Search found 16662 matches

by zeke
Sat Dec 25, 2021 11:14 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: AS, UA, DL and others struggle to crew flights due to Omicron
Replies: 193
Views: 47523

Re: AS, UA, DL and others struggle to crew flights due to Omicron

kalvado wrote:
Uhm... Not really. Local newspaper reports "‘Striking’ increase in child hospitalizations as COVID surges"
And Xmas travel season likely involves more kids than average business-heavy Monday


That would be unvaccinated children ? Children 5 and above can be vaccinated.

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by zeke
Sat Dec 25, 2021 10:18 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: AS, UA, DL and others struggle to crew flights due to Omicron
Replies: 193
Views: 47523

Re: AS, UA, DL and others struggle to crew flights due to Omicron

Yes, of course they can be positive and be asymptomatic but they can easily infect many others, so being themselves being asymptomatic is of absolutely no relevance, nor is them being either healthy or fully vaccinated. Yet you are saying that they are justified in going to work??? Data I have seen...

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by zeke
Sat Dec 25, 2021 1:23 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: AS, UA, DL and others struggle to crew flights due to Omicron
Replies: 193
Views: 47523

Re: AS, UA, DL and others struggle to crew flights due to Omicron

IOW, it was too late to change and the full impact of the Omicron variant was yet to be realized. I think it is not reasonable to use the data from a country with low vaccination rate like South Africa to try and project what impact it will have on a highly vaccinated community like NA. I think the...

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by zeke
Sat Dec 25, 2021 11:21 am
Forum: Technical/Operations
Topic: Altimeters, static pressure, and lift
Replies: 48
Views: 2548

Re: Altimeters, static pressure, and lift

First, lift is caused by the differential pressure above and below the wing, the faster flow is on the upper surface, not the lower. Second static ports are placed in aerodynamically calm areas on the skin-there’s no lift, typically very flat surfaces. Whilst this is one of the popular reasons at f...

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by zeke
Sat Dec 25, 2021 11:08 am
Forum: Technical/Operations
Topic: Very basic question for pilots: How do airliners slow down when they are already at flight idle?
Replies: 31
Views: 3063

Re: Very basic question for pilots: How do airliners slow down when they are already at flight idle?

I imagine any pilot could answer this. At the bottom of the initial descent portion of a flight and when the wings are still clean and the power is at flight idle, how do you slow the aircraft down? Does an aircraft slow when it is leveled off? Raise the nose? I think someone told me that dumping t...

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by zeke
Wed Dec 22, 2021 3:16 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Updated: Airbus goes legal as Qatar Airways jet row escalates
Replies: 1232
Views: 206814

Re: Updated: Airbus goes legal as Qatar Airways jet row escalates

If Qatar says a QR plane is not airworthy QR can’t fly it no matter what airspace it is in. It doesn’t matter if it is exclusively flying GRU-EZE and never touching Qatar airspace. Well they can, and have. Think about how the aircraft got from the paint shop in Ireland to TLS. The document is calle...

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by zeke
Wed Dec 22, 2021 9:27 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Updated: Airbus goes legal as Qatar Airways jet row escalates
Replies: 1232
Views: 206814

Re: Updated: Airbus goes legal as Qatar Airways jet row escalates

tomcat wrote:
updated again when new aviation-related facts will surface.


I see what you did there ;)

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by zeke
Tue Dec 21, 2021 7:37 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Updated: Airbus goes legal as Qatar Airways jet row escalates
Replies: 1232
Views: 206814

Re: Updated: Airbus goes legal as Qatar Airways jet row escalates

There is a big difference between an interim fix (containment) while the root cause is being investigated.. Here slapping another coat of paint on a surface that has adhesion issues is hardly an effective repair and if that is what the repair manual calls for, I'd question the integrity of the cert...

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by zeke
Mon Dec 20, 2021 10:26 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Updated: Airbus goes legal as Qatar Airways jet row escalates
Replies: 1232
Views: 206814

Re: Updated: Airbus goes legal as Qatar Airways jet row escalates

This line of argument fails in the light of the MAX debacle. Now that they know an issue exists, they have stopped taking deliver, which reinforces the back end of your argument. I am on the fence in this situation. And believe it's all about money. Which has gone beyond any technical solution to t...

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by zeke
Mon Dec 20, 2021 9:56 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Updated: Airbus goes legal as Qatar Airways jet row escalates
Replies: 1232
Views: 206814

Re: Updated: Airbus goes legal as Qatar Airways jet row escalates

According to QR, Airbus has delivered planes that are not fit for use; you think they won't seek financial compensations for the time they had to pay the lease and been unable to use the plane? Pleeeeease... Please cite a source for the “delivered planes that are not fit for use” or withdraw the co...

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by zeke
Mon Dec 20, 2021 6:32 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Updated: Airbus goes legal as Qatar Airways jet row escalates
Replies: 1232
Views: 206814

Re: Updated: Airbus goes legal as Qatar Airways jet row escalates

Seems we've now gone well past that call for an independent legal assessment. That court is the same sort of venue as ILA, the case may not even go before a judge, it might be dealt by a recorder. In any case a large part of that court is doing arbitration, and by a single member which is a similar...

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by zeke
Mon Dec 20, 2021 6:25 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Updated: Airbus goes legal as Qatar Airways jet row escalates
Replies: 1232
Views: 206814

Re: Updated: Airbus goes legal as Qatar Airways jet row escalates

No. They’re saying the fix proposed does not stop the problem from happening again and if does then prove it. If you have the root cause why won’t you share it and show that it won’t come up again. The same airline had an aircraft recently that had a lateral excursion from the runway taking out som...

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by zeke
Mon Dec 20, 2021 5:55 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Updated: Airbus goes legal as Qatar Airways jet row escalates
Replies: 1232
Views: 206814

Re: Updated: Airbus goes legal as Qatar Airways jet row escalates

So they have basically admitted that they have had offers to fix this issue however they refuse to allow the repairs because they want to know the root cause. This is known as hinderance, like locking a builder out of a building site to make rectifications. Off the top of my head I cannot think of a...

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by zeke
Sun Dec 19, 2021 9:41 am
Forum: Technical/Operations
Topic: Which CAA’s allow A330/A350 and 777/787 common type ratings
Replies: 8
Views: 1234

Re: Which CAA’s allow A330/A350 and 777/787 common type ratings

Hong Kong also seems to think single pilot operation is acceptable on 300 passenger aircraft, another idiotic move. Hong Kong follows EASA on most things, under EASA rules the A330/A350 are the same type rating, same with the 787/777. Finnair was flying the A330/A350 as a single type. In the Middle...

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by zeke
Fri Dec 17, 2021 11:40 am
Forum: Technical/Operations
Topic: Cost of Radar
Replies: 2
Views: 1098

Re: Cost of Radar

About US$6 million for HKG

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by zeke
Fri Dec 17, 2021 5:58 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: 777X – VLA of the Future or another “White Elephant” A380
Replies: 390
Views: 49779

Re: 777X – VLA of the Future or another “White Elephant” A380

Have you done an engine type change on an A320? If not, why don’t we end this discussion with an agreement that while both the A320neo/ceo and 777X/-300ER have many similarities, they also have difference. Sure have, there is something like 47 engine types certified on the A320 series, with engine ...

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by zeke
Fri Dec 17, 2021 1:56 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: 777X – VLA of the Future or another “White Elephant” A380
Replies: 390
Views: 49779

Re: 777X – VLA of the Future or another “White Elephant” A380

The wing is not interchangeable because there’s this structure called a pylon. The pylon is not part of the wing, that is evidenced by any photo you care to look at of the wing assembly transportation to the FAL. Every engine type on the A320 has its own pylon. Been that case on the CEO as well. Th...

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by zeke
Thu Dec 16, 2021 9:33 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: 777X – VLA of the Future or another “White Elephant” A380
Replies: 390
Views: 49779

Re: 777X – VLA of the Future or another “White Elephant” A380

The non-engine parts on CEO and NEO are not 100% interchangeable. The parts on the 777-300ER and 777X are not 100% different. The wing on the CEOs being made at the same time as the NEOs were interchangeable, you could put the ailerons, flap, rudder, THS, vertical stab from onto the other. The gear...

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by zeke
Thu Dec 16, 2021 8:50 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: 777X – VLA of the Future or another “White Elephant” A380
Replies: 390
Views: 49779

Re: 777X – VLA of the Future or another “White Elephant” A380

You’re playing up the changes in the 777X while downplaying changes to the A320neo program. Negative, the A320CEOs that were built at the same time as the NEOs had the same fuselage, wing, gear, avionics, parts were interchangeable. The main difference was a different engine. The parts being used o...

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by zeke
Thu Dec 16, 2021 8:39 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: 777X – VLA of the Future or another “White Elephant” A380
Replies: 390
Views: 49779

Re: 777X – VLA of the Future or another “White Elephant” A380

Just in case it wasn't clear, I agree with Zeke that the 777X needs a much more thorough level of certification than the A320NEO. That is not what I was trying to say, just a different engine on an existing type is a lot more straightforward. The rules that was needed for that is the same rules tha...

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by zeke
Thu Dec 16, 2021 4:35 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: 777X – VLA of the Future or another “White Elephant” A380
Replies: 390
Views: 49779

Re: 777X – VLA of the Future or another “White Elephant” A380

And the US will accept Airbus's treatment of A321XLR as a derivative of A320neo which is a derivative of the 1980's "classic" A320, yet we're still allowed to discuss how good an airplane the A321XLR is without a bunch of people complaining. Just as much a "having your cake and eatin...

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by zeke
Wed Dec 15, 2021 10:15 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Updated: Airbus goes legal as Qatar Airways jet row escalates
Replies: 1232
Views: 206814

Re: Updated: Airbus goes legal as Qatar Airways jet row escalates

Force majeure would be defined in the purchase agreement and is almost certainly limited to “acts of God.” Manufacturing failures is not a force majeure, otherwise Boeing would have called this for the MAX (hint: they didn’t). There is no hardship or interference concepts that are meaningful here. ...

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by zeke
Wed Dec 15, 2021 8:07 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Updated: Airbus goes legal as Qatar Airways jet row escalates
Replies: 1232
Views: 206814

Re: Updated: Airbus goes legal as Qatar Airways jet row escalates

For those who say the Qatari regulators are doing the bidding of QR, lets step back and ask, why would QR want these frames grounded? As a bargaining chip to get better pricing for the next buy? To get Airbus to pay for the re-paint and the ongoing maintenance there of? I would think that QR would ...

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by zeke
Wed Dec 15, 2021 8:08 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Updated: Airbus goes legal as Qatar Airways jet row escalates
Replies: 1232
Views: 206814

Re: Updated: Airbus goes legal as Qatar Airways jet row escalates

QR has stated they aren’t interested in the 350F, two Airbus only has an agreement with ALC for seven planes. That is not an accurate account of the position at all times. By law of Airbus if has orders they would have to be listed and they don’t have to say who but it had to be on the books as an ...

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by zeke
Wed Dec 15, 2021 4:10 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Updated: Airbus goes legal as Qatar Airways jet row escalates
Replies: 1232
Views: 206814

Re: Updated: Airbus goes legal as Qatar Airways jet row escalates

Airbus does not have any agreement committing QR to the A350F. You do not know that for fact. The integrity of the paint system certainly is a warranty issue, which would be subject to compensation by Airbus. The exterior finish is covered by warranty however these aircraft have been in service so ...

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by zeke
Tue Dec 14, 2021 10:35 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Updated: Airbus goes legal as Qatar Airways jet row escalates
Replies: 1232
Views: 206814

Re: Updated: Airbus goes legal as Qatar Airways jet row escalates

It’s more complicated than that. Airbus would have to come up with (and able to justify) a financial figure from the damages. How much Airbus has actually been damaged by QR’s comments is a tricky question to answer. No other CAAs have grounded the plane. How many orders has Airbus lost because of ...

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by zeke
Tue Dec 14, 2021 5:51 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Updated: Airbus goes legal as Qatar Airways jet row escalates
Replies: 1232
Views: 206814

Re: Updated: Airbus goes legal as Qatar Airways jet row escalates

They can call it whatever they like, but much of the material is obviously not paint, including the copper mesh used for lightning protection. I guess if it makes everyone feel better to just label it "paint" or call it a "paint" problem so be it. If you were to get your house p...

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by zeke
Tue Dec 14, 2021 5:28 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Updated: Airbus goes legal as Qatar Airways jet row escalates
Replies: 1232
Views: 206814

Re: Updated: Airbus goes legal as Qatar Airways jet row escalates

At no point does Danny claims to be speaking for all operators, or that Al Baker is. A majority of the article outside the new quotes is just him recapping the recent Reuters article. You are reading way too much into the statements than what is required. Readers are expected to understand that one...

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by zeke
Tue Dec 14, 2021 5:01 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Updated: Airbus goes legal as Qatar Airways jet row escalates
Replies: 1232
Views: 206814

Re: Updated: Airbus goes legal as Qatar Airways jet row escalates

I'm not sure what your squabble is in this case, the reporter directly quoted AAB. If you really want grounds to be annoyed, he wrote "At least four Boeing 777s will come from Cathay Pacific"... You need to be a regular reader of Dannys articles to understand, his articles would never be ...

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by zeke
Tue Dec 14, 2021 4:42 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Updated: Airbus goes legal as Qatar Airways jet row escalates
Replies: 1232
Views: 206814

Re: Updated: Airbus goes legal as Qatar Airways jet row escalates

The EASA talks about multiple layers up from the composite, which include many substances other than just paint, and dubs it all a "paint system.". I wasn't aware copper mesh used for lightning protection was a component of paint, but according to the EASA it is. Go figure. You should be ...

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by zeke
Tue Dec 14, 2021 4:29 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Updated: Airbus goes legal as Qatar Airways jet row escalates
Replies: 1232
Views: 206814

Re: Updated: Airbus goes legal as Qatar Airways jet row escalates

Just because Airbus refused to comment or add more doesn’t mean the paper shouldn’t post Al Baker’s. A lot of information about the OEM products/sales/etc (both Airbus and Boeing) start out as leaks from customers to journalists. That’s a negotiation tactic. Danny is not known for posting those sor...

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by zeke
Tue Dec 14, 2021 4:14 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Updated: Airbus goes legal as Qatar Airways jet row escalates
Replies: 1232
Views: 206814

Re: Updated: Airbus goes legal as Qatar Airways jet row escalates

Qatar Airways says they expect to ground more A350’s and are currently looking at leasing a number of aircraft to cover the grounded aircraft AAB goes saying that he doesn’t know how they can work with Airbus again, says Airbus doesn’t care about its customers only it’s bottom line https://www.scmp...

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by zeke
Tue Dec 14, 2021 6:00 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Updated: Airbus goes legal as Qatar Airways jet row escalates
Replies: 1232
Views: 206814

Re: Updated: Airbus goes legal as Qatar Airways jet row escalates

I have been to several arbitration proceedings. They were not related to commercial aviation, however I can say in two of the three proceedings I attended the buyer, not the seller prevailed. That is why I was somewhat surprised when an earlier poster claimed arbitration proceedings are typically b...

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by zeke
Tue Dec 14, 2021 3:00 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Updated: Airbus goes legal as Qatar Airways jet row escalates
Replies: 1232
Views: 206814

Re: Updated: Airbus goes legal as Qatar Airways jet row escalates

So is this arbitrial tribunal set up by only one party in the dispute without the input of the other party? If Airbus has set up this tribunal how are they going to obligate QR to send a representative, since it has only one abitrator presumably paid by Airbus, what would QR expect if they choose t...

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by zeke
Mon Dec 13, 2021 11:12 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Updated: Airbus goes legal as Qatar Airways jet row escalates
Replies: 1232
Views: 206814

Re: Updated: Airbus goes legal as Qatar Airways jet row escalates

Independent legal assessment is not arbitration. And I do believe an independent legal assessment would be the opinion of whomever is giving them their assessment. I’ve prepared attended and presented arbitration cases in the airline industry over Collective Bargaining Agreements, and not once did ...

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by zeke
Mon Dec 13, 2021 9:42 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Updated: Airbus goes legal as Qatar Airways jet row escalates
Replies: 1232
Views: 206814

Re: Updated: Airbus goes legal as Qatar Airways jet row escalates

If Airbus was going to arbitration they would just stay so. Not saying “seeking a legal opinion”. They didn’t say they were seeking an opinion, the phrase they used was “independent legal assessment”. https://www.airbus.com/en/newsroom/press-releases/2021-12-airbus-preparing-for-an-independent-lega...

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by zeke
Mon Dec 13, 2021 7:10 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Updated: Airbus goes legal as Qatar Airways jet row escalates
Replies: 1232
Views: 206814

Re: Updated: Airbus goes legal as Qatar Airways jet row escalates

I have never seen an Airbus (or Boeing) contract with an arbitration clause. Unlike consumer contracts, which are not negotiable, every term in a purchase agreement is customized. Arbitration clauses are not in favor of buyers and would therefore never be accepted. I have, and I just posted a excep...

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by zeke
Mon Dec 13, 2021 6:35 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Updated: Airbus goes legal as Qatar Airways jet row escalates
Replies: 1232
Views: 206814

Re: Updated: Airbus goes legal as Qatar Airways jet row escalates

Further there´s a reference to English courts, which is often a clear signal that it´s arbitration we´re talking about. This is the wording in an A350 contract to a Chinese Airline “ 22.4 Law and Jurisdiction 22.4.1 This Agreement shall be governed by and construed in accordance with the laws of En...

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by zeke
Mon Dec 13, 2021 6:34 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Updated: Airbus goes legal as Qatar Airways jet row escalates
Replies: 1232
Views: 206814

Re: Updated: Airbus goes legal as Qatar Airways jet row escalates

Doesn't the the paint and tires have to be approved by the OEM? I get that they have different options, but I thought those options had to be approved? Maybe not specific brands, but rather a minimum standard that the paint and tires must meet or exceed? Airbus publishes a standard that needs to be...

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by zeke
Mon Dec 13, 2021 10:02 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: FAA to prohibit many flight operations due to risk of ‘5G’ wireless interference
Replies: 423
Views: 52972

Re: FAA to prohibit many flight operations due to risk of ‘5G’ wireless interference

Yesterday during a low visibility approach in CDG, the captain asked us passengers to turn off all electronic devices (not even on airplane mode). It was an EasyJet flight on a young A321neo. I noticed some concern among my fellow passengers before this new instruction. I told my worried neighbour ...

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by zeke
Mon Dec 13, 2021 9:54 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Updated: Airbus goes legal as Qatar Airways jet row escalates
Replies: 1232
Views: 206814

Re: Updated: Airbus goes legal as Qatar Airways jet row escalates

LTEN11 wrote:
You didn't answer my first question though, what would your opinion be if QR would come out vindicated about this ?


I would be very surprised. A350s are flying in so many jurisdictions monitored by different regulatory authorities and there is nothing else like this out there that I am aware of.

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by zeke
Mon Dec 13, 2021 7:43 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Updated: Airbus goes legal as Qatar Airways jet row escalates
Replies: 1232
Views: 206814

Re: Updated: Airbus goes legal as Qatar Airways jet row escalates

So you’re assumption is that an independent legal assessment will agree with Airbus and what is your opinion if the assessment agrees with QR ? I don’t think Airbus cares what the arbitrators decision is, the key I think for them to to know what the bar is that is required to be met and get this is...

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by zeke
Sun Dec 12, 2021 9:37 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Updated: Airbus goes legal as Qatar Airways jet row escalates
Replies: 1232
Views: 206814

Re: Updated: Airbus goes legal as Qatar Airways jet row escalates

Seems we're getting ahead of things. All Airbus's statement says is they are seeking an independent legal analysis. It's a pre-cursor to arbitration, but they haven't said they're invoking any contractual clauses. Am I ? The Airbus statement said “it has become necessary for Airbus to seek an indep...

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by zeke
Sun Dec 12, 2021 11:04 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Updated: Airbus goes legal as Qatar Airways jet row escalates
Replies: 1232
Views: 206814

Re: Updated: Airbus goes legal as Qatar Airways jet row escalates

Hence the arbitration (which is conveniently focused on the airworthiness aspect) will serve to close that door for Airbus. Arbitration is often included in commercial contracts these days as the agreed method of dispute resolution. The main advantage of the process is a resolution can be obtained ...

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by zeke
Sun Dec 12, 2021 5:57 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Updated: Airbus goes legal as Qatar Airways jet row escalates
Replies: 1232
Views: 206814

Re: Updated: Airbus goes legal as Qatar Airways jet row escalates

Look at photo 6, no amount of paint is going to smooth over that mesh sticking up. the fact that it is sticking up means it is not imbedded in the panel. looking again at the other photos none of the exposed mesh is imbedded. looking at the paint surfaces, none appear to have been stripped for repa...

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by zeke
Sat Dec 11, 2021 4:43 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Updated: Airbus goes legal as Qatar Airways jet row escalates
Replies: 1232
Views: 206814

Re: Updated: Airbus goes legal as Qatar Airways jet row escalates

This came to light when QR were stripping an A350 to be painted into a special scheme, as I recall? Airbus repainted that aircraft in TLS and things have spiralled from there? As far as I am aware the aircraft went to TLS and remains unpainted, the offer was made to paint it. Do you know something ...

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by zeke
Sat Dec 11, 2021 7:28 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Updated: Airbus goes legal as Qatar Airways jet row escalates
Replies: 1232
Views: 206814

Re: Updated: Airbus goes legal as Qatar Airways jet row escalates

Zeke, it's fairly obvious that the mesh is not contained sufficiently in a prepreg layer. it was laid on top and the adhesive is not penetrating the meshto provide an attachment for the materials outside the mesh. I think you need to read my post again, the photos I saw do not show any exposed prep...

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by zeke
Fri Dec 10, 2021 10:07 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Updated: Airbus goes legal as Qatar Airways jet row escalates
Replies: 1232
Views: 206814

Re: Updated: Airbus goes legal as Qatar Airways jet row escalates

Looking at the photos, there are a couple things I noticed. The mesh is apparently baked onto the surface, but there is no material penetration through the mesh. either the mesh screen size is too small or there is a material rejection that prevents penetration and extrusion to the paint side . the...

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by zeke
Fri Dec 10, 2021 11:59 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Updated: Airbus goes legal as Qatar Airways jet row escalates
Replies: 1232
Views: 206814

Re: Qatar Airways has grounded 13 A350’s at the request of the Qatar Aviation regulator

Without wanting to be disparaging I wonder at the legitimacy of the Qatar regulator…… how robust and qualified is it to require or direct the grounding of these airframes and citing it is a very serious safety issue. Everyone needs to be careful here. The Qatar regulator issued the certificate of a...

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by zeke
Fri Dec 10, 2021 9:40 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Updated: Airbus goes legal as Qatar Airways jet row escalates
Replies: 1232
Views: 206814

Re: Qatar Airways has grounded 13 A350’s at the request of the Qatar Aviation regulator

Do we know which aircraft are affected by the Airbus manufacturing defects and must be inspected? Those aircraft are in service. Who owns them? W!e do know, from EASA PAD No.: 21-176 "Groups: Group 1 aeroplanes are MSN 0124 and 0211. Group 2 aeroplanes are MSN 0224, 0237, 0251, 0385, 0407 and ...

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