Search found 10016 matches

by WIederling
Sat Mar 13, 2021 4:19 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: A350F. Airbus looking to launch: Looking for customers
Replies: 723
Views: 98659

Re: A350F. Airbus looking to launch: Looking for customers

william wrote:
Maybe Airbus is in talks with UPS? UPS has stated about the need to find a replacement for the MD11. The A350 wingbox would have to beefed up for more domestic cycles,


A350 is full carbon wing, wingbox and fuselage. should be significantly less susceptible to cycling fatique.

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by WIederling
Sat Mar 13, 2021 4:11 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: A350F. Airbus looking to launch: Looking for customers
Replies: 723
Views: 98659

Re: A350F. Airbus looking to launch: Looking for customers

VSMUT wrote:
Polot wrote:
fcogafa wrote:
Interesting that they are trying to bolster the A350 business in preference to an A330NEO freighter

Well Airbus spent billions more on the A350 program and needs to recuperate it.


Not that I disagree, but Airbus broke even on the A350 program in 2019.


Production break even. not on the project.

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by WIederling
Sat Mar 13, 2021 3:39 pm
Forum: Non-Aviation
Topic: COVID-19 Vaccine News and Discussion Thread
Replies: 2093
Views: 137514

Re: Updated: A COVID-19 vaccine candidate works!

art wrote:
No clotting problems in Spain reported from the suspect AZ vaccine batch.


Wine, garlic and virgin olive oil :-)

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by WIederling
Sat Mar 13, 2021 2:43 pm
Forum: Non-Aviation
Topic: 10 Years Since Fukushima Earthquake and Nuclear Disaster
Replies: 78
Views: 3894

Re: 10 Years Since Fukushima Earthquake and Nuclear Disaster

I am very serious. 18, 500 people died from that earthquake and the following Tsunami. Yet people are talking as if there was some kind of nuclear disaster. Disaster? A Nuclear powerplant was overrun by an earthquake and a tsunami, causing a meltdown that led to the permanent closure of that plant....

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by WIederling
Sat Mar 13, 2021 1:07 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: EK Chairman says Boeing “not getting it” on 737MAX, 787
Replies: 125
Views: 20849

Re: EK Chairman says Boeing “not getting it” on 737MAX, 787

I don’t think the 767-400 has it. It doesn't. and the tanker MCAS seems to (A) work off a synthetic "sanitized" AoA value (B) is designed to only cope with slow to medium fast attitude changes. CoG shifting from fuel transfer. not instantaneous. timeframe: some minutes! while on the MAX t...

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by WIederling
Sat Mar 13, 2021 12:59 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: EK Chairman says Boeing “not getting it” on 737MAX, 787
Replies: 125
Views: 20849

Re: EK Chairman says Boeing “not getting it” on 737MAX, 787

I'm with you, but given how pensions are funded in the US, it's a lot more than the 0.1% who are relying on corporations to keep generating "shareholder value". In a way it is some kind of "auto cannibalism" then. But are the pension funds the major gamers or someone else? How m...

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by WIederling
Sat Mar 13, 2021 11:43 am
Forum: Non-Aviation
Topic: Satellite Tracking
Replies: 7
Views: 889

Re: Satellite Tracking

Heavens Above is a good app for that. And I think Star Walk has satellites too in the premium version. Heavens Above is an orbital tracking web site to begin with. https://www.heavens-above.com/ App is secondary. Heavens Above was the site I was directed to but I did not see anything in a retrograd...

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by WIederling
Fri Mar 12, 2021 9:11 pm
Forum: Non-Aviation
Topic: Satellite Tracking
Replies: 7
Views: 889

Re: Satellite Tracking

https://www.heavens-above.com/

App is secondary.
-->

TWA772LR wrote:
Heavens Above is a good app for that. And I think Star Walk has satellites too in the premium version.


Heavens Above is an orbital tracking web site to begin with.
https://www.heavens-above.com/

App is secondary.

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by WIederling
Fri Mar 12, 2021 8:33 am
Forum: Technical/Operations
Topic: Comparing Boeing 787 and Airbus A350 wing design
Replies: 19
Views: 3034

Re: Few questions about the A310 (and A300)

what I could find: MC-21 is Al/Li metal fuselage Sukhoi_Superjet seems to be Al C919 is Al/Li Mitusbishi SpaceJet is Al/Li Interesting. It supports the theory that CFRP doesn't scale down very well. Regular run of things new: unknown, new, upcoming, viewed as next best thing to slices bread and wil...

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by WIederling
Thu Mar 11, 2021 5:52 pm
Forum: Military Aviation & Space Flight
Topic: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments - 2021
Replies: 355
Views: 39504

Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments - 2021

I had the misfortune to be in companies where the worst insult they had was "Scarier than an engineer with a screwdriver". good hands on experience is a boon. But do not underestimate theoretical/analytical understanding. I am a natural with tools. But without the theoretical/analytical b...

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by WIederling
Thu Mar 11, 2021 3:09 pm
Forum: Technical/Operations
Topic: MD-11 vs 77W wing loading
Replies: 4
Views: 1762

Re: MD-11 vs 77W wing loading

Wing loading does not necessarily hurt efficiency. The only measure that directly influences induced drag is the aspect ratio, which is given as 7.91 for the MD-11, 8.67 on the 777-300 and 9.61 on the 777-300ER. (different calculation methods for wing area may yield different aspect ratio values). ...

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by WIederling
Tue Mar 09, 2021 6:50 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Batik Air A320 lands with nosegear turned 90 degrees
Replies: 52
Views: 9564

Re: Batik Air A320 lands with nosegear turned 90 degrees

http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l202/ ... ffbf26.jpg
-->

PANAMsterdam wrote:


Look at that scary picture!

Others spend lots of money for that effect:
Image
borrowed from :
http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l202/ ... ffbf26.jpg

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by WIederling
Tue Mar 09, 2021 8:52 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Olivier Dassault killed in helicopter crash
Replies: 33
Views: 5642

Re: Olivier Dassault Helicopter Crash

Also, needs verification, but only Vichai Srivaddhanaprabha's was due to a mechanic failure on the helicopter. Kobe's was his insistence in fly on seemingly adverse conditions (low ceiling in the area of crash). Dassault's was apparently the decision to use a landing pad that was on a compromised p...

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by WIederling
Tue Mar 09, 2021 8:44 am
Forum: Non-Aviation
Topic: Hong Kong government to change the election law requiring loyalty
Replies: 38
Views: 3049

Re: Hong Kong government to change the election law requiring loyalty

In other news: Germany's encyclopedia "Brockhaus" in its 1937 edition had the problem how to define "democracy". It gave the proper definition and added something like "Germany is also a democracy as the will of the people is represented by our leader Adolf Hitler." Th...

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by WIederling
Tue Mar 09, 2021 7:52 am
Forum: Technical/Operations
Topic: Comparing Boeing 787 and Airbus A350 wing design
Replies: 19
Views: 3034

Re: Comparing Boeing 787 and Airbus A350 wing design

flipdewaf wrote:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/2e7v2qsid4o19dn/Wing%20bending.xlsx?dl=0

Maybe this is better.


Great!

I can access it. thanks ( and a good morning! )

That'll take a bit for me to wrap my mind around it.
I am more of an equations guy than a spread sheeter.

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by WIederling
Mon Mar 08, 2021 11:47 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: 737 Max - What Airlines Really Pay
Replies: 84
Views: 12355

Re: 737 Max - What Airlines Really Pay

When I read "financiers who have massive ability to analyze risk" I had to think of credit default swaps. What these bankers really have is a massive ability to get the central banks to bail them out from their gambling losses. Which I believe is the main function of a central bank. What ...

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by WIederling
Mon Mar 08, 2021 11:40 am
Forum: Non-Aviation
Topic: Texas Gov. Abbott's new bill prohibits social media companies from censoring viewpoints
Replies: 148
Views: 5772

Re: Texas Gov. Abbott's new bill prohibits social media companies from censoring viewpoints

You don't think FaceBook, Twitter(Microblogging) and Google(Search) are monopolies because there are tiny namesake competitors. networking participants vs services. search engines are services. you can change search engines. makes sense anyway to use more than one. ( The differences are sometimes i...

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by WIederling
Mon Mar 08, 2021 11:36 am
Forum: Technical/Operations
Topic: Comparing Boeing 787 and Airbus A350 wing design
Replies: 19
Views: 3034

Re: Few questions about the A310 (and A300)

Static height brings stiffness with the 4th exponent? For a simple cantilever beam of rectangular cross section acted upon by a point load at the free end, the deflection is given by PL^3 / 3EI; with P being the magnitude of the point load, L the length of the cantilever, E the Modulus of elasticit...

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by WIederling
Mon Mar 08, 2021 8:14 am
Forum: Non-Aviation
Topic: Texas Gov. Abbott's new bill prohibits social media companies from censoring viewpoints
Replies: 148
Views: 5772

Re: Texas Gov. Abbott's new bill prohibits social media companies from censoring viewpoints

You don't think FaceBook, Twitter(Microblogging) and Google(Search) are monopolies because there are tiny namesake competitors. networking participants vs services. search engines are services. you can change search engines. makes sense anyway to use more than one. ( The differences are sometimes i...

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by WIederling
Sun Mar 07, 2021 6:03 pm
Forum: Non-Aviation
Topic: Texas Gov. Abbott's new bill prohibits social media companies from censoring viewpoints
Replies: 148
Views: 5772

Re: Texas Gov. Abbott's new bill prohibits social media companies from censoring viewpoints

Isn’t this just classic capitalism at work? The best rises to the top. Don’t like it? Nothing stopping you from starting your own “Facebook” or “Twitter”. Depends on what the metric of "best" is. Best for "profits"? Sure! But as a society you want best for the community. Markets...

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by WIederling
Sun Mar 07, 2021 5:47 pm
Forum: Technical/Operations
Topic: Comparing Boeing 787 and Airbus A350 wing design
Replies: 19
Views: 3034

Re: Comparing Boeing 787 and Airbus A350 wing design

SQ22 wrote:
I have moved the ongoing discission in a separate thread. Feel free to continue your discussion here..


Thanks for the constructive moderation.

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by WIederling
Sun Mar 07, 2021 5:23 pm
Forum: Non-Aviation
Topic: COVID-19 Vaccine News and Discussion Thread
Replies: 2093
Views: 137514

Re: Updated: A COVID-19 vaccine candidate works!

Little to no data coming from Israel on the incidence of vaccinated among COVID-19 deaths, while most 50+ have been vaccinated. So far there is no evidence that vaccines are having the desired effect at the macro scale. How about the ultra othodox : still opposing vaccination? Any differentiated da...

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by WIederling
Sun Mar 07, 2021 12:56 pm
Forum: Technical/Operations
Topic: A321XLR’s rear fuel tank demands special fire-protection conditions
Replies: 218
Views: 40886

Re: A321XLR’s rear fuel tank demands special fire-protection conditions

My gut feeling is Boeing’s comments are more for their own PR than to jab at airbus. They could have commented to EASA at any time but the fact they chose to add a public comment on a EASA document is one way of showing the world “we take safety seriously” Not exactly a surprising strategy in tryin...

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by WIederling
Sat Mar 06, 2021 4:38 pm
Forum: Technical/Operations
Topic: Comparing Boeing 787 and Airbus A350 wing design
Replies: 19
Views: 3034

Re: Few questions about the A310 (and A300)

My guess is that you'll never see a cylindrical barrel section from Boeing again. They had rather public difficulty making the sections fit early on and they seem to have generated a rather expensive to solve problem over most of the manufactured frames till today. How did the Russians and Chinese ...

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by WIederling
Sat Mar 06, 2021 2:09 pm
Forum: Technical/Operations
Topic: The 787 and A350, last of a breed ?
Replies: 24
Views: 5744

Re: The 787 and A350, last of a breed ?

Interesting replies, I guess my question remains though, does anyone think Boeing or Airbus will build a new aircraft model using the 787 or A350 as a template, or indeed a new airframe using mostly composite? Airbus: MY guess is that the next ( from new ) design will be a (narrow body?) with lamin...

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by WIederling
Sat Mar 06, 2021 1:33 pm
Forum: Technical/Operations
Topic: Comparing Boeing 787 and Airbus A350 wing design
Replies: 19
Views: 3034

Re: Few questions about the A310 (and A300)

The 787 is the all plastic plane. A350 is just a panelliner :-) Slightly less than the A350 actually. The 787 is ahead on the fuselage construction (1 barrel vs panels), My guess is that you'll never see a cylindrical barrel section from Boeing again. They had rather public difficulty making the se...

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by WIederling
Sat Mar 06, 2021 10:45 am
Forum: Technical/Operations
Topic: A321XLR’s rear fuel tank demands special fire-protection conditions
Replies: 218
Views: 40886

Re: A321XLR’s rear fuel tank demands special fire-protection conditions

Boeing's intervention seems to be perfectly timed:

Design is done, first metal cut. Best window for disruption.

Nothing learned.
and to not pass this via best friend FAA is a sign of desperation.

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by WIederling
Sat Mar 06, 2021 10:42 am
Forum: Technical/Operations
Topic: Comparing Boeing 787 and Airbus A350 wing design
Replies: 19
Views: 3034

Re: Few questions about the A310 (and A300)

just compare OEW for A359 vs. 7810 ( keep in mind the size of the wingbox and wing. But you can't just draw that conclusion from the OEW alone. The 787-10 has 1.5 meters more fuselage to drag around than the A350-900. That weighs a fair bit in itself. If I'm not mistaken, the A350 also has a greate...

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by WIederling
Wed Mar 03, 2021 6:41 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: 737 Max - What Airlines Really Pay
Replies: 84
Views: 12355

Re: 737 Max - What Airlines Really Pay

I believe development costs are not related to deferred production cost. I'm not sure about the first few frames for testing which are never delivered, but I believe deferred production cost starts with the first delivered plane. Contradicting evidence: If development costs are written down as incu...

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by WIederling
Wed Mar 03, 2021 11:07 am
Forum: Technical/Operations
Topic: Comparing Boeing 787 and Airbus A350 wing design
Replies: 19
Views: 3034

Re: Few questions about the A310 (and A300)

I don't think you are right there. Boeing is generally known for having lighter, but slightly less efficient wings. That is why they are floppy, and floppy is why they are less efficient. Airbus is the opposite. Stiffer and therefore heavier, but slightly more efficient. In the end the two methods ...

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by WIederling
Tue Mar 02, 2021 6:33 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: 737 Max - What Airlines Really Pay
Replies: 84
Views: 12355

Re: 737 Max - What Airlines Really Pay

Borrowing costs alone are at $2.6 billion a year. How many aircraft do you have to sell to cover $2.6 billion? Infinite. .. if you sell them at cost or below. I do wonder what kind of offer has been made to potential defectors and recent signer ups. Will taking up these "gifted" offers be...

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by WIederling
Tue Mar 02, 2021 6:24 pm
Forum: Technical/Operations
Topic: Comparing Boeing 787 and Airbus A350 wing design
Replies: 19
Views: 3034

Re: Few questions about the A310 (and A300)

Airbus went with an unbroken flapline for better low-speed performance on the A330/A340 (and subsequently on the A380 and A350). The downside is the need for a stiffer (and thus heavier) wing to counteract aileron reversal. Clean Wing: they seem to have put quite the effort into that. no thrust gat...

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by WIederling
Tue Mar 02, 2021 6:14 pm
Forum: Non-Aviation
Topic: Iranian Revolution/ Iran-Iraq war/ Iran hostage crises/ Carter
Replies: 15
Views: 1517

Re: Iranian Revolution/ Iran-Iraq war/ Iran hostage crises/ Carter

Thankfully Ronald Reagan did. Except Reagan had no power until January 20. . That doesn't seem to have stopped him ( or the forces/minions backing him ) from A: frustrating Carters talks with Iran. B: clandestinely preparing the ground and starting into the processes that blew up with the Iran Cont...

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by WIederling
Tue Mar 02, 2021 8:14 am
Forum: Technical/Operations
Topic: A321XLR’s rear fuel tank demands special fire-protection conditions
Replies: 218
Views: 40886

Re: A321XLR’s rear fuel tank demands special fire-protection conditions

Polot wrote:
It would be interesting to know what temperature the floor of the cabin could get to. Jet fuel can get quite cold in flight. Are we talking about your feet experiencing a minor chill in flight or spending 7 hrs at near freezing (water, not jet fuel) temps ?


Center fuel is the first to go, isn't it?

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by WIederling
Mon Mar 01, 2021 9:55 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Airbus A321XLR- why now and not at NEO or LR introduction?
Replies: 12
Views: 3433

Re: Airbus A321XLR- why now and not at NEO or LR introduction?

It doesn't feel "incremental" when you change so many things, and as flightglobal reports in a paywalled article ( https://www.flightglobal.com/aerospace/airbus-separates-a321xlr-aft-fuselage-work-to-avoid-disrupting-assembly-line/142264.article ), you're also setting up a separate produc...

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by WIederling
Sun Feb 28, 2021 4:14 pm
Forum: Military Aviation & Space Flight
Topic: SLS / Orion - Tests, Launches, & Developments
Replies: 72
Views: 11095

Re: SLS / Orion - Tests, Launches, & Developments

Then there is the other object lesson of the Shuttle era, not putting all your eggs into one basket, COTS should address that for LEO, beyond that, for all the understandable irritations and anger around SLS, it will still likely launch crews before any Starship, it might be the bridge between rene...

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by WIederling
Sun Feb 28, 2021 4:04 pm
Forum: Non-Aviation
Topic: COVID-19 Vaccine News and Discussion Thread
Replies: 2093
Views: 137514

Re: Updated: A COVID-19 vaccine candidate works!

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-56226979


an emergency approval, risk is with the state not the manufacturer, right?
-->

Francoflier wrote:
FDA approves the single shot J&J vaccine:

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-56226979


an emergency approval, risk is with the state not the manufacturer, right?

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by WIederling
Sun Feb 28, 2021 4:02 pm
Forum: Non-Aviation
Topic: Biden: China’s Uighur genocide is part of ‘different cultural norms’
Replies: 83
Views: 4149

Re: Biden: China’s Uighur genocide is part of ‘different cultural norms’

The subject was Mongolia which PRC didn't won. . unsuprising as Mongolia was a Soviet Union member long before MAO started the long March. i.e. neither Mao nor Tschiang Kai Shek could have won or lost that nation. Since when Mongolia become part of Soviet Union? not member but strongly aligned. sor...

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by WIederling
Sun Feb 28, 2021 3:45 pm
Forum: Technical/Operations
Topic: Why did Airbus switch to winglets so late in the A320
Replies: 53
Views: 7689

Re: Why did Airbus switch to winglets so late in the A320

Richard Whitcomb designed them and Learjet 28 “Longhorn” in 1977 was the first to fly. BAE was later https://www.jstor.org/stable/44699039?seq=1 [email protected] seems to have "reinvented" quite a lot, right? :-) von Hoerner, some others worked ahead of Whitcomb afaik. ( Theoretical understa...

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by WIederling
Sun Feb 28, 2021 1:37 pm
Forum: Non-Aviation
Topic: Biden: China’s Uighur genocide is part of ‘different cultural norms’
Replies: 83
Views: 4149

Re: Biden: China’s Uighur genocide is part of ‘different cultural norms’

c933103 wrote:
Yet with China being classified as a developing country on international climate agrerment, such carbon footprint are not being properly regulated.


Lead by example.

That applies very much to the US too. Overwhelming carbon footprint without much to show for it beyond bling.

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by WIederling
Sun Feb 28, 2021 1:34 pm
Forum: Non-Aviation
Topic: Biden: China’s Uighur genocide is part of ‘different cultural norms’
Replies: 83
Views: 4149

Re: Biden: China’s Uighur genocide is part of ‘different cultural norms’

c933103 wrote:
The subject was Mongolia which PRC didn't won.
.


unsuprising as Mongolia was a Soviet Union member long before MAO started the long March.
i.e. neither Mao nor Tschiang Kai Shek could have won or lost that nation.

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by WIederling
Sun Feb 28, 2021 10:53 am
Forum: Non-Aviation
Topic: Biden: China’s Uighur genocide is part of ‘different cultural norms’
Replies: 83
Views: 4149

Re: Biden: China’s Uighur genocide is part of ‘different cultural norms’

To be fair, most climate action trackers rate the US worse than China, ROK, ROC, Japan etc. in environmental measures. Germany, Canada, UK, and Australia have better credibility on that score. Carbon footprint, like VAT, is an accumulated value attached to products and hitting the final user. A maj...

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by WIederling
Sun Feb 28, 2021 10:47 am
Forum: Non-Aviation
Topic: Biden: China’s Uighur genocide is part of ‘different cultural norms’
Replies: 83
Views: 4149

Re: Biden: China’s Uighur genocide is part of ‘different cultural norms’

- When Republic of China was ruling most of China, it was succeeding the Manchurian Qing Empire, which is from Northeast China and in addition to China Proper, they also control and colonize Tibetan area, Eastern Turkestan, Mongolia, and Manchuria itself. Stuck in the past. Mao's forces won over a ...

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by WIederling
Sun Feb 28, 2021 10:31 am
Forum: Technical/Operations
Topic: Why did Airbus switch to winglets so late in the A320
Replies: 53
Views: 7689

Re: Why did Airbus switch to winglets so late in the A320

Richard Whitcomb designed them and Learjet 28 “Longhorn” in 1977 was the first to fly. BAE was later https://www.jstor.org/stable/44699039?seq=1 [email protected] seems to have "reinvented" quite a lot, right? :-) von Hoerner, some others worked ahead of Whitcomb afaik. ( Theoretical understa...

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by WIederling
Sun Feb 28, 2021 10:22 am
Forum: Military Aviation & Space Flight
Topic: French Rafale Cuts Power Lines
Replies: 12
Views: 2448

Re: French Rafale Cuts Power Lines

Francoflier wrote:
How low exactly does the French Air Force like to fly?
Do their pilots fear hypoxia that much?
:duck:

Not everywhere are the lines tacked to wooden poles, "sweating" from overloading as low hanging fruit. .... :-)

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by WIederling
Sun Feb 28, 2021 10:10 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Boeing CEO's Comments On Their Next Airplane
Replies: 2119
Views: 219587

Re: Boeing CEO's Comments On Their Next Airplane

Remember the 787-8 prototypes and compare them to the current -9 and -10? That was not how a sane airframer would have done it. The 788 lacked premeditation. You don't do prototypes for change testing anymore. What you do is pre-series samples for certification/product proving. All the new features...

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by WIederling
Sun Feb 28, 2021 9:40 am
Forum: Military Aviation & Space Flight
Topic: SLS / Orion - Tests, Launches, & Developments
Replies: 72
Views: 11095

Re: SLS / Orion - Tests, Launches, & Developments

Then there is the other object lesson of the Shuttle era, not putting all your eggs into one basket, COTS should address that for LEO, beyond that, for all the understandable irritations and anger around SLS, it will still likely launch crews before any Starship, it might be the bridge between rene...

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by WIederling
Sun Feb 28, 2021 9:20 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Boeing CEO's Comments On Their Next Airplane
Replies: 2119
Views: 219587

Re: Boeing CEO's Comments On Their Next Airplane

Why has Boeing missed the entire market segment that the A321neo has grown into? They did not miss the market, they just did not have a compelling alternative with the 737-900ER / 737-9. The 737-10 is a compelling alternative to a point (around 2500nm or so) and was seeing good sales up until the g...

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by WIederling
Sat Feb 27, 2021 6:28 pm
Forum: Technical/Operations
Topic: Why did Airbus switch to winglets so late in the A320
Replies: 53
Views: 7689

Re: Why did Airbus switch to winglets so late in the A320

The things at the tips of A320-200 wings *are* winglets. They prevent tip-swirl when cruising and create vortices as wing lift coefficient increases. They were designed by BAe who from the start called them "winglets", way back in 1985 when they were being designed for the A300 / 310. &qu...

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by WIederling
Fri Feb 26, 2021 6:06 pm
Forum: Technical/Operations
Topic: Modern Turbofan Engine Efficiency
Replies: 33
Views: 7739

Re: Modern Turbofan Engine Efficiency

I know that the efficiency will vary by the thrust setting. I assume engines are designed to be most efficient at cruise thrust. In terms of the percentage of the energy in the fuel that is output as usable thrust, what is the efficiency of the current generation of turbofan engines? most efficient...

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