Search found 217 matches

by CowAnon
Sat Jun 13, 2020 5:16 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Embraer New Turboprop Aircraft News and Discussion Thread
Replies: 558
Views: 80572

Re: Embraer's has projects for a new turboprop plane [June/2020]

The Antonov An-70 entered service in 2015 for the Ukrainian armed forces. Whether it's faster than the A400M depends on which source you find. (One article says it can go up to Mach 0.8.) Unfortunately there's only one of them, and they can't build more until Ukraine either settles its differences w...

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by CowAnon
Wed Jun 10, 2020 1:14 am
Forum: Non-Aviation
Topic: The New River Gorge Bridge
Replies: 21
Views: 1934

Re: The New River Gorge Bridge

ArchGuy1 wrote:
Have you personally seen the New River Gorge Bridge?
No, I've never been to West Virginia, so I've only seen the pictures.

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by CowAnon
Tue Jun 09, 2020 9:21 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Embraer New Turboprop Aircraft News and Discussion Thread
Replies: 558
Views: 80572

Re: Embraer's has projects for a new turboprop plane [June/2020]

I think Embraer has witnessed that if you go head to head with Airbus or Boeing you better have a lot of time, political back-up and money. https://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z160/keesje_pics/Turbolineraircraftturboprop-1.jpg?t=1208899184 keesje So far Embraer has been smart enough to stay away th...

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by CowAnon
Tue Jun 09, 2020 7:41 am
Forum: Technical/Operations
Topic: Supersonic Engine effeciency
Replies: 15
Views: 3374

Re: Supersonic Engine effeciency

I've never ever seen a speed normalizes SFC. Is that even a thing? If a jet engine accelerates from 200 mph to 400 mph should I expect it's SFC to halve? If it goes from 1 mph to 0 mph should it's SFC go to infinity? BTW, I totally get that work = thrust * speed. SFC stays (approximately*) constant...

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by CowAnon
Tue Jun 09, 2020 7:07 am
Forum: Non-Aviation
Topic: The New River Gorge Bridge
Replies: 21
Views: 1934

Re: The New River Gorge Bridge

The New River Gorge bridge is much more impressive. https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/11/New_River_Gorge_Bridge.jpg/1280px-New_River_Gorge_Bridge.jpg The Marquam bridge is the ugliest bridge in Portland. It's not an arch, either. https://live.staticflickr.com/2211/2501776216_217...

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by CowAnon
Tue Jun 09, 2020 3:08 am
Forum: Non-Aviation
Topic: The New River Gorge Bridge
Replies: 21
Views: 1934

Re: The New River Gorge Bridge

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_longest_arch_bridge_spans I really like arch bridges. Unfortunately most of the new bridges seem to be of the cable-stayed style, which look okay, but I don't want all bridges to look like that. Here's the 2nd longest double-decker arch bridge in the world: http...

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by CowAnon
Sat May 30, 2020 11:48 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Building airports at the sea
Replies: 20
Views: 5752

Re: Building airports at the sea

Whenever somebody mentions putting an airport on the water, I always think about Tetrahedron City: https://66.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m53wy3TLte1r064gzo1_500.jpg (From the San Francisco Museum of Modern Art's Tumblr page .) Also, from The Lost Inventions of Buckminster Fuller (Part 3 of 3) : Tetrahe...

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by CowAnon
Wed May 27, 2020 3:07 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Development paths for new scope compliant aircraft.
Replies: 355
Views: 17791

Re: Development paths for new scope compliant aircraft.

The highest efficiently potential is with unducted fan engines. I think this only works with tail mounted engines. I wonder if US public will view these engines as unsafe, like turboprop engines. Are unduucted fans lighter per lb. of thrust produced? It seems logical that they world be without the ...

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by CowAnon
Sat May 16, 2020 9:39 pm
Forum: Technical/Operations
Topic: Transonic truss the solution for regional aircraft?
Replies: 22
Views: 3741

Re: Transonic truss the solution for regional aircraft?

Yes, financing will be a huge problem, and the 150-180 seat airplane market should be targeted before the sub-76-seat market. Though it's unlikely, it's not impossible that a developing/developed country starts throwing money into aircraft development. Same thing with billionaires, though currently ...

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by CowAnon
Fri May 15, 2020 8:36 pm
Forum: Technical/Operations
Topic: Transonic truss the solution for regional aircraft?
Replies: 22
Views: 3741

Re: Transonic truss the solution for regional aircraft?

(I'm no aeronautical engineer, but I'll add my thoughts anyway.) PICTURE: Boeing unveils trussed wing capable of jet speeds (FlightGlobal, 9 January 2019) Boeing achieved the improvement by tweaking the truss and the wing sweep. It has estimated such wings can reduce an aircraft’s fuel burn by 8-10...

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by CowAnon
Mon May 04, 2020 6:36 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Airbus announces € 1.36 billion net loss
Replies: 89
Views: 18798

Re: Airbus announces € 1.36 billion net loss

The engine is the result of trying to get a takeoff distance < 1000 m while also achieving M .72 at FL400 with 36 tons payload. The speed basically requires a turbofan while the STOL and rough field capability very much prefer a turboprop. So you get a very large unducted fan, sort of. And the gear...

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by CowAnon
Sun Apr 12, 2020 3:02 am
Forum: Technical/Operations
Topic: How difficult it is to upscaled GTF
Replies: 30
Views: 3602

Re: How difficult it is to upscaled GTF

Alternate link, without the paywall (I think): https://www.bloombergquint.com/business/airbus-reveals-plans-for-all-new-narrow-body-re-engined-a350. Just repeating what I've read on these boards, but it's supposedly much tougher to upscale a geared turbofan than to downscale one. The gearbox effici...

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by CowAnon
Sun Apr 12, 2020 2:46 am
Forum: Technical/Operations
Topic: How difficult it is to upscaled GTF
Replies: 30
Views: 3602

Re: How difficult it is to upscaled GTF

Yeah, drag and weight go up, but propoulsive efficiency and thermodynamic efficiency improve. Think of it this way: some lines go up and right, others go down and right. You add them all together, and get a U-shape, then pick the bottom of the U. This is obviously a slight simplification, but you g...

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by CowAnon
Tue Apr 07, 2020 10:55 pm
Forum: Technical/Operations
Topic: NMA/MOM/797 variant performance analysis
Replies: 151
Views: 14566

Re: NMA/MOM/797 variant performance analysis

@Fred: I got confused. Let me correct it for you. Embraer had to same situation, wanting to benefit from the high BPR Pratt GTF's they redesined the wing, using a seagull configuration. A radical, expensive modification from the E190 E1. https://www.aerotime.aero/upload/files/4-Embraer_E-Jet_front_...

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by CowAnon
Tue Apr 07, 2020 10:22 pm
Forum: Technical/Operations
Topic: How difficult it is to upscaled GTF
Replies: 30
Views: 3602

Re: How difficult it is to upscaled GTF

Sokes wrote:
If bypass ratios are increasing, isn't the advantage for the slower A330 more than for the faster B787?

Larger turbofan/cowling diameters don't require a reduction in cruise speed, so there's no further advantage or disadvantage for slower planes or faster planes.

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by CowAnon
Mon Mar 30, 2020 10:31 pm
Forum: Technical/Operations
Topic: How difficult it is to upscaled GTF
Replies: 30
Views: 3602

Re: How difficult it is to upscaled GTF

You also have to wonder about PW's level of commitment to a widebody GTF. When the current UTC CEO took over in 2014, he said they weren't going to create a new widebody engine. (UTC's merger with Raytheon closes on Friday, but the UTC guy will still be in charge.) PW sort of outlined an engine road...

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by CowAnon
Thu Mar 26, 2020 8:41 pm
Forum: Technical/Operations
Topic: How difficult it is to upscaled GTF
Replies: 30
Views: 3602

Re: How difficult it is to upscaled GTF

Alternate link, without the paywall (I think): https://www.bloombergquint.com/business/airbus-reveals-plans-for-all-new-narrow-body-re-engined-a350. Just repeating what I've read on these boards, but it's supposedly much tougher to upscale a geared turbofan than to downscale one. The gearbox efficie...

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by CowAnon
Tue Mar 10, 2020 5:09 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: MC-21 Development and Testing Thread
Replies: 598
Views: 164474

Re: MC-21 Development Thread

CFRP wing spar enables thinner wing with lower critical Mach number. Entirely realistic Do we have any other sources for the MC-21 using a higher cruise speed than 320/737? I would have expected them to prefer a lighter wing to a faster. A Russian newspaper article ( English translation ) from June...

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by CowAnon
Wed Mar 04, 2020 8:36 am
Forum: Technical/Operations
Topic: (Hypothetical) Water injection on high-bypass engine
Replies: 34
Views: 4726

Re: (Hypothetical) Water injection on high-bypass engine

...The designers considered using water injection with the water condensate from the exhaust: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cThIbDONerI http://www.ekip-aviation-concern.com/eng-b/1.shtml ... Here's a little more about the water/fuel mixture mentioned in the video (aquazine): http://www.oilru.com/...

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by CowAnon
Tue Mar 03, 2020 8:40 pm
Forum: Technical/Operations
Topic: (Hypothetical) Water injection on high-bypass engine
Replies: 34
Views: 4726

Re: (Hypothetical) Water injection on high-bypass engine

No, the ones done in the past were just less sophisticated, it is possible to do a water injection system with little or no smoke and overall performance improvements. Check this out: https://mdao.grc.nasa.gov/publications/SAE_H2O_Paper_7_20_04.pdf Thanks, that was an informative article. However, ...

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by CowAnon
Tue Feb 25, 2020 1:10 am
Forum: Travel, Polls & Preferences
Topic: Past possible orders
Replies: 30
Views: 2235

Re: Past possible orders

Back in the mid-late 1970's United had plans to order the proposed, Boeing 727-300. This was to have a lengthened fuselage to accomodate the same number of passengers (189) as the 707-300. It was to have a strengthened landing gear, higher fuel capacity, some aerodynamic tweaks and replacement of t...

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by CowAnon
Sat Feb 22, 2020 12:12 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Will there ever been a new greenfield major airport in the USA?
Replies: 144
Views: 15492

Re: Will there ever been a new greenfield major airport in the USA?

Here's an idea sure to be unpopular here (and for my career)... aviation is an inherently dated concept ripe for technological replacement. Hyperloop, or some iteration, stands to make much of commercial air travel obsolete. Short haul flights between major markets will disappear. What remains of a...

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by CowAnon
Thu Feb 20, 2020 11:37 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: MC-21 Development and Testing Thread
Replies: 598
Views: 164474

Re: MC-21 Development Thread

Found some interesting comparisons of the MC21 done by AFL against the A and B narrowbodies in their fleet. If this bird is reliable and gets a good support network it will give them a run for their money. MTOW, Seats, Avg. Fuel in kg/h, Fuel in grams per ASK https://cdn.aviaforum.ru/data/attachmen...

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by CowAnon
Thu Feb 20, 2020 1:47 am
Forum: Technical/Operations
Topic: (Hypothetical) Water injection on high-bypass engine
Replies: 34
Views: 4726

Re: (Hypothetical) Water injection on high-bypass engine

No, the ones done in the past were just less sophisticated, it is possible to do a water injection system with little or no smoke and overall performance improvements. Check this out: https://mdao.grc.nasa.gov/publications/SAE_H2O_Paper_7_20_04.pdf Thanks, that was an informative article. However, ...

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by CowAnon
Tue Feb 18, 2020 8:11 pm
Forum: Technical/Operations
Topic: NMA/MOM/797 variant performance analysis
Replies: 151
Views: 14566

Re: NMA/MOM/797 variant performance analysis

Really interesting stuff here, just want to ask a couple of things: SFC has been set to 0.49 in all scenarios, this is obviously a fuel consumption/thrust figure of some sort but how does it compare to other contemporary A/C? (A320neo/B787/A350/777X et al) From PD-14: New-generation engine for MC-2...

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by CowAnon
Tue Feb 18, 2020 7:43 pm
Forum: Technical/Operations
Topic: (Hypothetical) Water injection on high-bypass engine
Replies: 34
Views: 4726

Re: (Hypothetical) Water injection on high-bypass engine

If a water-injection system were to be installed on an aircraft high-bypass turbofan, where would the injectors be placed? My guess is probably in the core, just after the low-pressure turbine, or in the bypass duct. Probably not injecting it into the combustion chamber, as cooling the flame would ...

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by CowAnon
Mon Feb 17, 2020 2:24 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Help identifying this aircraft?
Replies: 17
Views: 5059

Re: What is this?

i found this odd pic on the internet. The caption says its a Boeing 7J7 1980,but i don't think that's what it is. Its pretty slick looking and i wounder if that tail would work.9291452040_d6387bf761_n.jpg It looks to me that you could take the 787 noise and flight deck on a narrow fuselage like a 1...

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by CowAnon
Wed Feb 12, 2020 9:00 pm
Forum: Site Related
Topic: Linking to news from a thread post
Replies: 0
Views: 1156

Linking to news from a thread post

Can you implement a feature so that when someone enters text like this within a thread posting: [newsid]123456[/newsid] The renderer finds the particular news item from within the a.net news feed (https://www.airliners.net/aviation-news) and displays the news item's title, source, and post time? Per...

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by CowAnon
Wed Feb 12, 2020 8:22 pm
Forum: Technical/Operations
Topic: Big engines planes (2030+) - how will look like?
Replies: 25
Views: 9626

Re: Big engines planes (2030+) - how will look like?

A Romanian flying saucer called ADIFO made headlines last year. It can supposedly fly at supersonic speeds. https://newatlas.com/adifo-flying-saucer-romanian/58999/ Airbus revealed its MAVERIC blended wing body concept yesterday. https://www.cnn.com/travel/article/airbus-blended-wing-maveric/index.h...

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by CowAnon
Thu Jan 23, 2020 7:18 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: A clean-sheet 50-90 pax Turboprop by Boeing Brasil Commercial-Embraer. Disruptive technologies needed ?
Replies: 120
Views: 15603

Re: A clean-sheet 50-90 pax Turboprop by Boeing Brasil Commercial-Embraer. Disruptive technologies needed ?

Leeham News also wrote recently about the Unducted Single Fan (USF), which GE and Leonardo are working on for the EU Clean Sky program. The USF has coaxial dual propellers like the GE's UDF, but the back propeller doesn't rotate - it just varies its pitch to capture the swirl energy from the front p...

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by CowAnon
Thu Jan 02, 2020 5:32 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Il-114-300 Prototype
Replies: 33
Views: 8167

Re: Il-114-300 Prototype

Specs are here: http://www.ilyushin.org/en/aircrafts/projects/6292/ https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news/air-transport/2014-09-16/russia-looks-resurrect-il-114 From the article: The Ilyushin’s empty equipped weight, at 16 tons, totals 3 tons more than that of the ATR 72-600; the Franco-Italian ai...

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by CowAnon
Sat Dec 21, 2019 7:34 am
Forum: Travel, Polls & Preferences
Topic: DC-9 Family What-Ifs
Replies: 19
Views: 3606

Re: DC-9 Family What-Ifs

As mentioned, the MD-88 flew after the MD-87 and before the MD-90. It was the same size as the MD-81/82/83, but with an upgraded cockpit and other small changes. Strangely enough, McDonnell Douglas offered a different MD-88 in early 1984 , which specified a 57-inch stretch and V2500 engines. The pro...

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by CowAnon
Mon Dec 09, 2019 1:19 am
Forum: Technical/Operations
Topic: The math behind twins.
Replies: 36
Views: 4515

Re: The math behind twins.

For starters, I am not questioning the math, that's been settled by people who are much more knowledgeable than myself. I am just trying to understand it. … For a twin, each engine needs to be powerful enough to operate the aircraft should the other fail, at the most vulnerable point in the flight....

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by CowAnon
Mon Dec 09, 2019 12:20 am
Forum: Travel, Polls & Preferences
Topic: Should Boeing have increased the range of the 717 instead of developing the MAX?
Replies: 24
Views: 1400

Re: Should Boeing have increased the range of the 717 instead of developing the MAX?

With the newest engines, could the 717 be stretched to approach the seating capacity of the MAX-8? There were at least 3 proposals from the 1980s: ⋅  MD-89: A 152-inch (12.7-foot) proposed stretch of the MD-80 using the V2500 and seating 173 passengers: https://www.flightglobal.com/Flight...

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by CowAnon
Mon Dec 02, 2019 9:02 am
Forum: Travel, Polls & Preferences
Topic: 8 hour layover tonight at midnight. Any ideas?
Replies: 7
Views: 991

Re: 8 hour layover tonight at midnight. Any ideas?

It's been a few years since I've visited Las Vegas, but you should probably stay away from the strip if you want a quiet place to sleep. And downtown, for that matter. If you just want to kill some time in a casino, Luxor's probably okay, but you'll also find lower minimums and maybe better odds off...

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by CowAnon
Sun Nov 17, 2019 9:30 pm
Forum: Technical/Operations
Topic: Coanda effect and propeller aircraft
Replies: 5
Views: 1155

Re: Coanda effect and propeller aircraft

Thanks everybody. I was thinking the An-70's design as described in that article would result in air smoothly coating the top of the wings, flowing off toward the wing tips (and helped by the downward slope in the outboard direction). Judging from your responses, it sounds like the flow is just smo...

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by CowAnon
Tue Nov 12, 2019 1:02 am
Forum: Technical/Operations
Topic: Coanda effect and propeller aircraft
Replies: 5
Views: 1155

Coanda effect and propeller aircraft

The DIE WELT article below mentions the Antonov An-70's application of the "Coanda effect," stating that its contra-rotating propellers blow air over the top of the wings to increase lift and reduce takeoff and landing distances. Does this use of Coanda help the aircraft during cruise phas...

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by CowAnon
Sun Nov 03, 2019 8:51 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Opinion: Airbus and how to move away from the A320 family
Replies: 100
Views: 19898

Re: Opinion: Airbus and how to move away from the A320 family

How to move away from the A320 family, the hard way: ⋅ Boeing builds a clean-sheet 2-2-2 or 2-3-2 configuration plane to replace the 737. ⋅ Right before the new Boeing plane reaches EIS, the FAA changes regulations to require that all passengers be no more than one seat away from...

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by CowAnon
Thu Oct 31, 2019 8:29 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: IndiGo places firm order for 300 A320neo family aircraft
Replies: 116
Views: 27238

Re: IndiGo places firm order for 300 A320neo family aircraft

I asked the question 5 months ago and no one answered, whats the fuel burn difference between P&W GTF and CFM? The table in the following link shows a cruise SFC for the LEAP of 0.51 kg/kgf-hr, vs. 0.52-0.53 for the GTF (MC-21 version). The article predates the EIS of those engines, though. htt...

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by CowAnon
Tue Oct 29, 2019 9:34 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: What happened to the Soviet Airliner manufacturers?
Replies: 47
Views: 9893

Re: What happened to the Soviet Airliner manufacturers?

The aircraft makers were consolidated in the previous decade into a large holding company, the United Aircraft Company, but the brands/divisions still mostly exist within that structure. https://leehamnews.com/2016/09/16/bjorns-corner-russian-civil-aircraft-companies/ Same thing occurred with the en...

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by CowAnon
Tue Oct 15, 2019 11:04 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: MD90 vs B737 Max
Replies: 50
Views: 10656

Re: MD90 vs B737 Max

Airlines liked the MD-90 so much that DL cancelled all but 37 of their 175 airplane order. AS cancelled their MD-90 order. AA got rid of their ex-QQ MD-90s as fast as they could and never ordered any, despite their huge MD-80 fleet. . HUH?? DL had 30 on firm order and only took 16. Then years later...

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by CowAnon
Tue Oct 01, 2019 11:00 pm
Forum: Technical/Operations
Topic: What's next for mainstream jet engines?
Replies: 56
Views: 19717

Re: What's next for mainstream jet engines?

In the Boeing 787 Deferred Production Cost thread (AKA the Boeing unique accounting system thread) someone made a comment to the effect of ‘well, you know, in 10-15 years they’ll have to roll out a 787neo variant’... that got me thinking, is that realistic? We started out with turbojets, then 1.5:1...

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by CowAnon
Wed Sep 25, 2019 4:17 am
Forum: Technical/Operations
Topic: What's next for mainstream jet engines?
Replies: 56
Views: 19717

Re: What's next for mainstream jet engines?

Open rotors have an efficiency curve. My Mach #s were for efficient cruise, derived partially from the data you reference. The latest efficiency curve comes from a GE paper (I think) earlier this decade (see Figure 17 below). Open rotor peaks at 87% for Mach 0.73, but only declines to a little less...

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by CowAnon
Mon Sep 23, 2019 5:07 pm
Forum: Technical/Operations
Topic: What's next for mainstream jet engines?
Replies: 56
Views: 19717

Re: What's next for mainstream jet engines?

Open rotors are neat, but slow. Turboprops are efficient, but limit cruise to Mach 0.6 or so Open rotors Mach 0.7 to maybe 0.72 When McDonnell Douglas ran the GE36 unducted fan on its MD-81 testbed aircraft in 1987-1988, it devoted 49 of the 137 test flights to cabin noise testing. 31 of those 49 f...

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by CowAnon
Mon Sep 16, 2019 11:02 pm
Forum: Technical/Operations
Topic: What is a maximum engine fan diameter on A350 & 787?
Replies: 23
Views: 4924

Re: What is a maximum engine fan diameter on A350 & 787?

From Clean Sky, The UHBR engine flight testing programme gathers momentum , January 21, 2019: https://www.cleansky.eu/the-uhbr-engine-flight-testing-programme-gathers-momentum https://www.cleansky.eu/sites/default/files/2018-12/ultra%20fan%20photo_0.PNG 3.55 meters = 139.8 inches. I'm assuming that ...

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by CowAnon
Wed Sep 11, 2019 8:53 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Boeing 777X Testing Thread - 2019
Replies: 1441
Views: 386272

Re: Boeing 777X Testing Thread - 2019

Since this was a cargo door, the windows would have no effect. Neither would the thinner sidewalls since the cargo door is below the floor and the windows and thinner sidewalls are above it. The only relevant change is changing the cabin altitude from 8,000 ft to 6,000 ft. What about the AlLi Fusel...

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by CowAnon
Wed Sep 11, 2019 6:57 pm
Forum: Technical/Operations
Topic: How will ultrafan seal the variable pitch fan?
Replies: 18
Views: 6973

Re: How will ultrafan seal the variable pitch fan?

There is a secondary benefit. In a variable-pitch fan, if designed correctly, the pitch can actually be reversed so that the engine is now blowing air forward. Propellers already do this. This means that you can get rid of about 500kg of thrust reverser mechanism on each engine. That's a lighter pl...

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by CowAnon
Sat Aug 31, 2019 8:01 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: The first Airbus A320 to break the 30-year in service mark
Replies: 259
Views: 102771

Re: The first Airbus A320 to break the 30-year in service mark

Wider isles Which was technically impossible in the past?? What I don't get:. GLARE and other fancy alloys helped save weight in the past, why are these not applied more to narrowbodies? Because Airbus blocks other OEMs from using GLARE just as well as it gets in its own way of using the material: ...

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by CowAnon
Sun Aug 25, 2019 7:22 pm
Forum: Technical/Operations
Topic: How will ultrafan seal the variable pitch fan?
Replies: 18
Views: 6973

Re: How will ultrafan seal the variable pitch fan?

If you do a news search of ultrafan "variable pitch" in DuckDuckGo, the most recent hit from a standard aviation media website is from 5 years ago, so I think it's safe to assume that variable pitch won't be a feature. Since Rolls Royce is targeting long-range engines with its first UltraF...

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by CowAnon
Tue Aug 20, 2019 10:41 pm
Forum: Technical/Operations
Topic: Big engines planes (2030+) - how will look like?
Replies: 25
Views: 9626

Re: Big engines planes (2030+) - how will look like?

The other is the Boxprop from Chalmers University of Technology in Sweden (https://www.chalmers.se/SiteCollectionDocuments/M2/Str%C3%B6mningsl%C3%A4ras%20workshop%202k18/1%20LindholmenWorkshop_presentation_20180821_v1.pdf). Pairs of blades in the forward-swept front propeller are attached at their ...

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