump to post
by zeke
Sat Mar 26, 2022 1:42 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: China Eastern 737-800 crashes in Guangxi, southern China
Replies: 1166
Views: 424466

Re: China Eastern 737-800 crashes in Guangxi, southern China

I'd say the only two options we're left with are uncontained engine failure or foreign object impact. There is lots of possibilities including aeroelastic issues like flutter. From the last position in cruise to the last ADS-B position is around 14nm, 10 km is around 5.4 nm, they had covered 60% of...

Jump to post
by zeke
Sat Mar 26, 2022 10:50 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: China Eastern 737-800 crashes in Guangxi, southern China
Replies: 1166
Views: 424466

Re: China Eastern 737-800 crashes in Guangxi, southern China

He was doing observation only according to the news reporting If he was observing he was not under training, observing crew do not log any flight time. I have not see any news report to confirm that the CVR has been downloaded so they know where each pilot was seated, it is therefor premature to ma...

Jump to post
by zeke
Sat Mar 26, 2022 10:45 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: China Eastern 737-800 crashes in Guangxi, southern China
Replies: 1166
Views: 424466

Re: China Eastern 737-800 crashes in Guangxi, southern China

Is it though? They aren't traveling over there for vacation or a business meeting, they're traveling over there as government officials to investigate a major crash of one of the most used aircraft in the world. The NTSB are not investigating the accident, they are participating as an observer and ...

Jump to post
by zeke
Sat Mar 26, 2022 5:19 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: China Eastern 737-800 crashes in Guangxi, southern China
Replies: 1166
Views: 424466

Re: China Eastern 737-800 crashes in Guangxi, southern China

The third pilot on that flight was an observing pilot, likely on training A pilot under training sits at a control seat, not the jumpseat. It is normal to have an experienced FO on the jumpseat if there is an inexperienced FO under training so there is another person onboard that has completed trai...

Jump to post
by zeke
Fri Mar 25, 2022 6:53 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Airbus / Qatar A350 dispute - Airbus filed defence and counter-claim
Replies: 285
Views: 69166

Re: Airbus / Qatar A350 dispute - Airbus filed defence and counter-claim

Bloomberg reported 5 A350 operators were privately reporting surface problems as far back as 2016 on an Airbus internal message board. Airbus was most definitely aware of the problem, and most definitely did not acknowledge the problem existed until Bloomberg broke the story. Their attempts to pain...

Jump to post
by zeke
Fri Mar 25, 2022 2:04 am
Forum: Site Related
Topic: I've had two post's deleted recently.
Replies: 19
Views: 3243

Re: I've had two post's deleted recently.

Tugger wrote:
Please figure out a way to send the deleted post to the poster again.


ThT used to be a feature of Johan’s original sire, it was however at the time according to the mods very difficult to maintain.

Jump to post
by zeke
Fri Mar 25, 2022 12:10 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Airbus / Qatar A350 dispute - Airbus filed defence and counter-claim
Replies: 285
Views: 69166

Re: Airbus / Qatar A350 dispute - Airbus filed defence and counter-claim

The quote I want to see is where Airbus has said “no other airlines had paint issues which was a lie”. I know we have had paint peel on A350s, we also had paint peel on new 77Ws and 748s. QR have not in their court filings identified paint peel as one of their issues. I don’t understand how your quo...

Jump to post
by zeke
Thu Mar 24, 2022 4:58 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Airbus / Qatar A350 dispute - Airbus filed defence and counter-claim
Replies: 285
Views: 69166

Re: Airbus / Qatar A350 dispute - Airbus filed defence and counter-claim

You may recall when the QR A350 went for repaint in Ireland and surface degradation problems were found Airbus claimed the problem was specific to just that aircraft. According to the court documents the maintenance organization used a process to remove the paint that was not in accordance with the...

Jump to post
by zeke
Thu Mar 24, 2022 1:54 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Airbus / Qatar A350 dispute - Airbus filed defence and counter-claim
Replies: 285
Views: 69166

Re: Airbus / Qatar A350 dispute - Airbus filed defence and counter-claim

Reuters and Bloomberg didn't publish the source documents, however they covered the claims of both QR and Airbus and sought comments and responses from them both at every stage. Normal practice for parties before a court is not to make public comments. I found QRs conduct very odd, when they went o...

Jump to post
by zeke
Thu Mar 24, 2022 12:26 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Airbus / Qatar A350 dispute - Airbus filed defence and counter-claim
Replies: 285
Views: 69166

Re: Airbus / Qatar A350 dispute - Airbus filed defence and counter-claim

They are not obliged at all, but they did report on the matter and only published one filing in full and not the other. It is interesting in that this has to be kept in mind when reading the outputs of Leeham. Leeham has been the only organisation to publish not only their own analysis, also the so...

Jump to post
by zeke
Thu Mar 24, 2022 12:10 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Airbus / Qatar A350 dispute - Airbus filed defence and counter-claim
Replies: 285
Views: 69166

Re: Airbus / Qatar A350 dispute - Airbus filed defence and counter-claim

In QR’s eyes the planes do not meet the standards required and outlined in the contract, thus they are not breaching the contract by refusing to take them as Airbus has not fulfilled their contractual obligation yet. The airline cannot have that position as by their own court filings they refused t...

Jump to post
by zeke
Thu Mar 24, 2022 11:06 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Airbus / Qatar A350 dispute - Airbus filed defence and counter-claim
Replies: 285
Views: 69166

Re: Airbus / Qatar A350 dispute - Airbus filed defence and counter-claim

https://airwaysmag.com/airlines/qatar-d ... ach-claim/


Pretty hard to understand how they can deny that, they didn’t pick the aircraft up.
-->

xwb777 wrote:
QR denies Airbus contract breach claim

https://airwaysmag.com/airlines/qatar-d ... ach-claim/


Pretty hard to understand how they can deny that, they didn’t pick the aircraft up.

Jump to post
by zeke
Thu Mar 24, 2022 3:05 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: China Eastern 737-800 crashes in Guangxi, southern China
Replies: 1166
Views: 424466

Re: China Eastern 737-800 crashes in Guangxi, southern China

Those are good theories, but other articles have confirmed that the First Officer really did have 30,000+ hours experience. (I redacted their full names for privacy) I still have a lot of difficulty accepting someone with 40 years of flying in China has over 30k hours. The tempo of working 30-40 ye...

Jump to post
by zeke
Wed Mar 23, 2022 9:34 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: China Eastern 737-800 crashes in Guangxi, southern China
Replies: 1166
Views: 424466

Re: China Eastern 737-800 crashes in Guangxi, southern China

mxaxai wrote:
Who counts flight time in minutes??


Very common in Europe and in China. CAAC log flights in hours and minutes. When you have a spreadsheet with your flights in it is easiest to do all the summations in minutes and then use a display format to show hh:mm.

Jump to post
by zeke
Wed Mar 23, 2022 8:29 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: China Eastern 737-800 crashes in Guangxi, southern China
Replies: 1166
Views: 424466

Re: China Eastern 737-800 crashes in Guangxi, southern China

4. The captain had accumulated 6,709 flight hours total, the first officer 31,769 flight hours, the second officer 556 hours, all of them in good family relations. source: https://avherald.com/h?article=4f64be2f&opt=0 That’s a very unusual hour total for the FO, would have to have been flying f...

Jump to post