Search found 17139 matches

by zeke
Fri Feb 04, 2022 8:34 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Discussion on Potential 777XF Specs
Replies: 489
Views: 54403

Re: Discussion on Potential 777XF Specs

If Boeing upped the MTOW, a 777-9ER with another 12t of payload or 1000nm range? I don’t know if they will bring the same 777-8F weights across to the passenger aircraft, one of the ways they can increase weights on freighters is to reduce the passenger version LOV down, and trade service life for ...

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by zeke
Fri Feb 04, 2022 11:56 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Discussion on Potential 777XF Specs
Replies: 489
Views: 54403

Re: Discussion on Potential 777XF Specs

And that space probably already has one or two of the 30 pallets intruding in it. Freighters don’t stop loading pallets at “door 4” (in quotes because the A350F won’t have a door 4). The taper of the A350F starting around door 4 may be that the last two pallets are actually single file and not abre...

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by zeke
Fri Feb 04, 2022 11:09 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Qantaslink Dash 8 replacement?
Replies: 30
Views: 6592

Re: Qantaslink Dash 8 replacement?

SYD330 wrote:
Still no replacement in sight for the Dash 8's, I bet ATR-72 is on the list


Maybe they will subcontract it out.

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by zeke
Fri Feb 04, 2022 10:52 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Discussion on Potential 777XF Specs
Replies: 489
Views: 54403

Re: Discussion on Potential 777XF Specs

Thank you Fred for the effort you have put in.

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by zeke
Fri Feb 04, 2022 10:40 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Discussion on Potential 777XF Specs
Replies: 489
Views: 54403

Re: Discussion on Potential 777XF Specs

Why the 777 has one more pallet is likely due to its width. At the very rear it can squeeze in one more pallet at 1 abreast. At that point just ahead of the aft pressure bulkhead the narrower A350 has likely tapered too much to fit a pallet. In your spare time have a look at a photo of a rear galle...

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by zeke
Fri Feb 04, 2022 3:32 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Discussion on Potential 777XF Specs
Replies: 489
Views: 54403

Re: Discussion on Potential 777XF Specs

amdiesen wrote:

/* noted: I have been posting the thesis that purchase price is over emphasied and should be viewed within context of asset life, variable TCO, and revenue generation over time


That is reasonable we use a NPV approach

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by zeke
Fri Feb 04, 2022 2:35 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Discussion on Potential 777XF Specs
Replies: 489
Views: 54403

Re: Discussion on Potential 777XF Specs

That doesn’t explain the A359s. French Bee’s for example, has 411 seats, with 326 (out of maximum 330) between D2-D4. 5 rows in back are 9 Y. And looking at the diagram posted in section 2.5 of the link it sure does look like the fuselage is tapering before D4 and after D1 up front. Looking at ACAP...

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by zeke
Thu Feb 03, 2022 11:26 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Discussion on Potential 777XF Specs
Replies: 489
Views: 54403

Re: Discussion on Potential 777XF Specs

You are now assuming a difference in 35t or 40t in OEW between the A350 and the 777XF. That's more than I have seen anyone suggesting before. If you put into Fred’s calculator spreadsheet, with the payload, range, and MTOW that we know about, the OEWs that arrive at the MTOWs is around 132 tonnes f...

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by zeke
Thu Feb 03, 2022 11:20 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Discussion on Potential 777XF Specs
Replies: 489
Views: 54403

Re: Discussion on Potential 777XF Specs

I don’t know if that is necessarily true though. Again I point out 10Y A350 operators, who have 9Y at the last couple of rows. There is no reason to do that if the cross section is staying constant. French Bee have 480 seats installed (https://www.frenchbee.com/sites/default/files/2022-01/plan_cabi...

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by zeke
Thu Feb 03, 2022 10:25 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Discussion on Potential 777XF Specs
Replies: 489
Views: 54403

Re: Discussion on Potential 777XF Specs

https://www.nordisk-aviation.com/en/md-containers/amx/
-->

Pelly wrote:
Even the larger AMX/AML/AMJ would have less volume. The LD3 would add ~6m3. So 653+6m=659m3 as the 777F baseline.


The Nordisk AMX container has a volume of 21.11 cu.m compared to the Boeing 19.5 cu.m for the pallet.

https://www.nordisk-aviation.com/en/md-containers/amx/

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by zeke
Thu Feb 03, 2022 10:14 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Discussion on Potential 777XF Specs
Replies: 489
Views: 54403

Re: Discussion on Potential 777XF Specs

Even the larger AMX/AML/AMJ would have less volume. The LD3 would add ~6m3. So 653+6m=659m3 as the 777F baseline. I should stick to my read-only pledge. All this minutiae is getting tedious, but I couldn't pass up the opportunity to learn from Zeke. 2.6.2 in the 777F ACAPS shows going from 96x125 p...

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by zeke
Thu Feb 03, 2022 9:33 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Discussion on Potential 777XF Specs
Replies: 489
Views: 54403

Re: Discussion on Potential 777XF Specs

I know I said read-only, but i am curious about this. When I shared the Boeing numbers earlier you said you were not interested in water volume, now the same figures are understated. What layout would FedEx use? FedEx would use AADs on the main deck and LD3s under the floor. https://www.fedex.com/c...

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by zeke
Thu Feb 03, 2022 9:21 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Discussion on Potential 777XF Specs
Replies: 489
Views: 54403

Re: Discussion on Potential 777XF Specs

You never responded to the thought that all of the 350F containers may not be the same size given the taper in the Airframe per the diagrams in the ACAP's. What do you make of that? They consider the cross section constant on the A350 from door 1 o door 4, if there is cargo loaded ahead or behind t...

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by zeke
Thu Feb 03, 2022 9:07 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Discussion on Potential 777XF Specs
Replies: 489
Views: 54403

Re: Discussion on Potential 777XF Specs

Pelly wrote:
Good catch. Thank you for bringing it to my attention, I will have to find an email for the Boeing webmaster for them to correct this wrong figure of 653m3.


That is only a sample layout, FedEx for example that is volume critical would not use that layout.

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by zeke
Thu Feb 03, 2022 9:04 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Discussion on Potential 777XF Specs
Replies: 489
Views: 54403

Re: Discussion on Potential 777XF Specs

Pelly wrote:
Zeke in your linked document, page 32 Boeing also says 396 t MTOW for the PW as option 2. It doesn't matter, I concede you are right Zeke. Will switch to read only on this thread and leave it to the experts.


Correct, at the top is says a different engine, not the SQ P&W 4056.

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by zeke
Thu Feb 03, 2022 8:55 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Discussion on Potential 777XF Specs
Replies: 489
Views: 54403

Re: Discussion on Potential 777XF Specs

It says 71m3 more than the 777F, the 777F is 653m3 (652.7m3) to be precise according to Boeing's website. Do you have your own calculation for the 777F? That way I can also ignore Boeing's figures for the 777F and also go with your calculations. The 777F can carry more the 653 cu.m, that is also on...

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by zeke
Thu Feb 03, 2022 8:49 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Discussion on Potential 777XF Specs
Replies: 489
Views: 54403

Re: Discussion on Potential 777XF Specs

I will ignore the Airbus PDF of 653+71=724m3 The Airbus PDF does not say that, the 653 figure is not listed at all. ignore the SQ press release figure of 728m3. The same press release says the 744F with P&W 4056 engines has MTOW of 395 tonnes Boeing says 362 or 367 tonnes Maximum payload of 116...

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by zeke
Thu Feb 03, 2022 8:19 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Discussion on Potential 777XF Specs
Replies: 489
Views: 54403

Re: Discussion on Potential 777XF Specs

It is just not logical that the smaller cross section of the A350 upper lobe will have larger pallet contours vs the 777F. The cross section is not the issue, the issue is how efficiently the volume that is available is being used. The 777 does have a wider fuselage of 6.2 m, however it makes less ...

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by zeke
Thu Feb 03, 2022 4:32 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Discussion on Potential 777XF Specs
Replies: 489
Views: 54403

Re: Discussion on Potential 777XF Specs

Pelly wrote:
Zeke where do you get 20.28m3 per ULD positions for the A350 upper lobe?


Could you please do me the courtesy of reading my previous posts, I have clearly explained this, it is based upon the document you linked to an earlier post.

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by zeke
Thu Feb 03, 2022 12:10 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Discussion on Potential 777XF Specs
Replies: 489
Views: 54403

Re: Discussion on Potential 777XF Specs

In the same Airbus link many people have been using (https://www.airbus.com/sites/g/files/jlcbta136/files/2022-01/Airbus-A350F-Facts-and-Figures-January-2022.pdf) Airbus specifically says the A350F has the same volume as the 744F. If it was 40m3 higher (that’s basically 2 main deck pallets, based o...

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by zeke
Wed Feb 02, 2022 11:33 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Discussion on Potential 777XF Specs
Replies: 489
Views: 54403

Re: Discussion on Potential 777XF Specs

I’ve just figured it out, and please accept my apologies. The numbers I presented was based on the 777F, not the 778F. So it is, after all, around 691 cbm vs 764 cbm. Which makes a hell of a lot more sense! This is the best I can work out at the moment 744F 23x21.2=487.6 5x17.4=87 2x15.3=30.6 9x11=...

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by zeke
Wed Feb 02, 2022 10:30 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Discussion on Potential 777XF Specs
Replies: 489
Views: 54403

Re: Discussion on Potential 777XF Specs

Do you have a link to verify that? Per forum rules if you post a statement that has a definitive fact you must have a supporting link. Otherwise it is opinion. Thanks. Another member had generously provided a link earlier on this thread where you can model different scenarios for the A350F and 777-...

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by zeke
Wed Feb 02, 2022 8:52 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Discussion on Potential 777XF Specs
Replies: 489
Views: 54403

Re: Discussion on Potential 777XF Specs

The cargo area is 10% larger by area for the 778F and yet you are claiming there is no difference in actual volume of cargo that can be carried? Is that what you are claiming? If you look at this link as introduced by another member earlier in the thread https://www.airbus.com/sites/g/files/jlcbta1...

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by zeke
Wed Feb 02, 2022 8:45 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Discussion on Potential 777XF Specs
Replies: 489
Views: 54403

Re: Discussion on Potential 777XF Specs

Someone else speculated on what a higher MTOW might mean for the passenger 777-9. I am wondering the same thing. Probably nothing, take the 77F for example when they increase the weights they reduced the design life of the aircraft, the passenger version has a LOV of 60,000 cycles and the freighter...

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-->

MoKa777 wrote:
Airbus published the MTOW for the A350F as 319 tonnes on their website. MLW is 250 tonnes.

https://aircraft.airbus.com/en/aircraft ... -freighter


That’s new it was 317

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by zeke
Tue Feb 01, 2022 5:02 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Discussion on Potential 777XF Specs
Replies: 489
Views: 54403

Re: Discussion on Potential 777XF Specs

DenverTed wrote:
What are the OEW on both? A350 maybe 140t and 777 maybe 165t?
A350 mtow 319 - payload 109 = 210 - 140 = 70t fuel for 109t at 4700nm
B777 mtow 352 - payload 118 = 234 - 165 = 69t fuel for 118t at 4400nm


The OEW numbers work out around 128 for the A350F (MTOW 317), 158 tonnes for the 777-8F

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by zeke
Tue Feb 01, 2022 4:49 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Discussion on Potential 777XF Specs
Replies: 489
Views: 54403

Re: Discussion on Potential 777XF Specs

You can’t divide 71 by 3.5 and say that is the pallet volume on the main deck. The A350 has 5 additional pallets over the 777F: 3 on the main deck and 2 on the lower deck. I doubt when doing the comparison Airbus suddenly forget the lower decks exist. That 71 m3 is the volume of those 5 pallets. Th...

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by zeke
Tue Feb 01, 2022 4:41 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Discussion on Potential 777XF Specs
Replies: 489
Views: 54403

Re: Discussion on Potential 777XF Specs

Your premise is correct but the mechanism is wrong. The obvious answer is the 777 is comparatively heavier to the A350 because it has a metallic fuselage. No.matter how good you are you can not make a metal frame lighter than a well designed composite frame. There would be a good chance your metal ...

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by zeke
Tue Feb 01, 2022 4:37 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Discussion on Potential 777XF Specs
Replies: 489
Views: 54403

Re: Discussion on Potential 777XF Specs

I’m not sure about Airbus’s calculations but the ~652m3 from Boeing for the 777F is volume of pallets, not the water volume. Since Airbus says in Pelly’s link “71 m3 ~3.5 pallets” I assume they are not talking about water volume either. Since the A350F hold +3 main deck pallets and +2 lower deck pa...

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by zeke
Tue Feb 01, 2022 7:58 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Discussion on Potential 777XF Specs
Replies: 489
Views: 54403

Re: Discussion on Potential 777XF Specs

Zeke, I was going by Airbus' own numbers https://www.airbus.com/sites/g/files/jlcbta136/files/2022-01/Airbus-A350F-Facts-and-Figures-January-2022.pdf which states 71m3 more than the 777F. In your calculation you are assuming that the A350 will have all 30 main deck pallets with the same contour and...

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by zeke
Tue Feb 01, 2022 12:23 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Discussion on Potential 777XF Specs
Replies: 489
Views: 54403

Re: Discussion on Potential 777XF Specs

What's the difference between revenue payload and structural payload? All the weight of the pallets and containers and hooks to hold them down? If those weigh 5.7t on the 777-8F, I assume they weigh close to that on the 777-F and A350F. 109t - 5.5t = 103.5t revenue payload for the A350F? Yes, corre...

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by zeke
Mon Jan 31, 2022 10:59 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Discussion on Potential 777XF Specs
Replies: 489
Views: 54403

Re: Discussion on Potential 777XF Specs

Wait, I'm kind of confused. The Boeing presentation said that the 777-8 and 744F both have identical payload in tons. However, i looked at the website but it says 112.3 tons for the 777-8. https://www.boeing.com/commercial/freighters/index.page Is it a typo or is it the actual spec? Because it is s...

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by zeke
Mon Jan 31, 2022 9:56 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Discussion on Potential 777XF Specs
Replies: 489
Views: 54403

Re: Discussion on Potential 777XF Specs

Since the A350 is not as wide as a 777 (by at least a foot) will the "10 ft "pallets be contoured more on the A350 losing a little volume vs a 777 pallet? They fit two side by side, the A350 is not circular, it is taller than wider, the walls are flatter. I think the A350 main deck door i...

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by zeke
Mon Jan 31, 2022 9:28 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Discussion on Potential 777XF Specs
Replies: 489
Views: 54403

Re: Discussion on Potential 777XF Specs

On Boeing's website 777F volume is 652.7 m3, 777-8F volume is 766.1m3. Airbus' linked document has the A350F volume at 71m3 more than the 777F which would make it ~723.7m3. That would make the difference about 5.8% between the A350F and 777-8F in terms of volume. I get less than 3% difference https...

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by zeke
Mon Jan 31, 2022 9:09 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Discussion on Potential 777XF Specs
Replies: 489
Views: 54403

Re: Discussion on Potential 777XF Specs

Details of forward crew rest here: https://www.google.com/search?q=floor+plan+777+crew+rest+area&tbm=isch&client=ms-android-tmus-us-revc&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwi3wsCV79z1AhWXAzQIHZn1DvIQrNwCKAB6BQgBENoB&biw=384&bih=678#imgrc=upbRsdgjNAGGBM bt That’s the passenger aircraft...

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by zeke
Mon Jan 31, 2022 8:37 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Discussion on Potential 777XF Specs
Replies: 489
Views: 54403

Re: Discussion on Potential 777XF Specs

ikolkyo wrote:
Crew rest is probably set up similar to the 777F, with a galley, seats and beds right behind the cockpit.


Do you have any further details on that, only familiar with the crown rest on the 77W which is further back

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by zeke
Mon Jan 31, 2022 8:18 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Discussion on Potential 777XF Specs
Replies: 489
Views: 54403

Re: Discussion on Potential 777XF Specs

The 777-8F is 232'6" according to Boeing's website, so it's stretched compared to the original 777-8 length. The 777-8F should carry carry 31 main deck pallets and 13 in the lower hold. The A350F should carry 30 main deck pallets and 12 in the lower hold. Airbus' website shows the A350F as hav...

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by zeke
Mon Jan 31, 2022 8:00 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Discussion on Potential 777XF Specs
Replies: 489
Views: 54403

Re: Discussion on Potential 777XF Specs

They need a new type because the 777F doesn't meet the ICAO requirements and can't be produced after 2027. The ICAO requirement related to the engine, not the airframe. So the A35F can fly 4700nm with a max payload of 109t and the 777XF can fly 4000nm with a max payload of 118t? How far will then t...

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by zeke
Mon Jan 31, 2022 10:35 am
Forum: Technical/Operations
Topic: Uncommanded thrust reversal deployment
Replies: 39
Views: 3274

Re: Uncommanded thrust reversal deployment

Suppose that a jetliner experiences uncommanded thrust reverser deployment in one of its two engines just after V1. The length of the runway is say about 2500 m (8000 ft) vs about say 5500 ft (1700 m) balanced field length for the type. Given the inevitable delay due to the time needed for the asse...

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by zeke
Mon Jan 31, 2022 10:15 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Why didn't Qantas order some 777 freighters?
Replies: 5
Views: 1207

Re: Why didn't Qantas order some 777 freighters?

Looking back at an old article from Australian Aviation from 2011: australianaviation.com.au/2011/04/qantas-freight-considering-747-8f-777f/, I always highly doubted why they didn't they purchase some 777 freighters instead of relying on the sole 767 & outsourcing 747 operations. Now that they ...

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by zeke
Mon Jan 31, 2022 8:03 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Discussion on Potential 777XF Specs
Replies: 489
Views: 54403

Re: Discussion on Potential 777XF Specs

You do not know the cost to build either the 777XF or the A350F. Nor do you know at what price either OEM will offer to airlines. So your constant point regarding list price is literally meaningless. No one pays list price. You know this, yet keep repeating it over and over. Why? If you know at wha...

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by zeke
Mon Jan 31, 2022 7:32 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Discussion on Potential 777XF Specs
Replies: 489
Views: 54403

Re: Discussion on Potential 777XF Specs

If Boeing is launching today, has it had time to tweak its design in response to the A350F specs? I doubt it, but it may not think it needs to. The rational behind this thread was to try and work out where the 77XF would sit in their product lineup. That being said we know the 744 and 748 productio...

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by zeke
Mon Jan 31, 2022 7:15 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Discussion on Potential 777XF Specs
Replies: 489
Views: 54403

Re: Discussion on Potential 777XF Specs

ElroyJetson wrote:
So the 777XF will be an overweight, overpriced, dud. :


I haven’t used any of those words or descriptions

All we do know is the
77X is heavier than the A350
77X costs more than the A350

If you disagree, please show me your numbers.

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by zeke
Mon Jan 31, 2022 5:14 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Boeing Hints at Next New Jet as It Weighs Tough Engine Decisions
Replies: 115
Views: 19434

Re: Boeing Hints at Next New Jet as It Weighs Tough Engine Decisions

B737's replacement is the only way they would actually makes money. Any other projects could possibly caused them to go bankrupt. Think about it, VLA market is drying up, B787's next move would be new generation engines. The only thing they got to make for now is B737 replacement. Who would buy a 7...

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by zeke
Mon Jan 31, 2022 4:55 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Discussion on Potential 777XF Specs
Replies: 489
Views: 54403

Re: Discussion on Potential 777XF Specs

I guess they all must be wrong? Those quotes do not address the points I raised. Besides in the freight market it is rare to have full loads all the time, eg it is very common to fly full volume from Asia to the US, and come back near empty. Comparisons made at a maximum weight or maximum volume ar...

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by zeke
Mon Jan 31, 2022 12:59 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Discussion on Potential 777XF Specs
Replies: 489
Views: 54403

Re: Discussion on Potential 777XF Specs

Quite simply - it could possibly beat it on fuel consumption on long sectors with that big wing - who knows on acquisition cost I do not think the 77X will beat the A350 on block (ie trip fuel per sector), the metrics all rely on higher number or passengers/cargo mass/cargo volume on the 77X. The e...

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by zeke
Sun Jan 30, 2022 10:52 pm
Forum: Technical/Operations
Topic: Avionics Bay Access and Pressurization
Replies: 63
Views: 5383

Re: Avionics Bay Access and Pressurization

I have to wonder why large avionics bays haven't gone by the wayside on newer A/C's. No doubt a modern smart phone has more than enough compute power for every system on the aircraft. Not that I'd be advocating for a central controller or anything. I have heard that a lot of the technology is delib...

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by zeke
Sun Jan 30, 2022 9:10 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Cathay Pacific News and Discussion Thread - 2022
Replies: 87
Views: 13027

Re: Cathay Pacific News and Discussion Thread - 2022

I have a ticket for my first trip back to Australia in 3 years for this coming July on CX and I have to say, part of me isn't feeling at all confident that it's going to take off at all...and not because of pandemic-induced reasons. Flights out should be ok, it’s the flights in and the stays of eve...

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by zeke
Sun Jan 30, 2022 9:05 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Airbus faces investors' lawsuit over bribery scandal
Replies: 13
Views: 3554

Re: Airbus Corruption in the Spotlight - Shareholders Sue Over Massive Corruption Scandal

Or perhaps they paid out the "inflated bills to the manufacturer that exceeded the total value agreed upon in the main contract,” Invariably that happens with almost every military contract as the customer asks for upgrades, spares, training, or capability not in the original contract. I think...

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by zeke
Sat Jan 29, 2022 11:47 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Pilots raise alarm at Qatar Airways for doctored hours, hidden fatigue
Replies: 55
Views: 13399

Re: Qatar Airways back under the spotlight-This time Doctored hours and Fatigued crew

Would just like to share what I wrote in the general QR thread https://www.airliners.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1468563&p=23149473#p23149473 “Qatar as a nation is still growing when it comes providing fair expectations for workers. It is something they freely admit at the highest levels. ...

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